I think I am going to loose it

[shootinxd]

I am just going crazy trying different powders,lubes,alloys,sizing and everything inbetween and I STILL have leading going on in the first inch of the barrel just were the rifing starts.The barrel slugs .400-401.Boolit sized to .4015-.401 in a RCBS.Should I try reaming out my sizing die or get a custom made die?I have had the best luck shooting boolits as cast with alox/moble 1 synthetic grease combo,but tumble lubing is just a big pain in the a$$.
The powders I have tried are AA#5,Power pistol,and Red Dot.The first 2 have just too much recoil for quick follow ups.ANY suggestion would be appreciated.:killingpc.Gun is an XD40 cal service model.

[WHITETAIL]

I think you need to JPW your boolits.:cbpour:

[Wayne Smith]

You need a bigger boolit. .401 +.002 = .403.

[Centaur 1]

If the cartridge chambers without sizing the boolit, then don't size. Make up some of the alox/jpw/ms lube and try it. It dries hard so there's no mess, I think that it will change your opinion about tumble lubing.

[emorris]

What type of dies are you using? If they are the lee with the factory crimp die you may try not using it. It can size the boolit when it sizes the case. You still want to put a taper crimp. ou can use the seater die or you may be able to swith out the guts with the factory crimp die with the case expander die.

[geargnasher]

You want to make the .40 S&W shoot? Try these things:

1) It is a magnum pressure cartridge, use a slower powder, like Longshot, Blue Dot, or HS6.
2) It is a magnum pressure cartridge, use harder alloy like water-quenched wheel weights unless you've found a mould that takes gas checks.
3) It is a magnum pressure cartridge, FORGET using tumble lube and use Carnauba Red, Felix lube, Orange Magic, or similar HV rifle lube.
4) Fit is everything. Pull a boolit after seatin/crimping and measure it, if it isn't STILL at least .001" over groove diameter, you need to get a different set of dies or correct what is wrong with the dies you have that is swaging down your boolits.
5) If the gun won't chamber ammunition with .001" oversized boolits, get a different barrel.
6) Slug your bore from both ends to make sure you don't have a restriction at the beginning of the rifling for some reason.
7) If all this checks out, or if #6 shows a restriction, firelap it.

Gear

[RobS]

If your bore is what you state it to be then your boolits are a bit too small for your intensions. Bullet fit is the most important thing to look at when leading is occurring and to varify by pulling a boolit will be the proof needed.

Gear has a good list for you to work through as well.

[geargnasher]

The powders I have tried are AA#5,Power pistol,and Red Dot.The first 2 have just too much recoil for quick follow ups.ANY suggestion would be appreciated.

I forgot to emphasize that fast powders are no good in the .40 for any but the most mousey-fart loads. Loaded hot, those fast powders and wimpy lube combined with undersized boolits that are probably too soft are slamming the rifling at about muzzle velocity. You need to slow the launch and build pressure more gradually with slower powder to reduce the rifling skid, make bigger boolits to seal and stop the gas-cutting at the leade, and use a real lube that will handle the dynamics of a high-pressure handgun. If you're loading AA5 and PP to the point that you think it has too much recoil, then there's your biggest problem. The .40 kicks. the XD platform eats the web of my hand which is why I don't own one, but even the M&P is a handfull after a box or two with decent loads. To get the power you're evidently after, re-read the items I posted above, and in the previous post. The slower powders will get you well over 1100 fps with managable recoil.

Gear

[noylj]

Your barrel is telling you there is a problem.
A clue to what is causing the leading is where the leading first begins to appear.
If it appears near the chamber, chances are that bullet diameter or hardness are the cause. A diameter too small or an alloy too hard will allow high pressure gas to leak past the bullet, which erodes the bullet and leaves leading near the chamber.
If the leading first appears on the leading edge of the rifling (if you imagine the bullet being pushed through the barrel, you will note that one edge of the rifling does most of the work of imparting a spin to the bullet. This is the edge you see when you look through the barrel from the breech end), the bullet might be too soft or the velocity too high.
If the leading appears in the second half of the barrel, the bullet is running out of lube. You should see a star shaped pattern of lube accumulate on the muzzle. This is an indication that there is a little excess lube.

