How Hard are Store Bought Cast Bullets

[tkcomer]

The reason I ask is, I bought some bullets that don't work. Too hard and too small for my application. A friend has a casting setup. It was left to him when his father passed away. But he hasn't used it yet. He has pure lead, so I was thinking about melting these bullets down and making something that I can use. Can I add pure lead to soften them up? And what would be a good ratio to use?

[NSP64]

Too hard. Whatcha going to shoot them out of and at what?

Best would be to melt the pure then add the store bought to get an alloy you can use.
Store bought are an unknown alloy , so you might start with 20# pure / 1 # store bought. cast some boolits, shoot them and see if thats what you want. You can add more store bought if you want harder.

[Bass Ackward]

Be easier if you had someone test the hardness of one, then you could ..... guestimate closer

[excess650]

The guys that I knew who cast commercially used 92-2-6 lead/tin/antimony and made hard bullets. They were fine if they fit, but leaded badly when they didn't. I still have some commercially cast that were too poorly cast to suit me, and will augment my normally softer alloy when I feel the need.

If you have pure lead, I would mix 2 or 3 parts lead to the hard alloy, and might even add 1-2% tin to the mix. They will harden whether air-cooled or water dropped, but water dropped gets them to peak hardness in a couple of days.

As some of the other listers alluded to, how much lead to hard alloy ratio depends upon your application. If you're just shooting wadcutters through a 38, they can be really soft, but if you're trying to make 2000fps with a rifle, they should be harder. A hardness tester is a good thing to have, but a reasonably well calibrated thumbnail and experience will give you an idea.

[DIRT Farmer]

Store bought boolits are like buying shoes without trying them on, they fit some of the time. I have shot some strange combos cast and they worked for what I wanted at the time. For some rifles and one pistol I need to know what they get fed. 38 Spl wadcutters for speed shooting, if it will cast, it will shoot, as long as I make it the right size.

[tkcomer]

I bought these bullets from Hunter's Supply for a K-98 Mauser. They are .324 and are a 170gr bullet. My gun slugs .317/.323. I think they are too short, to hard and too small for my gun. My friend tells me he has several molds for 30 caliber guns. Not sure what he has yet. I just figured I'd melt these bullets down and use them in my 30 caliber guns. Provided he has a mold that I want. I have about 400 of these bullets left. No sense letting them go to waste. If he has a good .431 44 caliber mold, I may melt the 200grn Laser Cast bullets down also. Those Laser Cast bullets lead the first few inches of my levergun with my low power loads in it.

[Rocky Raab]

Commercial bullets are harder than your mother-in-law's stare.

They are hard NOT because that makes them shoot better, but because it makes them SHIP better. Reloaders have made the unfortunate conclusion that since commercial bullets are harder than flint, that harder is better. Nothing could be more wrong.

Back in the day when cast bullets were genuinely cheap, I used to buy up "shelf queen" bullets that stores hadn't sold. I'd drop a handful into my mix pot with every batch of other lead - but never enough to over-harden the mix. (The lube even helped as flux.) I'm just guessing that those melts ran three or four parts soft lead to one of commercial bullets.

The suggestion to water-drop bullets that you are supposedly trying to get softer rather than harder makes no sense to me.

[Doby45]

One of my new favorite sayings that I saw on here somewhere:

They are harder than woodpecker lips.

[runfiverun]

most commercial are 2/6/92 alloy when mixed 50-50 with soft lead it makes my favorite revolver alloy.
which can be waterdropped for rifle applications if it pours to the right dimensions.
now if it pours just a bit too small, then i like a 4/6/90 mix which is great for target applications.
the lasercast are almost linotype hard @20 bhn [airc].
i'd boil the lube off the storebought before melting them down as a little lube is a good flux. 15 lbs of boolits worth is just a stinky black gooey mess.

[tkcomer]

So a 50-50 mix is right? I was thinking more of a 25% of pure lead added to the pot with my bullets. With Trail Boss, I doubt I'll get 1200fps out of the rifle bullets. And I'm thinking of going to Trail Boss for my 44. Probably no more than 1000fps in that gun.

[Echo]

I like the idea of cutting 50/50 commercial bullets to pure Pb, with 2% added tin. That will make a nice ductile alloy that will cast nicely, yet be hard enough for most applications. Close to WW, but w/added tin.

[tkcomer]

OK then, 50-50, but I doubt if he has any tin. Neither of us has cast the first bullet. Looks like a try and cry project. Another friend went to his place and they just melted some lead and made ingots. Just to see if the pot worked. I'm the only one that shoots cast bullets. But then again, I buy them. Not working out so good with the rifles.

[stubert]

i had a bunch of Lasercast bullets, bevel base, aprox. 25 bhn (as per oregon trails website) they were to hard and leaded, i mixed in pure until I got a reading between 13 & 15 bhn. they cast good and shoot good now.

[tkcomer]

That's good to hear. I need to soften these bullets up. They are too hard.

[870TC]

92-6-2 is the most common alloy used by commercial casters. Why?: Most use Magma machines and molds which are set up for this alloy. The bullets look nice, and ship well. They are hard enough to stand up to rough handling in transport, which is also the reason for harder lubes. I mix 50% pure in for my own bullets.

[Char-Gar]

"I bought these bullets from Hunter's Supply for a K-98 Mauser. They are .324 and are a 170gr bullet. My gun slugs .317/.323. I think they are too short, to hard and too small for my gun. "

Have you actually shot these bullets? Or, are you just working on theory? A commercial cast bullet of the traditional "taracorp magnum" alloy that are .324 should be neither to hard. to light nor too small for an 8mm barrel that runs .317X.323.

I am not a store bought bullet fan..but with a gas check and a good lube, these bullets should give at least decent performance in you rifle.

[MtGun44]

I'd definitely try the .324 commercial cast in a .323 bore if it were me. Good chance it will
be fine in that application. Optimum? Maybe not, I like at least .002 over groove, or even
.003, but you have a good chance at success as long as it is not UNDER groove diam.

I agree with what Chargar says. This is in approximatley the right diam and wt for a good
starting point. Try 10 gr Unique or 16 gr 2400 and you may be pleased.

Bill

[tkcomer]

Oh I've shot 'em. Shot a bunch with different loads with Trail Boss and Unique. I can't keep them on an 11X8 inch piece of paper at 25 yards. The FMJs are easy to shoot. I bought 500. I have 400 left.

[MtGun44]

OK, then they ARE too small. As I said, I find that I need .002 at least in rifles to get
good accuracy.

Have you specifically tried 10 gr Unique? If not, you should load up at least 5 and try
them.

Bill

[44man]

I don't think they are too hard, it is the alloy. I make a lot of hard boolits and they shoot best for me but to get 25 BHN, it is done with the oven or water so my alloy is just tough, not as hard as Laser Cast. This is where BHN readings confuse too much.
I don't like super hard ALLOY.
I tried Laser Cast and none shoot and they do lead the bore. The lube they use is junk too.
I would also melt them and add 25% to 50% pure, then water drop them. That should still get them to 20 or 22 BHN but with a better mix.
I feel Laser Cast boolits shear in the rifling instead of being ductile and gripping. There is a difference between tough and brittle.
I tried a lot of store bought boolits and they are either too hard, too small, have bad lube and then they slap a bevel base on them.
Any good outfit that has LBT boolits make good ones and in a lot of cases you can specify the diameter. Double Tap sells some good boolits too. But you can still run into a lube too hard.
I have some boolits here now that I am waiting to test after poking out the hard lube and putting my lube on them. They shot OK but I find a lot of boolits in the box with half the lube broken out. I expect better results.
Stay away from discount house bulk boolits and buy from those that know boolits, better yet, make your own!
Make your own lube or buy from Lar45.

[rond]

Check out Missouri Bullet Company, I have used their bullets with good results, I really like the .32 cowboy bullet.

[tkcomer]

I tried 10, 11 12, 13 and then jumped to 15 grains of Unique. And I load 10 rounds for each test. I then got some Trail Boss as I was running out of Unique. Several tests with all that and absolutely no change. When I bought the Trail Boss, I also bought the FMJs. I have Laser Cast for my 44 mag and 357 mag leverguns. The 44 sometimes leads the first few inches just slightly. A lot of times, you can't see it. It shows up on the patches. No problem with the 357. I really don't want to get into casting as I have zero equipment. I don't think my friend does either. He just got the equipment when his dad died. We just figured we might convert these bullets to something else I could use.

[cptinjeff]

i had a bunch of Lasercast bullets, bevel base, aprox. 25 bhn (as per oregon trails website) they were to hard and leaded, i mixed in pure until I got a reading between 13 & 15 bhn. they cast good and shoot good now.

Any idea of the approx. ratio you ended up with?

[MtGun44]

As a general rule I have had poor resluts with commercial rifle boolits. The standard
crayola lube is marginal at pistol velcities and seems to fail at rifle velocities.

Fit about .002 to .003 over groove diam and use a known good soft lube and use about
10 unique and you will have a high probablility of success.

Bill

[geargnasher]

Crayon lube. So that's the garbage some of those commercial bullets come lubed with. Always wondered if there was ANY good use for it. Sure isn't much good for shooting IMO.

Gear

[tkcomer]

I don't know anything about cast bullets other than the store bought brands are cheap compared to FMJs. Those little rings of lube didn't impress me, so I put Lee Liquid Alox on 'em before I use them. On a side note, does anyone even make a .325 mold? One guy told me he makes .329 bullets and sizes them to .325. That seems like a lot of squeezing.

[Hurricane]

You can get a 8mm mold (.324) and hope it drops from the mold a little large like most molds. For example, molds for a .308 barrel usually drop at .311. Then size the bollit to .325. If it drops from the mold at .324 you could put an abrasive one of the boolits, put the boolit on a screw and turn it in the mold slowly with an electric drill to enlarge the mold cavity. Work slowly and test often to see if the mold is large enough. I would go to .325 or .326 and size the new boolits to .325. Alternately, and much easier, you could try different alloy mixes and see if you can drop larger boolits.

[mdi]

I'd contact the manufacturer and ask how hard they are. BHN number. They should be able to tell you...

[MissouriBullet]

I'd contact the manufacturer and ask how hard they are. BHN number. They should be able to tell you...

We print the BHN on every box of our bullets so that people won't have to call us to ask how hard their bullets are :-)