Brand new at 45-70; need suggestion for powder, primer...

[ghh3rd]

I'm gathering supplies in anticipation of my 45-70 Marlin arriving. The molds that I will start off with are the

Lee 459-405-HB Flat Nose Hollow Base
Ranch Dog TLC 460-425 RF

The 5-cavity RD mold will cast either PB, GC, or a HP PB boolit. THought I'd cover all of the bases. I will be plinking and hunting, and am looking for any words of wisdom about anything from toned down plinking loads, to good knock em over loads for boar and deer, preferred primer, etc.

How fast I can push a WW+2%Tin PB boolit without leading.

I haven't even decided what the first container of powder will be. I've looked in reloading books, and suppose I can pick from there, or start with some that I've gleaned from various searches, but would like to hear what's working good for you guys (and gals).

I feel like a little fish in a big sea of choices with this rifle (and it feels good).

Thanks for any input.

Randy

[rhead]

Unless you wound up with a rough bore you can push the Lee HB about as fast as your shoulder wants to endure. I use either 3031 or unique. I have heard good things about the Ranch Dog boolit but have no personal experience. If the boolit will chamber as cast I would pan lube and try that dia. first. Most of the Marlins have somewhat roomy throats.

With the unique loads I get a little better accuracy using large pistol primers. I can't tell any difference on the 3031 load.

[StrawHat]

After years of trying different loads for the 45-70 from mild to wild, I have come to a couple of favorites. Any lead boolit over a case of black powder will do for all my hunting or plinking needs. I don't do competitive shooting anymore but if I did, black would be my powder of choice there also. The old ballistics are still the best. I have moulds that cast the Gould boolit (330 HP), the 405 HB, the 450 FNFN, and the 500 RNFB. All work well for hunting and plinking.

[btroj]

How fast can you push them? How much pain do you want?
That said, I have had very good luck with around 24 gr of 2400 in my Marlin. Recoil is very manageable and accuracy is good. For higher velocity there are lots of powders that work well. Benchmark, target, 4895, 322, 335, and many more will work. Those listed are the ones I have used.
I have come to prefer a 405 plain base for most shooting as I don't have the expense of a gas check and I have a 6 cave mold for it.
I have actually found this cartridge/rifle combination to be very easy to load for. Don't be afraid to experiment some. And be sure to try trail boss. Very low velocity but for loads that allow you to get used to cycling the action fast and for getting used to the rifle it can't be beat.

Brad

[44man]

With BP you can use very soft lead, great for hunting. But then the clean up!!!
For WW's and tin with smokeless (Might not need the tin.) just water drop, age and load.
Unique will do for light loads and 3031 or RL-7 is nice for more power.
4198 is OK but it seems to have a lot more recoil then 3031.
I think you should try several powders.
Don't use a hard boolit for deer, they are too fast, you need some expansion. 50-50 WW's and pure, water dropped or oven hardened does nicely. Watch this alloy using a hollow point, it will tear up a lot of meat. Drop to 75%-25%.
The Marlin in 45-70 is a fine rifle and should shoot good with any load.
Varget might also be a great choice. As slow as it is, it actually worked in my revolver.

[XWrench3]

i have tried varget in mine, with no sucess to speak of. groups were mediocre at best. and i tried a LOT of different combinations! for my gun, best accuracy has been achieved with 42 grains of reloader 7. i get sub moa groups with that load using a RanchDog 360 (366g) grain gas checked boolit. recoil is not for the meek, but not unbearable. i am using waterdropped ww's with tin. i am going to cast up some pb boolits and load them exactly the same way. i would expect very close results. except the boolit should be much more devastation for hunting.a good freind of mine told me to work up a load, and when you get a good one, load it the same except use a soft bullet, and you will have an awesome hunting load. as for smearing lead, he told me this,"how many rounds will you really shoot during a hunt?" good advice. you will certainly never shoot enough to foul the barrel to the point that accuracy will be lost. by the way, welcome aboard! oh,also, i am using pistol primers and bullseye for my light plinking loads. you can play around with those a bunch until you get a couple you like. accuracy doesnt seem to vary a lot on reduced plinking loads @ 50 yards.

