Ramblings of a mad man

[Silent]

My ignorance will be blaring out in this post I'm sure, but I would like to make sure my choices are correct before spending the money.

First a bit of history. What I'm shooting is a Star M-43 Firestar 9mm pistol that I've had for almost 20 years now. I bought it new in '91 while serving in the Marines down at Camp Pendleton. I've always fed it 115 Grs. FMJ. I'm not sure where the information came from, probably the shop I bought it from, but I believe that I can only run ball ammo since the load ramp is so steep and short. I'm to cheap to go buy a box of hollow point ammo just to test it and find out I can't shoot it in anything that I own. If someone has info on what else this pistol can shoot, please chime in.

I also have a Marlin 30-30 lever action that I plan on shooting out at the range a lot more that I've had almost 20 years as well. I plan on reloading for the 30-30. I got in on the group buy for the re-run of the 311-165gr GCRF (2 GC, 2 plain so I can go either way).

I plan on casting my own .454 round balls for my .44 black powder revolvers when my current supply runs out. Since I'm going to cast both .454 and 30-30, I might as well cast for the 9mm. There are a few areas where I'm a bit fuzzy.

The only thing I find in a Lee mold that is comparable is 356-125-2R. That is 125 Grs, not the 115 Grs that I've been shooting, tho the profile of the round is the same as the PMC's I've been using. I just miked my bore on the 9mm, and I come up with a .357 major diameter with .349 rifling. The rounds I've been shooting mike in at .355, so I'm guessing the .356 mold would be acceptable.

My plan is to pick up a single stage press and dies for both the 30-30 and the 9mm, and go from there. My shooting is limited to once a week, so I have the time to spare to use a single stage and save some $$. I'll probably go with Lee, or possibly RCBS. It seems that people like the Unique powder for pistols, and 3031 seems to work well for the 30-30, so those are on my list to try out first. I'm open to different loads and powders. If I can run the same powder in both, then all the better. Are all brass shells re loadable in 30-30 and 9mm? I've been told that I can't use the aluminum or steel casings again.

I have some pure lead that just came in today, and some 63/37 tin/lead to stiffen it up a bit if needed I don't have any antimony tho. If need be, I will spend the money to by the Lyman #2 from Rotometals just to make sure I have a decent alloy to work from. I'm assuming that the #2 will work well for both the 9mm and the 30-30. Ohh, and wheel weights are about out of the question around here, I bask in the political correctness that is California.

Since my main concern is with the 9mm mold, and the associated metals, I figured this is the best place to post up. Not really sure where the questions are back there, but there's lots of em buried in this post. I'm open to advise, helpful nudges, stories, DON'T DO THAT!s and what not.

Howdy folks! [smilie=w:

[docone31]

That Lee mold is the one I use.
I size it to .357, and it is flawless in my Star. No jams. I pan lube, with my receipe.
In time, you will get the progressive press. Meantime, you can get the hand press, or Classic press. Both are great. I use my classic press for sizeing, and 30-06. I have used my hand press for the -06 but the classic bolts to my table.
Melt the lead in a pot seperate from the melt pot you will be casting from. Make sure of that. It keeps the crud out.
I use the Lee 20lb bottom pour without incident. So far so good, and that is a while.
With the Lee molds, heat them up! I put Kitty Litter on my melt, and set the mold to heat a bit, then cast. If it wrinkles, heat it some more.
I water drop everything.
With Lee molds, I soak them in mineral spirits, first time, for two days. Cleans them out real well.
From there, a BIC lighter is used for smoking the mold, nothing else. The best thing is to get some examples, and we can help diagnose it.
Good luck, Good casting.

[runfiverun]

i'd go for 358 in the 9mm and don't go with the lee tumble lube design.
you can use unique in the 9 and the 30-30 to good affect.
if it were me and i had to buy alloy it's be #2 [5/5/90] and pure then find a good mix of the two.
50-50 would be a easy to pour alloy and be hard enough for both guns with unique.

[Silent]

Thanks for the info! I have the Lee Pro 4 20lb furnace in 110 that I will be working from. My lead is clean, but my tin/lead will have to be pre cleaned as suggested, there's a lot of crud on it. I was thinking about either an old cast iron pot, or possibly a cheap dutch oven.

I've heard that water dropping increases the hardness of the round, and I can't see how that could be a bad thing. For the bullets (boolits?), I'll take the advise and water drop em, but for the .44's they need to be as soft as possible, so there going to have to air cool I think.

