Pole Barn. Anyone ever build one?

[Just Duke]

Please excuse, The wife and I have reformatted out life 6 years ago and decided that living around densely populated area's is NOT FUN.
So were reverting back to our roots of a rural life style.
Hope I'm not to late at 52...........
So we have looked at pole barn kits to accompany a home and the price seemed a bit high. *
Were have added a bandsaw mill to our inventory (*Norwood Industries) when I left Oregon and told her my broadaxe/hand hueing days are over as my hobby.
So my second option is bandsawing out beams and mortice and tenoning MORTISE AND TENON VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utaGFjj6opg) the building together.

Before anyone says "That's alot of work Duke" I have to create things to do to occupy the 18 to 19 hours a day I don't sleep. lol
It would also make a snowy winter pass more easily if I decide to hang around during the cold spells.
Please note I will not be living in the barn. Well...as long as I don't get caught. ;)








*Sand Creek Post and Beam kit price $75,000 Footprint of 50 X 70 feet with two lean two's and includes everything with the exception of roofing material. We would opt for a metal roof.
* Norwood Industries Video's
HERE (http://www.youtube.com/user/NorwoodSawmills#p/u/8/pF_nSQkNo7Q) AND HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M680oDt7zqM&feature=related)


Stock photo's sent to me by Sand Creek Post and Beam

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/ESTATE%20LOG%20HOMES/BARN1.jpg



http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/ESTATE%20LOG%20HOMES/BARN2.jpg


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/ESTATE%20LOG%20HOMES/BARN3.jpg

I really like the lights shown and this pic and would like to find where you can get them for another project I'm working on.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/ESTATE%20LOG%20HOMES/BARN4.jpg



http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/BARN/completed-post-and-beam-barn.jpg


http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/BARN/post-and-beam-barn-tx.jpg

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/BARN/timber-country-home.jpg

[James Wisner]

First thing is to check with your County Building Dept.

Here is SW Washington, we have many rules, and they seem to change on a regular basis, here are some from 2003 when I did the last one.

Dig down 4 1/2 feet and pour a 6 inch concrete punch pad, if the eaves are under 16 foot. Over 16 foot add another foot to the depth.

Pressure treated poles, eaves under 16 foot, 6x6, over 16 foot then 8x8 poles. on the punch pads, and now can be backfilled with compacted 5/8" gravel. In 1996 they had to have concrete poured around the poles

Now since the presure treated substance has changed, new types of plates must be used as the treating reacts with most metal.

Any wood touching concrete must be pressure treated.

5/8" bolts thru any trusses, for wind upshear, 5/8" bolts thru any truss support plates for snow load.

IF they know you are going to use it for living quarters, then a 6 mil vapor barrier and a min of 2" inslulation under the concrete, min of 4 inches of concrete.

They can be fun building, around here most of them have colored metal for the roof and sides. But one neighbor is currently building one with a comp roof, and nice trim to match his house. Have not seen what the siding will be yet.

James Wisner

[RayinNH]

Duke that's a nice looking barn. Is that the 50x70 in the picture? Lotta sticks in that barn, wood doesn't grow on trees you know ;)...Ray

[Just Duke]

First thing is to check with your County Building Dept.

Here is SW Washington, we have many rules, and they seem to change on a regular basis, here are some from 2003 when I did the last one.

Dig down 4 1/2 feet and pour a 6 inch concrete punch pad, if the eaves are under 16 foot. Over 16 foot add another foot to the depth.

Pressure treated poles, eaves under 16 foot, 6x6, over 16 foot then 8x8 poles. on the punch pads, and now can be backfilled with compacted 5/8" gravel. In 1996 they had to have concrete poured around the poles

Now since the presure treated substance has changed, new types of plates must be used as the treating reacts with most metal.

Any wood touching concrete must be pressure treated.

5/8" bolts thru any trusses, for wind upshear, 5/8" bolts thru any truss support plates for snow load.

IF they know you are going to use it for living quarters, then a 6 mil vapor barrier and a min of 2" inslulation under the concrete, min of 4 inches of concrete.

They can be fun building, around here most of them have colored metal for the roof and sides. But one neighbor is currently building one with a comp roof, and nice trim to match his house. Have not seen what the siding will be yet.

James Wisner


No building codes where I'm going but thanks for the heads up. I also live in Vancouver Washington but seldom ever go back home. It's for sale. :( Don't like it there. To much rain. To many freakin hippies, granola crunchers and greenies.

[Just Duke]

Duke that's a nice looking barn. Is that the 50x70 in the picture? Lotta sticks in that barn, wood doesn't grow on trees you know ;)...Ray

Thanks for the reply Ray. The one pictured is a little smaller Ray. I would like to board 8 stalls rent to the city folks 45 minutes away. I'm not tellin where were building this though. [smilie=p:
This is a small project compared to career builders that are members here on this forum. Heck! take Mike N Barb for example. Mike used to build sky scrapers in NY before he retired.
This is 15th century technology. lol

[Charlie Sometimes]

That barn is fancy enough to live in the upstairs- why not?

Those lights are similar to "antique" styles that were used in old warehouses or basements built in the 1930's. I've seen them on-line somewhere, as the styling is fashionable again. The goose neck mount can be custom bent by ant electrician with a machine bender from rigid conduit.

Don't pour concrete around the pressure treated poles- for some reason (around here) they don't last as long as being in direct contact with the ground. The old pressure treated lumber had arsenic in it, and the new is a salt brine, I think. Use rough cut lumber, and not the fancy stuff above, for siding. And see if you can find cresote to coat everything with- it will last forever, and smell a little.

Not 15th century- 19th century. Still done a lot around my neck of the woods.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Nice looking barn, almost looks like late 19th century style. Here in Michigan there are quite a few Amish barn building organisations. They will build about anything you want the old fashioned way, like you are talking about. Might want to ask around out there. I`ve seen the type of lights you show at a electrical supply show for builders a few years back.Robert

[dragonrider]

Out here in the North East that type of construciton is called "post and beam".You start with the concrete and the "poles" are then anchored to (on top of) the concrete and the building is supported by the concrete. A pole barn starts as poles sunk into the ground about 5 feet, resting on a footing, on 8 foot center to center locations. The rest of the building hangs on these poles. The concrete is the last thing that gets done. That's how I built my 24x24 two story pole barn. The poles are 8x8 PT and are 14 feet long, 5 feet below the concrete and 9 feet above. Been up for 25 or 30 years now and hope it last another hundred. Although it only needs to last as long as I do.

[Von Dingo]

If you didn't already get your bandsaw here is an option http://www.thingswestern.com/8.html . I interacted with Joe a bit, a couple of years ago, good guy.

[Just Duke]

Although it only needs to last as long as I do.

I here that! :holysheep

[George Tucker]

My Son has a Pole Building Business, they stay very busy, in the last yr 20% of their Pole Buildings have living Quarters in them, sign of the times i guess, someone promised these folks Change, Boy their getting Change alright, George.

[Shooter6br]

I am near Lancaster Pa. Amish country. They build some nice pole buildings for sure

[Suo Gan]

Barring county legal issues...some counties in fire prone areas will not allow the new construction of wood sided buildings unless there is an underlayment of wall board. The pole barns I have seen put up were the red neck variety. All served their purpose well, but did not ever look like the photo in your OP. They were made with old telephone poles...the kind with heavy creosote, sunk in the ground to form a rugged frame. Usually they are sided with corrugated steel. If you were doing it yourself, Monte Burch (sp) has a good book on topic, county ag extension offices might have some copies of pole building construction. I have a few around here, but would have to dig for them. Usually the TP's can be had for free. If you know someone at the utility company perhaps they might come and dig the holes for a nominal fee of a keg of beer and a roasted weiner pig. You can build a jig to make your trusses and hire a crane to mount them, or just buy them prefab. It all depends on what you want. Go 20% larger than what you would think you would need. Try to build it in a spot that would suit additional expansion if need be in the form of lean to's. They can be made to look quite nice, and can be had for a fraction of the price of a true old timey timber frame style all wood barn...my neighbor built one in the late nineties for $350k WOW!!. The telephone pole variety would cost somewhere between 10 and 30K for a very large unit.

I didn't ask, are you going to live in the structure?

[Old Grump]

Great looking building, I hope it works out for you, I see a lot of years of plenty to do but you sure shouldn't have to worry much about outgrowing it.

[shooter93]

75 grand doesn't sound high to me for all that timber, if that price includes putting it up it's a steal.3500 sq. ft. if a fairly large building. That type of structure is commonly referred to as a Timber Frame and all those mortises and tendons are labor intensive. A pole barn in most places is a much simpler type of building. Nothing wrong with doing it yourself but remember those timbers get HEAVY to move around and you will NEVER believe the time it takes to do a building that size without a lot of help. I helped Noah with the Ark and I'm not sure there's a building type I haven't tackled yet. Good luck.

