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10mmShooter
08-19-2010, 09:30 AM
Hey Guys,

I'm burning up a lot of gas and and time running back and forth to the range dragging the chronograph with me, spending more time analizing than shooting.

I have a simple problem to fix. I'm using my RCBS 150-SWC mold, average weight 151 +/- 1g. With .38 special brass, I'm looking for 925fps-975fps(slightly into +P range). When shot out of my SW686(8-3/8in). With that bullet COL can run between a 1.40 up to 1.455, I believe this is playing into the equation as well.(+P loadings are okay since I'm using a 686) No manual lists a 150g SWC..all show a 140g or a 158g SWC/FP.

I have tried Green Dot...stopped at max charge of 4.0g...just could not get over 900 fps, and I was not willing to push over the max charge.

I have tried Red Dot...up to 4.2g max charge...velocity was good at 975fps, but I had very slight primer flattening and I didnt like it because it caused a small case bulge(.380), it cleaned up after sizing but would degrade brass lifespan I'm sure. Red Dot might be a touch too fast a powder with pressure spiking too quicly.


I am trying WW231 now at 4.8g, not a max charge but entering +P land. So I'm seating at 1.44 inches and hoping for 950 ish fps. I hoping to avoid any undesireable brass bulging. Has anyone used a similiar load and bullet to help me on my quest, I'm sure WW231 will give me the velocity, but I dont want to bulge the brass like Red Dot did.:coffeecom


PS ....I dont want to us my AA#5, I'm saving it for my 10mm loading.

thanks

Hurricane
08-19-2010, 10:58 AM
38 Special P+ goes up to pressures of 20,000. Your 686 357 Mag. can handle pressures up to somewhere around 36,000. It should handle any P+ load with ease. I regularly shoot the RCBS 38-150-SWC with 4.5 gr. WW231 in 38 Sp. cases from K frame 38 Sp and 357 mag revolvers with no problems. I have also used 4.0 gr. Red Dot with no bad effects. You should not be having problems with your gun and a 4.2 gr Red Dot load. Could you possible have a imperfection in one of your chambers?

casterofboolits
08-19-2010, 11:42 AM
:confused: Just got flabergasted!! :veryconfu

I was going to tell you to check the Lyman reloading manuals. So I pulled out my Lyman third edition Cast Bullet Handbook and the Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook and SMACK! Niether of these handbooks list load data for the 38-150-SWCPB in the 38 Special.

Since I have two four cavity and a two cavity for this boolit, I quickly checked the Lyman site, and yes, Lyman still makes moulds for the 38-150-SWCPB.

However, they do list a load for the 150 grainer in 357.

I shot several tens of thousands of this boolits in my 38's a couple three decades ago, so I pulled out my old, mouldy loading logs and checked. I used the 158 grain round nose data to develope a load for the 150 grainer in 38 Special brass.

Worked for me. :Fire: YMMV

Wally
08-19-2010, 11:59 AM
38 Special P+ goes up to pressures of 20,000. Your 686 357 Mag. can handle pressures up to somewhere around 36,000. It should handle any P+ load with ease. I regularly shoot the RCBS 38-150-SWC with 4.5 gr. WW231 in 38 Sp. cases from K frame 38 Sp and 357 mag revolvers with no problems. I have also used 4.0 gr. Red Dot with no bad effects. You should not be having problems with your gun and a 4.2 gr Red Dot load. Could you possible have a imperfection in one of your chambers?

How did that 4.0 grain charge of Red Dot work out for you--do you still use it?

10mmShooter
08-19-2010, 01:37 PM
Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'm gonna follow a combination of what you guys have recommended, I went and checked my .357 brass inventory I've got 1500 pieces, so I have just thrown them into the tumblers to shine them up a bit before resizing.

I have reviewed my manuals and have chosen to go ahead and work up a "light" load w/ .357 brass and with AA#5, I have found a loading of a 150g SWC and 7.6 grains of No5 for 1098 fps in the Accurate Red Book Manual. This a touch faster than I was looking for but I use only #2 alloy so I'm okay there, besides I've run .38 brass loads at 1050fps with no leading issues.

No 5 has served me well for mild 10mm loads...so hopefully it will work nicely for light .357 loads.

So time to load a few up and back to the range with chrono again :( funny how the cycle never ends

MtGun44
08-19-2010, 06:39 PM
If you want more velocity use a slower powder. Try unique or power pistol.
Trying to get max vel with fast powders is dangerous, they peak out in
pressure way too soon.

For full power .357 Mag loads H110/W296 is excellent. I used 16.3 gr (Please
verify, this is from memory) and get excellent accy from my Ruger Seucruty Six and
S&W 586.

Houndog
08-19-2010, 06:58 PM
I can't give any help with that boolet in 357 cases, but I use it in 38 cases with 5.0-5.3 Unique and standard Wolf primers with excellent results. 5.0 is a warm standard load and 5.3 will get you into +P territory.

beagle
08-19-2010, 10:09 PM
Take a look at castpics/articles by members/High Speed .38 Special Loads and I believe you'll find what you're looking for.

I went back and duplicated all the old .38/44 loads I could find and then worked up some new data with newer powders.

I selected the 358429 as it was the heaviest bullet I had available.

With the 38-150-SWC being lighter by about 20 grains, you can cut back on the charge a little and get what you want.

These were all tested in a .357 Ruger Blackhawk and loaded in .38 Special cases. I noted no high pressure signs in any that I fired. In that 686 you'll be fine.

The .38 Special is one of the better cartridges ever designed and the ammo manufacturers have castrated factory loadings because of all the old ratty guns out there. In a modern factory gun, it's one of our better cartridges properly hand loaded./beagle

Hurricane
08-20-2010, 12:43 AM
Not much to tell. Both ww231 and Red Dot work well with 38 Special. Accuracy was the same with either load. No excess pressure signs and the cases were easy to resize. I do not have a cronagraph so I do not know the velocity. I have been shooting with Red Dot for several years and just recently started using ww231. Either powder works well for me. I am not going for high preformance, I just want an easy 38 Special load.

Larry Gibson
08-20-2010, 01:32 AM
I use the Lyman 358477 that is HP'd cast of pure lead over 5.5 gr Unique in .38 Special cases to duplicate the velocity and accuracy of the Winchester 150 gr HP FBI .38 Special load. I have fired lots of the out of my 4 & 5" M15s and my 2 1/2 M19.

Larry Gibson

lwknight
08-20-2010, 11:06 PM
I found WSF to be a very scaleable powder in 38s and 357 cases as long as the bullets are 150 or more grains.
It does scale up very smoothly IME.

Its no good with light bullets like 110 grains in a 38spl for sure.

DGV
08-20-2010, 11:57 PM
5.3-5.4 grains of 231 should put youin the area of 950 fps. Definetely a +P load.