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NickSS
09-04-2006, 03:28 AM
I was going through my powder storage area and found a can of Winchester 785 ball powder way in the back. It is still in good shape and I do not like to waste powder of any sort. My problem is is that I do not have any loading data for it only that I know it is slower than Win 760. I would like to use this stuff in loading any of the following cartridges: 6.5X55 Swedish, 30-30, 30-06, 7.5 swiss, 7.62X54r, 303 British, 45-70. Has anyone ever used this stuff with cast bullets and what loading data do you have.:-?

felix
09-04-2006, 09:27 AM
Nick, in general, use 785 as 4831 weight wise, not volume. If the case is not full, or no more than 5 percent less in volume, don't use it, especially for cast, unless you filler it on up with a filler of some sort. I prefer PSB. ... felix

woody1
09-04-2006, 12:15 PM
I was going through my powder storage area and found a can of Winchester 785 ball powder way in the back. It is still in good shape and I do not like to waste powder of any sort. My problem is is that I do not have any loading data for it only that I know it is slower than Win 760. I would like to use this stuff in loading any of the following cartridges: 6.5X55 Swedish, 30-30, 30-06, 7.5 swiss, 7.62X54r, 303 British, 45-70. Has anyone ever used this stuff with cast bullets and what loading data do you have.:-?
Nick, seems like I should have some 785 data. Let me look and see what I can find. Felix, a question for you...or anyone who might know.......why was it discontinued, as I recall, quite soon after being produced? Regards, Woody

woody1
09-04-2006, 12:34 PM
Nick, seems like I should have some 785 data. Let me look and see what I can find. Felix, a question for you...or anyone who might know.......why was it discontinued, as I recall, quite soon after being produced? Regards, Woody
I do have some limited data from Winchester. Of course not any of the cartridges you mentioned. Very slow ball powder pretty much for "medium and large capacity cases and ...belted magnum cases." Winchester cautioned to use the data they provided exactly as shown. PM me if you want specific data. Regards, Woody

felix
09-04-2006, 02:17 PM
Lack of sales, no doubt! Too many powders in the same 785 burn range. The only powder they took off the market for functional reasons (due to irregular ignition) was 630. To my knowledge, that is. ... felix

NickSS
09-04-2006, 02:53 PM
Thanks for the info Felix I know that it is a magnum powder and I originally used it in a 264 Mag and found that it was too fast for max velocity so quite using it. I thought I used it all up. I will see how it fills a 45-70 case with a charge weight similar to 4831.

felix
09-04-2006, 03:09 PM
Nick, your 45-70 is modern, isn't? NOT a trapdoor. ... felix

jhalcott
09-05-2006, 10:34 PM
I used 785 in the 6mm Rem with jacketed bullets. They were super accurate,but slow! Several hundred fps if I remember correctly.I had to hold a LOT higher on long shots than with 4350 or 4831 powders. I did chrono the loads once,but don't have the results any more.

Buckshot
09-06-2006, 02:08 AM
.............Very possibly the reason WW pulled it is because it exhibited the same traits as H110 and W296 with reduced loads?

...............Buckshot

felix
09-06-2006, 09:02 AM
Maybe so, Rick. Maybe they brought it to the market in the first place was to eliminate such a large stock of it that they could not use it all making loaded ammo. Too fast for 50 machine gun ammo? ... felix

NickSS
09-06-2006, 02:54 PM
My 45-70s are all new made like Marlin 95 and C. Shaprs 1875 model rifles. I have put pretty hot loads through each.

Ricochet
09-06-2006, 03:16 PM
The only powder they took off the market for functional reasons (due to irregular ignition) was 630. To my knowledge, that is. ... felix
Hey Felix, they took 295P off due to ignition problems in cold weather. Replaced it with the slightly faster burning 296.

felix
09-06-2006, 04:05 PM
Well, I think all the "P" versions were taken off the market at the same approx time because each new non-P had a newer formulation. Yeah, I bet it was primer related. ... felix

cosmoline one
06-30-2010, 03:51 PM
Can someone print load data for 785?

wiljen
07-01-2010, 09:13 PM
785 was linked to a fair number of SEE in reduced loads as I recall. I think it was even written up in the early handloader by a guy playing with one of the Gibbs cartridges - maybe the 6.5.

Heavy lead
07-01-2010, 09:18 PM
Was not 785 the same powder as H 450? It seems it was. I used some H 450 in the mid 80's when I was a youngun and a new reloader for the 300 Win Mag. an accurate powder with the Nosler 200 grain partition from my notes, but when I finally had money to buy a chrono in the 90's the velocity (also from my old notes) was disappointing.

johnly
07-02-2010, 12:36 AM
Was not 785 the same powder as H 450? It seems it was. I used some H 450 in the mid 80's when I was a youngun and a new reloader for the 300 Win Mag. an accurate powder with the Nosler 200 grain partition from my notes, but when I finally had money to buy a chrono in the 90's the velocity (also from my old notes) was disappointing.

785 =>H450 That's what I've always thought.

spqrzilla
07-03-2010, 10:38 AM
When Hodgdon recently gave out the list of Hodgdon / Winchester equivalents, they did not list 785 and H450 as a pair so I doubt it.

BerdanIII
07-08-2010, 05:09 PM
Can someone print load data for 785?

Yes, but it will take a day or so to post it... That pesky work-to-earn-money thing, you know.

BerdanIII
07-10-2010, 01:22 PM
Winchester 785 DataAll data from Ken Water's Pet Loads articles (in the big red book)

.220 Swift
53 gr Win Match HP - 43.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 2.65" COL - 3478 fps - "extremely accurate, low velocity"
63 gr Sierra Semi-Ptd. - 44.0 - Norma case - CCI250 - 2.67" - 3571 - "accuracy not acceptable"

.243 Win.
75 gr Win HP - 49.0 - Win case - W120 - 2.71" - 3191
85 gr Win HP - 47.5 - Win case - W120 - 2.71" - 3051
87 gr Horn SP - 47.5 - Norma case - W120 - 2.69" - 3029 - "best accuracy with 87-gr"
100 gr Sierra - 45.0 - Federal case - W120 - 2.75" - "loud muzzle blast"
105 gr Speer - 44.0 - Federal case - F210M - 2.75" - 2689 - "best accuracy with 105-gr"

6mm Remington
85 gr Speer SPBT - 48.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 2.85" - 3049
100 gr Horn SP - 47.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 2.85" - 2929
100 gr Sierra spitzer - 46.0 - Federal case - 9½ M - 2.85" - 2843 - "very accurate"

.257 Roberts
100 gr Horn SP - 48.0 - Super-X case - CCI250 - 2.80" - 2820
117 gr Sierra FBSP - 45.0 - Super-X case - W120 - 2.76" - 2590 - "very accurate"
117 gr Sierra FBSP - 47.0 - Super-X case - W120 - 2.76" - 2811 - "accurate"
120 gr Speer SPBT - 44.5 - Super-X case - CCI250 - 2.76" - 2615
120 gr Speer SPBT - 46.0 - Super-X case - CCI250 - 2.76" - 2684

.25-06 Remington
100 gr Sierra spitzer - 56.0 - Win case - 9½ M - 3.15" - 3185
100 gr Sierra spitzer - 57.0 - Win case - 9½ M - 3.15" - 3229
117 gr Sierra spitzer flat base - 53.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 3.17" - 2933
117 gr Sierra spitzer flat base - 54.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 3.17" - 3046
120 gr Horn HP - 53.5 - RP case - 9½ M - 3.20" - 3012
120 gr Speer spitzer BT - 52.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 3.17" - 2875

.270 Winchester
130 gr Sierra Spitzer - 59.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 2954 - "extremely accurate; under 1 MOA"
130 gr Sierra Spitzer - 60.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 3021
130 gr Sierra Spitzer - 61.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 3033 - "excessive pressure - do not use!"
150-gr Sierra Spitzer - 57.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 2809 - "most accurate 150-gr load tested"
150-gr Sierra Spitzer - 58.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 2880 - "1 MOA"

