80% Lowers. Non-firearm.

[Dannix]

I just came across this. 80% lowers. Non-firearm. I just wanted to post this as I know some here may be interested in this sort of thing:

http://www.tacticalmachining.com/images/490_345_5-80-lowers.jpg
http://www.tacticalmachining.com/category.php?cid=22

Source, AR15.com poster (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=507637)
Tactical Machining $80 apiece.
(I've finished a few of them and they are the best out there for the money in my opinion)
You should be aware that the "definition" of "80%" changed a while back, so now all you have to do is mill the trigger/lug pocket, mill the trigger slot, and drill the trigger/hammer/selector holes.
No buffer tube tapping or aircraft extension drills required, etc.[/quote]
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=507637

[Blammer]

that's a LOT of milling left to do, not for the faint of heart or unskilled.

[KYCaster]

Seems to be a lot of time and trouble involved just to save fifty bucks.

And if you "finished a few of them" like the AR15.com poster, wouldn't that require a manufacturers license? I'm certainly no expert and I could be wrong, but that's the way I understand it.

Jerry

[Dillon]

you dont need anyhting to finish them i believe. I looked into it at one point but the reason was that I have already bought a lot of ar's and I didnt want atf knocking at my door but then i realized I really didnt care. my local gun store gets me complete ones for $90.00

[MtGun44]

Making the mag well is NOT easy.

Bill

I should clarify - the fact that the mag well is done makes this a
ton easier than just starting with a forging.

[lylejb]

80% lowers

90% chance of f!@#@$#$ it up unless you have professional quality machinist skills and a good shop

IF your that good, and have all that equipment, you could probably make one from a billet, if you so desired.

don't see the advantage, it's not much more to just buy one ready to go.

[JIMinPHX]

They're not kidding. That really isn't a firearm. If you can finish that, you can probably also make one out of a solid billet.

[nicholst55]

You can rent jigs to drill the pin holes, and some of the 80% lowers that have been marketed over the years actually had more of the machining done than those pictured do. Legally, you have to do ALL of the work yourself; you can't farm out the milling and then just drill the pin holes, for example.

While it's perfectly legal to build one gun for yourself, from scratch as it were, you cannot sell it. And if you were to start doing this on a production line basis, you would very shortly find yourself in deep doo-doo with the BATFE. You would need the appropriate FFL to manufacture guns, and you would have to pay the FET (federal excise tax) on them and keep appropriate disposition records.

All that, just to invest a whole lot of time and money into something that you can buy for less than $100 at your local gun pusher's. I'll pass.

[mike in co]

yes but for those that do have the skills and access to equiptment...its one more uncle sam does not have paperwork on..ALL ABOVE BOARD.
AND IT IS A FORGING, not a cast billet....

they even did a few in ar10...now that i was interested in...

[HATCH]

@mike - there are so many private sale AR's available that it isn't worth the hassle to just build one from a 80% lower.
People that complete these 80% lowers do so because its a challenge. They don't do it because its a weapon not on the books....

@nicholst55 - you can sell a weapon that you built. The catch is that you can not build for profit. Lets say you complete a 80% lower. You shoot it and then you don't want it any more.
So you have to mark it with your name, city, state. Put a serial # on it and sell it.
I spoke at length with two BATFE agents that were sitting in my garage (long story). If you do not build with the intent of selling then your not a manufacturer.

[cheese1566]

All being said, it would be a neat project for someone who has the equipment, skills, and time.

I would if I had the tooling, just for a project and to say "I did that!".

That's one of the reasons why I cast (not to mention the free lead I get...!) and reload. It would be plenty easy enough to buy bullets and made ammunition.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[mike in co]

[QUOTE=HATCH;975742]@mike - there are so many private sale AR's available that it isn't worth the hassle to just build one from a 80% lower.
People that complete these 80% lowers do so because its a challenge. They don't do it because its a weapon not on the books....

QUOTE]

we dissagree in that.......

[Harter66]

+1 for unlisted #s. I'd do a couple if I had the tools. If black rifles were my thing.

[S.R.Custom]

Other than a paperweight or hobby project, I don't much see the use. Too much time & effort involved for anything else. Even at the height of post-election fear, I could still get completed mil-spec stripped lowers for less than $100. Everybody was making them.

Someone mentioned numbers. If you actually went through with the aggravation of finishing one of these 80% units yourself, do you really want the aggravation of getting pulled over on the way to the range and having to explain to Barney Fife why your evil black rifle has no serial number? It's much easier to buy 2nd hand from Joe Blow at the gun show.

Where these are really cool, though, is if you're a legit small scale 07 MFR. For $80, all the grunt work is done. You can put in a proprietary trigger group of your own design (Accu-trigger/electric solenoid/whatever), or build full-on M16s and sell to the FBI... a lot of possibilities.

[69daytona]

Not worth the trouble when my local gun shop sells great quality lowers for 75 bucks.

[mike in co]

Other than a paperweight or hobby project, I don't much see the use. Too much time & effort involved for anything else. Even at the height of post-election fear, I could still get completed mil-spec stripped lowers for less than $100. Everybody was making them.

Someone mentioned numbers. If you actually went through with the aggravation of finishing one of these 80% units yourself, do you really want the aggravation of getting pulled over on the way to the range and having to explain to Barney Fife why your evil black rifle has no serial number? It's much easier to buy 2nd hand from Joe Blow at the gun show.

Where these are really cool, though, is if you're a legit small scale 07 MFR. For $80, all the grunt work is done. You can put in a proprietary trigger group of your own design (Accu-trigger/electric solenoid/whatever), or build full-on M16s and sell to the FBI... a lot of possibilities.

if you are an 07 and paying 80 bucks for incomplete lowers, you will not be in business very long.
in this glut market in volume they can be had for 50 bucks..or less....

[JIMinPHX]

AND IT IS A FORGING, not a cast billet....

billet = cast????????

Not where I come from.

[Blammer]

I bet you'd burn up a dremmel or two finishing it. :D

If I made one it would have a serial number, who cares what the number would be, pick one of 1 trillion or more numbers. :)

I'd stamp one on that is about 30 numbers long, just because I could! Watch them try to type that number in for a trace. :)

[82nd airborne]

I like your style blammer

[mike in co]

billet = cast????????

Not where I come from.

yes i mis-spoke

there are forged
there are cast
and there are billets......a nice word for a chuck of metal that is not forged.

and i honestly do not know if anyone is doing forgings anymore(for ar's)

mike in co

[dualsport]

It's easier to just buy a nice muzzleloader too, but people still buy kits. Probably make about ten cents an hour doing it. The numbers thing is an illusion, you can beat that game easy without all that work. I think it's about the satisfaction of just doing it. If it really came down to it ATF could probably identify the metal to a tee giving them the origin.

[Harry O]

I have been following 80% receivers for some time, but have not bought one. I have the tools, but not the skill.

Although they are technically legal, the BATF has made a push to find something wrong at just about every place that offers them and have bankrupted several of the original suppliers.

[dualsport]

You can(or used to anyway, don't know now) get a 1911 80% frame on the web. Gotta watch it though, there's a guy using very misleading ads. Picture and product very different.

[Storydude]

That's a 45 min operation with a 1/2" 2 flute boring end mill, a easily made metal template for the FCG holes and an hour with a burr on a dremel. And, because Buffer tube is tapped, the hardest part is done now.

TM makes the best 80% on the market. And some of us make them because we can.