Gun Safes

[dale2242]

After all these years I am considering a gun safe.
Any comments on value and security?
Which brand do you own? Likes and dislikes?

dale

[Tom-ADC]

I have two American Security safes, I like them, best advice I can give you is figure out the max size you think you'll need and buy the next size up.

[cajun shooter]

I have a Liberty Safe and it is a nice one with what I thought was plenty of room. It is a 10 long gun safe with 5 shelves for handguns and other items.As has been pointed out buy one bigger than needed. My wife puts our important papers, jewelry and other items when we go out of town. Make sure you buy one with a good fire rating.

[Cherokee]

Mine were locally made. Get the biggest you can with a light inside it. As said, keep important papers in there too.

[Mk42gunner]

I like Mosler safes, but I heard a rumor they went out of business.

I also like Sargent & Greenleaf mechanical locks, I don't really like the electronic ones.

If you have room, consider building a vault. Lots more room than a safe.

Robert

[alamogunr]

I have two American Security safes, I like them, best advice I can give you is figure out the max size you think you'll need and buy the next size up.

Go up 2 sizes. I only went up one size and now I need a second safe.

John
W.TN

[Char-Gar]

Mosler safe was folded in Brown Safe Company. They offer two lines of gun safes as well as many other types. The offer same line of safe for the home and for industrial/police/military. The latter cost much less than the former due to lack of decoration, but otherwise the same safes. They have a web site. They offer some gun safe's much bigger than those by Ft. Knox, Cannon and other better known makers.

[RP]

Something else to keep in mind is that a 40 gun safe will not hold 40 long guns with they are wearing scopes figure a long gun with a scope takes up two spots. And a turn table in safes works for some I hear never had one of those. I also use plate racks on my top shelf to hold my pistols which saves alot of space.

[fecmech]

I think fire rating of the safe should be one of the prime considerations and locating it in the basement if you have one again for fire consideration. A lot of "Gun" safes are not really that secure from a theft standpoint, you can cut right through the side of them with a carbide or diamond masonry blade. There were a number of discussions over on the High Road about this topic and some very enlightening points brought up. If you are contemplating a purchase a search over there might be helpful.

[deltaenterprizes]

Make sure you bolt it to the floor. There is a video on Utube showing two guys with pry bars opening a "gun safe" in 15 mins.
A lot of "safes" are "residential security containers" that do not the UL Standard for safes. A UL safe has a sticker on it that states it is UL approved.
Like the poster above said the sides, back and top are the weak spots if they are only aprox 1/8'' thick.
It only took me 30 mins to break into mine after Katrina because the lock was frozen. All I had to do is drill a 1/4'' hole in the right place.
All that being said, anything to slow down the local crack heads and kids from getting your stuff is better than nothing.

[JIMinPHX]

Good advice has been given about selecting the size, so I will stay out of that part of the conversation.

About fire protection:
The fire rating that you want, varies with your fire risk. If you live in a wood house, then you need a good fire rating. If you live in a brick house with little to burn, than the fire rating is less important. If you live in a particularly damp environment, then you need to be careful to keep a fire rated safe dry. You need to change the desiccant pack regularly or else get an electric goldenrod. Otherwise the refractory cement inside the body of the safe (the stuff that provides the fire protection) will swell up as it absorbs moisture & the door will not be able to close anymore.

About theft protection:
Most of the fire rated boxes are not very strong in the theft deterrent category. There are exceptions. Most of the fire proof boxes are made of either two pieces of sheet metal with refractory cement between them or else some "proprietary composite". You can usually get throw either one of them with an ax & a little determination. Some of the better fireproof boxes also have some genuine steel plate inside them. I forget all the letter ratings, but I think that "C" is where it starts to get real. "B" will usually stop a smash & grab criminal, but not someone that has a few minutes & a little talent. Above the letter ratings, are the bank vault ratings. These are actually insurance categories that insurance companies use in conjunction with the average police response time to an alarm in your area. TL-15 means that a skilled safe opener with proper tools & knowledge of that model of safe will need 15 minutes to get inside. Hence, your insurance company will insure cash & other liquid valuables inside that box if you are within 15 minutes of the cop shop. A TL-15 is a whole lot tougher than a class "C". There is also TL-30, which should be self explanatory at this point. A TL-30 box is usually about 1.5-2" thick plate with some rather high end structural features. The TL class boxes are NOT cheap.

When you look at a safe, you need to look at the whole thing. Some salesman is probably going to point out how many big diameter locking lugs a safe door has & claim that this makes it super strong & impenetrable. The lock up does matter, but so does the door & the back box, if it is going to be accessible.

A lot of the less expensive safes are made with less strong back boxes. These safes are only intended to be installed in areas where there is no access to the box itself. I find that it is often cost effective to buy this type of box & then pour several bags of concrete around it to sturdy things up.

The door is the most common point of attempted forced entry & that is usually where most people invest the real money. If you have a 3/8" plate & some fire protection in the door, that's pretty good for a gun safe. Most gun safe doors are not that good, but a few are.

The big question is how good is good enough? You need to match the money that you spend to the quality of the threat that you are protecting against & the value of the items you are protecting. You don't want to spend $5,000 to protect $1,000. That just makes no sense.

