Springfield 1873 45-70 Single Shot

[obssd1958]

Hi Guys!

I am going to an auction this Friday and need some help! When I checked their updated catalog tonight, I found they have added 2 Springfields to their list (along with a buch of other late entries).

#1.) SPRINGFIELD 1873 45-70 SINGLE SHOT SERIAL # 179xxx
Short barrel and stock, no rear sight, sling swivel on the trigger guard

#2.)SPRINGFIELD 1884 TRAP DOOR 45-70 SINGLE SHOT SERIAL # 531xxx
Long barrel and stock, ramrod under barrel

They don't list any other info and the pictures are just barely enough to get the basics.

I am interested in the trapdoors, but am woefully uninformed. What do I look for to verify authenticity? How do I tell if it's a shooter? ( I am not looking for a wallhanger!) What kind of prices do they command for the different models or variations?? What else do I need to know to make an informed decision on either one of these?

Thanks in advance!

Don

[Dale53]

obssd1958;
What you really need is Spence and Pat Wolf's book "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 springfield Rifle and Carbine". The book covers much more than just loading. It describes how to clean and check a rifle for shooting use and much more. It is relatively inexpensive and a "must have" for the trapdoor owner or want to own.

http://www.the45-70book.com/

Dale53

[threett1]

Trapdoorcollectors.com has a wealth of info too.

[Char-Gar]

The only things I can tell you about them without seeing them is the first one listed (short barrel and stock) is not original and a cut down rifle without any collector's value.

A real carbine didn't have the sling swivel in front of the trigger guard..that was a rifle.

A carbine had a ring on a bar mounted on the left side of the stock.

[PatMarlin]

Go here and check out this experts collection:

http://www.picturetrail.com/sa4570af

Go here also:

http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/trapdoor/trapdoor.pl

I know alot more about them now, since I own one, and I lucked out and got a real TD.

There are a lot of fakes, not from Springfield that were assembled with parts back then. These to web sites will show you some examples.

There is also I'm finding a lot of miss-information out there about these rilfes. If you post your question on the forum link above, they will answer it.

Dick Hosmer is the guy who is an author and authority on TD's. He will answer your questions on the forum, and suggests people ask there, before they buy.

He also owns the collection in the link abouve.. :drinks:

[obssd1958]

Thanks for the replies so far gentlemen.

Dale, the auction is Friday morning. I wasn't able to find the book locally today, so I don't think it's going to do me any good as a research tool before I decide to buy. If I do buy, I will be sure to order it from the web site that you provided the link to. Thank you!

threett1 and Pat, Great sites, I spent most of the evening there going over all of the information that I could find, in the time I had (that 4 letter word "w*rk" got in the way!). Thanks for the heads up!

Chargar, I was a little off on the "short barrel and stock" description. After looking at the picture provided for the auction and comparing it to the pictures on the web sites mentioned, I think it is a carbine model. Whether real or fake, I won't know until I have a chance to actually look at the piece.
Here's the picture that they posted for the auction:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m9/obssd1958/shooting/large-1076.jpg

Unfortunately, the only time that a person can inspect the firearms, is an hour before the auction starts. I have been to 3 of these in the last 2 years, and it can be pretty hectic trying to get to look at a particular item. Especially if it is one of the popular ones! (I'm hoping this one is not, for obvious reasons![smilie=1: )

Thanks again for the help guys!!

Don

[obssd1958]

Here is a picture of the 1884 rifle:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m9/obssd1958/shooting/large-1149.jpg

By the way, after looking at the values - or asking prices - for the trapdoors, unless I get REALLY lucky, they are probably out of my reach :( .

But, being the eternal optimist, I'll go and bid anyway!!

Don

[Wildcat]

I've got an 1884 rifle. The rear sight on that rifle doesn't appear correct from the photo. I'm no expert, but I thought the 1884 had the Buffington rear sight. That looks more like the 1879 rear sight. As for the carbine, looks like a cut down infantry rifle to me. Look for a dowl in the forend, used as a filler for the ramrod channel. That, plus the swivel on the trigger guard, should be a dead giveaway.

[13Echo]

I agree, the carbine looks fake. The rifle, however, could be an early 1884 since the early ones used the 1879 sight with the Buffington becoming common about 1886. There is little incentive to fake an 1884 rifle since they are the most common of the Trapdoors. It is possible that it is a "parts" rifle made up of whatever action, barrels, locks, sights, and stocks that Bannerman or others had lying around. Check the stock for the appropriate cartouches, the sight should be attached with slotless screws, make sure the patina is uniform and not mismatched, look carefully for signs of "refinishing" the metal and stock, and look over the rifle descriptions on Al Frasca's Trapdoor Collectors site. The rifle looks to be in decent condition and is worth a careful look.
Jerry Liles

[PatMarlin]

Also I would make sure it has a nice bore. No need to settle for one that doesn't cause there are a lot of TD's with nice bores around.. :drinks: