Looking for a slip fit bullet mold

[Swede44mag]

I have a TC Encore 50cal and a Knight Predator 54cal I am looking for a slip fit bullet mold.

I looked at the White system where the bullet is a slip fit and loads easily down the barrel. Since White systems went out of business they are not readily available.

I have tried many different soft lead bullets TC Maxi hunter, REAL and others even sabot and jacketed Hornady XTP bullets. I have molds in both calibers but they are just too hard to push down the barrel. I am casting soft lead.

My problem is when I am Muzzleloader hunting deer if I need to get a second shot off quick I better have another rifle. I just can't get them down the barrel once it has been fired. By the time I take a spit patch to the bore the 1st or second deer has left the area.

Your help will be appreciated.

[mdi]

Isn't this why the Mini Ball (sp?) was invented? Easy loading in a fouled barrel, but the skirt expands into the rifling?

[Canuck Bob]

No intention to be disrespectful. I've hunted single shot rifle and muzzleloader. It is tough to get a decent second shot down range with either system. I certainly understand the frustration.

It required me to rethink my hunting style and techniques. It doesn't get mentioned much but when switching from fast repeaters like levers or those new fangled jammin auto loaders to a muzzeloader many ingrained hunting skills need adjusting. It seems self evident but it took awhile to sink in for me.

My best advice is find out what the local succesful bow hunters are doing. For me it became a game of close range ambushing rather than a spot and stalk with a good repreater.

Have you nvestigated some of the speed loaders. The Lyman cast manual discusses the evolution of the military muzzleloader rounds up to the US Civil War. Mini styles in paper cartridges was the last style before cartridges.

Please be aware, under no circumstances can you fire your blackpowder weapons with an air space above the charge. Many folks do not recommend slip fit bullets for hunting because they can shift while carrying and a stout load will blow the gun.

[Swede44mag]

I have tried Mini Balls but the accuracy isn' there.

My problem is the bullet or sabot is too hard to get down the barrel for a second quick shot. I have speed loaders they only help if I can get the bullet down the barrel. I split 4 different Knight ram rods, I have had to jamb the rod into a tree to get a second sabot down all the way. I have RA and don’t have a lot of strength to muscle a sabot or bullet down the barrel.

I have taken many deer with my in lines of different caliber I don't have any problem hitting the deer I limit the distance to less than 100 yards usually it is from 3feet to 25yards.

I have used patched round balls they load the easiest but the inline is not as accurate with RB due to a fast twist. I took a nice fat doe with one shot with a round ball but her sister didnt stand long enough to get a second shot rammed down the barrel in the rain.

If I can put a bullet in a tube (speed loader) dump the charge and ram the bullet down for a QUICK second shot I may be able to fill my second deer tag.

Thanks for your imput I don't get offended easly when asking for help.

[Harter66]

I believe the Maxi's are intended for fast reloads as well as to "scrape" the fouling from the bore . My Thomson Hawkens and its Spainish counter part shoot them well and remain accurate for 3 shots. My moulds , a 50 and 54 ,are Lymans. The boolits seem to just mark the bottom band and the top band is full bore dia the middle band seems to be somewhere in between.

I started off in MLs with the CVA buck slayer(?) bullets , the 3rd shot would go wild , they did load very easy even up to 6or7 shots with black or Pyrodex.

Just recently I tried 777 for the 1st time, with nearly 0 fouling 5 shot no swab groups are possible .

I wonder has anyone tried something on the order of perhaps a SWC of 250grs or so for the ilk of 50AE or S&W ?

[Swede44mag]

I will try the Maxi's in my TC Hawken 50cal Flint Lock, but I still need a slip fit bullet for the TC Encore & Knight. If I am right the rifling is shallower in the in-lines.

I may have a Maxi mold but I think it is in 58cal.

[Wayne Smith]

For the 50 try a .44 or .45 pistol boolit in a plastic sabot. It is almost as compressable as a patched ball and loads more easily because of that. There probably are sabots for the .54 but I don't know of any personally.

[XWrench3]

what i have found to be helpful on the second shot is to use a quickloader of one brand or another. i use sabots and xtp's. the thing that helped me out however, is to lube the sabot with bore butter (or anyother bp lube when i put it into the quickloader. there is just enough lube on the sabot, to help it go down the bore, dirty or not. actually, not is easier, but it does help on a dirty bore also. give it a try. and see if it helps you.

[Canuck Bob]

Perhaps some type of lubed wad under your first shot might keep your fouling softer and easier to ram the second round. Your rifles do sound tight in the bore.

My Lyman .54 Deerstalker does not require such force to seat the second bullet.