[Bret4207]

The guys have pretty well covered the usual suspects. I'd almost guarantee a larger boolit will cure your problems. Measure the ID of a case mouth from a full power load in that gun. That's about as big as you can go and probably where best results will occur.

[XWrench3]

+1, BOOLIT SIZE! i shoot 40 S&W with a lee tumble lube boolit, using tumble lube, and it works just fine. either beagle the mold, or lap it a bit to enlarge the cavities. forget sizing the boolits. i can shoot AA#2, titegroup, hp38, or bullseye with no trouble. a 40S&W is not a low recoil gun. it certainly is nothing like a 44 magnum, but it is not a 38 special wadcutter either.

[shootinxd]

I will try to enlarge my sizing die(I am tired of clening tumble lube off)and maybe a different powder like blue dot,any other suggestions.Thanks for all the help.I love casting and reloading,but I got to admit gettin the lead free load has been quite a challenge so far.

[Shiloh]

.402 boolit works for me.

Aftermarket barrel, range scrap, tumble lubed. Accurate, not a hint of leading, a LEE 175 TLSWC with the BB trimmed off past the last lube grove. Drop at 158 gr.

[geargnasher]

If you get an understanding of the basics and get them right, your frustration level will plummet, I assure you. Take a read back over all the posts so far and let each point soak in. We wouldn't steer you wrong, man!

Enlarging the sizing die is only half the work you need to do, like Xwrench3 said you need bigger boolits to start off with, and that's going to involve physically increasing the size of the cavities in the mould. I would suggest getting the mould to drop .4025" at the smallest and size to .402" to make sure it is round. It should still chamber ok.

Noylj pointed out that if the buildup of lead is on the "leading" edge of the rifling the velocity is too high or alloy too soft. He's absolutely correct. I'll add that the velocity is too high AT THE POINT THE BOOLIT IS ENGRAVING. That is partially a result of using powders too fast for the pressure or alloy. I don't have any way of proving this to you, but I believe that some of those faster powders have reached peak pressure before the boolit leaves the cartridge case, and the boolit velocity is way too high at the point it engraves the rifling. The inertia of the boolit has to be overcome by the rifling as it grabs the boolit and yanks it into a spin. If the boolit hits the rifling too fast, it will skid. Actually, all boolits skid just a bit, but it only causes a problem if the boolits skid far enough to make wide engraving marks all the way across the driving bands. If that happens, you have massive gas leaks, gas cutting, and leading. The solution is slower powders or extremely light loads with fast powders.

Gear

[shootinxd]

The best load so far as far as leading and accuracy has been as cast .403,tuble lube with alox and just a touch of mineral spits and mobil 1 epc ,over 4.0 grains of red dot.Alot of leading with AA#5 and power pistol using loads from below min to just below max.(I don't shoot max anything).I realize 40 is not a soft shooter,but so far light loads of fast powders has worked the best.Do you have a slow powder that you can recommend.Load amount?

[shootinxd]

OH,I have also backed my seating die off so it just holds the boolit tight enough you can't push it into the case with my thumb,then a real light FC to secure it.

[Linstrum]

Except for one thing, the causes and cures of your particular leading problem have been covered very well by several members.

What hasn't been mentioned is making sure you have enough antimony or arsenic in your casting alloy. Besides increasing both its basic as-cast hardness and heat treat hardness, antimony or arsenic help prevent leading via chemical means by minimizing the boolit alloy's tendency to wet and stick tightly to iron. With adequate antimony and/or arsenic you may still get gas cutting and lead deposited inside your bore, but it will blow out or be carried out by subsequent shots and won't build up appreciably.