7x57mm Mauser
160 gr Speer FB spitzer - 50.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.07" - 2542
175 gr Sierra BT spitzer - 51.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 3.13" - 2563 - "poor accuracy"

7mm-08
145 gr Speer - 49.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 2.79" - 2740 - "very accurate"
154 gr Horn - 19.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 2.79" - 2681
160 gr Speer - 50.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 2.79" - 2699
170 gr Sierra - 49.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 2.80" - 2553

7mm Express Remington (.280 Remington)
168 gr Sierra Match King - 56.0 - RP case - 3.33" - 2762
175 gr Sierra BT spitzer - 56.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 3.34" - 2733

7mm Remington Magnum
145 gr Speer BT - 68.0 - Federal case - CCI250 - 3.28" - 3144 - "accurate, do not exceed!"
150 gr Nosler Partition - 67.0 - RP case - CCI250 - 3.28" - 3019
160 gr Sierra BT - 66.0 - Federal case - F215 - 3.29" - 3001 - "accurate load"
175 gr Horn - 63.0 - Federal case - CCI250 - 3.28" - 2795

7x64mm Brenneke
140 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip - 58.0 - RWS case - 9½ M - 3.32" - 2755 - "accuracy only fair"
160 gr Sierra BT spitzer - 55.0 - RWS case - 9½ M - 3.32" - 2687 - "accurate"
170 gr Sierra RNSP - 53.5 - reformed RP .30-06 - 9½ M - 3.29" - 2569 - "accurate"
175 gr Horn Spire Point - 54.0 - RWS - 9½ M - 3.32" - 2573

.30-'06
180 gr Win Silvertip - 55.5 - Win case - W120 - 3.26" - 2537
190 gr Win Match HP - 56.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.27" - 2570 - "fine match load"
220 gr Win Power Point - 55.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.28" - 2427

.300 H&H Magnum
165 gr Speer BT spitzer - 71.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.60" - 2930 - B accuracy
180 gr Horn SP - 71.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.60" - 2837 - A accuracy
180 gr Sierra BT spitzer - 70.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.60" - C accuracy
200 gr Nosler Partition - 69.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.60" - 2729 - A accuracy
220 gr Sierra RNSP - 69.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.55" - 2640 - "best accuracy with 220 gr SP"
A = 1 1/16 to 1 ½ " at 100 yds.
B = 1 9/16 to 2"
C = 2 1/16 to 2 ½ "

8mm Remington Magnum
170 gr Speer Semi-spitzer - 82.0 - RP case - 9½ M - 3.60" - 3100 - "accuracy poor"
220 gr Horn Spire Point - 77.5 - RP case - 9½ M - 3.60" - 2827 - "accuracy good"

.338 Winchester Magnum
200 gr Win - 75.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.33" - 2806 - "accurate"
225 gr Horn - 74.0 - Win case - RWS - 3.33" - 2747 - "poor accuracy"
250 gr Win - 73.0 - Win case - RWS - 3.33" - 2567
250 gr Win - 74.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.33" - 2638 - "full case"
300 gr Win - 70.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.33" - 2414

.348 Winchester
200 gr Winchester Silvertip - 66.0 - Win case - W120 - 2.790" - 2418" - 3.25 to 4" at 100 yds; maximum, do not exceed.
250 gr Colorado Custom - 61.0 - Win case - W120 - 2.750" - 2164 - 2.5 to 3.25"
250 Winchester Silvertip - 60.0 - Win case - W120 - 2.775" - unk. - 1.5 to 2.5" - "good load"

From: Speer #10

.225 Winchester - Win case, CCI250
70-gr - 34.0 to 38.0 - 2723 to 3111 fps

.243 Winchester - Win case, CCI 250
75-gr - 46.5 to 50.5 - 3038 to 3322 fps
80-gr - 46.0 to 50.0 - 2982 to 3238
85-gr - 46.0 to 50.0 - 3045 to 3353
90-gr - 45.0 to 49.0 - 2864 to 3109
105-gr - 42.0 to 46.0 - 2639 to 2937