[bigdog454]

I built a pole machinery storage shed, 24 X 36 X14H back in the 70's (when I was much younger and able to climb ladders etc.) using used phone poles for the pole part of the building. 12 foot on center. much used lumber that I salvaged and some that I bought. used metal for the sheeting. is still standing and storing stuff. poles were set 4 1/2 feet deep on a bag of concrete mix. post and beam construction. I just have to have a coat of alum paint put on the roof every 6 or 8 years when one of my kids or grandkids need a little money.

[Just Duke]

Out here in the North East that type of construciton is called "post and beam".You start with the concrete and the "poles" are then anchored to (on top of) the concrete and the building is supported by the concrete. A pole barn starts as poles sunk into the ground about 5 feet, resting on a footing, on 8 foot center to center locations. The rest of the building hangs on these poles. The concrete is the last thing that gets done. That's how I built my 24x24 two story pole barn. The poles are 8x8 PT and are 14 feet long, 5 feet below the concrete and 9 feet above. Been up for 25 or 30 years now and hope it last another hundred. Although it only needs to last as long as I do.


Yes sir you are correct.
This construction design is correctly called Timber Frame.

[phaessler]

Looks nice , but upon moving out of New England, and approaching 40, someone once said to me "move everything but your paintbrushes, Vinyl is Final, I guess. I personally have been looking at Morton Buildings here, as well as pole-barn construction. Code here is relaxed and frost lines arent so deep, but alot more is done for wind and hurricane proofing.
I would agree with everyone , check codes ion the local building dept. And good luck

[uncle joe]

Dude, I would have to live in that if it were on my place. Looks to good not to. Good luck
UJ

[Just Duke]

Dude, I would have to live in that if it were on my place. Looks to good not to. Good luck
UJ

Thanks Joe but it would be pretty ripe smellin especially in the summer with 10 to 15 horses. lol :holysheep
For health/hygeinic reason I will sleep elsewhere. ;)

[mroliver77]

Fellow I grew up with has a family that is horse crazy. He built a very large POLE building with living quarters at one end, stalls and tack at the other end and an indoor arena in between. His daughter has one many awards for her horsemanship and now trains high dollar horses and riders at there ranch. It is a family business and they seem to rake in the coin. Asked about tha manure smell Gale says it smells like money to him.
Some of my fondest memories are with a girl that smelled of horses and we spent most of our days in the barn. It is my goal to have a utility apartment in one haymow of my barn.
My barn is a post and beam, self supporting Gambrel roof, trussed rafter design built by my great grandfather in 1935. After my Dads death my Mother left the barn go as she was too tight to spend any money on it and it was from my Dads family. I am slowly getting it tight again and useful. I put a steel roof on it a few years ago as it still had the original sawed cedar shingles and they were shot. Siding will not be cheap so I will do it in sections.
Jay
Jay

[Lloyd Smale]

here in MI the post have to be pressure treated and at least where i live you cant use rough cut lumber. It has to be dimentioned lumber. So along with your mill you would at least have to have a planer and a way to dry you lumber and even then the building inspector would have to approve the lumber before constuction and they wont under any circumstances approve trusses made by you. they have to be boughten truss with an engineers stamp for snow load. those rules aply to any building that has any dimention bigger then 12 feet.

[schutzen]

Before I built a pole barn to house horses, I would tour multiple horse barns. Specifically look for those that can be cleaned with mechanincal equipment. If you ar boarding horse you want to be able to scoop up the bedding and manure with an skid steer loader or a small tractor with an end loader.

I have seen several desighns where the stall side walls swung out of the way and you could scrap-e the floor with a rear blade. It made life much easier for the stable keeper.ouse horses, I would tour multiple horse barns. Specifically look for those that can be cleaned with mechanical equipment. If you are boarding horses you want to be able to scoop up the bedding and manure with a skid steer loader or a small tractor with an end loader.

I have seen several designs where the stall side walls swung out of the way and you could scrape the floor with a rear blade. It made life much easier for the stable keeper.

Do not forget to install a water line to each stall. Float activated waters with drains below them are very convenient and encourage water consumption.

A veterinarian stall is another nice addition. Your vet can work on horses there and so can your blacksmith.

The lights you inquired about look good, but lights in a barn for boarding horses should be shielded if not explosion proof.

Rubber covers for the tops of the stalls reduce the likely hood the horses will eat the top of the stall wall. Also, 52” cattle panels installed as the upper portion of the walls increase ventilation, but also prevent cross stall bites.