[Silent]

i'd go for 358 in the 9mm and don't go with the lee tumble lube design.
you can use unique in the 9 and the 30-30 to good affect.
if it were me and i had to buy alloy it's be #2 [5/5/90] and pure then find a good mix of the two.
50-50 would be a easy to pour alloy and be hard enough for both guns with unique.

You'll have to bear with me, I'm new to all this alloying.

If I'm seeing this correctly, the final alloy would be something like 2.5/2.5/95 as a 50/50 mix of pure lead and #2?

Would it be possible to use tin instead of antimony for something like a 10/90 mix? That's something I could mix here out of existing materials (60/40+pure on hand) or should I just bite the bullet STS and buy some antimony?

[Doby45]

More than 2% tin is a waste. Tin in and of itself is not a "hardener" it helps the lead fill out the mold better. You need more antimony to actually harden the alloy. Add a little lino to harden.

[454PB]

For 9mm, I like a fairly hard alloy.....nothing below about 12 BHN. I size .357" for all my 9mm (I own 4 of them).

Water dropping won't work without some antimony. You can buy an alloy from Rotometals, or scrounge some wheelweights for the antimony.

[RobS]

More than 2% tin is a waste. Tin in and of itself is not a "hardener" it helps the lead fill out the mold better. You need more antimony to actually harden the alloy. Add a little lino to harden.

Tin does harden lead just not at the extent that antimony does. Tin is also not as cheap either and for this very reason many use it only to help with fill out.

Alloy---------------BHN
Straight Lead = 5
1 to 40 tin lead = 8
1 to 30 tin lead = 9
1 to 20 tin lead = 10
1 to 10 tin lead = 11

[Doby45]

Thats why I said it is not in and of itself a "hardener", does it harden any at all, sure. But, it is not enough to justify the cost. You can find lino in the SS section much cheaper than tin.

[RobS]

yep, that is correct just clarifying for a newbie

[Silent]

I'm about as new as ya get :)

My source of 60/40 is free to me (and fairly rare), that's the only reason I can toss in more tin for less money. I'll melt what I have this weekend and see how many pounds of clean I have. I'm guessing about 15-20 pounds. I've been pouring over the stats on Rotometals alloys trying to make sense of things. They say that their lead/antimony mixture melts around 550f. Lead is about 600f, and antimony is something in the range of 1100f. How could that mixture melt at 550f? My pot only goes to 900, so it looks like I'll have to use lino to get antimony into my mixes, or buy ready mixed. I'm starting to get the drift of things I think.

[bruce381]

I would add regarding the 30-30 I would trim the cases to same size length and use a very light crimp if too much crimp the neck will crush and they will not chamber. The 30-30 case is thin so crimp easy with the same lenght that helps.

[RobS]

Silent:

Here is a good link to read up on casting and alloys.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

[nicholst55]

I'd recommend hanging onto that 60/40 mix; you'll really gain very little casting for smokeless powder loads by going over about 2-3% tin. Rotometals, for instance, charges very nearly the same price for linotype as they do for nearly any other alloy; same thing with their 'super-hard' alloy. I'd consider buying a small quantity of one of those, and mixing it with my current alloy in order to end up with something approximating either Lyman #2 or hardball alloy.

That high-tin alloy (solder?) you're getting may be free today, but what about tomorrow? I'd save some for the future if it were me.

[XWrench3]

as far as adding antimony to the lead alloy goes, you will need to find an alloy of some type that already has antimony in it. you will never get your laed to a high enough temp to melt in antimony. most of the cases you encounter will be brass and boxer primed, which means reloadable. i have reloaded both aluminum and steel casings as well. with the alumium ones, you have to keep the load fairly mild or the cases will crack the first or second time you load them. something that is just above what it takes to cycle the slide works. i have reloaded the alumium cases that way between 3 and 8 times before they crack. as for the steel cases, they are a little more work. first, they have to be CLEAN! as they are a lot harder, and if there is dirt on the case when you size it, it may very well scratch your dies. second, they will need more or better lube than a standard case. you do not want to stick one of these. whatevery you end up with for cases, look at all of them, and make certain they are not berdan primed. they are not worth the headache for the guns you have. usually, the berdan primed shell casings come from europe or russia.. i think everything made in the usa has boxer primers. yes, you can load your 30-30 with pistol powder. you have to keep the amounts down around what a pistol shoots though. you can NOT fill the case to get higher velocities! you will explode the gun! check this site for reduced loads for your 30-30. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[mdi]

http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Lymans+4Cast+bullet+handbook&x=16&y=16

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm (go to column on left side and click on "book".)

Most info you'll need is located on this site and in these manuals. I prefer to have something in front of me to study, as a book, when trying a new hobby/job. Also, in forums you'll get as many opinions as facts, so be wary. Read the books for a good "base" in casting and K.I.S.S. Lee bullet casting products have worked for me for 8 or ten years, especially the tumble lube/alox type. I now have molds by Lee (5), Lyman (2), RCBS (1), and Ideal (1).

Don't get discouraged when casting for the 9mm as I've read a bunch of posts on problems casting/loading for the 9mm. Sometimes it takes a while, but it can be done.

Casting is in itself another hobby for me and it's very rewarding and fun. I find my self scrounging for lead and looking for "stuff" at yard sales and thrift shops! Just the other day I found a corn muffin pan (aka ingot mold) in a thrift store for $1.00.

Be safe, go slow, and enjoy!:cbpour:

Edit: +1 on Echo's recommendation to read stickys. Lots of sticky/info in all the forums (you'll also need to know some about lubes).

[Echo]

Yo, Silent;

My advice is worth exactly what you are paying for it!

First - I advise sizing cast boolits (for autoloaders) as big as will reliably chamber - the bbl will size them down to the exactly correct size. Sizing your boolits to .356 will guarantee leading.

Second - I second what has been said about Sn. We REALLY need it for our alloy, just not much. Two % is generally enough, and anything over 3% is definitely wasteful.

Third - I also second what has been said about Lee TL molds. Some folks have good luck with them - I have never owned one, nor do I intend to ever own one. I have used Mule Snot (LLA) successfully with a certain small 38 boolit, so for low intensity loads, I believe in it's utility. For 9mm, maybe not.

Fourth - many folks here (myself included) recommend WW's + 2%Sn for danged near everything. You may find that water dropping, or heat-treating, may be necessary, but I will allow others who have more experience w/9mm's to chime in on that.

Fifth - and last - I strongly recommend you go through ALL the stickies on this site. There is more info here than anywhere else, and the friendly help you will get will prove it.

But. YMMV.

[Wayne Smith]

If you have .359" groove measure on your FireStar and if this is a reliable measure you will need .359-.361" boolit to prevent gas cutting along the grooves. I would question if you can chamber a boolit this big. I would very carefully measure that barrel and chamber, perhaps even doing a chamber cast, before I invested very much in trying to cast for it.

For the .44 C&B you will be using pure lead. You can water drop that to your heart's content, it won't harden. Just cool faster! Save most of your pure for this use unless you have an ongoing source of pure.

[David2011]

Silent,

Welcome to casting! Without antimony it won't do any good to drop the boolits in water. They just get wet. You can melt some Rotometals Super Hard Alloy- 70% Pb, 30% Sb, into your other metals. Having the antimony already alloyed with some lead makes it far easier to get it alloyed with your metals. Alone it melts at 1167 degrees. It's not terribly expensive in the proportions you need. Like the others said, excess tin won't gain anything for you. Commercial boolit casting metal is often 92% Pb, 6% Sb, 2% Sn. Lyman #2 is 90% Pb, 5% Sn, 5% Sb.

That's why those of us in the rest of the states like to start with wheelweights.

David

[Silent]

I feel like my brain is melting from information overload.

I think I'll go with the Rotometals Hardball alloy. It has 6% antimony, and I have both tin and lead if I feel the need to change the alloy. That and it's only $.10 a pound more than base lead. Still way cheaper than buying precast FMJ rounds.

The Firestar is only .357 in the grooves. Is leading really a problem in a 2.5" barrel? Would I just lower the hardness of the bullet by upping the lead to allow more deformation if leading does occur?

My original intention was to stay near factory loads so I know things will work. What is the advantage of light loading the 9mm or the 30-30?

And the rambling continues :) (and so does the stickie reading!)

[9.3X62AL]

The best way to view cast boolit reloading for the 9mm is to consider it a RIFLE, and not a handgun. High pressures, fast twist rates, and varying internal dimensions between examples. Yep, they're rifles, all right. :)

If you've slugged the grooves at .357", OK. Now slug the THROAT and see if it is any bigger than the grooves. If so, size boolits to THROAT diameter, and use an expander spud large enough so that case mouths don't reduce boolit diameters during seating. .355" spuds work well with my .357" boolits in my three 9mm pistols.

