Ya live and learn. Ask first and cut secondly

[Buckshot]

.............Got a call from my oldest nephew. Graduated this month as an electrical engineer from Arizona State. Smart young man, who has already been scouted and is starting out at 50K/year. Enough background.

Seems my brother (his dad) just gave him a Mossberg pump shotgun he'd picked up at a swap meet. Seems the nephew recalled a conversation we'd had at one time when I touted the short barreled pump shotgun as the #1 home defense weapon.

It appears that is was no time at all before this shotgun had been modified to his satisfaction as a "Short barreled Home Defense" weapon then a thought drifted through his head about said mod. The phone call here at work was on that subject. When I said that 18" was the legal minimum, all I heard on the line was some long distance hiss.

As that was rather boring, I asked gently where he might have surgicly removed the offending portion of the barrel. He said it was right there where the pump handle dealie hooked on. He added that he might be in the market for a new barrel and I agreed. I said he might like to go to a gunshop there in Tucson and have them order up a Defender barrel for him and an owner's manual.

...............Buckshot

[carpetman]

My gunsmith/friend said he has noticed that shotgun barrels that are cut off with a pipe cutter seem to come apart as oppossed to hacksawing and then facing off???????

[Willbird]

What is odd to me is that in the socialist state of Canada his new shotgun would be as legal as any other pump shotgun.

he could send the cut bbl to a guy that doesnt own that model of shotgun, who could then take it to subguns.com and sell if for at least some money, there are legal ways to use it with the proper paperwork.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

On this same subject--we found out after airbags came our way that the Rem 870's with 18.5"-20" barrels would no longer fit inside our patrol cars in the racks we had used for years. The answer--to make them fit, reduce barrel length to about 15" or so. Net result--lighter shotguns that kicked harder with slug and buckshot loads, and had more pronounced muzzle blast. After about 5-6 years of those NFA critters, I prefer the legal length barrels. They seem to point better, certainly swing better, and are more comfortable for the operator. My home defense gun is an 870 with rifle-sighted 20" barrel.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

In the UK we are limited to 24in., and if I wanted something handier for any application except solid ball, I think a double is a better way of doing it. I've never actually felt much need of a defensive firearm, though I use defensive grease in my gun safe lock on principle. (They can't touch you for it!) But in a home defence situation (as against a car or a strange darkened building), I can't see much wrong with even standard sporting shotgun barrels. The muzzle can be an extremely effective weapon against someone you don't feel quite justified in shooting - and despite what some people on the net fantasize about doing to any intruder, I think you'd get all the testosterone you need from sitting in the witness box and explaining why you didn't think he was worth shooting.

[Buckshot]

I can't see much wrong with even standard sporting shotgun barrels. The muzzle can be an extremely effective weapon against someone you don't feel quite justified in shooting - and despite what some people on the net fantasize about doing to any intruder, I think you'd get all the testosterone you need from sitting in the witness box and explaining why you didn't think he was worth shooting.

The problem with longer then necessary (or legal minimum) shotgun barrels is their unwieldyness when used as a home defense piece. So far as thinking about boinking someone over the head or jamming the muzzle into a tender spot, it might be ill advised to be that close to some unwanted intruder who's in your home. They might grab it and then you'd have a whole new situation on your hands.

However, living out in the boonies does have it's drawbacks in some respects, when a 911 call would go to the county sheriff and a unit 15 miles away is disptached. While in 20 years we never had an intruder while we were home, we were burglerized once. While it was about 3 miles away, the Southern Pacific mainline ran through another canyon north of us and I was a bit sensative to illegals and others dropping off, as it were.

Then once in the wee morning hours I was awakened by hushed conversation right outside our bedroom window. Roused form sleep I wasn't quite certain what I'd heard that waked me, so I was up on an elbow listening. When I heard footsteps at the end of the house I got my pistol from the headboard and stood in the bedroom doorway for quite some time. My wife dialed 911.

We had the deputies show up about 20 minutes later. They asked if we were okay and then apparently cruised around up and down the canyon road for some time. Found out later it was 4 teenaged boys who'd been out in the sticks drinking, had a flat and managed to pull off the road into the ditch and couldn't get out.

It was a few weeks after that that I took delivery of a former PD trade in Winchester 12 ga pump gun, and it leaned right there in the corner of the bed and the wall. My daughter has it now at her house.

..............Buckshot

[Scrounger]

It was a few weeks after that that I took delivery of a former PD trade in Winchester 12 ga pump gun, and it leaned right there in the corner of the bed and the wall. My daughter has it now at her house.

..............Buckshot

Your daughter sounds like the kind of girl any man would love... Err, she doesn't look like you, does she?

I recently bought an 870 Express from one of the auction boards. It is a 3" Magnum and has RemChokes in a 21" barrel. It looks right, handles great; the perfect barrel.

[kenjuudo]

In the corner by the front door, partially concealed by a tall plant, rests a short 870 with a empty chamber and a full mag. It's been there over twenty years, the kids were instructed in it's use from an early age, practice was encouraged with mostly light loads. It's only use to date has been an occasional shot in the air to disrupt a dog fight or a late night trip to the chicken coop.

