Bullet for Nagant 91/30 with .314 Groove Dia

[peterso]

My Nagant has a groove diameter of .314 and I am planning on filre lapping to brighten the bore and make it a little easier to clean. I was looking at the Lee 185 gr 8mm bullet .324 I believe and sizing it down to .315 or .316. Has anyone tried sizing that bullet that much and how about gas checks? Has anyone had good luck with any other bullet? I would appreciate any suggestions or hearing of your experiences.
Thanks,
Owen

[1Shirt]

Thats a lot of squeezin down. My .314 shoots well with the Lee 160 designed for the 7.62x39, and drops out of the mold with my alloy at .315. I use mule snot for this one.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[craig61a]

I'm new to cast boolits, have loaded a few, some with excellent results, some not so good. I always meant to get into it, just took a while. I have some Mosins that have basically sat in the rack for years because they weren't that good for shooting copper bullets. I just had one out (M38) that I haven't shot since I bought it ten years ago. I had some spare time last Sunday, sso I grabbed it and surplus Russian LB. The bore had frost, so I didn't expect tack driving accuracy. After about twenty rounds the groups started to close up, so I figured it might not be that oversize after all. I drifted the front sight a little and talked with the guy in the next bench for several minutes. I loaded five rounds and took a shot. Scored an X. Two more shots were within 1/2" of the first. Took a break and talked with the guy next to me some more. after about fifteen minutes I went back to shooting. Now the bullets were all over the place ( 3 -4" at 50 yds). I finish off the rest of the 20 round package, cleaned it and went home.

I finished cleaning it at home and looked in the barrel. No surprises there. Slightly rounded lands with fine pits on the groove and land surfaces, but they are dispersed and not in large groups. So I figured I'd run a slug down the bore and check the dimensions. Slugged out at .304" x .315". A little depressing, but not hopeless. The rifle is a refurb, but is in very good external condition. I have a 91/30 with a .315" groove so figured I might start looking into a mold for these. I do have a .312" 185 Lee, but as of yet I haven't cast any of my own, just used cast from outside sources. I did see some brass molds from a manufacturer in Australia that went .316" and .317" - I may try those.

As for fire lapping, I don't know if I'll try it on this rifle. The 91/30 has absolutely no pitting in it - it's just big. I'm a little leary of going any bigger with the M38, since I may run into issues with the case neck and chambering. Once I get ahold of a .316 - .317 boolit, I'll see how well it shoots. I might run 20 - 30 lapping boolits through it if it doesn't shoot all that well with larger bullets.

[JeffinNZ]

Peter, measure the throat and see the diameter of that first. You might find you can chamber a .318 bullet yet.

[damron g]

My Nagant has a groove diameter of .314 and I am planning on filre lapping to brighten the bore and make it a little easier to clean. I was looking at the Lee 185 gr 8mm bullet .324 I believe and sizing it down to .315 or .316. Has anyone tried sizing that bullet that much and how about gas checks? Has anyone had good luck with any other bullet? I would appreciate any suggestions or hearing of your experiences.
Thanks,
Owen

I have shot 6 Russians and Finns this last year and all did very well with "undersized" bullets of .313 i never slugged a bore.Body can be smaller if nose is larger like you altered 8mm's will be.

I have sized quite few 8mm Lyman 245g 323378's down to .314 for my 91-30 and they work great.I lube(fill all grooves) and size them .325 in a lyman lubrasizer with 8mm check and push them though a lee "push through" .314 die is all.I have also just run them in a standard .314 die in the sizer with no problems.I added the step of running the nose into a .308 die(with a flat top punch nose down) to help it enter the throat better.You will need to play with the amount into the die to fit your leade.They shoot 2" or under for 5 @ 100 90% of the time with irons in my 91-30 i use them in.You cant generally size a bullet too much,but you can ruin it by sizing it wrong.

I have shot 6 Russians and Finns this last year and all did very well with "undersized" bullets of .313 and i never slugged a bore.Body can be smaller if nose is larger like you altered 8mm's will be.



before and after shown in picture.Look how the 30 cal sizing grew the bullet.

