A Fer Instance

[Beekeeper]

I want to lay a fer instance on everyone.
If due to nothing you had done you came into some large money.
Using another posters post about buying guns not gold what guns would you invest in?
antiques?
Milsurp?
modern?
I read a post by buckshot about him buying Greener Martini actions and another post about buying antique rifles and pistols.
So where is the best place to spend your money?
For me I am thinking the $99 milsurps but I have always wanted some antiques until I let my fingers do the shopping and saw some of the prices.
What would you invest in?



Jim

[DIRT Farmer]

A nice drilling, a custom Berks county flinter, Flint double shotgun.

[uncle joe]

I think the article your talking about was refering to a SHTF situation and colapse of the monitary system to some extent. Lots of folks will be looking for all sorts of guns. some for hunting and some for protection.

[HeavyMetal]

Not sure guns are an investment I'd buy into.

The simple fact, for me anyway, is if I buy it I'll want to shoot it. This can depricate valuable collectors guns.

You have already been advised that Gold is a joke. I listen to Dave Ramsey each morning and this morning he explained that Gold had a bad Track record as an investment.

If you have a gun you'd like to buy do so the rest I woulds invest in long term stock portfolio's that show a long term investment return.

That is my entire knowledge of stock investment by the way!!

What I will suggest is that you "tune in" to Dave Ramsey's radio show ( KFWB 980) tomorrow and listen to some of his callers and his advise. Then get Dave's web address and contact one of his endorsed local providers ( ELP) in the investment area of his web site and get thier input on what to do with "surplus" cash.

You may not wish to do as they suggest but it never hurts to listen.

As for investment guns? I do not know anyone that's made any apreciable money buying and selling antique or milsurp guns.

Same deal with "collectors" cars. Seen a bunch of guys spend 30 to 35K restoring a 2 door 55 Chevy Bel Air only to find it hit auction at 29,500! Who made money there??

The investor that backed the parts guy! Think about that!

[454PB]

I agree that buying guns as an investment plan is probably not a good idea, for one thing they take up a lot of room and have to be protected from theft and misuse (especially if there are kids in the house).

But how many here have bought a new gun and then later sold it at a loss? It's never happened to me. They are one of the few things you can buy and enjoy for years, then sell for more than you paid. I've sold some for twice what I paid. I suppose if you were facing an emergency and had to raise some cash quickly, you could lose money, but that is also true with stocks and mutual funds.

I worked with a guy that was a confirmed bachelor and made a lot of money working all the overtime he could get. One of the things he "invested" in was brand new S&W handguns. At the time, he had one of every S&W made, all unfired, and still in the original boxes. Unfortunately, he was killed in an accident on the job at the age of 55. He had just gotten married a few years before his death, and I always wondered what happened to all those primo handguns.

[geargnasher]

Guns are being made every day, all over the world.
Gold is being mined all over the world, and the cost is predictable.

They stopped making real estate about 2 billion years ago, and it will still exist long after any monitary system or civilization collapses. I'd buy property and set aside a little extra money in a stock-heavy mutual fund to pay the taxes. Sure dont' want to buy bonds right now, interest rates are about to go through the roof.

Gear

[mike in co]

i'm sorta in the sporting goods business. brass sales. which puts me at a good many gun shows.
i have a friend that has 3-4 tables at every show, and probably sells less than the tables cost. but he manages to buy a few odd collectable things. once a year in denver that have a unigue collectors show....nothing newer than 1957 or something like that. all table contents are pre approved. no junque.
at this show, the same gentleman made 17,000 us dollars on sat am........he buys wisely and then sells at this show.
so you can make money in guns. but it is work.
guns are a free market item....sell local and in your state, typically no paper work , no taxes..no income to report.
this requires preplanning...buying quality while you work, so it will fund your retirement dreams.
lots of guns that have been on the market in the last 10 yrs have tripled in price..ak's sks's, makarov's k31's.
another friend has a basement full of swedes, and k31's.........just sitting waiting to fund his retirement fun.
all depends on your definition of "some money"

mike in co

[Bret4207]

If I came into a large sum of money I'd pay off my debt, build the larger shop/garage I need, invest in a good, solid tractor with loader and cab (no a/c thank you) of about 85 hp, have someone fix all the little stuff in the house on my wifes list and save the rest.

[crabo]

Buying guns for an investment, means that you are counting on people having a lot of disposable income when you want to sell. That's not a good bet in this economy, in my opinion.

[nicholst55]

One firearms-related item that I think will appreciate in value are suppressors (silencers). They are legal in almost all states and are relatively inexpensive at this time. A top-end unit won't cost over $2,000 - at least, not that I'm aware of.

The reason I say this is that I fully expect Congress to eventually ban manufacture of new suppressors for civilian sales, just like they did to automatic weapons (machine guns) in 1986. The cost of any class III weapon tripled overnight, and they have only continued to increase. I don't know too many people who can afford to invest in a half-dozen M16s at $10-15K a pop, or 2-3 M60 MGs at $20-25K a pop. Most of us could, however, afford to set back a half-dozen suppressors at $400 a pop (plus a $200 federal tax stamp), over a period of a couple of years.

Once again, they do require minimal maintenance, and they must be secured to prevent misuse. The potential to make a profit is definitely there, however. Granted, you are speculating that the value will increase dramatically, but you certainly shouldn't lose any money doing this.

[Wayne Smith]

My answer would greatly depend on how much you came into. Enough to buy a gun, unless already a collectable, would not be enough to buy an appreciable amount of land. For relatively small amounts either shop for what you want in firearms and then evaluate the possible investment potential or invest in a managed investment account. For larger amounts I agree with the idea of investing in carefully selected land. You can loose money there, too.

[Mk42gunner]

If I came into a large sum of money I'd pay off my debt, build the larger shop/garage I need, invest in a good, solid tractor with loader and cab (no a/c thank you) of about 85 hp, have someone fix all the little stuff in the house on my wifes list and save the rest.

I think I would go with Bret's suggestion, although the tractor would probably be around 40- 50ish HP with a decent baler to feed the kids horse that she never does anything with.

Robert

[theperfessor]

I am, and have been investing in tools and knowledge. If I have good tools and enough knowledge I can do what others can't and get paid or barter for what I need.

Just my strategy, YMMV.

[Beekeeper]

Its not me guys, honest!
I am one of the ones living on social security and what few bucks I rat holed over the years.
I have a neighbor who received payoff from a will (Uncle I think) and is all hot and bothered about spending it as soon as possible.
Read on his survival site about buying all the guns and ammo you can afford to be ready for the SHTF days.
Tried to talk him out of it but no go.

Got me to thinking on what I would do in the same circumstance.

I agree , as much as I like guns I am not sure If I want any more.
The spray and pray type do not appeal to me and I have all the old ones I want ( not that I would turn one down if it came at the right price)

I like the answers everyone gave and will show them to him when I see him next.
Thanks


Jim

[SharpsShooter]

He who has the tools ..rules. I'd clear debt, replace the aging Ford, provide for my kids education and then tool up. Of course I'd have to invest in a nice double rifle too :D

SS

[OutHuntn84]

Here is a been there done that story for ya. A few years ago I had a collection of guns ammo reloading supplies ect. that had a value of approx. 130k at the time. I am not rich nor was I a benafactor. I simply bought one gun for a good deal played with it improved it if I could and sold it for more than I paid. Didnt do it alot but enough to afford a great collection. Even afforded me enough money to buy a few safes to store em in.

I was very proud of my investments, couldnt lose money, better than gold! If somthing happened no problem sell this one and keep trucking. Then one night we had a house fire. It was a total loss. 130k up in smoke and that is all I'm gonna say about this sore subject.

You can make money on anything, just about. Give more thought to it's security, can it be by some act of theft, God, ect reduced to nothing.

I tend to agree with Bret. Buy land! Good piece of land increases in value almost daily. If it burns it will come back greener. If it floods it will dry. If someone drops a dang bomb on it ya gotta lake. Best of all they aint making any more of it!

[JIMinPHX]

Variety is the spice of life. Get a bunch of different things.

[S.R.Custom]

IN this market, I'd have to say real estate.

If I weren't quite so practical (or if Real estate gets crazy expensive again), I'd buy all the S&W Triple Locks I could get my hands on.

[captaint]

The thing about buying guns is, you can't be in a hurry. I think most of us here that have a decent number of guns have bought them over lots of years, when good deals on good guns pop up. Even new guns...you just know when certain ones are going to be worth lots more in years to come. But "let's go out and invest, say 50 grand in guns this year" ?? Nope. Not me. Buy land. Like one of you guys said, they're not making any more of that. enjoy Mike

[Von Gruff]

The thing about the shtf guys is that monetary systems break down so investments are worthless (just ask them who went through the late 20's early 30's) My parents did and both had rural family so lessons learnd are held to. The most important thing is to be able to put good food on the table every day.The way I would go is to continue what I have been doing and that is to work towards self suficiency. Have a half acre with a good garden, enough guns to hunt with and look after my family and tools and skills to trade with, for what i cant grow or hunt. Have powder, alloy, and primers enough so first would be "improvements" to water containment and a power source.
Even if it is never really needed it is a relaxing way to live the land-buildings still apreciate in value.

Von Gruff.

[Bret4207]

Tools, land and knowledge. The rest is just stuff.

[rhead]

I would pay off debts if any. Then save 20% of the balance as cash in case the stock market starts looking less like a black hole. 60% of the balance into land or land improvements. The remaining 20% would be split evenly between guns(and ammo) and gold or silver. diversify. If the large sum of money is not that large then pay the debts down as much as possible.

I read the post I did not necessarily agree with the conclusion.

If everyone agreed on the future value of an investment then no transaction would take place.

[runfiverun]

coins, silver and gold ones.
they will always have value especially after a shtf situation.

[Bret4207]

I keep thinking about silver and gold. I'm not so sure on the idea they have as much value as we think. Most people today couldn't tell silver or gold from other materials, me included. I know in my case if some stranger same up and offered me "gold" in exchange for a cow for instance, I'd not be selling based oon his assertion it was real gold, of the right weight for the value, etc.

I'd be far more inclined to barter.

[Poygan]

Bret, I think most people would recognize and value the old U.S. silver coins. To a lessor extent, they may be confident with the old U.S. gold coins. Now, gold and silver bars may be totally different. How would anyone know if they were real and what the actual gold and silver content was? But if folks no longer trusted our paper money and clad coins, what will be used in their place. Its easier to carry some coins into town than taking a cow there and then coming home with three dozen chickens.

[jlchucker]

If I came into a pile of money I probably wouldn't spend it on another gun. What I've already got pretty much takes care of my immediate needs. Instead, I'd drop the price on the house I'm living in so low that even nowadays somebody would buy it, then build me another place on a 50 acre plot I've got. Nothing fancy, but I'd put up a separate workshop building, a detached garage, and probably put in a one-acre or so pond. Once all of that was in place, I'd probably invest in a beer keg cooler, pull me a frosty one, and go out on my front porch to reflect on my good fortune. On the following day, I'd maybe go to my local Legion club and make a contribution towards sending a few local kids to the next Boys State. Later, if I thought I needed another gun, I'd buy one if one caught my fancy.

[Beekeeper]

Showed all of your posts to the guy that got the money.
His answer < That is not what my buddy on the survival website said and I trust him.
He did say he was going to buy some land for a bug out site tho.
Couldn't talk him out of spending it as it seems to be burning a hole in his pocket.


Jim

[Bret4207]

The survival websites are broken up, generally, into 2 types- the farmer and the Rambo. The Rambo type (gear, gear, gear) predominates.

[Wayne Smith]

If he's going that way give him a subscription to Mother Earth News!

[cajun shooter]

Do any of the buy guns people have any kind of medical problem? If the SHTF happens and you are a insulin diabetic then I would rather have a truckload of insulin. All the guns in the world would not keep me alive very long. I also have a pain infusion pump that feeds Dilaudid to my lower spine 24-7. It has to be refilled every three months or I could go into a coma. In other words if you look back in history the life span was very short because of the lack of doctors and medicine. A very small and simple wound can put you in the ground. I would prepare for as much as possible on meds and training to stay alive. Or you can pin a note on your chest as was done by the guy in Jeremiah Johnson and hope that some one finds and takes care of that Hawken.

[Bret4207]

IF any of us steps back and takes a cold, hard look at what we would actually have to do to survive...it's not a pretty picture.

As far as the whole survivalist "think" type of websites and books, they tend to over do the gear, gear, gear and almost nothing on the practical skills and mental side of prepping. The doomer fiction is even more so that way.

He's a post I made on another forum that got a few chuckles from the crowd regarding the people who listed "doomer fiction" as a way to prep for TEOTWAWKI-

"Oh man, "World Made by Hand". I read a short excerpt and got so charged up I actually paid full shot for the hard cover at Borders! If you want a book that shows what sitting on your butt waiting for someone else to do something for you, if you want a "hero" that's a loser, if you want a lot of new age hoopla mixed in with Kunstlers normal fears and eccentricities then it's a decent book. It's way more sci-fi than doomer fiction. He has a sequel "The Witch of Hebron" that I'll wait for with less than baited breath.

How about books to stay away from? Here's my list of some books that are a waste of money AFAIC for prepping and a brief reason why-

"Patriots-surviving the coming collapse"- Gear, gear, gear, no end to money, protagonists that are superhuman in ethics, morality, resources and judgment. Useless.

"The Long Emergency"- There are about 10 paragraphs of worthy information and the rest is made up of Jimmy Carter worship, Global Warming hype, Kunstlers fear of anyone even slightly different than him.

William Johnstones "Ashes" series- Entertainment? Yes. Anything any normal human being could possibly hope to accomplish- no.

The Left Behind series- Yes, I have actually seen people refer to this series as "prep material". Please, besides being written on the 8th grade level I'm not about to base my future on someone depiction of what God and the Anti-Christ may do. Should the End Times come in my life time I think all bets are off.

Frugal Squirrels, Time Bomb 2000, Life after the Oil Crash forum...all have doomer fiction. Some is decent, some is good, most is made up of lines and plots that remind me of the stories my 7 year old tells, or maybe a bad porn novel. There are 2 main plots-

Scenario 1- Incredibly rich guy, usually ex-military/CIA/NSA, builds retreat in incredibly expensive/remote area and fights off hordes of mutant zombie bikers using incredible array of incredibly expensive exotic weapons while having incredible relations with his incredibly gorgeous ex-super model Christian sniper wife who produces incredible meals from their unbelievable stock of incredibly expensive stores transported to their Fortress of Solitude in their incredibly expensive Bug Out fleet of super vehicles equipped with every option ever conceived by mankind.

Scenario 2- Normal everyday Joe gets caught with his pants down more or less, but manages to persevere though incredible luck, a few outright miracles, the fact everyone else except his friends and the bad guys die of a strange disease or starvation. Hero kills off bad guys using incredibly expensive array of exotic weapons pilfered from dead people, abandoned exotic weapons warehouses or donated by kindly incredibly wealthy prepper while having incredible relations with his incredibly gorgeous ex-super model Christian sniper wife who produces incredible meals from their unbelievably productive garden.

Okay, as you can see I have a little higher than normal expectations. It takes time to find the decent stories. If you want real info then best to start looking for homesteading info and war manuals.

[82nd airborne]

Bret, you just crushed my dreams of the incredibly romantic, action filled end of the world, where somehow no bullets could ever hit me, when I'm being shot at all the time, and I never miss. Darn.

If you did come across money, may I suggest starting a buisness so that you can sustain an income with a one time investment?

[waksupi]

All the gear, guns, and goodies in the world will do you no good, if you haven't developed the skills to deal with every day life without conveniences. Just from my lifestyle, I have learned how to do many things. And if I happen to see a book in the library on a subject I don't know how to do, or even have much interest in, I will undertake to learn how to do that particular thing. I may not master it, but I gain a working knowledge of something that may be useful in the future. This has worked out well many times in the past.
I doubt I will learn anything of substance in a work of fiction. I DO learn things from Wilderness Way, and a couple other sources.

[fryboy]

anyone recall Y2K ??? lolz while everyone else was paying premium for various goods i stocked up on cheap and humble .22 rf's .. wampum of a future apocalypse ,the ammo hasnt ever gone down to my knowledge and what would one give to turn their club back into a tool ? but could u trust who'd u'd trade ammo or guns too ?
sadly land can be taken away and u cant take it with u , a collapse of the world as we know it could mean that any claim u have to that piece o dirt could become null and void ,even if fortified and fought to the death
some guns and especially ammo would undoubtedly increase in value - especially if made illegal ( on the black market of course ) the para-military weapons would be wise in this case , their prices will and do fluctuate and now isnt the best time to buy them but it's better now than never ,and that mentality amigo's is part of why components and everything else related went up so much and became scarce when the current administration took office
i have to agree with the theory of spreading it out of needed various non perishables and a rotating stock of essentials ( non perishables being ammo,guns,gold,silver,food stuffs,even tp ) the clad change we have now as well as the paper funny money will be worthless , the old solid copper pennies will retain more value lolz ( and have )

[DIRT Farmer]

I have read all of the posts, from my past experience, the number of people who can live comfortably for the two or three days after a tornado tears up a small town or a major flood inconvenices transportion, how about the ice storm a few years back. Most people can't live comfortable if the loose power for 24 hrs. I have seen hungry people without any thing to drink after 24 hrs. Think what you have on hand and how to use it. If you are hungry because the stove dosen't work, why diden't you think of the gas gril. I have seen this. As far as a SHTF most will starve or dehydrate in a week.

[MT Gianni]

If I came into money and wanted to earn money on guns, I would buy a Pawn Shop.

[ammohead]

We should be encouraging the "stuff" buyers. Lord knows our economy needs the stimulus of thousands of potential survivalists shopping for stuff.

But how much stuff can you carry? A large percent of people live in urban areas and if the SHTF they won't be alive long if they stay there. As already stated by day 3 they will be eating each other or their dog. Your best bet will be on the move with what you can carry and as far from others as you can get until the smoke clears. If you have a good stash place to come back to when the nutcakes are all dead even better. But the first 3 weeks will be brutal if you are in a populated area. And the only way to make it better is to get out if you can. The major traffic arteries will be clogged and filled with opportunist. And if you weave your way through backyards to avoid them you will be shot by some survivalist protecting all his stuff. Not a pretty thought. I am glad I never liked cities. Give me the barren "wasteland" of Nevada's deserts anyday.

ammohead

[waksupi]

I've been reading a book on Roger's Rangers. These guys were woodsmen, and still had times of starvation, and came to the point of cannibalism. I sounds like two weeks was about the limit of how long they could go when traveling light. Other readings on early days when game was plentiful, some still had extreme problems with survival. I think it boils down to, grow a garden!

[DIRT Farmer]

Learn to grow a garden, learn to preserve what you grow, learn to lite a fire and cook on it. Every body starts in basic.

[rhead]

anyone recall Y2K ??? lolz while everyone else was paying premium for various goods i stocked up on cheap and humble .22 rf's .. wampum of a future apocalypse ,the ammo hasnt ever gone down to my knowledge and what would one give to turn their club back into a tool ? but could u trust who'd u'd trade ammo or guns too ?
sadly land can be taken away and u cant take it with u , a collapse of the world as we know it could mean that any claim u have to that piece o dirt could become null and void ,even if fortified and fought to the death
some guns and especially ammo would undoubtedly increase in value - especially if made illegal ( on the black market of course ) the para-military weapons would be wise in this case , their prices will and do fluctuate and now isnt the best time to buy them but it's better now than never ,and that mentality amigo's is part of why components and everything else related went up so much and became scarce when the current administration took office
i have to agree with the theory of spreading it out of needed various non perishables and a rotating stock of essentials ( non perishables being ammo,guns,gold,silver,food stuffs,even tp ) the clad change we have now as well as the paper funny money will be worthless , the old solid copper pennies will retain more value lolz ( and have )

I have considered that too. I just have a little trouble with the question: If this guy did not have sense enough to store his own guns and ammo earlier, what is he likely to have for trade that I want. If you plan to eat learn to grow your own and get some land to do it on. It wi take a few years to get a garden or farm productive.

[home in oz]

modern military arms=sniper flavoured

[Just1Mor]

I think i would be the only one that is not putting money in buying gold. I would rather by gold mining equiptment because afterall, money doesnt group on trees but gold is laying all over the ground and you just have to find out where to look for it.

In a situation like that you need just enough to stablize and form a plan, protect your family and stay alive. what you do after that is servival and that means whatever you do to stay alive. This is in my opinion something that you cannot plan out long term. Knowledge is the only thing that you can rely on in that situation.

For me, i would gather all my guns, gold, and food for the time being and swipe a jack daniels trucks and sink it in the nearest lake to use as a barter item later. The gold i would take would be mostly jewelry to get by and the gold mining equiptment would go into rapid deployment. after that all you can rely on is you animal instincts and thats where most of us will servive. you do what you have to do in that situation and most unspeakable things will become normal and a part of daily life.

That is how i plan for the end. After that you build an army and fight back.....

[MT Gianni]

Learn to grow a garden, learn to preserve what you grow, learn to lite a fire and cook on it. Every body starts in basic.

I'll add learn to fish to that with trapping in second place.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I have read all of the posts, from my past experience, the number of people who can live comfortably for the two or three days after a tornado tears up a small town or a major flood inconvenices transportion, how about the ice storm a few years back. Most people can't live comfortable if the loose power for 24 hrs. I have seen hungry people without any thing to drink after 24 hrs. Think what you have on hand and how to use it. If you are hungry because the stove dosen't work, why diden't you think of the gas gril. I have seen this. As far as a SHTF most will starve or dehydrate in a week.

I actually look forward to power outages! Good practice! Unfortunately ours only seem to last for an hour or four . . .

I've had gone so far as suggest that I just go out and pull the main breaker, but my wife didn't go for that!

I've got food, and a few ways to cook it, a way to keep the fridge/freezer going . . . water to flush and drink . . . my doggie alarm doesn't care if there is no electricity!

[Bret4207]

I actually look forward to power outages! Good practice! Unfortunately ours only seem to last for an hour or four . . .

I've had gone so far as suggest that I just go out and pull the main breaker, but my wife didn't go for that!

I've got food, and a few ways to cook it, a way to keep the fridge/freezer going . . . water to flush and drink . . . my doggie alarm doesn't care if there is no electricity!

We did 15 days in sub-zero temps with no main line power in '98. Not fun. Ever try watering over 100 head of stock with no power?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

No Bret, and I don't have any stock to feed or water . . . yet!

The most time I can recall being without power was 3-4 days when we lived in Vermont, and it was usually ice storm related, we had wood heat, and my Mom was good at keeping the pantry stocked up, we ended up melting snow for water . . . takes alot!

But good practice!

Please tell how you got that much water, good to share knowledge and experiences.

[82nd airborne]

We lost power for over 2 weeks in the last ice storm, if I can have electicity, Ill take it.

[DIRT Farmer]

Yep, I'd agree with fishing and trapping, A trap will hunt all day and night. When funds were tight I have eaten some really small blue gill.
After a tornado I was sent to deal with a man who had COPD and required 02. He had left home with less than two hours supply to go to the bar on a stormy night. Sometimes I diden't feel like rescueing people, as we had injured to treat at that point but he was tiraged up. I don't understand people who travel in the winter time without a coat, or a spair tire but have seen several of them . Darwin was wrong.

[PatMarlin]

How bout' a fish trap? ...:mrgreen:

My friend died of that COPD last summer. That's some bad stuff.

[Bret4207]

No Bret, and I don't have any stock to feed or water . . . yet!

Please tell how you got that much water, good to share knowledge and experiences.

At first there was lots of water in the field drains since the ice storm had been preceded by heavy rain. So for the first 2 days it was okay, we'd take them to water. Then it got cold...below zero cold. Melting ice in the house for flushing toilets was one thing, melting a few hundred gallons? Quite another. I was working 12-14 hour day running the roads doing cop stuff (mostly rescue and assistance calls, even the crooks were house bound). I'd get home and start on wood and water. Mind you this is at 8-9:00PM. My neighbor farmer had a PTO generator so I'd haul 55 gallon drums of water. The worst night he and I were both still at it at 1:30 AM. He was milking over 100 head using buckets and vacuum off an old Farmall H and I was running water back and forth.

He now has a large diesel generator and I have a large PTO generator.

[pmeisel]

"lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Matthew 6:19-21

And don't neglect thinking about that last little bit for the treasures you do lay up on earth....