Antimony is your friend in 9mm. Not only does it harden the alloy, its hardening effect also makes the boolit noses slicker when working their way up a feedramp.

DO NOT over-do the taper crimping bit with any cast boolit cartridge. DO NOT taper crimp while seating a boolit--do the two operations as discrete steps. All that is needed is to turn in the case mouth flare--THAT'S IT. MONGO taper-crimping creates more leaded bores than any other single source, apart from undersized boolits.

[Silent]

I'm guessing that I'm using the wrong terms to describe the barrel on the 9mm. If I were to use a pin, it would be .349 that would drop in. if the rifling was removed to make a smoothbore it would be. 357 I used a teloscoping gauge and a micrometer to make. the measurements.

[turbo1889]

For me personally the 9mm cartridge had one of the steepest learning curves for shooting hand-cast boolits. Pointers I would give as a result include:

1 ~ Shoot as cast from the mold without sizing down the boolit if at all possible (Will the finished cartridge fit the chamber). If you do have to size them down to fit your chamber then only size them down as much as you absolutely have too. As far as "shooting as cast, no sizing" if you go the lubra-sizer route instead of the tumble lube route for your lube that means using an oversize sizing die (0.359" is usually a good place to start) so that the boolit just slips inside to get lubed without being squeezed at all by the die.

2 ~ DO NOT USE THE LEE "CARBIDE FACTORY CRIMP DIE" for this cartridge under any circumstances except for possibly if you remove the carbide ring from said die with a hydraulic press. Instead use two regular boolit seating/crimp dies with the first one set to just seat the boolit without crimping and the second one set to lightly crimp with the boolit with the seating punch backed off so as not to touch the nose of the already seated boolit. I load with a turret press - if you are loading with a single stage press using the batch method obviously you can use the same seating/crimp die and just re-adjust it for the second step.

The hard alloy water quench dropped with antimony content has already been brought up by multiple other posters. Other than that, along with my two pointers above it is a matter of tweaking the load to what your gun likes. With cast boolits guns take on unique personalities. You can take two guns from the same manufacture with consecutive serial numbers and take two very different loads (boolit mold used, powder type & charge weight, lube type, etc.) and one gun with love one load and hate the other and the other gun will have the exact opposite preference. It is weird but true.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm guessing that I'm using the wrong terms to describe the barrel on the 9mm. If I were to use a pin, it would be .349 that would drop in. if the rifling was removed to make a smoothbore it would be. 357 I used a teloscoping gauge and a micrometer to make. the measurements.

Your terminology is fine, sir. You have a very typical 9mm barrel profile--2 of mine are identical to yours, .357" grooves x .349" lands. Throats are both .357", too. MOST 9mm barrels are larger than the "nominal" .355" groove diameter specified by SAAMI.

[runfiverun]

there is some excellent advise in this thread.
except you can alloy antimony in at normal temps.
iv'e done it at 600*.

[Wayne Smith]

there is some excellent advise in this thread.
except you can alloy antimony in at normal temps.
iv'e done it at 600*.

Right. And you can get full instructions on how to do it from The Antimony Man.

This thread may make it to sticky status on the title alone!

[blackthorn]

Good morning Silent.

In post #1 you said: “I just miked my bore on the 9mm, and I come up with a .357 major diameter with .349 rifling. The rounds I've been shooting mike in at .355, so I'm guessing the .356 mold would be acceptable”.

Further along you said: “I'm guessing that I'm using the wrong terms to describe the barrel on the 9mm. If I were to use a pin, it would be .349 that would drop in. if the rifling was removed to make a smoothbore it would be. 357 I used a teloscoping gauge and a micrometer to make. the measurements.”

In post #20 you clarified that: “The Firestar is only .357 in the grooves. Is leading really a problem in a 2.5" barrel? Would I just lower the hardness of the bullet by upping the lead to allow more deformation if leading does occur?”

“Echo” in #17 said: “First - I advise sizing cast boolits (for autoloaders) as big as will reliably chamber - the bbl will size them down to the exactly correct size. Sizing your boolits to .356 will guarantee leading.”

In post #21 “9.3x62AL” advised you to treat your 9mm the same as a rifle and said: “If you've slugged the grooves at .357", OK. Now slug the THROAT and see if it is any bigger than the grooves. If so, size boolits to THROAT diameter, and use an expander spud large enough so that case mouths don't reduce boolit diameters during seating. .355" spuds work well with my .357" boolits in my three 9mm pistols.”

NOW, I may be wrong, but from reading your posts and the replies, it seems to me that you may be missing a point here. The point is that if your bullet is of a smaller diameter than the largest measured diameter of your bore, your gun is going to lead! That is why you have been advised to size your bullets to be slightly bigger than the gun’s throat. If there is any gap between the edges of the bullet’s base and the major dimension of your bore, powder gases stream by and cut bits of lead off the bullet’s base which are then deposited on the interior surfaces of your barrel!

If I am mistaken and you already understood all this just ignore the above. Have a great day!

[theperfessor]

My Hi Power has about the same barrel dimensions as yours. I size my bullets to .358 and have no leading or chambering problems.

[Springfield]

Silent: I live in San Jose and I would be glad to trade you some of your 60/40 for some linotype to harden up your lead. Also if you need to alloy some lead and don't have a set-up for it I have an extra turkey fryer and pot you can use. Or if you just want to come by and discuss casting in general I am usually here. 408 356-5031

[Crash_Corrigan]

+1 on what theperfessor posted. I also have a Browning Hi Power ('85 vintage) made in Belguium and assembled there also. It jams up if I use .356 dia lead boolits. Works great with .358. Loaded over 4.8 gr or so of Unique it get a reliable round that always functions and gives me acceptable accuracy at 20 yds.

Every gun is different and mine love straight ww's, water quenched 130 gr HP boolits loaded carfully have given me many hours of quality range time without having to to mess around. Watch your OAL carfully as this tiny cartridge will allow pressures to build up to a dangerous level if you let your dies get clogged with mule snot and shorten the OAL.

Get a case gauge and check every 20th round or so to make sure that your OAL does not change. I need to pull the guts on my Dillon dies and clean them out every 300 or so rounds as I use mule snot and JPW for lube and it will clog the seating dies some.

[Larry Gibson]

Silent

Lots of good advise here but I would suggest you spring for a Lyman Cast bullet Handbook and read the instructions and articles thoroughly. It will answer many of your questions and give you a basic education on cast bullets, the casting of them, alloys, and loading. The data load data will also be useful to you down the road. If you have any used book stores you can sometimes find a copy there for a decent price but a new one is not all that expensive considering the information you get.

Larry Gibson

[Silent]

The point is that if your bullet is of a smaller diameter than the largest measured diameter of your bore, your gun is going to lead! That is why you have been advised to size your bullets to be slightly bigger than the gun’s throat. If there is any gap between the edges of the bullet’s base and the major dimension of your bore, powder gases stream by and cut bits of lead off the bullet’s base which are then deposited on the interior surfaces of your barrel!

I don't know a whole lot about ballistics past pop in a cartridge and fire. This is the stuff I'm trying to learn. The folks here have already saved me a bunch of coin :) From what I've read, I was left with the impression that the deformation at the back of the bullet sealed off the reaming .001-.002 apparently this is incorrect. I'm guessing the FMJ copper jacket isn't susceptible to leading, which would explain why the .355 FMJ's I've been using leave me with a fairly clean bore.


My Hi Power has about the same barrel dimensions as yours. I size my bullets to .358 and have no leading or chambering problems.

That seems to be the consensus of the thread, I'll start looking for a .358 mold for the 9mm. I'm hoping to find one with the proper rounding so it will chamber properly.


Silent: I live in San Jose and I would be glad to trade you some of your 60/40 for some linotype to harden up your lead. Also if you need to alloy some lead and don't have a set-up for it I have an extra turkey fryer and pot you can use. Or if you just want to come by and discuss casting in general I am usually here. 408 ###-####

Be warned, I may take you up on that! I'm down by 880/101. I use to cast lead miniatures out of a lead alloy, so I do have basic casting ability's. I just melted down the 60/40 and my lead pig and made ingots. I also broke in my .454 mold and made about 100 good rounds. I figure I threw maybe 10% back for cold molding and only 1 incomplete fillout, the rest look good enough to shoot to me. I'm more of a hands on learner than a text book learner.

[Silent]

I would suggest you spring for a Lyman Cast bullet Handbook and read the instructions and articles thoroughly.

