8x56R data?

[Wayne Smith]

Anybody have a source for 8x56R Hungarian data? Lee dosn't list it, Hornaday doesn't, and my Sierra #5, my latest, doesn't. Lee's die set lists some powders I don't have. I would guess 3031, 4895, and such would be reasonable powders.

I have a few of OldFeller's 8mm Karabiner cast a LLA'd as cast with a gas check. Mine cast with a base band @.329", which should stabilize in that bore. We'll see as soon as I find some data!

[StarMetal]

Wayne,

Buckshot and I both have the M95 Steyr carbines in that caliber and both mine and Buckshot's have a groove around .331. We both were disappointed that Lee come out with a mould and sizer, but the bullet will only cast at .329 and that's what their sizer is too. As you can guess from our two rifles that .329 is too small. I use a .338 Lee mould and size it down slightly.

As for loads you can introplate some from say the 8x57 mauser even the 7.62x54Russian, which by the way the case is almost the same exact size. I've shot just about all kinds of powder in mine from 4895 surplus to surplus 844, 860, and 5010. I get excellent results in my carbine with those slow surplus powders. The action is brute strong too. It's a great cast bullet rifle because the rifling grooves are real deep and this helps grib the bullet better. If you have the carbine getting toward the heavier loads will beat your shoulder. Oldfeller designed two bullets for this caliber. The first mould got destroyed (long story) the second one he has yet. I can consistantly shoot 7/8 inch groups with mine at 100 yards using that 5010 powder and his bullet. Rifle wears peep sights.

Joe

[Wayne Smith]

OK, I did find some data I could begin to use with 4350 (I forgot I had it!). Lee has a 225gr bullet starting @ 41.3gr 4350, and that's what I started with even though my bullet is 245gr. Mine is cast, Lee's is condom.

My bullet is 1.1405" long, and I'm seating to an overall length of 2.90". According to Donnelly & Towsley case capacity is 64.01 gr water. They list the 8x57 as 62.68 gr water. Close, you're right, Joe.

How far are you sizing your .338's, Joe? Did Rick make the sizer? Any chance of getting Oldfeller's bullet onto Midsouth like his other two?

I've got some H870 and nothing to use it in. Sold the 25-06 twenty five years ago, still carrying around that powder! Think a caseful might be interesting? Probably can compress it with the bullet seating?

No, I'm not about to try it before hearing from you and/or Rick, Joe!

[drinks]

A friend is very much into the 8x56R, he has several, about 15-20.
He has found a lot of different size barrels, including some that change size 3 or 4 times from muzzle to breech.
I made him a reamer to open the Lee mold to .333 and a .332 sizer, he has improved his groups with cast bullets, but has not come near to the results with jacketed bullets.
It does not seem he has any that are cast bullet friendly, you may be more lucky.
This is again a case of military stuff made in a hurry and not well maintained.
The M39s and K31s are the only foreign rifles I have heard of that are pretty uniform in condition and accuracy.
After shooting my K31, I sold the M44 to the first person who showed the slightest interest.

[StarMetal]

I sized my .338 bullets to .332. No Rick didn't make me a sizer I opened up my Lee push through. I have a lathe too and make my own stuff.

I was surprised that the 5010 surplus shot so well in my 8x56R. It's a very slow and dirty burning powder and seems to like overbore bottleneck cartridges, which the 8x56R is not. With that said the 870 you have might work well.

You never said what level power range you want to load for. Me I don't like real light loads. I do not load for economy. Thus I rarely use pistol/shotgun powders in my rifle loads. That's not to say that there is anything wrong with it, it's just not for me.

Drinks,

I don't know what to think about your friend. I can tell you that Oldfeller has one were the bore is really really worn and very big. Yet he gets it to shoot pretty good. Buckshot gets very good results out of his. I get very good results from mine. I can't believe your friend has that many and can't get one to shoot and that leads me to believe he's not a knowledge cast reloader and shooter even though he or you may say he is...and yes I know that you didn't say that in your post...but I bet you will in the next one. There's guys that have loaded for years and feel they know all the tricks and they don't. Ask 45 2.1 about that, he'll tell you how many people he has helped.

Joe

[Wayne Smith]

Joe,

Right now I'm looking for a bullet that will stabilize and fit. Then I worry about power levels. I agree, I've not found much purpose for pistol powders except making holes in paper.

If I'm gonna load it, I want it to be able to kill something. Just keeping with the original purpose, that. And I can't see busting squirrels with light loads and military sights! So, I'll wear my PAST pad and keep it somewhere in the normal power levels.

[Buckshot]

............Wayne, easiest thing to do is to use a .338 boolit and size it down to say ................groove? The throats are HUGE and the grooves are deep so just sizing to the groove still see's quite a bit of lead being moved around when the slug fully engraves on it's way up the barrel.

For load data just use the generic full power military type cast boolit loads, ie:

10-12 Unique
14-20 2400
18-22 4227
20-24 SR4759
22-26 H4198
24-30 3031

I'd use dacron with the 4198 & 3031, but that's up to you.

I've never gotten accuracy as good as Joe has from my M95 and M95/34 but can easily get 2" groups at 50 yards. All I've done is kind of played with it off and on. Nothing very consistant or methodical.

..............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

Wayne,

Just shoot Oldfeller a pm and ask him if he would mould you up some of hie Boxcars (that's what we call his second bullet design). Other then that the Lee .338 bullet works pretty well. Boy I tell ya if Lee would have cut their .329 mould a couple of hairs bigger it would have been the cats meow. Now let me explain two big differences between the Lee .329 bullet and Lee .338 bullet, plus throw in Oldfellers bullet. The Lee .329 and Oldfeller's bullets use 8mm gaschecks, and the .338 Lee, of course, uses the .338 check. Thought you should know that, as there's not a whole heck of alot of use for .338 checks. They may even quit making them.

Like Buckshot I too use a Dacron or Kapok filler if my powder charge is small. Just make sure you fille the space between the top of the powder and the base of the bullet...don't PACK it in. Dacron is easier to use as you can cut it in rectangles and push it in the case and then it springs out to fill that space quite well.

When Buckshot and I started loading for this round there were no cases to be had nor moulds....and finding reloading dies was alittle tough. You fellows starting out with one of these rifles today are alot more fortunate. This early problem was one fo the qualities that attracted me to this round and rifle.

As an aside I have sized down some Hornady 210 gr .338 bullets made specifically for the old 33 Winchester. The bullet are a soft flat nose because the 33 Win was chambered in leveractions with tubular magazines. Also this .338 doesn't have near as thick jacket as the .338's intented for the .338 Win Mag. Makes for a great whitetail deer bullet. The cast bullets thought are very good deer bullets too.

I look at the 8x56R as the little .338 short magnum. Buckshot will tell you how the little rifle impresses him also, he's built one into another caliber by rebarreling it.

Joe

[Ricochet]

Lee has a 225gr bullet starting @ 41.3gr 4350
Exactly the same starting load they list for 4350 with a 225 grain condom in 8x57, reinforcing Joe's suggestion that 8x57 data is pretty close.

[Wayne Smith]

Anyone with QuickLoad want to venture a guess what I'll be shooting Monday? I loaded the 245gr cast bullet over 41.3 gr IMR4350, 42.3 fr IMR4350, and 50.2 gr H870. This is with WLR primers in the 8x56R Hornaday brass.

BTW, how does Alliant's 8700 compare/relate to H870? Or does it?

[StarMetal]

I'd venture to say your 870 load would be in the neighborhood of high 1600 fps.

I believe all the 870 group powders are pretty close. Seems the 860 surplus seems to fall in with them in my opinion.

Joe

[NuJudge]

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=74868

http://p205.ezboard.com/fsteyrmannlicherfrm17.showMessage?topicID=44.topic

http://p090.ezboard.com/fcollectorguns35625frm21.showMessage?topicID=30.to pic

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4002

http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1136&postcount=1

http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7027

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/berdanreloading2/index.asp

My mold casts bullets at about .331", but I cast HOT with a good bit of Tin and Antimony, with no mold spray. I lube in a Lyman die that's a little larger, and the gas check is a little larger than .331" on the finished bullet. I like 17 or 18 grains of OLD 2400 in Austrian brass, with Russian PMC/Murom berdan primers.

Lots of chaff, a little wheat at least.

CDD

[Wayne Smith]

I went to the range just to see the shape of the bullet holes. Each and every one was round @50 yds. All the loads were shooting just a couple of inches high to the battle sights, so I'd guess they were all running ~16-1800fps. They all stayed on the target, too!

Biggest problem was my eyes and those sights. I see a blur when I look through the top of my bifocals. Ah well, anyone know of an arperture sight that will mount without changing the rifle? Yeah, I thought not!

Next time I take my Chonograph with me.

[StarMetal]

Wayne,

Can't think of a sight that won't modify the rifle. What I did is put a Williams receiver sight on mine. With talk to Williams engineer and giving him the receiver dimensions we come up with one that is for a Model 70 Winchester. With alittle shaping it fit like a glove.

You will find that most military rifles shoot high because this is the way the battle sight is adjusted. What I did with my Steyr is mig-welded the front sight and filed it to shape to bring down the point of impact at 100 yards.

I wouldn't have worried about the holes not being round, the rifle has plenty enough riflling twist to stabilize just about anything that you are going to shoot out of it.

Joe

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/CBEAAE5A40D244A/standard.jpg

...........This is what I did to the one I converted to 30-40. It's a Lyman turned around backwards. I'm not aware of any aftermarket sights mounting in the 'as issued' position.

BTW, you probably knew but if not there is a hidden notch on the rear sight. Stand up the ladder and raise the elevator up and you'll see the notch. Shoots much lower.

.............Buckshot

[Wayne Smith]

Rick - how is your's attached? Did you drill and tap or weld? Just out of curousity, I don't think I'll do either with mine.

Thank's Joe, you confirmed what I thought.

Frankly, I'm not suprised that it shot round holes after I set my bullet seating stem too short and when I chambered the sample I found rifling engraved on the nose. I think I'll stick with this bullet for a while unless OldFellar's becomes available. It's a little heavy, but then, that's good, right?? Long, heavy bullet for caliber. As long as I can get reasonable velocities out of it I'll be happy.

[Buckshot]

Rick - how is your's attached? Did you drill and tap or weld? .

D&T'd.

..............Buckshot

[Bret4207]

NEI makes a dandy design, the .331-245 I think it is. Works great in my '95 with a starting load of 13.0 Red Dot. I'm up in the 15.0 gr range now. Jsut haven't had time to mess with it more. Great hunting rifle for an ex-military.

[26Charlie]

Got 100 of the Graf & Sons brass, & put together a couple of CB loads. Used a charge of 28.0 gr. 3031 with two bullets - Lyman 338220, and RCBS 33-200-FP. Both bullets are 200 gr. GC for the .33 Winchester, casting a nominal .338, so I sized and lubed .338 then put them through a Lee .330 push-through die. I had them make this for me custom, but I think they now list a standard .332 sizing die.
The results were OK, not super, each load capable of holding 10 shots in the 5" black at 100 yd. from the bench.
This M95 Hungarian carbine is fairly difficult to load and feed with ease, and the recoil of the 200 gr. military ball load is brutal in the light carbine. I just cannot feature a cavalry unit hitting anything with these. The battle sight is 500 meters, so close trajectory is high. There is a notch for 300 meters on the ladder. The cast bullets shot to where the sights are for the 600 meter setting on the ladder sight. These cast loads make it more fun to shoot and are good enough to hit a beer can regularly, but more experimentation will likely make better groups.

[Buckshot]

............I clocked Austrian nazi headstamped milsurp from my M95 Stutzen at 2308 fps average. Consider a 208gr spitzer boattail doing that out of a 19.5" bbl and when it lights off, it backs off the bullet very well :-)

...............Buckshot