[onesonek]

I agree with 44man,,,try a few powders, as each rifle can have its own preferences. I prefer Fed. Match primers above all others. But they are hard to get sometimes. Then I use the regular Fed's. with CCI being my 3rd choice. I havent had any experience with the .45-70 and cast boolits as of yet,,, just starting. But have had the .45-70 in a TC, and in that particular rig, I had best luck with RL-7 and 400gr, but in phone conversations, have been told by a few caster's here that generally H-322 or H-335 are their "go to" powders. Just kinda depends on the speed and alloy and design. Now I can only give you my opinion on the speed, but again in talking with others, I just don't see the need for needing any more than 1600-1650 with the 405 gr. and with a softer expanding boolit, one could slow that down some. Again it's just my opinion with, but more ft/lbs of energy isn't always or the only answer. And more speed isn't going to flatten trajectory any major amount beyond a 150 yds. But "each to their own" as they say.

Dave

[Fly-guy]

I am now using Winchester LR primers, 10 grains of of Unique, a 1x2 cotton cleaning patch folded over to make a 1x1 filler tampted down on the powder, a Lee unsized 340 gr RFN that has been double dipped in 45/45/10. Works great for me!

[docone31]

I had one of those, and it just plain hurt!
I highly reccomend putting a field pad where the plastic butt pad is. A definate kicker.
I loved it though. I was afraid to shoot it after a while, but it had a feel.
I used 3031 powder for it. If I had it again, I would use 4895. A little softer.

[ghh3rd]

Wow, where else could I get so much information overnight while I slept?! This site rocks! I really appreciate all of this info.

I like hearing that "The Marlin in 45-70 is a fine rifle and should shoot good with any load", and it sure does seem that there is plenty of room for experimentation with this rifle. Just in this thread so far I've seen 4895, 2400, 3031, Benchmark, RL-7, Trail Boss, Reloader7, Unique, Varget, 4198, 322, 335, and Target! Guess I won't need to pick up any powder until I try a couple that I already have on hand.

Thanks

[JesterGrin_1]

The very first thing I would do is put a Limbsaver recoil pad on that thing. :)

Also other than the reloading books we have on hand you can go to the Hodgdon web site to find loads. You may wish to start at the Trap Door level first and work up to what you can stand lol.

I have been using H-322 with the Ranch Dog 350Gr RNFP/GC with great results.

Forgot to add size them BOOLITS .460 :)

[G50-70]

Most of my 45-70 shooting is just plinking and informal target shooting.

For smokless powder I am a big fan of Accurate 5744 and use it for about 80% of my smokless loads. I load the Lee .459 - 405 HB to about 1300 fps and can have fun all day. I use Emmert's Lube with lanolin and leading is not a problem at this vel.

WW plus 2% tin would be good, but as 44 Man said you may not need the tin. Plain WW's work fine for me. I use Winchester large rifle primers and Starline or Winchester brass.

You will like the Marlin.

[zxcvbob]

Has anyone tried using a few grains of Red Dot under a case full of BP? It should clean the load up quite a bit without taking away its "character". (I've been meaning to try this with .45 Colt loads; my homemade BP is usable but not really good.)

[rusty marlin]

I love my .45-70. Jut like Raid... Kills deer dead. :)
I use 3031 and the Lyman Gould HP for hunting cast from Lyman #2 cut 50/50 with plumbers lead to soften it up a bit. Lube is White Lable's BAC. Muzzle velocity is around 1600.

I've tried R7, Varget, 4198 and probably a few others, but the rifle really likes 3031 and the Gould bullet.

With the Lee 405HB, I've only ever used the Holy Black. I copied Pat Wolfs directions, http://www.the45-70book.com/The-Book-3rd-Edition-by-Spence-Pat-Wolf

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h45/rusty_marlin/100_1641.jpg

[Just Duke]

I love my .45-70. Jut like Raid... Kills deer dead. :)
I use 3031 and the Lyman Gould HP for hunting cast from Lyman #2 cut 50/50 with plumbers lead to soften it up a bit. Lube is White Lable's BAC. Muzzle velocity is around 1600.

I've tried R7, Varget, 4198 and probably a few others, but the rifle really likes 3031 and the Gould bullet.