At the very low end is the Stak-On box. These things are sheet metal & more of a locker than a safe, but they are cheap & they are even California Compliant for legal protection. The next step up is the $400 box that you can get at Home Depot. It's a little better, but you had better bolt it down good & hope that the thieves don't have some time & tools at their disposal. Also, there is no fire protection. If you double that price, you can start to look at some of the fire resistant boxes. Make sure that you rap on them with your fist & listen for hollow noises. That will tell you just how wimpy these things really are, despite their shiny paint job & many large locking bolts. When you start looking at the stuff that is over $1,500, you might start to find something that would slow down the average big city thief or suburban career criminal. That's slow him down, not stop him, especially if he is making a return visit after having already broken in the first time & seen what you have for a box.

I could spend about 6 or 8 paragraphs describing the locks & bolt-werks that are available, but I'm just going to say that most of the locks you get on safes are at least as good as the box that they put them on & I'll leave it at that.

About Location:
Where you locate the safe makes a big difference too. If you are in an area that doesn't flood, then the most secure location is usually to cut a hole in the basement floor, sink a top-door box in the hole & pour fresh concrete around it with rebar. This is good protection against both fire & theft, but it is not good for easy access & it is hard to keep clean.

Most people settle for the compromise of locating the box around a corner in a closet. User access is pretty good & tool access to the box requires ripping out the wall, which is the minimum amount of work that you want a thief to do before being able to run off with any of your stuff.

More motivated & creative people sometimes recess the box into an existing wall, build a false bulkhead or reroute a hallway to create a dead space in the wall between two rooms. Some other people just sit them in the garage & call it good. Like I said before, it all depends on who you need to protect against. A guy living in Detroit probably has different security needs than a guy living in the Ozarks.

If the box weighs less than 2,000 pounds, then you want to bolt it down real good, or, if you are a member of this board, store most of your lead ingots in the bottom of it.;-)

[August]

I got a Fort Knox and have been happy with it, but wouldn't buy one today because the local dealer is very proud of them.

I was at Cabelas the other day and their safes are top notch and really inexpensive compared to other brands. Strongly recommend you go to one of their stores and look at the product line. Most of the better ones are American made by Liberty, I think.

My experience with a safe is that you run out of room very quickly. In particular, a lever rifle with no scope is ONE gun, and a shotgun is ONE gun, a bolt gun is ONE AND ONE HALF GUNS without scope, an AR type rifle is TWO GUNS at least, and a scoped bolt gun with bipod is THREE GUNS. At least that's the way it has worked out for me.

I am presently shopping for safe number three -- sadly.

[c3d4b2]

I ran across this when looking at safes. Do not know if it will help or not?

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

[deltaenterprizes]

Excellent article!

[John Guedry]

I have a Heritage safe, made in Idaho U.S.A.

[ReloaderFred]

As noted, get the largest safe you never think you'll need. When I built my last house, I built a walk in safe into it. Sure miss that walk in, but couldn't take it with me when I escaped Calif.

Now I have the largest safe Browning makes, plus a Cannon Wide Body (from Costco), an American Security safe, plus a smaller Sentry safe. If I buy two more guns, I'll have to buy another safe, and I really don't have room for a 5th one!

They fill up quick and you never know when you're going to need to lock up more stuff. I've stumbled onto several "going out of marraige" sales, aka divorces, and several "going out of life" sales, aka estate sales, where the prices were just too good to pass up. At one estate sale, I walked away with 5 guns for the money I expected would have purchased 2, and they set the prices, not me.

For the price of a medium price rifle or shotgun, you can buy a pretty good safe. The peace of mind is worth that much. If you watch the Costco online ads, they will often have a pretty good safe for $599 to $799, delivered to your door. When I bought the Cannon last year, the driver put it in my garage for me and when I told him how much I paid for it, he called Costco and ordered one for himself, plus two other friends of mine ordered them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[acemedic13]

I have a patriot 32 gun safe. It has a 90 minute burn rate. It has a bunch of other features to prevent drilling and cutting. I wont run to deep into that here. When they say "32" guns, they were mistaken though. It has 32 rack positions for rifles, but once 15 rifles are in there, there is very little room for much else.I have a bunch of shelves that can be configured anyway I need them. I made one big pistol shelf on top, and several on the far side for papers and other stuff.

They discontinued that model though....too expensive to keep sales moving on it. So I got it at a great price. Just a few things on the topic. Hope it helps

[alamogunr]

I have a Heritage safe also. The only "name" brand with a dealer close by. Heritage uses its internal hinges as a selling point. I did not base my decision on that. In retrospect, I might have looked at a safe with external hinges. The internal hinges require that you keep contents away from the area where the hinges must swing. If you think about it, even if bad guys defeat the external hinges(unlikely), the door bolts will keep the door in place.

Thanks for the tip about Costco. I'm not close to one of their stores but both my sons are not too far. Not a member, but if the deal is good enough I might purchase a membership.

I'm thinking about a smaller safe just for handguns and rearrange the large safe for all long guns.

John
W.TN

[454PB]

Put a few bricks of primers in whatever safe you buy. This $300 tool will allow access to nearly any safe, but the primers will ensure the thief is properly marked.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?

[ole 5 hole group]

The only advice I can give is save your money and get a good one unless you’re just looking for one to keep your kids away from your firearms. I’ve got the American Security and went with the largest BF series. It will cost a couple grand for a good one when it’s all said and done, as you’ve got to figure in installation. Moving close to a ton of weight down steps isn’t easy and it could cost a little more than you might expect. Another thing to consider is most gun safes aren’t waterproof, so if a flood is imminent, you have to secure the holes in the floor for sure. None seem to hold even half of the guns they advise it’ll hold, so get the biggest one they have, as you will fill it up with something easy enough.

[DesertRat]

After a lot of researching I went with a Sturdy Safe. The biggest problem was finding an area of my house that could handle the weight.