[NSP64]

Welcome Swede44mag. I have thought about making a muzzle loading double rifle, to have a faster second shot. What powder are you using?

[mooman76]

What minie's have you tried. I have the Lee target and improved minie in 50. A couple things you could try besides other minies is to size down the maxies some to make them fit easier or a fairly new powder Blackhorn 209. I have never tried it and may never because of the price but it is suppose to burn really clean and if it burns as clean as they say it should make loading a second load allot easier.

[Swede44mag]

Welcome Swede44mag. I have thought about making a muzzle loading double rifle, to have a faster second shot. What powder are you using?


In the TC Encore all I shoot is Triple 7, In the Knight Predator Pyrodex RS. I bought all Wal-Mart had a couple times when it was on sale. In my TC Hawken Black Powder only 3f for the barrel and 4f for the pan with a round ball.

[Swede44mag]

What minie's have you tried. I have the Lee target and improved minie in 50. A couple things you could try besides other minies is to size down the maxies some to make them fit easier or a fairly new powder Blackhorn 209. I have never tried it and may never because of the price but it is suppose to burn really clean and if it burns as clean as they say it should make loading a second load allot easier.

I haven't tried the lee target and improved Minnie in 50cal are they the same bullet?
Do you know what size the mike?

Thanks
Swede

[HEAD0001]

Have you slugged your barrel?? And do you know exactly what diameter conical you want to try?? Have you tried sizing the conicals you are shooting now?? And last but not least. Have you thought about shooting paper patched bullets?? Tom.

[mooman76]

I haven't tried the lee target and improved Minnie in 50cal are they the same bullet?
Do you know what size the mike?

Thanks
Swede

I'd have to check, but it is over .500. If memory serves they mike like .503. I quite using them because they are a tad too big for my guns. Not that they won't load but after the first fowling shot they go in tight and I figured I might as well be shooting a maxi if the don't slip in like they are suppose to. The target minie looks imilar to a WC bullet with TL type lube grooves. The Improved minie has more traditional type lube grooves and like a RF nose bullet. I will mic them and get back atcha.

[BBA]

Try sizing the conicals. Slip fit is nice but they also slip off the powder if you carry muzzle down. If you don't have a sizer, you can roll them between 2 hardwood boards, then check the fit. Any conical can be made to slip fit.

[mooman76]

My minies came out .501 for the improved Lee minie and the target minie came out .505. Funy thing was I never noticed before on the target minie it measures .500/1 most the way up except for a band at the top that bings it up to .505/6. I never got them this small before so I must have used a different lead this last time or something. That and when the mould heats up if you are doing allot they start droping a few thousanths larger.

[Blammer]

for your problem I would recommend trying real black powder, they tend to not create such hard fouling. Soft fouling will allow you to load a second shot rather easily.

As suggested earlier, you may want to try to put a lubed felt patch between the powder and the sabot. This will help keep the fouling soft for a second shot. The second shot you probably won't want or need to use the lubed felt patch.

Just an idea to try.

You may want to slug your bore (somehow) to try to find out what size bullet you'll need if you want a "slip fit" slug.

[staceyporter]

If you did not get your issue resolved on the slip fit bullets try "no excuses bullets" on-line. Dave makes slugs for the White rifles and I think he has some for regular .50 cal rifles as well. (Whites are bored at .504 and the slugs are .503 they shoot terrific. I shoot the buckbuster (actually cast my own from a mould I made that copies the buckbuster) Dave's price is good as well 50 slugs for around $25. Hope this helps. Also try the e/c loader from cabelas without a doubt the fastest follow up shot out there (less than 10 seconds) Side note: I can shoot my White Whitetail with the buckbusters all day long with no apparent loss of accuracy and no cleaning between shots. Doc White actually recommends you foul the bore before loading your first shot to help keep the bullet in place. I have never had one slip away from the powder charge even drivin 50 miles on dirt roads with the muzzle down in the truck, of course I always push the ramrod down and double check before leaving the truck. Good Luck!!

[onondaga]

You mention how many ramrods you have but you don't mention if you use a ball starter. If you don't that is most of your problem. Trying to start a ball, conical or sabot without a starter is too much for me too. A good starter is one with two rods attached to it, one that just starts the bullet 1/4 inch into the muzzle and also one about 6 inches long. When the bullet is in 1/4 inch You can really slap the handle as hard as you want with the 6 inch push. If after that, it isn't easy to ram it home with a ramrod , The other tips mentioned will probably help.