Sliding stall doors to the inside with a GFI 120V AC receptacle opposite of the door slide. It gives a place to plug in heaters, clippers, work lights, and a multistep of other projects,

[Charlie Sometimes]

Going to Cali? You mean KALIFORNIA? :shock:
I wouldn't do that being a gun lover. :veryconfu
Seems to be getting more difficult there for those of us that like things that go bang, from everything I read. I'd get out into the "country" and away from city folk, but not anywhere that could dampen my future security, or freedom.

[Just Duke]

Do not forget to install a water line to each stall. Float activated waters with drains below them are very convenient and encourage water consumption.

A veterinarian stall is another nice addition. Your vet can work on horses there and so can your blacksmith.

The lights you inquired about look good, but lights in a barn for boarding horses should be shielded if not explosion proof.

Rubber covers for the tops of the stalls reduce the likely hood the horses will eat the top of the stall wall. Also, 52” cattle panels installed as the upper portion of the walls increase ventilation, but also prevent cross stall bites.

Sliding stall doors to the inside with a GFI 120V AC receptacle opposite of the door slide. It gives a place to plug in heaters, clippers, work lights, and a multistep of other projects,

Thanks a bunch and duly noted. I will incorparate these accoutrements in my build. :bigsmyl2:

[Just Duke]

Ya Gotta have a Good Foundation!

If your starting from scratch, Why not build a steel reiforced 3 ft thick pored concreat foundation with a 12 ft ceiling made of 3 ft thick steel rebar & mesh with 12" Ibeams imbeded into it. Be sure to incorporate at least 2 possible 3 wateright hatchs, the type you find in submarines. Add a few hundred foot excape tunnel with double hatches.
Drill a deep rock artision well in the basement and add a ful air filtration ventalition system. Heat the whole building with Geo-Thermal and add a wood stove in the barn upstairs. Composting Toilets & Lots of Food in the Pantry. Dont forget a self sufficent electrical system with battery bank backup & Gen sets with diesil fuel tanks in a seperate bunker.


Sure it wont take a direct hit like Isral is going to run on IRAN nuke plants but it will provide peace of mind.



http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/gallery/political-cartoons/cowboy_diplomacy_big.jpg

Yea Duke the cold war is over! :) Right? :(

Like freakin heck is is..........................


Duke.............................................. .. NUKEMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!..................

[Just Duke]

WGO the structure your describing is called a bunker or if your a missile system/missile man, Silo.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I will be able to run into the metropolitian areas on the week ends to patronize the shops and partake in comtempoary entertainment. < I trust yo papaz a een od-da> Mach Schnell!!!

You been talkin' to the Gubinatter, ain't ya? I think you are disillusioned, but hey, do what you think is best. Guard your papaz and your adz! :grin:

[waksupi]

If you have never slept in the barn or stables with the livestock, turn in your hat and boots.

[Von Dingo]

I talked to a swell fella last night that was a detective in the said area I'm relocating to. From what I gather the Northern part ignors the Southern parts legal issues. Kinda like the North and South in the mid 1800's only in reverse.
So I should be living in the French country side during the Nazi occupation.

http://www.telefilm.gc.ca/upload/images/tv/03TV252_1.jpg

I will be able to run into the metropolitian areas on the week ends to patronize the shops and partake in comtempoary entertainment. < I trust yo papaz a een od-da> Mach Schnell!!!

I knew a guy from northern California, he was proud that the north wasn't like "THOSE TREE HUGGEN, GRANOLA EAT'N, BERKLEY F******". His words.

[geargnasher]

If you have never slept in the barn or stables with the livestock, turn in your hat and boots.

Slept in a hay loft with a pretty girl a few times in my life, does that count? The Sudan was more powerful than the manure, and her perfume was better than both!

Duke, I don't know why, other than for the aesthitics of it, why you would invest so much in a wooden building. I would go steel, you can build the same style unit and it won't burn down or rot.

I live in a pole building, 28' tall at the ridge, gambrel-roof with shed roofs on each side, if I had to do it over again I'd have a slab poured with keystone beams and pay someone else to put of the red iron, roof, siding and trim. Then I'd finish the inside myself as I've done, anyway. Digging 44, 5'-deep holes by hand in rock and caliche isn't any fun at all. Setting the post by myself wasn't any fun either. Just this past weekend, while building a pad next to one of the outside walls for a carport, I noticed one of the corner posts rotting terribly at ground level, it appears that modern pressure treated lumber is only good for five years or less in crushed rock embedment. One more thing to fix.

Gear

[Just Duke]

Duke, I don't know why, other than for the aesthitics of it.

Bingo! :drinks:






why you would invest so much in a wooden building.

Because I can. ;)

[Charlie Sometimes]

I noticed one of the corner posts rotting terribly at ground level, it appears that modern pressure treated lumber is only good for five years or less in crushed rock embedment. One more thing to fix.

Gear

That is what I have heard. The lumber that is salt pressure treated seeps out faster than the arsenic treatment did. Check their warranty.

[Just Duke]

If you have never slept in the barn or stables with the livestock, turn in your hat and boots.

I have on many occasions had nocturnal encounters in barns that didn't require much sleeping. Does that count?

[Just Duke]

We have since are looking hard at the midwest.................
My only concerns are my eyesight holding up long enough to build this.

[Just Duke]

The accompanying proposed house build.
Here's the artists rendition. Logs of course.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/vicferrari/images/family/ESTATE%20LOG%20HOMES%204.jpg

[Just Duke]

Free power and a 2k $ rebate EACH! from Unkl Sam. With two of these I should be able to get three phase from an inverter. Gonna need alot of rechargeable C cell batteries for storage. lol
http://windspireenergy.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2audOlniaQ&feature=player_embedded#at=98


http://windspireenergy.com/wp-content/gallery/residential/DSC00930_1024x768.jpg

[Just Duke]

That don't scare me none.


http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/BARN/timber-country-home.jpg

[scrapcan]

Other than I know you like conventional craftsmanship and the timber frame will definitely fit that, You could also look at laminated beams for the poles. It makes it much easier to fit the trusses and make them level. use three 2x6 pressure treated and leave the third one out at top and use a custom cut length to set trusses square and level.

I could offer other stuff on design, like not putting in permanent full front horse stalls. Use real horse panels with square tops. the openness is nice for the horses if you have them, and if or when you don't you can take them down and use it for other things.

Also I would never cut a door in the side of a barn for a livestock run. Make it so you have to put them in and out. It will force you to spend time with them and it wil force you to keep it clean. And again you can use it for other things.

just some random thoughts.

just some thoughts

PS I would like to see some of the large scale savonius rotor style turbines in action.

[Just Duke]

You could also look at laminated beams for the poles. <cringing and shuddering>

[Just Duke]

Here's a video. Only there's ways to raise each section without a crane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0LA6Ph92nA

[RP]

But why in the world would a mini van be parked in front of a barn like that.

[scrapcan]

Duke,

Your response is what one would expect, however one can make some very nice laminated beams and have far less cost when compared to getting good beams. I saw a very nice building in Jackson, Wyoming built in such a fashion and it was absolutely beautiful. They glued and put tenons in the offset members of the beams to hold all together. Not another like it in the neighborhood.

And one can unload dimensioned lumber and build the beams on site, without the need of rather large equipment.

Just a thought to keep in the back of your mind.

[45nut]

Out here the "new" pt was copper based to replace the arsenic. It DID require different fasteners due to the tendencies of the metal to corrode and even the Simpson Strongtie plates were changed.

[PatMarlin]

My shop's part of your post and beam building, missing a wing Duke. These are older threads.

First you have to buy yourself one of these:

Of course you don't have to rebuild and modify and upgrade one like I have. May notice I rebuilt the Woodmizer on the completed slab for the shop. Behind is a junk barn I can't wait to tear down someday and put up a new one.

http://www.westcoastminisplitter.com/Pats_WoodMizer_LT40_HD.html

Then go to work-

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=46960

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=697434&postcount=337

Of course I'm not done yet, but it's warm and dry and is where I do my work. I wouldn't hesitate on building a home like this with a full upstairs (both wings). It's really one hell of a building and pretty easy to construct... :drinks:

As you can see I like windows. Lots of em' ....:mrgreen:

...

[Just Duke]

My shop's part of your post and beam building, missing a wing Duke. These are older threads.

First you have to buy yourself one of these:

Of course you don't have to rebuild and modify and upgrade one like I have. May notice I rebuilt the Woodmizer on the completed slab for the shop. Behind is a junk barn I can't wait to tear down someday and put up a new one.


Then go to work-

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=46960

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=697434&postcount=337

Of course I'm not done yet, but it's warm and dry and is where I do my work. I wouldn't hesitate on building a home like this with a full upstairs (both wings). It's really one hell of a building and pretty easy to construct... :drinks:

As you can see I like windows. Lots of em' ....:mrgreen:

...



I here you Pat that's why were looking at one of these as in my first post.
* Norwood Industries Video's
HERE (http://www.youtube.com/user/NorwoodSawmills#p/u/8/pF_nSQkNo7Q) AND HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M680oDt7zqM&feature=related)

That's quite the setup you have built yourself there Pat. Looks like it's constantly evolving which is good. That was alot of threads to read through. :popcorn: :)

[Just Duke]

But why in the world would a mini van be parked in front of a barn like that.

I here you Ricky. We opted for Crew Cab Diesels. Minivans are good for yuppy breaders to haul their spawn around in so they can go buy Louis Vitton purses. :groner:

[PatMarlin]

What do they get for that model Norwood?

[Just Duke]

What do they get for that model Norwood?

With all the attachments and the planer somewhere near 10K. :veryconfu I no, OUCH! But I no children to raise or send to college. Heck not that I ever had one but that's cheaper than a divorce.

[PatMarlin]

You may want to check out Woodmizers L15 as well. Great resale value and excellent factory support.

Heck- $10 grand's not much for a mill these days. My LT40-HD setup the way I have it would cost you near $30,000 new.

I've got about $8k in mine and it's a 95. Rescued it from a drug infested environment.. :mrgreen:

[Just Duke]

You may want to check out Woodmizers L15 as well. Great resale value and excellent factory support.

Heck- $10 grand's not much for a mill these days. My LT40-HD setup the way I have it would cost you near $30,000 new.

I've got about $8k in mine and it's a 95. Rescued it from a drug infested environment.. :mrgreen:


I've seen the Woodmiser run many a time.
The Norwood Ind. will also plane a beam or board with the attachment.

[PatMarlin]

That sounds slick.

[PatMarlin]

Here's some timber from our place...

http://www.patmarlins.com/biglog.jpg


http://www.patmarlins.com/biglog2.jpg



http://www.patmarlins.com/bigog3.jpg

[Just Duke]

That's nice. :drinks: I think DDeaton has the same one.

[Just Duke]

I need a home in the woods. <sad>

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/vicferrari/images/family/ESTATE%20LOG%20HOMES%204.jpg

[PatMarlin]

That's a palace Duke.

I need to build a mother-inlaw cottage soon, plus another house for us (to replace this love shack) and a larger shop. Want to get it all done within the next 8 years. I don't want to be building this stuff walking around with a cane.

[home in oz]

Nope, dont live in Poland, so have not built a Pole barn....

[PatMarlin]

Ever watched a Pole Dance?

Ever eat a Polish Sausage?

[winelover]

Ever eat a Polish Sausage?[/QUOTE]

It's what's for supper today! Along with Pierogi, (potato/cheese stuffed dumplings) and Kapusta (cabbage)!

Winelover

[PatMarlin]

can I drop by? ...:mrgreen:

[winelover]

can I drop by? ...:mrgreen:

Sure--- bring the wine----however it's a long drive from California to Michigan.

Winelover

[home in oz]

I HAVE seen a pole dance at an English Medieval Village tourist site.

Reenacters were dancing around a Maypole.

[atr]

when I was a journeymen carpenter I built alot of pole barnes and houses. There is a trick to getting them to line up square and plumb.
After I graduated from college as a structural engineer I have designed many pole type structures, residences and barns.
The original concepts behind the pole type structure were twofold. 1. they lent themselves to being build on sloping sites. and 2. the roof went on first which then allowed you to build the remaining portions of the structure in a dry environment.

They are not easier to build when compared to a typical platform framed structure. And there certainly are some trickes and techniques you have to we aware of if you want the final product to come out square and plumb.

good luck

[PatMarlin]

2. the roof went on first which then allowed you to build the remaining portions of the structure in a dry environment.

They are not easier to build when compared to a typical platform framed structure. And there certainly are some trickes and techniques you have to we aware of if you want the final product to come out square and plumb.

good luck


Number 2 is my favorite item. I hate working in direct sun. Once you get your foundation done and posts roofed in, it's smooth sailing, plus you can take your time while funds allow progress.

Actually, the way I built my post and beam was very easy. My base is out of square about 3/4", but no body knows that but me... :mrgreen: When milling your own lumber, things like that are not an issue.

I'm thinking about designing a 2 wing building with a front on it, like Duke has pictured for my motherinlaw cottage. She wants to look at mfg homes, but we can build a nice place for a lot less money.

[Just Duke]

That's a palace Duke.


Sure is. ;) Guess I'm trying to make up for being born into a life of poverty when I was young. I do need lots of room for a gym, movie theatre, reloading room, man cave (although girls are most welcome :lol:)and Huge kitchen so I don't have to leave the house and go into the city of sheeple.
Reward to myself for having to put up with abusive employers and co-worker that would stick a knife in your back for an extra few thousand a years.

[Just Duke]

That's a palace Duke.

I need to build a mother-inlaw cottage soon, plus another house for us (to replace this love shack) and a larger shop. Want to get it all done within the next 8 years. I don't want to be building this stuff walking around with a cane.

Any idea's on floor plans on the house? Pics? I can hook you up with my log guy. They all come pre-notched too. And the cheap cheap. My qoute for 7,500 sq ft with 18' walls and 12" Swedish Coped logs was 89K. Not bad huh?

[Just Duke]

You may want to check out Woodmizers L15 as well. Great resale value and excellent factory support.

Heck- $10 grand's not much for a mill these days. My LT40-HD setup the way I have it would cost you near $30,000 new.

I've got about $8k in mine and it's a 95. Rescued it from a drug infested environment.. :mrgreen:

Looks like we found a better one than the Norwood. Sturdier too with it's welded frame vs bolt together sheet metal frame. http://www.timberking.com/1600 VIDEOS. http://www.timberking.com/index.cfm

[Just Duke]

http://loghomeoutlet.com/logpricing.html

[PatMarlin]

One thing to consider Duke with any saw you get...

You're going to need support equipment and hydraulics to move logs and lumber, or a crew of hardworking teenagers. I even worked the teenagers so hard, they looked for easier work and they were some hard working boys.

The mill is the least of it. Getting the logs to the mill, up on the mill, turning cants for cuts and pulling off slabs and lumber is hard work. Then you got to get it to the jobsite. Trust me- I did it the hard way when I was 40.

If I was going to build a house, I would have no less than hydraulics on the mill and at least a tractor with forks if you're on flat land. If not flat- scrap the tractor, cause they will kill you on inclines.


http://www.patmarlins.com/1millin.jpg


http://www.patmarlins.com/2millin.jpg


This is the most awesome machine I've ever owned. Notice the arms look like their on the back instead of the front like on a Bobcat. Notice as well the machine looks like a dozer that's backed into my mill?

Reason is this is the only true bi-directional machine I've ever found.

http://www.patmarlins.com/3millin.jpg


See the foot rest and control, it sets on pegs. You pull that off, and swap the seat around, then set the footrest where the seat was. Now you have the wait up front like a dozer when you need it.

http://www.patmarlins.com/4millin.jpg


I use the bucket jaws to bring down most logs off the mountain without having to drag them. Even 36" diameter- 18'-21' footers. I can log, thin, and brush just with a chainsaw and that attachment. The machine is dead stable on inclines, and has 85hp Isuzu turbo engine with plenty-o-power.

http://www.patmarlins.com/5millin.jpg


I use the forks to move lumber, and I use it to move bucked up logs as well.

http://www.patmarlins.com/6millin.jpg



http://www.patmarlins.com/7millin.jpg

[PatMarlin]

The other important consideration when milling lumber with a mill are "towboards".

See the rollers on each end of the board? Those are towboards. They lift up either side of the log. Mine are hydraulic:

http://www.patmarlins.com/towboards.jpg

If you want consistent straight lumber that will stay that way, aside from using straight trees, you use towboards to tilt the log so your cut follows the "pith" or center of a tapered log from end to end.

Just throwing a log up on the mill and going for it works, but if you cross the pith in your grain it will twist on you everytime, and specially beams. Not having towboards is a handicap, unless you have trees that are straight as telephone poles, with no taper.

The straightest trees make the best lumber as there are even- no stresses in the growth rings. Trees that are bent for what ever reason have un-even rings that cause stress, so your lumber will bow.

No matter- frame accordingly and lock in the stuff you know will move. Save the best for your beams and other uses.

[Just Duke]

If you want consistent straight lumber that will stay that way, aside from using straight trees, you use towboards to tilt the log so your cut follows the "pith" or center of a tapered log from end to end.

Just throwing a log up on the mill and going for it works, but if you cross the pith in your grain it will twist on you everytime, and specially beams. Not having towboards is a handicap, unless you have trees that are straight as telephone poles, with no taper.




Known that from my Crosscut saw and Broad axe days. ;)
What's a good price for a ASV RC 30 RC30 Track Skid Steer Loader Pat?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ASV-RC-30-RC30-Track-Skid-Steer-Loader-skidsteer-rc-50-/130469417138?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item1e609550b2

http://cgi.ebay.com/ASV-RC60-Turbo-Track-Loader-2006-1006-Hrs-Ship-Anywhere-/250750119806?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item3a61df2f7e


http://langequipmentllc.com/images/FS/Dec/040a.jpg


http://i.ebayimg.com/17/!CBRdhL!EWk~$(KGrHqYOKiwEzVfe9p-9BNG7Yo(H3!~~_3.JPG

[Just Duke]

Heck with that skid steer! I'll just have that skinny blonde that follows me around drag those cants out for me!