There are four elements that will minimize leading when added to boolit alloys, and they are phosphorus, arsenic, antimony and bismuth. The middle two - arsenic and antimony - are the easiest to obtain and use, arsenic from chilled shot and antimony from linotype and wheel weights. One reason why wheel weight alloy works so well for boolits is because it has way more than enough antimony in it to moderate leading.

The reason why babbit bearing metal works so well in gas and diesel engines for the crankshaft and connecting rod large end bearings is because the antimony it contains prevents the anti-friction bearing metal from "contact soldering" and smearing onto the iron bearing journals. Phosphorus, antimony, arsenic, and bismuth will not stick to iron, steel, or cast iron, and it prevents alloys that contain them from sticking as well. They also impart this property to bullets fired through steel barrels. I don't know how well they prevent leading in stainless steel barrels, I suspect they do not work as well as with the various iron steels.

If your boolit alloy does not contain a few percent antimony, try adding some chilled shot, wheel weights, and/or linotype - it does not take a large amount of arsenic and/or antimony at all to benefit from their anti-leading properties. If your alloy already has a few percent antimony, then concentrate on what the others have said, it is all excellent advice.

Good luck!


rl836

[shootinxd]

My alloy is straight wheel weight,water drop cast.I just spent the last hour slugging the barrel just to make sure my messurements were correct.One slug come in just shy of .402.I think its time to save some money(and frustration) and start lookin for an aftermarket barrel.I want to thank all who contributed there experience and time.

[Echo]

Wow, Way To Go, Linstrum! I never knew about these aspects of arsenic and antimony. That info will be a part of my understanding of boolit making from now on. Thanks!

ShootinXD, I believe you mentioned the as-cast diameter of your boolits as .403. Well & good. My recommendation for auto shooters has been to load the fattest boolits that will reliably chamber in your gun, and let the barrel size it down to the correct size. If you want to enlarge the Lee sizer, it is easy to do - just disassemble and make a hone with a piece of 3/8" dowel that you have slit and inserted a piece of 220 grit sandpaper, to be followed by 440 grit, followed by crocus cloth. Use with oil of some sort, and check every few minutes (w/220) by re-assembling and sizing a couple boolits. If not enough, repeat. When close (within a few tenths) go to the 440 briefly, then the crocus cloth. Able to do this while watching 'Law & Order' reruns...

You typed in while I was typing! With your as-cast diameter of .403, the difference between that and your bbl is marginal. Rather than buy a new bbl, lap out your mold a bit - easy to do, see the stickies. You should be looking at .404 for as-cast diameter. And forget the water-dropping. WW's (maybe w/2% Sn) will work fine in your less-than-than max loads.

Ain't it FUN!

[Armorer]

I saw where it was also suggested to try some slower powder like HS-6. Any chance of that before replacing your barrel? Might be a cheaper alternative if you can swing it. I shoot a .40 as well, and the same water dropped WW 175 TL boolit lubed with 45-45-10. I was loading with 231 and decided just for giggles to try some HS-6. I just loaded them yesterday so haven't had a chance to shoot yet. Mostly I'm curious to see how it works out for you in case I have leading issues as well. Good luck!

[Jech]

Following this thread with interest...I've gone through a similiar saga with my XD45ACP 5". Always had leading in the first 1" of the barrel (forcing cone) when shooting Missouri Bullet Company Softball 230gr .452" LRN 18BHN bullets. Unique charges so low that I had stovepipes all the way up to charges too high to list due to liability reasons all saw the same forcing cone problems. I tried a plethora of OALs, varying levels of belling, crimping or lack thereof, with and without the FCD, it always still leaded.

Hoping to resolve this by casting my own but I snapped the sprue plate handle on my Lee 6-banger the first time out...didn;t have the plate closed all the way and waited too long to cut the sprue >< Live and learn I suppose? Once the replacement part arrives from Lee, we'll see how they fare with emmert's lube recipe and HP38.

[HangFireW8]

Following this thread with interest...I've gone through a similiar saga with my XD45ACP 5". Always had leading in the first 1" of the barrel (forcing cone) when shooting Missouri Bullet Company Softball 230gr .452" LRN 18BHN bullets. Unique charges so low that I had stovepipes all the way up to charges too high to list due to liability reasons all saw the same forcing cone problems.