This tradition is now being repeated in their homes. The horror of it all...children being raised around unsecured firearms and being taught responsibility and their proper use.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Buckshot raises a vital point, "However living out in the boonies does have its drawbacks, in some respects, when a 911 call would go to the county sheriff and a unit 15 miles away is dispatched." That is a precise summary of our situation, even to the exact distance from the Sheriff's office. A couple of months ago, two Middle Eastern appearing men came to my door. I put my loaded Gold Cup under my open gray cardigan sweater (imagine the standard old man uniform) in Mexican carry position, THEN went to the door. The spokeman of this group was trying to find the previous owner of the house. When I told him I didn't know, he became very angry, and attempted to question me I told him it was time for him to leave my property. He stuck his business card, (first name Amir) in the locked steel bar/glass outer door and trudged back to a vehicle, where a third gentleman was waiting. After getting back in the car, Amir then made hand gestures similar to gang recognition signs and tried to take my picture with a small digital camera. A 911 call brought two deputies about 90 minutes after Amir and Co. left. While the .45 in my belt did give me a warm, fuzzy feeling, it was the right move too late. S**t happens quick. Now there is a loaded firearm in whatever room I happen to be in at all times, and SWMBO insists that I be armed when home alone and working in the yard. The next visitor may be a greater threat than a socially inept foreigner frustrated at not finding somebody who owes him money. I have a very high respect for our LEOs, but the odds of them being in the right place at the right time increase exponentially with distance from the station.

[StarMetal]

My first line defense, being we always lived in rural, are my two 100 lb German Shepherds. At least they give you enough time to get a weapon if one is not handy. They keep just about all the human vermin away. They'd rather rob someone else then deal with two irate dogs. In rural areas burglar alarms are a joke, as some non dog loving folks had suggested that instead of two dogs which you have to take care of and mess your home up some. I'll stick with the dogs and plus they are super companions. This go around my two German Shepherds are what I call Stealth Dogs....they are both coal black....be mighty hard to see at night.

Joe

[waksupi]

Our Sherrif has repeatedly told people up here, they had better be able to handle immediate problems. Nearly an hour for some areas for response, as there is 5500 miles of road in the county, much of it back mountain roads, and they just plain can't get there fast. I think the Sherrifs office only has maybe 40 people, and many of those are administration.

[45 2.1]

Our Sherrif has repeatedly told people up here, they had better be able to handle immediate problems. Nearly an hour for some areas for response, as there is 5500 miles of road in the county, much of it back mountain roads, and they just plain can't get there fast. I think the Sherrifs office only has maybe 40 people, and many of those are administration.

Ric-
Did you add a zero or is that an awfully BIG county?

[Willbird]

Well I cut my teeth on 20 gauge double bbls, so probably the 20" pump gun probably feels right because it is about the same overall length as a 26" bbled double.

I like short and handy guns....

I would dearly love to have an NFA 22/410, that can be classed as an AOW (look it up) even with a buttstock, probably a springfield M6 like this, maybe 12.5" tho http://www.paladinarmory.com/SBSAOW.htm aow transfers for $5.00 so that would not be bad.

Bill

[BCB]

Back in the late 60’s, I inherited a Model 12 Winchester in 12 gauge. The shotgun had the “infamous” Cutts Compensator on it and it was a nuisance, ugly, and I ain’t even sure it worked. I can’t remember the situation, but I couldn’t get that polychoke off, so out came the pipe cutter. Well, after I made a few revolutions on that barrel, it snapped off and there it was, a straight through shotgun. A bit of hand filing and the sharp edges were removed. That shotgun killed an unbelievable number of rabbits with that short barrel and loads of #4 copper shot. I loaded 5/8 ounce (shot column shimmed up with 20 gauge cards) in Federal (I think) paper hulls. That gun was so dang easy to swing and was deadly out to 25-30 yards with the #4 copper. It only took a pallet or two to kill a bunny, and then they weren’t all shot up. A Conservation Officer once done a field check while I was hunting and he looked at the shortened barrel with a raised eyebrow. I am uncertain why he didn’t measure it! I think it would have failed the test! That shotgun now is at the bedside in the corner loaded with 00 buckshot. It is a formidable weapon with that load at close range…BCB

[waksupi]

Ric-
Did you add a zero or is that an awfully BIG county?

It's a big county. I imagine bigger than Rhode Island pretty easily, and maybe bigger than a couple of those other itty bitty states back east.

[45 2.1]

It's a big county. I imagine bigger than Rhode Island pretty easily, and maybe bigger than a couple of those other itty bitty states back east.

Flathead county 5,137 square miles. Would make a nice hunting reserve, wouldn't it.

[Willbird]

actually the only 12 gauge I have that has a choke is for slugs and coarse shot, 20" with rifle sights, it checks IC as I recall. and it is death on bunnies, as is my mossy with no choke.

Bill

[Scrounger]

It's a big county. I imagine bigger than Rhode Island pretty easily, and maybe bigger than a couple of those other itty bitty states back east.

Got you beat:

Nye County Virtual Travel in 653 images
... With 18159 square miles within its boundaries, Nye County is the third largest
county in the United States. The mountains and valleys of the Great Basin ...
www.untraveledroad.com/USA/Nevada/Nye.htm - 6k

[waksupi]

Scrounger, I'll bet you have a bigger pickup than Carpetman, too!

[Scrounger]

Scrounger, I'll bet you have a bigger pickup than Carpetman, too!

Might be, but there's no sheep dung in it...

[Buckshot]

It was a few weeks after that that I took delivery of a former PD trade in Winchester 12 ga pump gun, and it leaned right there in the corner of the bed and the wall. My daughter has it now at her house.

..............Buckshot

Your daughter sounds like the kind of girl any man would love... Err, she doesn't look like you, does she?

My daughter:

http://www.fototime.com/BA8C4739724D9C0/standard.jpg

............Buckshot