scratching my head and other body areas

[Chapped Lips]

..............:confused:.........
is there somewhere on this site that details what some of these 2letter and multiple letter abbreviations mean?

i can figure out PB and GC and HP
and some of the other ones.......but what does "BE loads" mean?

example..... #29
Chargar
Boolit Master

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: South Texas
Posts: 3,583

Just a little adendum with Dale's caveat in mind. To be certain, Dale is correct in that the reduced powder capacity when 452423 is seated in the ACP case for use in the autopistol, is indeed a matter of concern. I have determined that 4.5 to .4.8 grains of Bullseye is a safe powder charge to use. I would never go above 4.8 and would start at 4.5 and work up. 4.5 grains is a pretty stout load and I killed several deer with it.

Some folks load the longer/heavier 454424 in the ACP case and that decreases case capacity even more. Frankly, I would not be comfortable in doing that.

I am pretty comfortable with what I said above about the BE loads. I have never worked with any other powder for this combination of bullet, case and pistol. So, if you wander off the Bullseye reservation, your blood be on your own head. Also one needs to be certain his 1911 pistol has not been gunsmith improved into a piece of rattling junk. You also need no less than an 18 lb recoil spring.

and this just an example (no offense meant,Chargar) .......there are many more....i'm just a newbie and i'm guessin that other fresh-outta-the-egg folks are having this same ques....
.....at,least i hope so:oops:

[Maven]

BE = Bullseye pistol powder: Very fast; formerly made by Hercules, now made by Alliant.

[462]

I'm with you, not into chat room and texting abbreviations and acronyms. Took me quite a while to figure some of them out, others I haven't and tend to skip over them. I abhor the non-use of capitals, also. I overlook misspelled words, most of the time chalking it up to typing errors, as my fingers have a habit of wandering about the keyboard.

Other then etc., misc., I make a serious attempt at using nothing other than the word, although I have used FCD (Lee's Factory Crimp Die when it had already been used in the thread.

One of today's news items is about the lifestyles of the class of 2014. To them, e-mail is too slow, they don't know about corded phones, and rely on their electronic gadgets for the time of day. I wonder what percentage of them can write a complete sentence in plain, non-altered English.

End of rant.

[montana_charlie]

I wonder what percentage of them can write a complete sentence in plain, non-altered English.
I wonder how many of them can actually spell 'laugh out loud'...
CM

[462]

Good one, Charlie. LMAO! (Couldn't resist.)

[Guesser]

None of them can make change or tell time from an analog clock, either!!!!!!

[Beekeeper]

Along the same lines as Guesser I once recently had a clerk that did not know how to take cash, (had only been taught credit cards) and had to get a supervisor to complete the transaction.
She was crying when I left the store because I (the dirty old man) had tried to put one over on her.
The very idea using cash in todays modern world.

The only thing I asked was why not?
Her answer was no one she knew used cash as it was old fashioned.


Jim

[Mk42gunner]

Along the same lines as Guesser I once recently had a clerk that did not know how to take cash, (had only been taught credit cards) and had to get a supervisor to complete the transaction.
She was crying when I left the store because I (the dirty old man) had tried to put one over on her.
The very idea using cash in todays modern world.

The only thing I asked was why not?
Her answer was no one she knew used cash as it was old fashioned.


Jim

Good God. Half the fun of working used to be cashing your paycheck; then trying to sit level on a (hopefully) stuffed billfold.

Plus cash leaves no trail, for those gotta have it purchases.


Robert

[MtGun44]

I recently read that the new group of kids entering high school do not know how to
write cursive! Never owned wrist watch, never had a corded phone.

Bill

[noylj]

Can you define what "lose" and "loose" mean. Most of the younger generation write "I don't want to loose my purse" and "My pants are really lose since I lost weight."
They have to look at the pictures on the cash register or on the monitor.
They have no idea how tired one becomes from continuously hearing "you know" and "like," often "...like, you know..."
My generation was ignorant compared to my father's, and this generation is being driven into the ground of ignorance.

[Bret4207]

I recently read that the new group of kids entering high school do not know how to
write cursive! Never owned wrist watch, never had a corded phone.

Bill

I stand guilty of not being a good cursive guy. Block letters for me and when the arthritis flares up those block letters aren't any too clear either. Some of us just lack that gift.

I tossed the idea of clocks when I retired and usually can only guess at the day of the week.

OTH (snort!) I can chip out complex shapes with a hammer and cold chisel in metal and still use gasoline blow torches!

[44man]

I stand guilty of not being a good cursive guy. Block letters for me and when the arthritis flares up those block letters aren't any too clear either. Some of us just lack that gift.

I tossed the idea of clocks when I retired and usually can only guess at the day of the week.

OTH (snort!) I can chip out complex shapes with a hammer and cold chisel in metal and still use gasoline blow torches!
Me too, I print because if I forget what I wrote, I won't be able to read the writing later! :veryconfu
Old age makes me jiggle like a nut signing a check. Yeah, we still use the things. [smilie=s:

[Wayne Smith]

I carry a pocket watch, use a fountain pen, and my boys can spell, make change, use a computer, read a book (both have Master's degrees), and one reads time with a 'clock' that only has rows of red lights blinking! I'm falling behind and don't mind at all. I've never text'ed, never tweeted, and don't want to.

[qajaq59]

Remember the song? "Why can't they be like we were? Perfect in every way?"
I'm 71. But I remember when we were the kids that were criticized for every move we made. But we turned out ok.

I do wish some would use caps and punctuaton though. Then maybe I wouldn't just hit the mouse and not bother to read what they were asking.

[cbrick]

I agree on what I call alphabet posts, no caps, no punctuation, just long strings of letters.

They want a question answered and then intentionally make the question very difficult to read. I simply don't bother. If I can't tell where the first sentence stops and the next starts that's as far as I read, I move on to the next post or the next thread. They have made it quite clear that they want no response from me.

Rick

[qajaq59]

is there somewhere on this site that details what some of these 2letter and multiple letter abbreviations mean? To answer your question. I don't think so. And it seems like people make 'em up faster then anyone could list them anyway. [smilie=l:

[montana_charlie]

is there somewhere on this site that details what some of these 2letter and multiple letter abbreviations mean?
There are websites which try to cover the LOL, OMG, and BFF idiocy but the 'spontaneous abbrieviations' found in posts on this site are not defined anywhere.

I differentiate between 'spontaneous' and 'common' abbreviations. Some, like LLA, JPW, and COW, are used in many discussions, and aren't captive to any particular iteration of the shooting sport.

But, individual posters will suddenly(?) (or spontaneously) abbreviate a word or term, the meaning of which may not be obvious to his readers.

When it happens that context of the discussion leaves you with no clue about the meaning of an abbreviation, speak up.

It will (either) educate you about common ones that you didn't know are common...or it may induce the writer to be less lazy.

CM

[mpmarty]

Paying cash for stuff is my modus operandi of choice. Went to Kalifornika last year and stayed at a Motel. When I checked in the gentleman of asiatic extraction requested a credit card. I informed him I was paying cash. "No cash" he cried, "Credit Card Only!" I told him to please read the writing on the fifty dollar bill I extended and pointed out where it stated it was "legal tender for all debts public and private" he exclaimed he would not take cash and would call the cops if I didn't give him a credit card. I told him to call the cops. Cops came and informed the little a$$hole that he had to take my money. He stated there were no vacancies and he had no room for us. I whipped out my cellphone and called the chains' reservation number and confirmed my reservation. We got the room and the jerk took the cash. What is it with these idiots? I felt like telling him I used to get paid for "doing" people like him and with his attitude I'd be tempted to do him for free.

[SharpsShooter]

This may help or further confuse ya.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3857&highlight=abbreviations


SS

[mdi]

I recently read that the new group of kids entering high school do not know how to
write cursive! Never owned wrist watch, never had a corded phone.

Bill

Yep, my grandson, 21 yrs old, visiting us from So. CA, saw a PHONE BOOTH! First one ever. He had to stop the car and get out to take pictures (with his phone of course) to show his friends.

Have you seen anyone under 30 try to write? I'm suprised they can get any ink on the paper the way they grip/choke a pen!

[sargenv]

Oh, I don't know (I dunno)..

I know how to tell time using digital, binary, and analog.

I can write complete sentences. I also know how to create a paragraph, and usually know when to use punctuation. I usually know how to spell words, and when I am unsure, I usually place a (?) at the end of a word using that little group of symbols to show that it may have questionable spelling.

I am fluent in the art of Facebooking, emailing, texting, and using all manner of acronyms (it doesn't help that I work for a govt agency) and short text type words.. (lol, lmao, *****, omg, o ru? ***?! ou812?). I have yet to tweet in twitter, but I don't have much use for putting my thoughts into 140 character tweets.. yet.

I grew up in the 70's and mid 80's.. When I was a kid, there were these things called 8-tracks and I knew people who used reel to reel tapes for high end music. Video cameras still used film and the format was either 8mm or super 8 for home use.. I remember watching silent home movies on the one wall in our house that was big enough to watch them on. I wonder where all those home movies are now and wonder if Mom has had them translated to either VHS or digital.. something I should likely look into.

I used a cassette tape to listen to music and remember when the music CD came out. I had an Atari 2600 video game and then later a Commodore 64 computer. I upgraded to an IBM Compatible 486 PC in 1993 and had a 14,400 baud modem that I used to get myself onto a BBS.. remember those? I met my wife in an IRC chat room in 1996 and we were married in Feb of 1997. She moved here in March of 1998, we are still together. I bought our first cell phone in 1999. Her car was unreliable and I wanted her to be able to call for help if need be.

I currently work as a Computer technician.. I have a bunch of different logins, about a dozen email addresses, and I own an Iphone.. which makes checking all those emails very easy.. I don't wear a watch anymore since the phone pretty much does everything I want it to.. personal schedule, gps, game machine, and it even can be used as an actual phone.. go figure :)

I've also been a reloader since about 1987.. and started (finally) casting boolits last year.. and I ask myself why the heck didn't I start sooner? :(

In conclusion, we all do as much as we want. We can embrace technology or ignore most of it.. This thing called the internet is truly amazing but other times it is a bane.. one thing is for certain, if I were to rely on the few books I have that talk about casting, I likely would not have started casting with the confidence I have now. I have yet to experience the Tinsel fairy (I'd never heard it referred to that until I read about it here) and I hope I never meet her.. (or him, never can tell these days). Anyway, that's all for now.. until someone else makes another post that I can comment on :)

[montana_charlie]

Have you seen anyone under 30 try to write? I'm suprised they can get any ink on the paper the way they grip/choke a pen!
I suppose it won't be long before it's no longer acceptable to sign a contract because the 'youngster' can't read the terms, nor write his name.
He'll just provide his PIN...

CM

[qajaq59]

montana_charlie. I'd have answered sooner but it took me a while to stop lauging and get off the floor......

[Down South]

I still write a lot but the older that I get, the worse my writing is. It's almost to the point that my writing looks like a doctor did it. (I wonder where doctors learned to write)

[Crash_Corrigan]

I graduated from a Catholic grammar school in 1956. I had the choice of using the school supplied ink well and my own dip pen or my own fountain pen that used fluid ink. I had Parkers, Watermans and Schaeffer pens. We used thin felt backed blotters to prevent smearing of the wet ink.

Ball point pens came out in 1955 and I never did like them. They needed too much pressure and after a while it hurt my fingers. I could write a lot faster and better and for a longer time with an ink pen.

I guess I am a Trogdolyte. I still shave with a straight razor and sharpening strap made of leather. I still use a shaving brush and shaving soap. I still use a fountain pen. Zippo lighter. When I write a letter.....I write a letter on real paper with a real pen....stamp and all.

When I give my word....I keep it. If I am supposed to be somewhere at a certain time....I am there. If for some reason I am delayed...I call. If invited out to dinner I recepriocate in a reasonable period of time. If given a gift I send a thank you note. I tip my hat (I still wear one) to ladies, open door for them and give up my seat for one on public transportation.

In other words I have manners. I do not speak nor suffer to be spoken filthy language in my presence nor do I demean or speak ill of persons not in my presence.

I have and use a cell phone but I do not use it whilst driving nor in a public place. I feel that speaking on a cell phone in a public place is impolite and I will not do this.

I tend to use cash for my purchases and I am amazed that it produces such confusion and delay when my clerk or whatever is young and used to the use of credit cards or debit cards.

I guess I am a throwback to earlier times as I could remember "Duck and Cover Drills" at school. I remember when at midnight the TV station would play the national anthem and show a movie of the American Flag on the screen and then sign off for the evening and a test pattern would appear on the screen until the next morning. I remember milk in glass quart bottles being delivered to my stoop into a metal box by a real person. I remember going to the movies and being shown a few full color full action cartoons and then two full length feature films for only 50 cents. A slice of Pizza cost 15 cents and a coke in a cone shaped paper cup in a holder cost only a dime. When a Snickers bar cost a nickel and was bigger than today's version at 89 cents. When a new Chevy cost $1800 and had turnable Zerk fittings on grease points. When a visit to a gas station caused a flurry of activity. A guy would come to the windown and ask how much gas I wanted. Another would clean the window. Somebody else would check the pressure in the tires, another would check the oil level in the engine and we could get a lot of change from a $5 bill and the tank would be full of gas.

At the same gastation there would be a case (wooden) containing 12 quarts of oil in glass bottles with long metal necks. This same gas station would gladly reline your brakes, lube your chassis, change your snow tires (either way) tune your engine, flush and refill your radiator, change your thermostadt or a myriad of other services would be provided including FREE AIR FOR YOUR TIRES.

As a kid I played near my house with my friends from the neighborhood. We played roller hockey with steel wheeled skates which we attached to our shoes with clamps and leather straps. Chicago was a good brand. We played guns with various scenerios and cap guns which resembled western styled revolvers or even automatics. We played stickball, softball, baseball, football, skelly, ring a levio and a score of other games which used imagination and skills to measure the abilities of the participants.

When we got home from school we changed into play clothes and went outside to find our friends and we stayed outside until dinner time. We ate with our families at a real table in one room and talked to each other every day,. After dinner we did our homework and only then we were allowed to watch TV on a black and white small screen until bedtime.

We learned how to get along with our friends and others and developed interpersonal skills and such. In school we learned how to spell, read, write, talk, listen and add, multiply and divide in our heads. We did not have pocket calculators. I went to the library to get books and magazines to read. There was not any fast or easy checkout. You had to fill out forms and cards for each thing you borrowed. You could keep them for 31 days and the fines were only 2 cents a day. I read every copy of Outdoor Life and Field and Stream that I could get my hands on.

I would regularly read at least one complete book a week just for fun. Later in life I would consume novels at a two or three a week pace. I still do.

Yes, today I have a compute, a TV and a cell phone. I have embraced the newest and greatest stuff but my cell phone is 5 years old and I have no desire to utilize all the features of even that one. Much less a 4D version etc. All I want it for to do is make and receive phone calls. I do not have a VHS drive for my TV. I have a DVD drive in the comuter and that meets my needs.

I have one foot in the past and I am stumbling around in the present. I am 67 years of age and I cannot endure another 30 years of changes that are coming as I am still recovering from the previous 30 years of change.

I have maybe another 16 or years to inflict myself on my friends and neighbors and I look back at the past and it seems to have been a kinder and gentler time. I could be wrong but all this modern stuff have dumbed down our younger folks to a point where they are unsufferable to me.

Like I said before I am a Trogdolyte.

[qajaq59]

I had the choice of using the school supplied ink well We also had the ink wells. I remember them real good because I clapped erasers after school for several weeks for dropping an Alka Seltzer in my classmates. Boy, that was a long time ago.

[montana_charlie]

Uhhh...me too, Crash...although I have not yet gotten old like you.
I'm only 64...

CM

[casterofboolits]

Crash,

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt! Very well put. Kudos.

[82nd airborne]

Yep, my grandson, 21 yrs old, visiting us from So. CA, saw a PHONE BOOTH! First one ever. He had to stop the car and get out to take pictures (with his phone of course) to show his friends.

Have you seen anyone under 30 try to write? I'm suprised they can get any ink on the paper the way they grip/choke a pen!

Yeah, we are some terrible people. Worthless I know! So what generation raised us to be this way, you must ask yourselves, if we are pathetic. Listening to you guys makes me wonder if im even worth being here. Oh yea, which generation avenged our fallen from 9/11 (sorry for the abbreviation, I meant September 11, 2001) and kept us from getting attacked again? Which generation subdued a dictator responisible for the genocide of thousands of kurds? Was it the same generation that toppled the al queida and taliban regiems? I doubt it, the damn fools cant even write! I got both my purple hearts and my bronze star with v device for being a texting master, and knowing how to type with two hands simultaniously, NOT! Can we talk about casting now, or shall we continue the beauty shop talk?
sincerely,
Aaron, member of the worthless generation.

[qajaq59]

I've been waiting for one of the younger generation to speak up. Figures that it's an Airborne guy. Thanks for your service. And in 50 years you'll be saying the same thing about your grand kids. Same as our grand parents said about us. Every generation says it. And has forever.....
[smilie=l:
Qajaq59

[462]

82nd airborne,
I, too, thank you for your service. Please keep in mind that, although we may have returned home not as decorated as you, many of us here have had our wars, so please be more courteous. You are not the only one who has volunteered to defend our great country.

I hope you grow old and have a lap large enough to accommodate many grandchildren. Perhaps, then, when the subject of their latest gadget or fad comes up and you don't understand its usefulness or its popularity, and you tell them how it was when you were younger, they'll refer to you as "silly grandpa". I wear my silly grandpa badge with more honor than you can imagine.

[82nd airborne]

462, I'm not tring to flash any decorations at all. I sincerely believe that I should not get a purple heart when my dead friends get the same thing, I'm not worthy to recieve the same honors as they, that is why the three above mentioned decorations have NEVER been pinned to my uniform, just thrown in a box with the rest of my memorabilia. I will also state that every war befor the two that I was in was MUCH, much more demanding and gruesome. All respect to those before me. I was a little heated when I wrote that, from reading all the posts, that im sure were not meant dissrespectfully, and it showed in my writing. I just find it vulgar that the near 5,000 dead soldiers from the current conflict and many others who sacrificed, not me, I was paid for what I did, are lumped into the same group as a bunch of punks. No one cared to distinguish, but lay insult on the whole generation. I to know that our country is going down hill fast, because of the attitude and lack of self reliance of my generation, but not as a whole. Please dont think I mean to be dissrespectful to those before me, I just want those who have given all from my generation to get some amount of respect as well. Thankyou for your understanding and response. Once again, please dont think for a minute that silly ribbons mean anything to me, I'd rather have my friends back. I simply put that line to make a point. Maybe I shouldnt have.

qajaq59,
Thankyou kindly sir.

[Houndog]

82 Airborne,
I thank you for your service as well, but don't think for a minute your generation is the only ones that's been there, done that and got the t shirt! Sadly, every generation seems to have gone off to war, and it doesn't look like that will end before the LORD returns to reign over this Earth.

My biggest fear for our younger folks is they are not being taught critical thinking and to question everything, like so many previous generations were! They are being taught the book (or computer) says this or some teacher or college professor says that and it's the absolute gospel truth! That just makes lots of sheeple! I'm in contact with many young people almost every day and try to hammer home the "question everything" you are told! I DO NOT worry about their intelect nor their moral constitution! I grew up in the 60's, and anybody that grew up during that time knows how crazy that was! Most of us turned out OK. I worry about them not being taught the basics, such as writing without a computer or spell checker, doing simple math without a calculator, and figuring out problems without a book, or when any answer is ok, as long as you tried. Life dictates there are winners and loosers! The sooner our youth learn that the sooner they can figure out how to be on the winning side! Technology is a wonderful thing, but if you don't understand the basics you CAN NOT gain the full measure of what new technology brings.

[montana_charlie]

Never thought this might turn into a contest to see who brought home the most medals.
Some of us old guys would be better off comparing who got 'spit on' the most.

That national experience has a lot to do with all the 'love and hugs' being handed out today...even by those who despise soldiers and everything they do.

CM

[82nd airborne]

Oops, seems I have been misunderstood. As I stated above, I think the current conflicts shy in comparison to the past wars. I know this because my family has participated in dang near every one. I did not mean at all that this generation of Americans are the only to sacrifice, in fact they have sacraficed the least. Here is what I was trying to say minus the temper: not all of us (current generation) are oblivious to the piss poor condition of our country. Forgive me if it seems I came of as arrogant, as I apparantly did, not at all my intintion.
Regards,
Aaron

[462]

82nd airborne,
Understood.

Montana charlie,
We never got the "thank you" or the "welcome home", did we? Recently, while at the range, an older gentleman, who had been a Marine, jokingly called me baby killer. Forty-plus years later the stygma is still there.

[82nd airborne]

Thankyou sir, for allowing me to redeem myself, no harm ment. Montana Charlie, and all others who served, although late, myself and many others from my generation do thankyou, and think about the sacrifices made on a daily basis. I hope that I can raise my children in such a manner that they too pay homage to those who pay for their freedoms. Thankyou gentlemen, and I appologize for the angry undertone.
Regards,
Aaron
I cry like a baby everytime I watch WW2 in HD on history, with no shame

[montana_charlie]

Montana charlie,
We never got the "thank you" or the "welcome home", did we? Recently, while at the range, an older gentleman, who had been a Marine, jokingly called me baby killer. Forty-plus years later the stygma is still there.
That stigma might go away if Jane Fonda, John Kerry, and a few other low-lives would up and die.
But, they stay in the public view enough to keep the old thoughts alive, and they've managed to hang on long enough to educate the younger generations.

After some time to think it over, I may owe 82nd Airborne an apology.
Crash Corrigan wrote a long one that detailed how he looks at life. Much of it was about 'manners' as he was taught them.

Among most of us vets who served prior to (say about) Desert Storm, we pretty much make it a habit to stay mum about medals unless somebody asks a specific question.

But 'manners' is a changeable thing. Crash talked about tipping his hat to the ladies.
I have never seen a 20-something even open a door for a female...much less tip his hat. It seems that is no longer included in what passes for 'manners' these days.
Plus, now they have to reach around back to get a grip on the bill...tip the hat...and use both hands get the ears tucked back inside the headband when they get it back on their head.
If I had to work that hard to have good manners, I might stop, too.

Anyway, it might be proper among the younger crowd of warriors to talk freely about awards and decorations. Might even be considered good manners to blurt it right out...and bad manners to hold back.

If I was 'insensitive' to the current crop of new vets, I should apologize.

CM

[82nd airborne]

Montana Charlie,
There is definately no need for apology, most likely that is on me, so I appoligize. I surely didnt mean for the sentance about decorations to sound arrogant as it indeed did. Id much rather be able to actually lift my daughters everyday and walk right than have a dang ribbon. I merely meant it separate from the people in this nation that have no idea what the cost of being free is. I now wish I wouldnt have put it, but as I said before, Ive never even wore them, dont have them on my liscense plate, and dont deserve attention for them, but I will leave it, because in real life you cant take back words, and this should be no different.
As for respect for ladies, I would slap myself, if my father didnt beat me to it for allowing my wife, mother, or any other lady to open a door for herself if I am anywhere in the vicinity. This is something that my children will also grow up doing or else....in this part of rural arkansas, it is not uncommon to see a young man open a door for a lady, I wish it were so elsewhere, we might would have a better nation and image of young men.
I appologize for the misconveyed message, and the apperent disrespect. I did not mean it as such. That said I spoke out of turn, for which I am sorry, carry on gents.
Aaron

[82nd airborne]

Oh yea, a handshake to me means more than a signature, just another thing that was passed down to me, that I hope does not pass away. Also included is eye contact when speaking to another.

[montana_charlie]

Okay, here's a (virtual) handshake, Aaron, and we'll call it square.
Charlie

[82nd airborne]

Sounds good Sir, here's an ultra-firm handshake and a look in the eye back to ya. Ill do my best to not tap at the key board when aggitated. Never works out well to open the trap before you're cooled off.

[blackthorn]

My dad served in the first world war and my uncle served in the second! I have nothing but respect for those who served so that I did not have to! I was born in 1939 so I am 71 and circumstances were such that my services to Canada have never been required. That said, Crashes post stirred up a lot of memories that are applicable to me as well. Last christmas my grandaughter (now aged 25) gave me a little book and asked if I would use it to write down some of my family history and some of the stories I have told (and probably retold) her over the years. I have therefore worked to put together the document (little book was too small so used the computer) she requested and after reading the post done by Crash, I think I will use it (with some modifications to "fit" me) as an introduction to the stuff I am putting together for her. Thanks Crash!! As a side note: My grandaughter looks at me funny when I insist on walking on the traffic side of the sidewalk but she just sort of shakes her head and humers me.

[Crash_Corrigan]

When WWII ended in August of '45 I was still pooping in my diapers. When the baloon went up in '50 I had just gotten my first Schwinn bike. When I tried to enlist in the Marines in "63 I was 20 but a medical condition caused me to be classified 1Y and I missed that also. However the NYCPD took me and was glad to have me.

In my service I went through the inner city riots of '66, '67 and the biggie in '68 when MLK got assinated. I was shot and I still have scars on my legs from Molotov Cocktails thrown from a rooftop in East New York in '68. I had little pieces of combat interspersed in my career of over 20 years. Yes I also have a buncha medals which were worn on a leather piece over my cop shield and I earned them. However when the affirmative action people got their way and the entrance requirements for new officers fell to the bottom in '69 and the average recruit was no longer the creme de la creme later on I kinda lost my warm and fuzzy feelings about the NYCPD.

One day in the 83rd Precinct in Brooklyn's Bushwick section I realized that I was the old man at age 41 and that the new Lieutenants that I would be competing with for the rank of Captain came from the '69 crew and that they would have the same advantages of being pushed up due to their ethnic and other attributes I decided to pack it in and pull the pin.

This was no longer the department that I had joined in '64. We had officers and bosses who could not write a complete sentence, had felony arrest records, had never driven a car until the department put them into a police car and gave them a license and at this point we had a openly Gay Captain bringing his significant other to Department galas. I looked around and realizied that as a male caucasian Lieutenant I had not a chance to make Captain as they changed the requirments for the rank of Captain also. No longer would the written exam count for a large portion of the overall evaluation. Now an oral interview would be the main criteria for selection of new Captains.

Now I have never had much such success in glad handing and politics and butt kissing so I knew my days were numbered. All the 20 year vets of the department had secure inside jobs in administration or clerical positions and would remain thereat until they decided to retire at age 63 or when they liked.

I was still working a chart and around the clock after 20 years and dealing with the unqualified personnel foisted on the department by the politicos who WANTED THE DEPARTMENT'S MAKEUP TO REFLECT THE COMMUNITY WHICH WE SERVED.

I could find nothing wrong with that aspiration but I expected to have a level playing field where everyone would compete with the same rules for everybody.
If a male white aspirant wrote a 99% mark on the written exam he might stand a chance of getting appointed. However a female aspirant would only need a mark of 80% to make it as there were so many slots for females to fill. Now if this female was black or hispanic then a 73% would be acceptable. A male black/hispanic needed only a 70% to make it. We a had a female mixed racial profile lesbian recruit who was accepted to the ranks with a written mark of 43% on the exam.

Suffice to say that we had people who could not complete a sentence. Who could not read a paragraph and get the meaning of it. When checking crime reports that required my signature as a Lieutenant Desk Officer many hours after the officer went home (because the civilian Police Administrative Aides were also affirmative action recruits and could not type) I started to call the Officers on the telephone at home when I could not understand their gibberish.

After about a week wherin 15 officers were requested to come and correct their reports under pain of discipline I began to see an improvement in the reports. Then a week later I was taken to task for picking on minorities etc by a higher command. I resorted to having the reports prescreened by their Sergeants prior to submission to me. This worked for a while but then the dumbed down recruits began to get promoted to Sergeant rank. With higher rank they still could not recogonize a sentence nor actually correct a written report.

I was again called to task for picking on our minorities. However in this last command the minorities were fast becoming the majority and I was still labeled the bad guy. Now the dumbed down Sergeants were competing for the rank I had. Again they were promoted based on their ethncity and sex and now I had peers who barely functioned.

It was time to go. I called the pension section and I was informed that I had to make an appointment to retire.....two weeks hence. Having calculated the terminal leave and my vacation I knew that I could retire on 8/1/84 a few days hence. I told the Police Administrative Aide in the pension section that I would be there at 0900 hours the next day and I would submit my papers at that time.

I did so and gave up all my department property, Patrol Guide, Helmet, Shield, ID card and mace and walked out of Police Headquarters on 8/2/64 as man with my civil rights restored. I would be drawing full salary until my anniversary date of 10/2/84 and thereafter would draw my pension of 50% of my last years salary.

Today when asked what I did before I retired I tell folks that I worked in the planning division of the sanitation department as a supervisor. I make no mention of my police service as the department today is not something of which I am proud. It sucks to be ashamed of the place you worked at for so many years but the policticians had dumbed it down so far that I was no longer proud to have been associated with it.

[82nd airborne]

I'd say you have the right to be proud that you stayed the same man from start to finish and didnt buckle to administrative changes, even if you choose not to be proud of your service. Its safe to say someone else is proud of your service, many of us here respect it.

[Chapped Lips]

jeez....never envisioned this ques would have taken this course.....

82nd airborne.....thanx for your service to this country and to those on either side of you.....after all,that's what it is all about when it gets dirty.....i'm sure you realize now that you and others that have served in our military were not the focus of the remarks.....they were intended for that great slimy pool of humanity that never will consider enlisting....nor do they appreciate your service and those that came before you.......

462 and montana charlie (mc-glad you don't reside in Vermont or Virginia) [smilie=l:......we did good....:drinks: #33 :drinks:....we know we did good.....it's the other 99% of the country that don't give a flip.....if ya get the chance read these two books.....STOLEN VALOR and UNHERALDED VICTORY.....
....it makes me happy to the point of choking up when i view this generation being celebrated on their return to home....at the same time i feel that sharp thrust of sadness when remembering our return.....
.....the stares...the "look-a-ways"....the whispers...the indifference...the loud yells....but what hurt me the most - and this is from MY experience - were the words i overheard from WW II vets... they should have known better....(no insults intended to any on this board - just MY experiences).....they were probably misled - along with the rest of the country- by mr. cbs....walter cronkite...
...i actually cheered when i heard of his passing.....but i'm just a tad DINKY DAU.

to any KOREAN vets on this board......your war was never forgotten....any neglect is the fault of the WW II generation's historians and correspondents.....they spent all those years concentrating on their OWN generation's remarkable military achievements and sacrifices and ignoring yours.....
.....and GOD only knows what they're intent was with my generation.....after all,we were just following the lead of our higher up's..... who were members of the ....WW II military!....(again,no insults intended-just my thoughts).

everyone has heard of Audie Murphy......
Audie Leon Murphy (June 20, 1925 – May 28, 1971)[2] was the most decorated American soldier of World War II and a celebrated movie star for many years in the post-war era, appearing in 44 films. He also found some success as a country music composer.

Murphy became the most decorated United States soldier of the war during his twenty-seven months in action in the European Theatre.[2][3] He received the Medal of Honor, the U.S. military's highest award for valor, along with 32 additional U.S. and foreign medals and citations,[2][3][4] including five from France and one from Belgium.[1][2][5]


but who has heard of Col.Bob Howard.....
[B]Robert Lewis Howard (July 11, 1939 – December 23, 2009) was a highly decorated United States Army soldier and Medal of Honor recipient of the Vietnam War. He was wounded 14 times over 54 months of combat, was awarded 8 Purple Hearts, 4 Bronze Stars, and was nominated for the Medal of Honor three separate times. He was laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery on February 22, 2010.

Howard enlisted in the Army at Montgomery, Alabama and retired as Colonel.

As a staff sergeant of the highly-classified Military Assistance Command, Vietnam – Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG), Howard was recommended for the Medal of Honor on three separate occasions for three individual actions during thirteen months spanning 1967–1968. The first two nominations were downgraded to a Silver Star and the Distinguished Service Cross due to the covert nature of the operations in which Howard participated. As a Sergeant First Class of the same organization, he risked his life during a rescue mission in Cambodia on December 30, 1968, while second in command of a platoon-sized Hornet force that was searching for missing American soldier Robert Scherdin, and was finally awarded the Medal of Honor. He learned of the award over a two-way radio while under enemy fire, immediately after being wounded, resulting in one of his eight Purple Hearts.[1]

Howard was wounded 14 times during one 54-month period during the Vietnam Conflict. He received two Masters degrees during his government career which spanned almost 50 years. Howard retired as a full Colonel in 2006.[2] His Army career spanned 1956 to 1992.[3]

According to NBC News, Howard may have been the most highly-decorated American soldier since World War II. His residence was in Texas and he spent much of his free time working with veterans at the time of his death. He also took periodic trips to Iraq to visit active duty troops.


actually Mr. Murphy and Mr. Howard both came from small towns in texas.....but one received national acclaim......and the other............................................. ................................................

....just my rant for the month.....

[82nd airborne]

That was an excellent history lesson, which I plan on reading a few more times. Thanks for taking the time to write it. Alot of stories of combat feats grow immensely as the person involved gets more popular. I like to hear of those that kept to themselves afterward, thanks to them.

[82nd airborne]

As for Vietnam vets, I do applaud you and wish you had the same support we did. I know its rough, although I'll never understand just how bad, as I was not there. My uncle never once talked about the war untill I got home and needed some one who understanded to talk to in the worst way. As we sat down and talked, he unloaded on me. It probably helped me more than it helped him. I can tell by looking into his eyes when we talk about it that it wasnt easy. Neither one of us really discusses any of it with anyone else much. One thing we will always have that the others will never have is the knowlege of true friendship. We know friends that would gladly give their life for ours, drag us out of an ally way with bullets flying both ways, etc. That, second to holding your child for the first time when you get home from the war, is one of the best feelings ever, knowing that your friends are closer than family, and that theyll do anything for you. Thats how it is for me anyway, but I might be a bit odd.

[45-70 Chevroner]

My wife and I don't tweeter, text, or send pictures via cell phone. We have 23 grand children and most of them have cell phones. I have looked at some of thier text messages, and I can't read half of the words because most of it is abreviated and not in the normal way. This texting is a language all it's own. These kids would rather text one another than to talk to each other.

[montana_charlie]

These kids would rather text one another than to talk to each other.
That's because the texting abbreviations only save time and effort when they are typed...not when they are spoken.

When speaking aloud, 'OMG' takes just as much breath as 'oh my God', and 'laugh out loud' is no more tiring to say than blurting out 'LOL'.

Besides, if two people were having a vocal conversation...but substituting 'text talk' for words...neither party would know where to stick their twitching thumbs.

CM

[462]

Chapped Lips,
Many years ago, I saw and bought a bottle of 33. Didn't taste the same. Perhaps all that formaldahyde was missing?

[montana_charlie]

Many years ago, I saw and bought a bottle of 33.
I've never seen any Ba Mui Ba beer in this country. But, there is a small bottle of nuoc mam in our kitchen cabinet...

CM

[Cadillo]

I agree on what I call alphabet posts, no caps, no punctuation, just long strings of letters.

They want a question answered and then intentionally make the question very difficult to read. I simply don't bother. If I can't tell where the first sentence stops and the next starts that's as far as I read, I move on to the next post or the next thread. They have made it quite clear that they want no response from me.

Rick

I'm like that too. If a post is not broken into paragraphs, I can't follow it, and so I don't even try. If a guy can't write, what the heck does he know that I want to know about anyway?

[Chapped Lips]

Chapped Lips, Many years ago, I saw and bought a bottle of 33. Didn't taste the same. Perhaps all that formaldahyde was missing?
.......more than likely charlie ain't peeing in it anymore.....

[Chapped Lips]

I've never seen any Ba Mui Ba beer in this country. But, there is a small bottle of nuoc mam in our kitchen cabinet... CM
CM....it's around....i used to find it in oriental food markets in phx....reckon there has to be a sizeable asian population .....you won't find it in kanab,utah, or chama,nm.

[geargnasher]

Good grief! I've seen some threads ramble, but this one takes the cake.

I'll add my two cents to this "beauty parlor" conversation. My mother is 64 this year, I'm 35. When I was a baby she washed my cloth diapers in water hauled in buckets by my father and heated on a wood stove. I didn't have an electric light to read my books by until I lived in a college dormitory. It took me months to learn how to sleep with artificial noise form air conditioners, fans, electric motors, etc. For fun when I was growing up, I made fully-functioning, scale-accurate toy guns out of wood with hand tools (no electricity), hunted, made bows from scratch, fletched arrows with buzzard feathers because we had no turkeys in the area, tied flies and fished the creeks and rivers for panfish with a #9 salt-water fly rod (given to me), and learned everything there was to know from the Foxfire book, including native herbology and medicine (dubious value), soapmaking, primitive crafting, weaving, I even built several good log sheds with a double-bitted axe that I sharpened with a homade whetstone. I was an only child an grew up alone, homeschooled by my parents. I mean "home schooled", I was actually educated. My parents fought the State of Texas in court for the right to do this, being one of the first families to combat the truancy laws and win. The caselaw precedent set by them has enabled the legal homeschooling of children by thousands of other parents, who unforunately in many instances, aren't nearly as qualified as mine were. My mother taught me to play the piano from the time I was five, taught me to touch-type on a Royal Portable typewriter a year or two later, my father read to me from birth and made many books from scratch (including the stories), shared his wealth of education and knowledge with me at every opportunity as well as his personal library and extensive collection of hand tools. I can garden, raise small livestock, cook (well), make a pie crust from scratch, can, preserve, make anything there is to be made from wood, sew (competently, by hand or machine), crochet, rebuild engines and automatic transmissions, plumb and wire a house to code, I could do this all night.

As a grown man making my own choices, I choose to take advantage of every modern convenience I can afford. I gave up my Waterman Fountain pen when it got to the point I couldn't even find tips at junk stores, much less bladders, and I refused to go to the cartridge pens, so I use Pilot V5s now. Crash, I gave up my beloved Zippo when I quit smoking, and gave away my fine pipes, too. Still have the Swiss Army knife my best friend gave me the day he left for Annapolis, and have carried it, except on airlines, every day since. I have accumulated power tools of all sorts for woodworking, basic metal working (sadly no lathe or mill yet), you name it. I have air conditioning, a computer, modern automobiles, laser sights, satellite TV, a formal education in two fields, Tempur-pedic mattress (on a handmade bed assembly of course), a cell phone, and progressive reloading presses. It is a personal choice. I still have old-fashioned manners, and it took me over fifteen years to find a girl in today's world who was old-fashioned enough to marry. By old-fashioned I mean values and beliefs. The handshake. Personal accountability. Responsibility to self and community. You get the point. Those were ideas taught to us by our parents and teachers, who's teaching that anymore?

I use hobby-specific abbreviations and jargon here because I'm lazy. If you don't know what ACWW+2%Sn is, ask. I'll be glad to explain. For the 98% of you who are familiar enough with the hobby to get it, I don't need to waste the electrons. I won't expect the general population to have a clue, that's called the responsiblity of context. Part of having manners. You address different people different ways. Younger people today have no sense of context (a common fact attributable to being YOUNG!) and worse, have no sense of responsiblity to express themselves in the context of the situation, they only know and care about what goes on inside their own small, dimly educated bubble. The result is they can't learn, because they are closed or prejudiced against anyone with a different point of view or who knows something they don't and wants to share. I try to know when is the time to be formal, when is the time to be informal, and when to be very, very assertive. Sometimes I screw up, overstep my bounds, misjudge the context, and ruffle feathers. That's life. If I'm misunderstood, I try to always make it right.

The point I am making is kind of along the lines of Airborn's rant, who made this generation so pathetic? It's the same limp-wristed, shifty-eyed bleeding-heart, granola muching, whale-saving, mentally disconnected fools that believe in Utopia but have no concept of the values or sweat that earned it, and are making this country so pathetic by spreading their disease to the fat, happy, haven't-ever-been-shot-at-for-their-beliefs, couch potatoes that make up a larger and larger percentage of America's population. The rest has been brought on by lawyers and entitlement-mentality have-nots. I don't listen to talk radio or troll the internet conspiracy sites, I came up with this all on my own because I'm a student of history and an observer of human nature. MY parents are educated and are teachers (three master's degrees between them), they are the kind of people that exist purely to bring civilization to young people. They spend Summers traveling and taking student class groups to Europe and the Mediterranian, as well as teach at foreign universites. Yes, they live like Mountain people even today, but that is, as it has always been, by choice, and they DO have manners not only appropriate to good americans, but those appropriate to the individual cultures of many other countries as well.

Education is everything, and it has been deemed uneccessary by technology. The thing is, although you can do math on your cell phone, you can't do etiquette on one when you meet someone important, like your next boss. You can't learn to form complex ideas and express them clearly and in great detail when your vocabulary is about 1,500 words and you learned to puntuate by watching sitcoms on TV. You learn that stuff being forced to write five-paragraph, persuasive essays over and over again until you UNDERSTAND what a thesis statement and supporting arguments are. You learn to write by reading those who know how to write. You learn to articulate ideas in a classroom or in a formal debate competition. Learning is difficult, and it hurts at first as the brain is forced to develop. Unfortunately, anything that takes effort or is painful has virtually been eliminated from public education. Who's responsible for this? Ask yourselves what you did to bring civilization, culture, and knowledge to your kids. I'll bet that, if they found it, it wasn't on their own.

Lots of people like to call me a "renaissance man" or some similar term they use for being reasonally capable and well-rounded in skill and education. They are amazed when I know how to do some obscure (to them) task. I wonder how they get through life. Where I come from, a man can end his sentences with prepositions, but he's expected to know it when he does, and he's expected to have a basic knowledge fund which includes how to maintain a car, write a letter, back a trailer, shoot, dress, and process game, fix leaky faucets, replace locks and windows, put a belt on the dryer, and protect his family from harm. The place I find myself today, kids have to use Google to figure out how to reseat a leaking toilet valve or cook a chicken. Who's fault is that?

Gear

[45-70 Chevroner]

Gear.
I think that took care of any doubts we may have had. Hear, Hear or is it here, hear.