With the Lee 405HB, I've only ever used the Holy Black. I copied Pat Wolfs directions, http://www.the45-70book.com/The-Book-3rd-Edition-by-Spence-Pat-Wolf

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h45/rusty_marlin/100_1641.jpg

That's a great pic Rusty. :holysheep

[Fly-guy]

One other load that I use in my 45-70 is 30 grains of 2400 with a copper colored boolit. Actually the copper colored boolit is a Berry 350 grain RFN and is pretty accurate. A three round group will cut one hole at 100 yards but beware, don't get to close to the scope like I did. :veryconfu

I would say that the recoil off of this load is just a scouch more than a 7 mag. The number 1 is fairly heavy and so is the recoil.

[45r]

I've tried a half dozen molds and lots of powders and probably the best combo so far has been the BRP 420GC with H-322.The saeco 350GC is real good with less recoil and both are fast and accurate.3031,RL-7 and Vitt-133 are good.The 45-70 works well with a lot of powders but these have been very accurate in my XLR and Win highwall.I use 5744 for reduced loads.

[Larry Gibson]

ghh3rd

You have the heavy bullet covered real well with that RD mould. With WW + 2 % tin a GC'd bullet over 1600 fps will give the best accuracy. With the GC'd bullet you can also use a softer alloy like 50/50 WW/lead and drive them as fast safely possible with excellent accuracy. This will give you all the penetration needed plus expansion, especially with the HP bullet, which will increase the terminal effects.

Having the RD bullet which will give a lot of versatility I would suggest a lighter weight additional mould in lieu of the 405 HB, especially for plinking, casual shooting and target practice. A lighter weight bullet will give more bullets per lb of alloy, less recoil and be just as accurate over practical 45-70 ranges. The Lee 457-340-F is a good one as is the RCBS 45-325-FN. I have used both in Marlins and they are very good bullets in the 45-70 for lighter loads.

However I have settled on the Rapine 460250 which is a 2 cavity mould that casts a 275 gr bullet. I shoot thousands of these in my 45-70s at 1050 fps and shoot them with excellent accuracy to 400 yards. Accuracy is excellent and reciol is nil.

If you want a lighter weight bullet to push to 1800 - 2000+ fps then the RCBS 45-300-FN-GC is an excellent one to use, especially with WWs + 2% tin alloy.

Larry Gibson

[ghh3rd]

Lee 457-340-F is a good one

Thanks Larry

The reason that I chose the 459-405 HB was it's advertised side (459), the largest diameter of the Lee 45-70 molds. Does your drop any larger than it's stated diameter? One nice thing about Lee's is the low price, you can afford to try and if doesn't work out someone else can probably use it.

Randy

[fredj338]

I have tried RL7, 3031 & 4198 & the best accuarcy w/ the RCBS 325grFP (actually 350gr from ww) is w/ 3031 @ 1600fps.

[Catshooter]

Excellent choise in the Marlin. I haven't shot mine much yet, but the first three rounds went into one hole at 100 yards.

Load was a 365 grain 50/50 boolit over fifteen grains of Universal Clays with a large pistol primer.

Wonderful cartridge.


Cat

[d garfield]

I just started shooting IMR 4759 with405 flatnose 25grns of powder.it shoots like hell and barrel looks unfired. May go up a little.

[mpmarty]

I have both ranch dog molds for 45/70 and prefer the 350 grain flat nose gas check. I load it over 25gr of Old 2400 and it is a very nice mild shooter. Accuracy is good also. I have just bought a pound of RL7 and will be trying it out soon as well as the old faithful 3031 which works in most all my rifle calibers. With the 2400 I use large pistol primers. The RL7 and 3031 will get Winchester LR though.

The above load of 2400 is a max load for the Marlin according to LEE 2nd edition but I believe that's for the newer 2400. Fortunately I've got about twenty pounds of the original 2400 from the early sixties.

[JesterGrin_1]

I have to agree I really like the Ranch Dog 350Gr. I also have the Ranch Dog 425 Gr but it will drop over a foot more at 100 yards than the 350Gr.

[onesonek]

I have to agree I really like the Ranch Dog 350Gr. I also have the Ranch Dog 425 Gr but it will drop over a foot more at 100 yards than the 350Gr.

If you ever want to get rid of that RD 425,,I would be interested:wink:

Dave