Unique is a little on the slow side for 45ACP, so it doesn't bump up the slug to seal the bore quickly enough. It can work fine with stiffer loads or softer lead.

18BHN is on the hard side for 45ACP, not that it can't work, but 14BHN would be easier to find a good load for.

Combine the two issues, light loads of slow powder + too hard lead, and you have throat leading.

Also, you make no mention of bore size...

-HF

[geargnasher]

Ok Linstrum, that's the nature of plain bearings. Larry Gibson just posted something a few days ago that seems the opposite, how high-antimony alloys with not enough tin can cause leading due to the pure lead nodules trapped in the antmony crystals. I'm trying to understand the difference between what the two of you are saying. I assume that what Larry is talking about is more an anomaly of the casting process and the physical properties of the antimony because the antimony freezes first unless combined with tin to make Sb/Sn which freezes after the lead does in amounts less than Linotype. What you're talking about is a little different, more the makeup than the process, but it seems that there is still some disagreement to what is going on here. While I understand the nature of the elements we use in boolit casting and how they work together, I'm not up to speed with what happens on a molecular level when these various alloys are rubbing against steel under high speed and pressure.

This is extremely interesting and doesn't come up very often, I think it deserves some discussion.

I'm also interested in a discussion on what "antimony wash" is and why it forms, seems that it might be caused by certain alloy composition, seems related.

And that brings up gas checks. Do they scrape off lead as they go, make a better gas seal, or both?

I've used a lot of 16:1 and found it doesn't lead any worse than WW alloy watered down to 11 bhn. I've used water-quenched 50/50 WW and pure lead with no extra tin added and pushed it really hard in rifles with good results. Accuracy dropped off long before leading appeared. Can you shed a little more light on the subject?

Gear

[Jech]

Bumping this one, hoping the OP can leave some more info for us!

~ Jech

[noylj]

bigger bullet.
How can tumble lubing be a pain? Sizing is a pain. You want to cast a larger diameter bullet. If you mold isn't throwing 0.403-0.404" bullets, you may need to go to a harder alloy to get a larger diameter.
Don't size. If you don't have a Lubrisizer (hate them things) and a sizing die of .404, you may have to pan lube or tumble lube twice.
I have shot my own non-TL cast bullets with just a light tumble in LLA in 9mm and .45 with great results.
I also have started to TL my commercially purchased bullets. This has really cut down on leading, even with some bullets that are 0.001" too small. I pour 500 bullets into a casserole dish, squirt on a little LLA, and then shuffle the bullets around for a minute or until they all have a slightly shiny wet look. Dump them out to dry on sheet of Al foil. Do the same with bullets I have cast. It's quick and easy—less then 5 minutes from start to end.
You may want to NOT warm up the LLA, and may even want to let it thicken a little before you add the bullets.

Put the following in a sticky:

Cast bullet leading
A clue to what is causing the leading is where the leading first begins to appear.
If it appears near the chamber, chances are that bullet diameter or hardness are the cause. A diameter too small or an alloy too hard will allow high pressure gas to leak past the bullet, which erodes the bullet and leaves leading near the chamber.
If the leading first appears on the leading edge of the rifling (if you imagine the bullet being pushed through the barrel, you will note that one edge of the rifling does most of the work of imparting a spin to the bullet. This is the edge you see when you look through the barrel from the breech end) the bullet might be too soft or the velocity too high.
If the leading appears in the second half of the barrel, the bullet is running out of lube. You should see a star shaped pattern of lube accumulate on the muzzle. This is an indication that there is a little excess lube.

[Bret4207]

Unique is a little on the slow side for 45ACP, so it doesn't bump up the slug to seal the bore quickly enough. It can work fine with stiffer loads or softer lead.

18BHN is on the hard side for 45ACP, not that it can't work, but 14BHN would be easier to find a good load for.

Combine the two issues, light loads of slow powder + too hard lead, and you have throat leading.

