Why so slow?

[Chris]

Looking to cast up some new 300 gr. loads for a Ruger Alaskan and everything I find for a load is very slow. What is the purpose in running a load that doesn't need a gas check so much slower than a jacketed load? As long as the bullet obturates and has the right lube is there any problem with pushing a bullet like this up to 1000fps like a jacketed? What am I missing?

I am very experienced in reloading but not as much with lead. Generally I have just bought precast and loaded them up but I am getting back into casting my own after a hiatus.

[beagle]

Well, for one thing, when you start slinging lead in that weight and heavier, pressure goes up and drastically. If you look around, there's plenty of data for heavy bullets. Hodgdon's site is one good source and includes pressure data as well.

I'm sure that using Hodgdon's data that you'll be able to get all the velocity that you can stand out of 300 grain plus bullets.

If not, look for some of John Taffin's old loads and you'll definitely get what you want in both velocity and recoil.

BUt yeah, it's the pressure./beagle

[Chris]

Aww dangit. I totally forgot about that deal Hodgdon has on their site that shows the pressures and such. Very good. Thanks Beagle.

[44man]

Aww dangit. I totally forgot about that deal Hodgdon has on their site that shows the pressures and such. Very good. Thanks Beagle.
I don't know your caliber but you can run a 300 gr PB as fast as you want as long as you use at least water dropped WW metal. Bought boolits should be hard enough, all you need is the proper diameter for your gun. Store bought lube on them is questionable.
I am shooting a 325 gr PB in the .454 with 26 gr of 296. I did not chrono it but got 1" at 50 yards.
In the .44 I use 21.5 gr of 296 with a STANDARD PRIMER and 310 to 320 gr boolits. That gives me an average 1316 fps.
Neither of these loads is max. Very safe in a Ruger or Freedom.
You might get a huge flame from the muzzle and will lose a little velocity with the short barrel! :bigsmyl2:

[Chris]

I am using a .44

I have a ton of 296 so that sounds like a good plan. With a lot of testing I am seeing a consistent loss of 400 fps from a 6.5" to the Alaskan with my regular jacketed rounds.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that the Alaskan is a softer shooter than the 4" Redhawk that I have. The grips on the Alaskan are much better.

I want this gun to be a hammer and I like muzzle flame. :D

[Chris]

44 man, are you running gas checks?

[fredj338]

I am using a .44

I have a ton of 296 so that sounds like a good plan. With a lot of testing I am seeing a consistent loss of 400 fps from a 6.5" to the Alaskan with my regular jacketed rounds.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that the Alaskan is a softer shooter than the 4" Redhawk that I have. The grips on the Alaskan are much better.

I want this gun to be a hammer and I like muzzle flame. :D
I would think the Alaskan would be softer shooting, it's a huge 44mag. I see no issues getting 300gr lead bullets into the 1200fps+ range, depending on bbl length. Accuracy & leading are going to be determined by bullet fit first.

[Chris]

I would think the Alaskan would be softer shooting, it's a huge 44mag. I see no issues getting 300gr lead bullets into the 1200fps+ range, depending on bbl length. Accuracy & leading are going to be determined by bullet fit first.

The Alaskan is a 2.5" barrel. The 4" Redhawk actually weighs a few ounces more than the Alaskan but is rougher shooting due to a different grip design.

[lwknight]

I might be confusing myself but, it seems that you are saying that the 2.5" barrel is a lot slower than a 4" barrel?
It is logical and to be expected if that is the case.

[Chris]

That is correct and I do expect the smaller barrel to be slower. I was clarifying for Fredj338 that the Alaskan actually is a softer shooter even though it has a shorter barrel.

I cast up some 310's tonight with wheel weight ingots. I'll let them sit a week or two and shoot them up.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Chris,

My go to load with my RUGER Redhawk is a cast 310gr LBT boolit, which I put out the barrel ahead of 19gr of AA#9 for a velocity of a tad over 1300fps from a 5.5" barrel.

This is a gas checked boolit.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Chris]

Chris,

My go to load with my RUGER Redhawk is a cast 310gr LBT boolit, which I put out the barrel ahead of 19gr of AA#9 for a velocity of a tad over 1300fps from a 5.5" barrel.

This is a gas checked boolit.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I prefer not to gas check if I can get away with it. Honestly, If I can get a 310 to 1200 fps out of the 2.5" barrel I will be very happy. If I ever have to shoot anything that doesn't feel that, maybe it didn't really need killin. :-D

[44man]

44 man, are you running gas checks?
Only with a few boolits. I started making my molds PB since the price of checks is nearing gold. Just need to make them harder.
I am shooting PB in all of my guns including the .475 and 45-70, also from a Friends Freedom .454, all with near max charges for hunting.
The molds I made for Whitworths .500 JRH, .500 Linebaugh and the .50 Alaskan are all PB.
Dropping to a 50-50 alloy for expansion will require a check or accuracy goes out the window. Softer lead needs a skid stopper.

[Bass Ackward]

also from a Friends Freedom .454, all with near max charges for hunting.


Max pressures from a Cassaull with the hardest of lead on this planet is still going to slump, bump, compress, deform, and you still got accuracy out of it? Defective bullets and all?

Will miracles never cease?

You Ol' obturator you. :grin:

[44man]

Max pressures from a Cassaull with the hardest of lead on this planet is still going to slump, bump, compress, deform, and you still got accuracy out of it? Defective bullets and all?

Will miracles never cease?

You Ol' obturator you. :grin:
Strange isn't it?
Look at my boolit and the right target I shot at 50 yards. WD WW's, boolit weighs 330 gr, 26 gr of 296.
The left target was shot with 3 different factory loads from Double Tap, Cor-Bon and Buffalo Bore.
Here are some recovered boolits too. All of them impacted other boolits in my trap.

[44man]

My oh my Bass, I don't see any slump. Noses and bases are perfect except where they hit other boolits or other boolits hit them.
Even the rifling shows no skid.
By the way, I am loading them with Hornady .45 Colt dies too.

[Bass Ackward]

My oh my Bass, I don't see any slump. Noses and bases are perfect except where they hit other boolits or other boolits hit them.
Even the rifling shows no skid.
By the way, I am loading them with Hornady .45 Colt dies too.


That is a very good point. Glad that you picked up on it. :grin:

Pressure did exceed bullet strength and they still look like regular bullets, don't they?

This is what I have argued for months. Obturation does NOT have to be deformation.

Deformation occurs when gun dimensions or bullet hardness is GROSSLY off for the pressure applied.

Great lesson there. Thanks for illustrating my point.

[44man]

That is a very good point. Glad that you picked up on it. :grin:

Pressure did exceed bullet strength and they still look like regular bullets, don't they?

This is what I have argued for months. Obturation does NOT have to be deformation.

Deformation occurs when gun dimensions or bullet hardness is GROSSLY off for the pressure applied.

Great lesson there. Thanks for illustrating my point.
Yes, it is the way it should be. The boolits are .4525" and expand to fit the gun at .453" to give good obturation without deforming.
Now for the factory loads, I am convinced they were over crimped and broke down the case tension. I get the idea that the primer was moving the boolits before good ignition. Common with a SR mag primer that has a lot of pressure with no heat.
Working with starting loads in the .454 and 296, those that failed to light were blowing boolits 1/2" past the forcing cone.
We are having a lot of trouble with factory loads and at times it takes only one shot to pull boolits, even bullets, so the gun is locked up. They even lock up a SRH.

[felix]

If you hafta' purchase loaded rounds, consider strongly BLACKHILLS products. ... felix

[Ole]

I have a 7.5" Ruger Redhawk and a 2.5" Ruger Alaskan and my informal chonograph tests showed the Alaskan lost right @ 200fps with full house, H110 265 RD loads that I had developed for my Redhawk.

Your results may vary, but mine were right about what I expected when i bought the gun. I probably will be saving my 300+ grain loads for my Redhawk only due to the high cost of local dental work.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Sure like the looks of the Alaskan!!!!!!!!!!!! And would like to give a try or two with it and my 310gr LBT loads.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot