Ruger #1 458

[captainkirk]

I have a Ruger #1 in 458 Winchester that I have tried a few cast loads in with fair to abyssmal results. After reading considerable information about its oversized throat and looking over quite a bit of shooting results from some other posters here (thanks RangerBob) and on other boards, I wonder if rechambering to 458 Lott would be of any benefit. I am definitely not after any more power, just a throat more suited to cast bullets.

Any and all opinions welcome. I am in Houston,TX and would rather work with a local smith if possible, if you guys know of anyone to recommend. (If this is even worth considering...)

[singleshot1]

CaptainKirk,
I also have a Ruger #1 in 458. In order to get any kind of accuracy with it, it required the bullet to be seated out far enough to bridge the throat. I didn't try any light weight bullets. Paper patch bullets work super too. All the weights that I use are over 500 grains. When I started out with it, I tried to seat down to the crimping groove if there was one. No groups, just patterns! :coffee: Dave

[Lloyd Smale]

they hit it on the head you need to seat the bullets out i shot alot of 405 and 500 rcbs rfs in mine and they needed to be seated crimping in the grease groves and you need to experiment to see which grove to seat in to get the bullet as close to the rifling as possible. Leave the top grease groves empty as ive found that to much lube will effect accuarcy too. I dont like posting loads but with the 500s like seated properly and a full case of varget mine would shoot at about 1900 fps and would punch one hole groups at 100 yards. ps make sure you get a good rolled crimp on the bullet too as it allways shot better with a heavy crimp.

[Larry Gibson]

I have a Ruger #1 in 458 Winchester that I have tried a few cast loads in with fair to abyssmal results. After reading considerable information about its oversized throat and looking over quite a bit of shooting results from some other posters here (thanks RangerBob) and on other boards, I wonder if rechambering to 458 Lott would be of any benefit. I am definitely not after any more power, just a throat more suited to cast bullets.

Any and all opinions welcome. I am in Houston,TX and would rather work with a local smith if possible, if you guys know of anyone to recommend. (If this is even worth considering...)

By "large throat" and seating out I assume you mean "long" throat. Comman thought is you "need" to seat cast bullets out to the rifling for accuracy. With numerous rifle cartridges I have not found that to be the case. These include numerous milsurps and in particualr a long throated 45-70 built on a Siamese Mauser. It is my experience that if the bullet fits the diameter of the throat then accuracy will be just as good as if the bullets reach the rifling. This is why it is important to slug the throad and base your sizing on that and not the bore.

In the Siamese Mauser I push 400 and 500 gr bullets to 2000+ fps. The bore is .457", the throat .459". If is size the bullets .457" accuracy is 4-5 MOA at 100 yards. Simply by sizing the bullets .461 or at least not smaller than .459 then accuracy shrinks to 2 MOA. These cast bullets (457483 and the Lee 500 gr FPGC) are seated to and crimped in the regular crimp groove. The leading edge of the driving band is .3+" from the rifling. The Rapine 260250 has even a longer jump but at .461 it fits the throats (swaged down on firing) and is very accurate. Some years ago I developed loads with a friend for his #1 45-7- with long throat. Fitting the bullets to the throats solved his inaccuracy problems also.

I find the very same thing with the long throated 6.5 Swede, 8mm Mauser and several othe long throated rifles. Weatherby's with their long throats can also be made to shoot accurately with cast bullets if the bullets fit the throats.

Larry Gibson

[captainkirk]

Thank you gentlemen. That sounds like good advice. I'll put the money towards some cerrosafe and a mould that will fit.

captainkirk

[charger 1]

I have a Ruger #1 in 458 Winchester that I have tried a few cast loads in with fair to abyssmal results. After reading considerable information about its oversized throat and looking over quite a bit of shooting results from some other posters here (thanks RangerBob) and on other boards, I wonder if rechambering to 458 Lott would be of any benefit. I am definitely not after any more power, just a throat more suited to cast bullets.

Any and all opinions welcome. I am in Houston,TX and would rather work with a local smith if possible, if you guys know of anyone to recommend. (If this is even worth considering...)


I'll tell you my lott has been a kinder animal than my win mag when it comes to cast. I find when you have the non defined chamber end like on a WM ecspecially in a ruger,its darned hard to get things to do the same thing twice at any speed. The first load I threw together in my pea sized mind and stuck in the lott cut thumbnails at 75 yds with 450 grs doin near 2500. This is out of a gun that shoots copper terribly.my 458 wm outshoots some of my comp guns on the right day with copper yet with cast its all over like an epileptic spider,unless I turn it down to a hot 45/70. I didnt buy a 458 to have a 45/70. Have er reamed to lott, which will give you a clean defined throat. Not one that was cut with a garage funnel

[RangerBob]

Since I now have Lloyd's gun, I will concur that Lloyd knows what he's talking about.

The 500gr bullets are very accurate if seated out. I do not have to seat out to the rifling, but far enough to get close to the tight part of the throat.

The bullet diameter needs to be as large as possible because of the tapered throat. .460 is minimum but can work well. .462 or larger may be even better. Once you get to .464, seating bullets is difficult and you can have chambering problems.

The lighter bullets don't seem to do well at .458WM speeds. I have to slow them down to 45-70 speed to get accuracy.

I have only tried PP with light bullets and high velocity (since I don't need PP for low velocity). Results have been poor. I suspect that PP on a 500-550gr bullet would work well if the bullet were seated out a good ways.

I have considered the .458Lott conversion, but have enough functional loads that I'm not sure I need the Lott. I do think the Lott would work better IF it reduces throat diameter and throat length.

BUT I still think that the 1:14 rifling is causing some of my difficulty with lighter bullets. A short, fairly soft 350gr bullet has little bearing length and therefor little strength to hold rifling. If you push that bullet too fast, it will tend to strip. The longer, heavier bullets just hold the rifling better. This is why I tried a 400gr HB. it has a lot of bearing length for the weight . . . but I don't seem to be able to cast consistent bullets with this mold . . . still working on this idea.

[charger 1]

I do think the Lott would work better IF it reduces throat diameter and throat length.


Ruger 77 lott throat>.460"dia,.175"long

[RangerBob]

"I do think the Lott would work better IF it reduces throat diameter and throat length."

"Ruger 77 lott throat>.460"dia,.175"long"

I realize that one of the standard Lott chamber reamers has these specs (not all do, the older ones had larger throats like the .458WM), but I wonder if this reamer could clean the throat out of a standard .458WM chamber.

The .458WM throat is so long that even after reaming to .458Lott you may still end up with more throat than the Lott specs you give. I may be wrong, but I would run the numbers pretty close before buying/renting a reamer.

FWIW

Bob.

[charger 1]

Well you know bullet in the wm case backwards then add .300 for additional case plus .175 of throat. I havent done the measuring but on the accurate reloading forum we had quite a few guys convert olden 458wm whitworths to modern lotts and from what I read they all turned out. Hell even if by some wild chance it didnt totally is it possible to be worse than a wm chamber

[RangerBob]

My Ruger #1 the throat is .75" and tapers from .465 to .459.

The Lott reamer would clean up about 60% of the existing throat, but you wouldn't have the specs of a Lott chambered from the factory.

Still, I agree, it would have to help some.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Maybe the generous throats are to keep pressures down for tropical use. Mick.