Also, you make no mention of bore size...

-HF

Start out with a boolit that fits in the first place (is large enough) and there's no need or desire to "bump up" the boolit.

[noylj]

Why is original poster going to "fix" his sizing die? Use the as-cast bullets unless they are the same or larger OD as a fired case's ID at the mouth.
IMHO—sizing of cast bullets is a total waste for 99% of users.
Before LLA, I used a sizing die that was 0.001" over the as-cast diameter.
Also, I do not see the .40 has being a high speed or magnum cartridge and find LLA to work great, except I am thinking about making up some Recluse lube to cut down on smoke/smell when shooting. Just not a big enough deal to get up and do it...

[Jech]

IMHO—sizing of cast bullets is a total waste for 99% of users.

I fall into the unlucky 1% then :(

My Lee 6-banger 452-230-TC mold throws boolits at .455"...dummy cartridges made with unsized boolits headspace on the lead when I do the "barrel case gauge test". However, if I seat the boolit so deep that the cone itself is set slightly back into the case making it impossible for the lead to hit first, the dummy headspaces properly. I have to size mine down or else they just won't fit :P

[Bret4207]

I dunno Jech, having a production mould that throws a slightly large boolit is far, far better than the seemingly more common problem of a too small boolit. So in that sense you're pretty darn lucky!

[thx997303]

Also, I do not see the .40 has being a high speed or magnum cartridge

Well, you have to think in context of pistol cartridges

45 acp operates at a much lower pressure than 40 S&W

9mm operates at similar pressures.

357 mag operates at higher pressures.

38 special operates at much lower pressures.

40 S&W is in the high end of the pressure range for common pistol calibers, and should be treated somewhat differently because of it.

[9.3X62AL]

I don't tumble-lube, so I can't help much with the original poster's issues--but the discussion of the arsenic and antimony above is of keen interest to me.

Another interesting element here is the OP's barrel dimensions--.402". I've slugged a number of 40 S&W and 10mm barrels, and they unfailingly have groove diameters at .400"-.4005". Throats seldom exceed .401". In short, the OEM barrels I've played with "get it right", a trait not present in 9mm barrels--which can be all over the map.

[Just Duke]

If I remember correctly from my tactical days the XD was a Ukrainian gun design. Does it have a polygonal bore?

[thx997303]

It's actually Croatian.

No it has conventional rifling.

[mpmarty]

I don't shoot any 40 S&Ws but have five 10mm pistols that all do just fine with the LEE 170gr TCTL boolit. I use LLA/JPW with no Mineral Spirits in it at all. Dries hard and works great. I use power pistol, 2400 and AA9 for powder and get no leading whatsoever. I cast, tumble lube, dry overnight and shoot them babies with no sizing at all. I see in one of your posts you refer to a "FC" die if you mean the LEE factory crimp die the best advice I can give you is to lose that piece of **** as soon as possible. The LEE factory crimp dies for bottle neck and most rifle cases is a work of art with a collet mechanism that does the crimping. The pistol dies size the boolit down too much as you remove the crimped cartridge from the die resulting in leading at the breech end of the barrel.

[shootingbuff]

Well, you have to think in context of pistol cartridges

45 acp operates at a much lower pressure than 40 S&W

9mm operates at similar pressures.

357 mag operates at higher pressures.

38 special operates at much lower pressures.

40 S&W is in the high end of the pressure range for common pistol calibers, and should be treated somewhat differently because of it.

9mm/40/357mag operate at the same pressure 35,000.

[truckmsl]

If you get an aftermarket barrel, you might want to stay away from Lone Wolf. I doubt that a Lone Wolf barrel will accept anything much over .401, and the newest Lone Wolf I purchased had less case support at the feed ramp than my stock Glock 35 barrel.

[Char-Gar]

I don't load for the 40 S&W, but have put at least 1/4 million handloads through various 45 autos and would think the drill would be about the same.