6mm and .244 Remington - Win case, CCI250
75-gr - 48.0 to 52.0 - 3128 to 3402 fps
80-gr - 47.0 to 51.0 - 3066 to 3346
85-gr - 47.0 to 51.0 - 3043 to 3349
90-gr - 47.0 to 51.0 - 3056 to 3318
105-gr - 45.0 to 49.0 - 2878 to 3127

.257 Roberts - Win case, CCI250
100-gr - 46.0 to 50.0 - 2744 to 3007 fps
120-gr - 43.0 to 47.0 - 2578 to 2749

.25-'06 Remington - Win case, CCI250
87-gr - 55.0 to 59.0 - 3097 to 3346 fps
100-gr - 53.0 to 57.0 - 2985 to 3240
120-gr - 51.0 to 55.0 - 2806 to 3045

6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser - Norma case, CCI250
120-gr - 49.0 to 53.0 - 2466 to 2703 fps
140-gr - 45.0 to 49.0 - 2252 to 2476

6.5 Remington Magnum - RP case, CCI250
120-gr - 50.0 to 54.0 - 2529 to 2754 fps
140-gr - 48.0 to 52.0 - 2396 to 2610

.264 Winchester Magnum - Win case, CCI250
120-gr - 61.0 to 65.0 - 2993 to 3210 fps
140-gr - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2689 to 2939

.270 Winchester - Win case, CCI250
130-gr - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2736 to 2946 fps
150-gr - 54.0 to 58.0 - 2587 to 2814

7x57mm Mauser - Win case, CCI250
130-gr - 51.0 to 55.0 - 2497 to 2698 fps
145-gr - 50.0 to 54.0 - 2427 to 2614
160-gr - 49.0 to 53.0 - 2402 to 2584
175-gr - 48.0 to 52.0 - 2298 to 2509

.280 Remington (7mm Express Remington) - RP case, CCI250
115-gr - 60.0 to 64.0 - 2933 to 3198 fps
130-gr - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2724 to 2974
145-gr - 54.0 to 58.0 - 2573 to 2805
160-gr - 51.0 to 55.0 - 2376 to 2595
175-gr - 48.0 to 52.0 - 2221 to 2455

.284 Winchester - Win case, CCI250
115-gr - 60.0 to 64.0 - 2918 to 3143 fps
130-gr - 57.0 to 61.0 - 2752 to 2986
145-gr - 59.0 to 63.0 - 2756 to 3006
160-gr - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2563 to 2801
175-gr - 54.0 to 58.0 - 2437 to 2651

7mm Remington Magnum - Win case, CCI250
130-gr - 63.0 to 67.0 - 3008 to 3219 fps
145-gr - 62.0 to 66.0 - 2903 to 3071
160-gr - 60.0 to 64.0 - 2737 to 2929
175-gr - 58.0 to 62.0 - 2598 to 2786

.300 H&H Magnum - Win case, CCI250
150-gr - 70.0 to 74.0 - 2881 to 3113 fps
165-gr - 68.0 to 72.0 - 2787 to 3014
180-gr - 69.0 to 73.0 - 2781 to 3005
200-gr - 66.0 to 70.0 - 2643 to 2857

.308 Norma Magnum- Norma case, CCI250
130-gr - 77.0 to 81.0 - 3141 to 3372 fps
150-gr - 72.0 to 76.0 - 2860 to 3078
165-gr - 70.0 to 74.0 - 2749 to 2904
180-gr - 68.0 to 72.0 - 2632 to 2850
200-gr - 66.0 to 70.0 - 2537 to 2747

.300 Winchester Magnum - Win case, CCI250
130-gr - 81.0 to 85.0 - 3227 to 3447 fps
150-gr - 74.0 to 78.0 - 2951 to 3118
165-gr - 72.0 to 76.0 - 2774 to 2995
180-gr - 70.0 to 74.0 - 2701 to 2910
200-gr - 68.0 to 72.0 - 2635 to 2845

8mm Remington Magnum - RP case, CCI250
150-gr - 86.0 to 90.0 - 3203 to 3365 fps
170-gr - 80.0 to 84.0 - 2963 to 3127
200-gr - 75.0 to 79.0 - 2766 to 2920

.338 Winchester Magnum - Win case, CCI250
200-gr - 74.0 to 78.0 - 2683 to 2893 fps
250-gr - 70.0 to 74.0 - 2519 to 2724
275-gr - 68.0 to 72.0 - 2397 to 2542

I left out the Weatherby Mangl'ems. If you need them, let me know. This powder doesn't seem to be suited to cast bullet loads.

wmitty
07-10-2010, 04:42 PM
BerdanIII

Thanks for posting this info!

Uncle R.
07-10-2010, 08:38 PM
I bought a single can of 785 in the way-back years - used it in my .25-06. Had an "incident" while using a W-W listed load that left me hammering the bolt open from a seriously expanded case head. I had already used that load in testing through maybe a dozen rounds with no sign of problems - but a cartridge left chambered for a minute or two in a hot barrel put pressure thrugh the roof when fired. Touchy stuff - I didn't use it again after that day. I still have the remaining half pound around here some place...

cosmoline one
07-11-2010, 12:48 PM
Thanks BerdanIII !

pricedo
07-18-2010, 09:02 AM
I remember trying Win 785 a few years ago and that it left a very stubborn residue in my barrels. I originally bought a couple of cans and had half a can left which I roto-tilled into the flower garden bed after my arms started to bulk up like Arnold Schwarzenegger's from scrubbing rifle bores. :bigsmyl2:

cosmoline one
10-16-2010, 11:15 AM
52.0 grns w/a speer 200gr sp is doing great(8x57)

groovy mike
03-30-2013, 10:20 AM
Berdan III -
Thank you for posting that. I too have a can that I havn't been able to find loads for.

Cuebuilder
05-01-2015, 09:24 PM
Years and Years ago I bought a 8lb keg of it from a local gun shop that was closing, got a pretty good deal on it. Anyway, Winchester said in their little handout pamphlets that it was the factory powder they used in the 90gr and 100gr loads for the 243 Winchester. I have one of those pamphlets somewhere and I have always followed the info in that pamphlet to the letter and have Never had any problems of any kind with it. I think it is one of the best powders available for the 243 Winchester at the time. If any one wants the info for W785 powder I will look it up and list it on here. Cuebuilder

Paullacy
01-15-2022, 09:54 AM
Nick, I have a 1981 Winchester Ball Powder Reloading Data Manual. Win 785 is a slow powder, so probably not what you want with cast bullets. For Cast bullets such as the Lyman #266469 140 grain with a gas check, a powder in the fast range such as IMR 4227 or reloader 7 works in the 6.5 X 55. In a 30-30 hand gun with a Lyman #311359 with a gas check i also use a fast powder such as RE 7 or Unique.
I use the win 785 in things like the 25-06 where you want a slow burning powder. I now use MagPro or Vint N170 for the same applications because 785 and H 870 are no longer available. Not sure I am much help.

gumbo333
01-15-2022, 11:39 AM
Hope Nick is still amoung the living. 2006 was more than a few days ago. Never used any 785, that was from the 60' s and early 70's maybe. Used lots of 760/ H414. Good stuff. Think 414 is still around.

farmbif
01-15-2022, 01:29 PM
I remember back when powders were sold in metal cans, it was one powder that folks used in 270win, its a ball powder so when you work up a load might want to use a magnum primer.
it works well probably in a lot of calibers where the 4831's shine,

rockrat
01-15-2022, 09:51 PM
Friend of mine, when he had his 25-06, loaded 90gr BTHP Sierra's to good effect.

relics6165
01-16-2022, 12:23 AM
There are some W785 loads on Steve's Pages:

https://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

tctender
01-16-2022, 11:22 PM
I used it in a 243 back in the 80's till it was not made anymore. Worked well for me then.