I have American Pioneer Powder,FFF. A substitute that runs so clean I have fired 40 shots and gone home then come back and fired more. I still have 4 pounds left but not sure it is available anymore. I shoot the Lee REAL 250 gr. pure lead with 70 gr. Volume of that stuff in my 50 cal Lyman Great Plains with a fast twist or slow twist barrel with no loading problems for either barrel whatsoever and can get a reasonably fast second shot, 10 to 15 seconds and use a reproduction leather/brass rotary capper that is very fast. I have used Pyrodex measured and BP measured they are both a squint more accurate but a lot harder to load a second shot. I tried the American Pioneer because it has no sulfur to give me asthma attacks and will not go back to sulfur again--I get the Pioneer Powder to shoot accurately by scale weighing my charges as the granule sizes vary wildly with that powder. I took an average weight of volume charges to set my scale to measure my charges equal in weight to the average volume charge. I carry the bullets loose in pocket and carry the charges in small tubes with a plug in the same pocket. Speed loaders slow me down a lot so I don't use them and the starters that come with them are annoyingly SHORT.

OH YES, important for me to ease loading the REAL: I tumble lube them with Lee Liquid Alox---That is what I wanted to tell you first. The powder manufacturer recommends no lube and says lube causes fouling with Pioneer Powder. All my cast bullets were long before lubed and I tried them to see if the Liquid Alox really made bad fouling and it didn't so I kept using it. The extra fine quality of bores on my two barrels may be the difference also. Those Lyman bores are glass shiny perfectly polished from the factory and have stayed that way with easy cleaning at the end of the shooting day.

[onondaga]

You mention you cast SOFT lead. There is a big difference between soft lead and pure lead. Pure lead from a reputable commercial alloy supplier costs little more but is certainly worth it to the serious muzzle loader shooter. I get mine here:

http://www.rotometals.com/default.asp

[BABore]

Carry both guns.

[excess650]

Where legal, I would recommend Blackhorn 209. It REQUIRES a 209 or 209 magnum primer for ignition, so won't work in a percussion or flintlock. Blackhorn is cleaned with a nitro solvent like Hoppes, and can be shot as many shots as you care to shoot without cleaning. This is what I would recommend in your Encore, and is what I shoot exclusively in my Omega. Quick 2nd shots aren't realistic with sabots, but at least you wouldn't have to swab between shots if using Blackhorn.

Maxi-balls work pretty well in many blackpowder rifles. Lee REAL bullets work similarly in that they engrave, or at least partially engrave at loading, and are somewhat dependent upon "bump up" during ignition. Maxi-balls can carry a lot of lube which will help keep fouling soft. Using a "balanced load" will minimize the amount of fouling, and decrease loading effort in a fouled bore. This generally means shooting a moderate charge. If you're limiting yourself to 100 yards, this shouldn't be an issue.

I've shot real blackpowder exclusively in my percussion and flintlocks. Most of the BP substitutes are sugar based and have relatively short shelf life. Pyrodex is different in this regard, but not my first choice. It is more widely available than BP as are the substitutes since BP is considered an explosive rather than propellant.

Minies are generally limited to lower pressures and velocities due to the skirts being somewhat fragile. Likewise, they may not work well in quick twist barrels.

MLer seasons are an opportunity to take game, but challenge the hunter. Your best bet is to be proficient with your rifle and make that first shot count!

[Maven]

Swede44m, As luck would have it, I used .50cal. T/C Maxi-Balls (pure Pb, home cast) in my Knight Bighorn on Monday and had very little difficulty seating a second or even a 3rd bullet. Sometimes I swabbed the bore with a damp patch, but on those occasions when I didn't, seating the Maxi- was surprisingly easy. Btw, I used a short starter and Ox-Yoke yellow stick lube (lubrisizer version of T/C Bore Butter or Traditions clone of it) and 70 grs. Graf & Sons (Wano) FFg. The yellow lube really does control the powder fouling and is still available at Track of the Wolf.

[jbelder]

I have a TC Encore 50cal and a Knight Predator 54cal I am looking for a slip fit bullet mold.

I looked at the White system where the bullet is a slip fit and loads easily down the barrel. Since White systems went out of business they are not readily available.

I have tried many different soft lead bullets TC Maxi hunter, REAL and others even sabot and jacketed Hornady XTP bullets. I have molds in both calibers but they are just too hard to push down the barrel. I am casting soft lead.

My problem is when I am Muzzleloader hunting deer if I need to get a second shot off quick I better have another rifle. I just can't get them down the barrel once it has been fired. By the time I take a spit patch to the bore the 1st or second deer has left the area.

Your help will be appreciated.

Have Rick aka Buckshot make you a large push through sizing die. He's making me one for a 54 cal. maybe use tripple 7 or something thats less fouling?