1. Don't water drop those bullets, stay with air cooled wheel weight! They are plenty hard enough. Overly hard bullets are the cause of many problems.
2. Use a good soft lube like the old NRA 50/50 formula.
3. Maker certain the bullet is .001 or .002 over bore size.
4. Use a propertly adjusted taper crimp.

You still might get a little lead trash in the breech end of your barrel, but it will brush out with no ill consequences. Your problem might be your expectations. When we talk about no leading, we are not talking about the thin lead wash that will occur 99% of the time.

[thx997303]

9mm/40/357mag operate at the same pressure 35,000.

I've seen higher figures for the 357 mag.

[fredj338]

Agree, bullet fit is king. If the groove dia is .0401" you need a larger bullet. It's also possible the throat is larger dia still. A bullet of 10-12BHN pushed along w/ Unique or WSF should not lead to badly & possibly bump up to fill a slightly oversize throat. I am not a fan of tumble lubes & have good results w/ Lar's CR sized 0.401" in several pistols.
Unique works fine in the 45acp BTW. You just have to run full power loads. It is not at it's best when dropping below midrange pressure levels. I run 6gr under a 230grRNL for about 850fps in my XDTAC, runs flawlessly, very little leading w/ a 50/50 ww/lead bullet & CR @ 0.452".

[geargnasher]

I don't load for the 40 S&W, but have put at least 1/4 million handloads through various 45 autos and would think the drill would be about the same. Chargar, the drill is far from the same. That's like comparing a .32-20 to a .30-'06. The same advice does not apply. I highly suggest you buy handgun chambered for .40 S&W and actually do what it will take to succeed with your above advise before you dispense it. Now if you want to load the .40 to .45 ACP pressures (half, get this: FULLY HALF of the .40), then yeah, it might be kinda the same drill. Except SAAMMI chamber clearance specs are a bit different, and you can't just go "oh, I think I feel like going .002" over groove diameter today" because your leetle peestol's chamber might not swallow it, or it might start failing to go into battery after three rounds due to dirt. Remember the Singer 1911s?

1. Don't water drop those bullets, stay with air cooled wheel weight! They are plenty hard enough. Perhaps for plinkers. Not nearly so for full-house stuff.Overly hard bullets are the cause of many problems. ....and the solutions to others.
2. Use a good soft lube like the old NRA 50/50 formula. That should work here.
3. Maker certain the bullet is .001 or .002 over bore size. If the gun will chamber it, maybe, but only go as oversize as truly need be.
4. Use a propertly adjusted taper crimp. That is, no crimp at all. Just straighten out the bellmouth.

You still might get a little lead trash in the breech end of your barrel, but it will brush out with no ill consequences. You get trash in the forward part the barrel you ain't doing something right. Also, if you get low-pressure unburned powder in the chamber on an XD or an M&P you'll have battery issues. The load needs to be in the peak of the efficiency of the powder so it burns completely leaving no residue of powder or lube to cause chambering issues. Your problem might be your expectations. When we talk about no leading, we are not talking about the thin lead wash that will occur 99% of the time. I routinely shoot an M&P .40 at 1100+ fps with ZERO leading using water-quenched WW+2%Sn @ 22 BHN, Felix lube, boolit sized .0013" over groove (sized the day they're cast and aged at least a month). How? Stiff charge of Longshot. Blue Dot is better for accuracy but leaves crud in the front of the chamber like so many other powders.

One other thing, and I just did this this afternoon to prove a point to a friend of mine, four grains of Titegroup and ACWW will get you about 800 fps and I'm guessing between 15-18K CUP, shoots clean and reliably, smokes little, and hits just a tad harder than a .38 Special. Not bad, in fact great fun with snappy but light recoil, but it isn't what I call shooting a .40. Might as well load for the nine if you're going to load the .40 S&W like a .45 ACP, and many stock slidesprings won't cycle reliably with loads that light. Think about it, that's like loading a bone stock .45 ACP down to about 8,000 CUP and expecting it to cycle. Then, I loaded some more rounds with the exact same everything except I used a book load of near max Longshot which delivers nearly 1100 FPS with WD boolits, and the groups blew, the bore leaded, and the chamber fouled in just a few shots. That's called exceeding the limits. I loaded some more with WDWW and all else the same, cleaned the gun, and ripped off 50 over the Chrono no problem, no fouling, not function issues. Just my gun, but my buddie's XD likes the same stuff my M&P does, and dislikes the same stuff, conclusive enough for me.