I needed a good use for my Barns and Noble card, I think I found one! I'll look for something on basic reloading too, since I don't know a lot about that either. Can't be to much different than building a round in a black powder pistol cylinder.

Tons of good info, and good people on this site, I'm glad to be here :drinks:

[9.3X62AL]

The 9mm is not a "beginner caliber" for either the reloader or the boolit caster.

You surmise correctly that the undersized jacketed bullets are less effected by dimensional variance than are castings. As explained above, the softer cast boolits allow high-pressure gas to escape past the boolit sidewall, and these act like a cutting torch, blowing lead particles ahead of the boolit that get "ironed" onto the bore surface by the passage of the boolit over same. With jacketed bullets, that tendency is largely avoided--although copper-fouling does occur.

I did an interesting experiment a few years back with Hornady 125 XTP bullets meant for the 357 Magnum. These mic at .357" rather than at .355" like most 9mm jacketed bullets. The two pistols I mentioned in a prior post were employed in this test--SIG-Sauers, a P-226 and a P-228. Both of these pistols had a real taste for Speer Gold Dot 124 grain JHPs, which run .355".

I worked up the powder load (7.5 grains of Blue Dot) used in the Gold Dot with the XTP .357 bullets. Same cases (R-P), same primers (WSP), same seating depth. Chronography showed mean velocities to be within 15 FPS between the loads in both pistols. Feeding was flawless.

On paper, the .357" bullets shot significantly better in both pistols than did the nominal 9mm Gold Dots. That's 50 rounds of each load in each pistol, and the group sizes averaged 15%-20% smaller with the .357" bullets.

Similar things happen when aftermarket barrels get fitted into 9mm pistols. These barrels have correct dimensions--.355" grooves. Use of even cheap WWB loads shows significant accuracy improvement and better ballistic integrity over that found in OEM barrels.

The short answer--SIZE MATTERS. A LOT.

[MtGun44]

Nothing harder than air cooled wheel wts is necessary for 9mm. Do not size to smaller than
groove diam, equal or .001-.002 larger is where you want to be. Lee 356-124TC std lube groove,
not TL, is highly recommended, feeds perfectly in many 9mms.

Do not get wrapped around the axle on alloy, just use wheel wts or something close to that,
no need for fiddly hassle of water dropping. Use a conventional design, LARGE enough and
a reasonable load and you will be just fine.

As said, if you don't have powder yet, Unique will work well for both .30-30 midrange loads
and in the 9mm.

Start simple, don't get overloaded. If you do what I have recommended, you will be just fine
at the start. Do the alloying and other more advanced stuff later if you want to or need to,
they are not necessary most of the time. This is not rocket science and you have a high
probability of success if you start simple.

Bill

[Silent]

Lee 356-124TC std lube groove,
not TL, is highly recommended, feeds perfectly in many 9mms.


That's the mold I was considering in the first post. Many have said in this thread that it won't work because it's to small and that I should find a .358 mold instead. My 9mm likes 115 grain factory ammo, and I can't find anything in the 115-125 grain range in .358. I'm about ready to just pass on the whole idea and just stick to round balls.

[9.3X62AL]

That's my go-to mould for the 9mm, too. In 92/6/2, they fall out at .3585"-.359", and clean up completely in a .357" sizer.

All things excellent can be both rare and difficult. 9mm ammo for less than the price of 22 rimfire that shoots well is a worthwhile endeavor. My earlier point was only that the 9mm isn't as easy to make accurate and tractable as a 38 Special. It isn't rocket science, either.

[Silent]

My ignorance leads to frustration. I wasn't aware that the molded rounds were larger than advertised. O thought that the size was what they dropped out as.

[montana_charlie]

I wasn't aware that the molded rounds were larger than advertised.
Silent,
If you had ever been shopping for a custom mould, you would run into the kind of specs where the maker says a mould will drop the cast bullet at (say) .357" -.000" to +.003"...or something to that effect.
In other words, the ".357" is the nominal size to be expected in the bullet, but the mould will (usually) throw up to 'a few' thousandths larger.

Of course, the custom mould maker CAN get his tolerance down even closer, and that's why he can charge a premium price.

Off the shelf moulds will 'usually' follow a similar pattern. It's just that mass producers are able to fudge a bit more with the finished dimension.
Cherry cut moulds from mass producers sometimes get pretty small as the manufacturer tries to get the most out of each cherry. But lathe bored moulds (and I think Lee is included) are less prone to coming out at minimum size.