George

[damron g]

Thats a lot of squeezin down. My .314 shoots well with the Lee 160 designed for the 7.62x39, and drops out of the mold with my alloy at .315. I use mule snot for this one.
1Shirt!:coffeecom


i also think its hard to beat that one in the Russian even over the 314299.

George

[craig61a]

"You cant generally size a bullet too much,but you can ruin it by sizing it wrong."

That's good to know...

[damron g]

That's good to know...

my opinion only based on how much i have sized bullets.Some don't have as good of luck as me.I have taken .378 dia 38-55 bullets and carefully made them .358 bullets and they shot great on my 35 Whelen.

george

[Buckshot]

...............Years ago I had a M1909 Argentine Cav Carb that I simply could NOT find a boolit to fit the bore. It was .314" x .304" and no one made 'Fat 30 Loverins' :-) Speaking of Loverins, I used the Lyman 323470, which is a 165gr RN for the 8mm and dropped from my mould at .325". I lube sized it .323" and then squirted it up through a Lee .314" push through die. Found out that Argentine shot pretty well with it.

It's pretty much 'How' you size down that far, if you are forced to that makes the biggest difference.

.............Buckshot

[Bret4207]

I wouldn't fire lap unless it really needs it. That's the last step before barrel replacement. I'd get it really, really clean. I mean soak it, use a Foul Out, 4/0 steel wool, any solvent you can think of. Get it CLEAN. Then I'd take a look at it, probably slug it and see what I got. I'd be inclined to try some standard "Fat 30" type boolits like the Lyman 314299, you should be able to beg or buy some if you ask here. I would try to get them UNSIZED. Use a quality lube, Definitely use a GC on a GC design. You may find yourself pleasantly surprised. If it still needs a fatter boolit consider paper patching.

[Larry Gibson]

I've found that the chamber necks and thickness of the case neck is the real limiting factor on what the largest sized bullet that can be used in the MN M91s. I've used .314 sized cast bullets in a lot of them, some with some pretty bad bores, and have found they do pretty good.

With fairly decent bores 314299 is a good choice as mentioned. However, like Buckshot, I've found the Loverns (323470 and 323471) to shoot the best is such 7.62x54R bores. I size them at .325 and put the GC on filling all the lube grooves with lube. I then size the bullets in honed out Lee push through sizers at .314, .316 or .318 depending on the need.

I've a GB mould that was supposed to be a 311291 but it is more of a 314291 because bullets drop at .314 - .315 on the driving bands and .304 -.305 on the nose. I've been sizing these at .314 and shooting them through the M39 Finn. I suspect with that fat nose they will also do as well in the oversize M91s as the Loverns but have not tried them yet. I do think that sizing down a .32 bullet is the best way. Just make sure to seat the GC and lube all the grooves at .321-325 first. A lee .314 sizer is easy to hone out larger if need be.

As bret mentions cleaning first is needed. I do a really good soaking with Sweet's and then use the 4/0 steel wool wrapped around a worn .30 or .32 cal brush and scrub the bejesus out of it. Most of them, even the pretty bad looking ones can be made to shoot cast bullets that fit at least well enough for some fun with the old rifles.

Larry Gibson

[damron g]

"Most of them, even the pretty bad looking ones can be made to shoot cast bullets that fit at least well enough for some fun with the old rifles."

And once you have it filled up with lube and crud from cast bullets don't clean it down to bare metal again.A patch with mineral spirits before a new session helps get the thing settled with fewer shots if you want.My Finn 28 with suspect bore shoot very well until i cleaned it,then it took quite a few to get it back to shooting.It started out as a 4"+ @ 100 gun and when i sold it did about 2".
the new owner didn't take my advice and cleaned the snot out of it and it shot horrible at first.

George

[Hang Fire]

Sizing boolits down ten thou is no problem if done correctly.

When shooting cast boolits it calls for creativity. With all the odd sized bores encountered, one is only limited by their savvy and imagination.