45 ACP Handloads don't fit cylinder

[JohndeFresno]

Handloaders,

I have run across a problem, and I want to be cautions before applying my proposed solution.

I have a factory new Ruger New Model Blackhawk Convertible 45 Colt / 45 ACP. The cylinder throats have been properly reamed for maximum accuracy and fit - by G. Castro of Cylindersmith.com.

I know that the 45 ACP round headspaces on the cylinder throat. My .45 ACP factory loads fit fine. My .45 handloads won't seat all the way into the cylinder to allow it to spin. I have to remove the cylinder and empty the shells. The bullet used is a Magnus 185 gr. SWC, .452 caliber.

I use a carbide .45 ACP die, so the instructions call for there to be some space between the die and the shellplate. I use a nickel for a gauge, as do many others with this type of reloading die. The loads work well for in Colt semi-auto, by the way. It appears that the problem with the loads in this sixgun is caused by the slightly thicker base of the reload brass, where the resizer die stops short at the bottom part of the case.

I could use a non-carbide die and bring it closer to the shellplate, squeezing down the base of the bullet at the web area; but I don't know that this is advisable.

Or, maybe my SWC bullet is a little too wide (at the throat) - ? Should I use only jacketed (.451) bullets? I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die in the process, so I would think that this is not the problem.

Has anybody else used handloads for the .45 ACP Convertible with this problem? Can anybody shed some light on this puzzle?

Thanks in advance. :bigsmyl2:

[Dale53]

Maybe I can help a bit.

When we were all using 1911's this problem seldom came up. However, with the widespread use of Glocks (and others) many of these autos do not fully support the case when firing. This leads to a bulge at the case head which can prevent the case from fulling seating in the chamber (after reloading).

First of all, let's try to do the easy stuff first. The reason for not screwing the carbide die "hard" against the shell plate is that carbide is extremely hard and also somewhat brittle. Heavy pressure against the shell plate CAN fracture the carbide ring. BUT, and this is a big BUT, you only need it to fail to touch the shellplate by the thickness of a matchbook cover. Using a nickel prevents full sizing of the case.

That will probably solve your problem. Try that and if it works, let us know and we'll go on to something else. If it doesn't solve the problem, then we'll explore other alternatives.

Incidentally, I HAVE a SS Ruger Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible and it works perfectly with my .452" SWC and TC bullets (after the cylinders were reamed).

Dale53

[kawalekm]

Hi John
Rounds not chambering could be from a variety of causes. I can list a few and how you would check them.

First, a nickle's width of a gap between the shellplate and die bottom I think is too much. Routinely, I screw my Lee carbide dies all the way down to the shellplate, then unscrew them just enough to see a paper's thickness of light between the two. What you'll actually see in practice though is that the "gap" between the two parts will actually increase while sizing a real case, because of the upwards thrust of the case at the top of the ram.

First, see if sized, but not yet loaded cases will fit in your cylinder. If they do not, then sizing is your problem. If re-adjusting the die doesn't work, you may have to try a different manufacturer's die, or get a replacement from Lee.

If sized cases to fit, but reloaded cartridges do not, it is either the diameter of the case mouth, or the OAL. If cartridges are headspacing on the bullet nose instead of the case mouth they might not chamber. Try taking a fired case that has NOT been resized but the primer has been punched out with a nail. Place a bullet in the fired case mouth and insert in a chamber so that the bullet gets pushed inside the case. Carefully extract the case/bullet and measure it's OAL. You might have to pull the case/bullet back out with a bent paperclip. That is the maximum OAL that your cylinder will handle, with the bullet sitting on the throat. Your cartridge OAL must be less than that number.

If the OAL is OK, then it might be the case mouth. Measure the mouth of a factory round. It should be somewhere around 0.470-.471". If your reloads have a bigger mouth, you need either more or better crimp. I myself gave up on the Lee set's crimper and bought a Hornady taper crimping die. That worked like a charm for me.

Good luck with your reloading.
Michael

[Hobie]

John,

I think Michael has it down pat.

[fourarmed]

There are only a few things it can be. The bullet is too big or is seated too long. The case is too long or not sized down enough. The crimp has buckled the case mouth so it is too big at that point.

[spqrzilla]

.45 ACP semi-wadcutter round probably seated a bit too far out and is interfering on the shoulder of the bullet.

[fredj338]

Are you taper crimping? Your carbide die needs only a tiny space to keep from banging it on the downstroke. Try a bus card space, that is enough & make sure you taper crimp, always crimp, always.

[AZ-Stew]

Check your case length.

Regards,

Stew

[beagle]

Boils down to seated out too far, bullet diameter too large (I use .451s in my convertible) or else the crimp's not taking all the bell out where you expanded the case. Probably not your sizing and I rarely encounter a case that is over the length.

Yeah, I know these have all been mentioned but I'll throw my $.02 in too.

A taper crimp die is almost a "must have" for the .45 and 9mm convertibles as well as the .30 Carbine and is money well spent in functioning and savings in frustration./beagle

[Fixxah]

Try the Lee 6-cavity truncated cone 230g mold and the Lee FCD as mentioned. Flawless operation. My 1911 HATES SWC.

EDIT: Who trims pistol brass?:confused:

[Echo]

I'm betting on incomplete sizing. +1 for setting the sizing die down to almost touch the shell holder/shellplate.

[NSP64]

I screw the carbide sizer down till it barely touches the empty shell holder. Then when its sized there is a tiny amount of flex and a space between the holder and die.

[JohndeFresno]

Thank you, all. It all makes sense.

Since I just wanted to try out the new gun with mild loads, I used range brass of various types. Initially, accuracy was not my main concern; just how the bullets themselves performed. And some fit better than others, but none pushed flush into the cylinder.

So I probably need to lower my sizer, and perhaps some cases are swelled more than others due to their being previously fired in a Glock or other handgun that does not fully enclose the casing.

I'll check these factors out with two different cast bullets (sized .451 and .452) and report back, hopefully by this weekend, and post results for the benefit of others. I am pretty sure that your answers cover every possibility; and it appears that incomplete case sizing is the culprit.

* * * * * BIG UPDATE * * * * *

DANG! I hate it when that happens. I hope y'all appreciate this - 'cuz the only thing I hate worse than looking stupid is some Bozo who misleads others because he won't admit to a mistake.

I should have looked more closely. In re-examining the .45 SWC bullets that would not settle into the cylinder, I noted and belatedly remembered that I had set some of them ABOVE the case mouth - just a tiny bit - to overcome occasional feed problems with my Colt Mk IV Series 70 .45 ACP semi-auto pistol.

I set the bullets back down so that they were exactly topped at the case mouth and they fit perfectly into the .45 ACP cylinder.

So instead of the old combat shooting adage, "Front Sight! Front Sight! Front Sight!," the solution for this is "Case Mouth!" (3x)

Thank you again for your suggestions. I guess my oversight brought out other possible answers, so despite my reddened face, "It's all good."