.58 ignition

[sabbatus]

ive come into a thompson big boar .58 recently and am wondering about ignition sources. it seems to have a musket cap nipple on it, all of my other front stuffers ( the biggest is a .50) use a #11 cap. would i be able to ignite the big 58 with #11 magnum caps or is there reason for the musket cap. i will be shooting lee's real 440 gr bullet as i happen to have a mold for it. Any thoughts on loads would be helpful to as i have yet to work with this cal. thanks in advance for any advice.

[fishhawk]

my .58 lights off fine with a standard #11 cap as for a load 75 gr of FFg with a RB in mine. steve k

[daddywpb]

My .58 T/C Renegade uses #11 caps. Congrats on the Big Boar. They're hard (and expensive) to come by! I watched a few of them go by on Gunbroker. Beautiful rifles though - like a New Englander on steroids.

The load I'm using is 100 grains of Goex FFg, Hornady round ball and a .018 patch. A little tough to load, but it shoots GREAT!

http://a.imageshack.us/img825/1055/roa014.jpg (http://img825.imageshack.us/i/roa014.jpg/)

Do you have pictures?

[405]

Agree with fishhawk, I have no problem igniting BP in my .58 musket with a standard #11 cap. There seems to be two schools of thought about it. Use the biggest boomer magnum cap/nipple you can find or just use a # 11. Some even go to the big magnum shotshell primers in their inlines- either because of the lure of "magnum" marketing effect or some of the BP substitutes need it- not sure which reason.

I think the big musket cap thing came about early on with the larger bores (military muskets) because they got more reliable ignition with more spark and fire. What comes to mind and it may be all wrong is that 150 years ago, particularly within the military reliability thinking, was that the bigger cap was needed to blast thru accumulated crud after firing many rounds without cleaning (think battlefield conditions) and in the case of the minie' ball where it was designed to scrape fouling rearward with each loading. And it was undersized for the same reason so it could be loaded into a badly fouled bore for reasonable service thru many shots during a battle.

Going forward 150 yrs where most of our shooting (except for structured re-enactments) is a few shots at a time on the range and cleaning is on our time and is done as needed. Under those conditions I have no problem igniting BP with a standard #11 cap. I switched out the nipple on my .58 musket from musket to #11 because I got tired of being sprayed in the face with pieces and particles flash from the musket cap and it was eating away at the wood in that area of the stock. Turns out now I get very little over-kill flash and ignition seems to be just as reliable. But, I do clean often and make sure the flash channel is clear.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
My Zouave ( Navy Arms .58) Musket has been plowing deer for 20 + years NOT using musket caps but standard NOT magnum #11 caps. No regrets having the #11 nipple on it. Cival war muskets were not noted as have the greatest ignition system and the repros are just as =.
Mr. Ned Roberts made alot statements about percussian caps in his fine Muzzleloading book. For accuracy loads the shooters were not looking for the Hottest caps. They actually wanted the coolest cap that would fire 100%. 120+ years ago they had alot of caps to pick from.
My dad was a muzzleloader from the time he got out of the Navy and I do not remember him ever using anything but standard #11 caps on his muskets. But then he only shot 2F and never had a problem that I know of. I have used 2F & Pyro some and alsways had good ignition down to -5 degrees but that was the coldest day I ever hunted .

[curator]

Musket caps were designed to overcome the difficulty in capping using #11 caps. Soldiers were dropping them. The larger musket cap was easier to fish out of the cap pouch and get on the nipple by feel alone. A small decrease in accuracy for better reliability and ease of handling was OK.

[405]

curator,
Good point about ease of handling the big top hat cap. I read an account of that somewhere a long time ago? Just curious though, anyone know the origin/time frame of the musket cap development... Europe, US? Seems like a very short time span of conversion from flint to musket cap percussion within the military muskets. Also, seems the period of military muskets using #11 type nipples would have been likewise very, very short, just dunno? I guess it was a time of very rapid change anyway as the RF & CF cartridge was in work.

[10 ga]

I have a .58 Cabelas sporter hawken and it's nickname is "No Track" as after you shoot a deer with it you don't need to track them, cause he don't make any more tracks. It came with a standard nipple that takes a #11 cap and I retrofitted with a Spitfire Musket nipple. Just my personal choice. If it already has a musket nipple just get musket caps. I shoot RBs in my .58 even though I have a miniball mold. That .565 or .570 RB, that's around 280 gr. wt., in a pillow tick patch over 110 gr of Swiss FF is a real thumper. I usually shoot 60 to 80 gr FF for practice and plinkin and the heavy load for hunting. That 110 gr load has pretty stout recoil in that light gun but it is very deadly. In short the easiest thing to do is just use the musket caps. You got a good gun there. 10 ga

[waksupi]

One thing that would color the choice around here, musket caps are rare as hen's teeth. I can't think of the last time I saw any in the local shops.

[10 ga]

Sab, Don't know if you get anywhere near the north end of VA but check out "Back Creek Gun Shop" near Winchester. The reenactors and BP shooters compete there. He has all types of real BP and Caps. Call to be sure as they are usually only open on match weekends before and after the matches.

http://www.blackpowderva.com/

They are really nice guys and have a good magazine of powder.
Best, 10 ga

[izzyjoe]

musket caps are hard to find, if you can still find them? #11 are the way to go. i'm sure you'll be happy with the big bore, i had one for years, and traded for a new englander 50 cal. wish i had it back.

[sabbatus]

thanks for the input all, #11 nipple is installed and shes ready for the first range outing on sunday, this should be fun!!

[10 ga]

Sab, please give a report on results. My .58 shoots very straight and you only have to account for trajectory with different loads. 60 gr of FF under Patched RB is on at 50 yd but low at 85 yd. Then 90 gr of FF and on at 85 yd. That 110 gr load puts me on at 100 and 3 in. high at 50. Best, 10 ga