Rant Off.

Gear

[HangFireW8]

Start out with a boolit that fits in the first place (is large enough) and there's no need or desire to "bump up" the boolit.

Start out with a too-small mold and a too-large barrel, and there IS a need to post on this forum and ask for help.

-HF

[shootingbuff]

I've seen higher figures for the 357 mag.

PSI vs CUP and when? For a bunch of yrs they have been the same now.

[shootingbuff]

Hey gm try loading 180-200 gr bullets. Less vel and pressures to deal with.

The 40 has a weak case. Let me say that again. The 40 has a weak case. Different size and cut chambers don't help matters. I learned a long time ago if I have to push a load I need a different cal. One doesn't have to push the load to push the brass on the 40. Stay safe.

There are reasons to dwnld any cartridge from easier and cheaper practice to playing the action sports or disabilities. Even the bullet powder combo that you have on hand.



One other thing, and I just did this this afternoon to prove a point to a friend of mine, four grains of Titegroup and ACWW will get you about 800 fps and I'm guessing between 15-18K CUP, shoots clean and reliably, smokes little, and hits just a tad harder than a .38 Special. Not bad, in fact great fun with snappy but light recoil, but it isn't what I call shooting a .40. Might as well load for the nine if you're going to load the .40 S&W like a .45 ACP, and many stock slidesprings won't cycle reliably with loads that light. Think about it, that's like loading a bone stock .45 ACP down to about 8,000 CUP and expecting it to cycle. Then, I loaded some more rounds with the exact same everything except I used a book load of near max Longshot which delivers nearly 1100 FPS with WD boolits, and the groups blew, the bore leaded, and the chamber fouled in just a few shots. That's called exceeding the limits. I loaded some more with WDWW and all else the same, cleaned the gun, and ripped off 50 over the Chrono no problem, no fouling, not function issues. Just my gun, but my buddie's XD likes the same stuff my M&P does, and dislikes the same stuff, conclusive enough for me.

Rant Off.

Gear

[GabbyM]

I ship all my 40 S&W bullets sized at .402” unless the customer special orders a .401”.
40’s and 9mm’s like to be cast from fairly hard alloy. 2/6 BHN #15 alloy or similar. Not saying nothing else, like air cooled WW, will work but It’s easier and more one size fits all with a hard cast bullet. That said 2/7 alloy has it’s own issues. Those would be your BHN #18 bullets. Someone mentioned the antimony wash theory back a page or so.

Reason for the .402” bullets is most gaming pistols are fired ten to twenty thousand rounds a year. Bores may start life at .400 + a couple tenths. After they get smooth in lets say 3K rounds they will be .4005 to .4010” already. By the time they get 12K rounds on them half way through a season they may start to lead on a .401” bullet. .402” bullets will shoot from the day they come out of there box to about 25K rounds. Am sure it will happen sometime but so far no one has run into an issue chambering a .402” bullet in the 40 S&W’s.

Lastly there’s the hard lube issue. I’m not fond of it and I’ll leave it at that. In fact the reason I started casting my own revolver bullets back when was all I could buy was hard lube bullets that did not work. If I had some hard lubed bullets laying around I’d tumble them in LLA or JPW then shoot them.

[thx997303]

PSI vs CUP and when? For a bunch of yrs they have been the same now.

Seems I got some bad information. Stupid interwebz. :groner:

Anyway, that just strengthens my position.

[shootingbuff]

Seems I got some bad information. Stupid interwebz. :groner:

Anyway, that just strengthens my position.

No problem on my end. It is hard to keep up with everything that goes on in the shooting industry.