So, you pretty well have to depend on the buying public to keep you informed about production mould sizes. If Lyman (for instance) enters a period where their moulds are getting 'little', customers such as 'us' will start comparing notes to see if it's a trend to be watchful of.

If those who use them say Lee moulds throw two thousandths over...you can feel fairly safe when you order your own.

If 'fairly safe' doesn't float your boat, look into a custom mould. You may pay more than you currently plan...but you'll be happy with the product.

CM

[theperfessor]

I've been using two bullets in my Hi Power One is an out-of-production Lyman mold, a 358480. It drops a a SWC that weighs around 136 grs, This mold may be hard to find.

The other is a Lee 358-125 RNFP. With a $40 six cavity mold you can drop a lot of good bullets in a hurry. I use 7.0 gr of Blue Dot with both in 9mm. Usually use ACWWs or ACWWs plus a little 50/50 solder, no leading.

The Lee bullet is also a good slug for .38 and .357.

[Silent]

I'm a machinist by trade, tho I'm not a mold maker by any means. Nor have I never had to shop for a custom mold. My pops was a mold maker, and I know how much he put into making them. He'd smack the power head on the surface grinder and take another pass. You could hear the cut change, and see the sparks change ever so slightly.

I'm learning more and more every day. Since 9.3X62AL has confirmed that the Lee mold I was looking at will drop in the .358+ range with the Rotometals Hardball alloy, and that seems to be the consensus for size, I'll order one up. I wasn't able to find anything in the shape/weight range I wanted in a .358 mold. I'll run the rounds through a .357 sizing die after they are cast, or would a .358 resizing die be better since it's +.001 over the groove size?

I did find some interesting reading over at the Lyman site, probably old hat to all you pro's out there, but it enlightened me a bit Lyman reloading tips (http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/presses-and-kits/pdf/IntroToReloading.pdf) kinda takes the mystery out of reloading, and gives good explanations of the steps.

I'm looking into getting a single stage press and dies. I might trade off some of that 60/40 for some of the stuff I need. I melted down the anode and I came up with 35lb of 63/37 tin/lead, this stuffs going for $8.99 a pound at Rotometals ATM.

[Silent]

The other is a Lee 358-125 RNFP. Usually use ACWWs or ACWWs plus a little 50/50 solder, no leading.


I'm limited to R rounds, I don't even know if FP would even chamber in my 9mm. The load ramp is short and steep like a .22.

What is ACWW? Something, something wheel weights I'm assuming.

[theperfessor]

ACWW = Air Cooled Wheel Weights. It seems like the Lee bullet nose hits about the same place on the feed ramp as regular round nose bullets, but it may not do that in your gun. If you want to try some I'd be glad to send you a few. I just seat them deep enough to allow the round to fully chamber the cartridge, I just take the barrel out and use it to make sure the round drops in all the way.

[Silent]

My 9mm. Star FireStar 9mm purchased outside Camp Pendleton in '90

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w318/NAA_Silent/Firearms/2010-09-03-204145.jpg

With as steep as the loading ramp is, I don't know what (if any) other style of round will work.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w318/NAA_Silent/Firearms/2010-09-03-203837.jpg

[Silent]

Just ordered a couple Lee molds to try out. They are cheap enough that if they don't work, I'm not out much. 358-125-RF and 356-125-2R. Also ordered the .358 sizing die. If worst comes to worst and I can't chamber the RF, then I might be able to use it on a Buddy's .357

[mdi]

"Start simple, don't get overloaded. If you do what I have recommended, you will be just fine
at the start. Do the alloying and other more advanced stuff later if you want to or need to,
they are not necessary most of the time. This is not rocket science and you have a high
probability of success if you start simple."

Yes! Keep it simple. It's really easy to "over think" bullet casting with all the info available out there. Remember, shooters have been casting bullets since the invention of guns without the web!;-) Get Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, read it and you'll be ok...

[45nut]

I feel like my brain is melting from information overload.

That's why a forum beats a book by miles and miles,, we can provide feedback to settle the stomach or inspire more in depth research. Unlike congress we are not here to deceive and befuddle but to clarify.
Keep it SIMPLE is job one here, this need not be an exercise in alchemy or rocket science.
Enjoy the process and you will see progress.