[PatMarlin]

What's a good price for a ASV RC 30 RC30 Track Skid Steer Loader Pat?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ASV-RC-30-RC30-Track-Skid-Steer-Loader-skidsteer-rc-50-/130469417138?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item1e609550b2

I don't know Duke.

I researched the market for a long time to determine the machine I wanted long before I was able to buy one. I checked all dealers and private web sales etc., to get an idea what the market price was, then I looked for the best machine deal with the lowest hours.

[PatMarlin]

With an ASV that small, you won't be moving much log. Be good for getting lumber around.

[Just Duke]

With an ASV that small, you won't be moving much log. Be good for getting lumber around.

What model is your Pat so I can look?
Can I trailer it and tow it with a Ford Dually Crew Cab Diesel with the 7.3 I have now?

[Just Duke]

This it? http://cgi.ebay.com/96-ASV-MD70-tracked-Skid-Steer-ultimate-snow-plow-/190484405669?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item2c59c15da5

[Just Duke]

http://i.ebayimg.com/16/!CBbFWB!BWk~$(KGrHqJ,!jIE0HI2lV(UBNHld2fqc!~~_12.J PG
http://cgi.ebay.com/ASV-MD70-Posi-Track-/180607134084?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item2a0d062984

[PatMarlin]

Mines an MD2810. They made one also with a sightly larger diesel (MD4810). They no longer make this model which is a shame. It is a totally different balanced machine compared to the hi-lo tracked models.

Now it looks like Terex bought them out... :shock:

[Just Duke]

Mines an MD2810. They made one also with a sightly larger diesel (MD4810). They no longer make this model which is a shame. It is a totally different balanced machine compared to the hi-lo tracked models.

Now it looks like Terex bought them out... :shock:

I saw that. Are any I listed comparable in power range?
I think this one is like yours.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6676549

[PatMarlin]

Yep- that's the machine.

The best engines they ever offered is the ISUZU diesel. Stay away from the Perkins. The older cats were good. My machine only had 700 hours on it.

You could also look at Bobcat. You can get tracks for a wheeled machine, but the ASV 2810 and 4810 were the only machines of their type. They will out lift and out pull all of these skid steers due to the weight distribution. They are like dozers for their weight. I've lifted 3500lbs with mine.

[Just Duke]

How about this bad boy Pat?
http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-Caterpillar-267B-Track-Skid-Steer-Loader-Clean-/220712179692?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item33637897ec
2006 Caterpillar 267B

2100 Hours
3044C DIT Engine with 72HP
No Smoke or blow-by
Runs out great
Joystick controls
Weighs in at 9400lbs
Will lift 5800lbs
Extended life U/C
Rubber tracks are fair they have some cuts
Will run a few hundred hours before needing to be replaced
Very clean and work ready

[PatMarlin]

A forestry company up here had that machine. It is much larger than the others you looked at. The hi-lo tracks wear faster, but not a real issue for home use. The tracks are expensive.

The one they had over heated a lot, but they were running a masticater which is very hard on the hydraulics- not a problem for your needs. It had the Perkins diesel and they had a lot of problems with that engine. Don't know what engine is in that one. Hopefully a CAT.

That should handle your logs and lumber. I think they're in error with the 5800 lbs lift. I seriously doubt it.

[PatMarlin]

That's a Cat engine Duke.

That model of a machine will definitely do the job. The tracks are shot on that thing. They need to kick down the price with those tracks. Getting high on the hour side,.

Also- it looks like the intake manifold has been replaced. Wonder why?. You got to check these machines out well.

[PatMarlin]

This is the kind of stuff you need to find and read up on about any model machine:

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?13344-Cat-267B-axle-problems


Some years and makes had major problems. The engines as well. Got to find out what machines had the least problems. I talked with many service personell on my machine and engine,.

[Just Duke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYku0xoAmh4

[PatMarlin]

Yepper- if I lived in that big snow country, I would have that snow blower attachment on my mine.

Unimog- those things were beasts ...:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

Here's how I deal with dead ladder limbs. I use a 60 pole log in my bucket jaw attachment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kY1IEJjbrA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCpym6Z0mEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euLa2tHDi84

[PatMarlin]

http://i.ebayimg.com/16/!CBbFWB!BWk~$(KGrHqJ,!jIE0HI2lV(UBNHld2fqc!~~_12.J PG
http://cgi.ebay.com/ASV-MD70-Posi-Track-/180607134084?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item2a0d062984

This one looks like a serious deal. 1100 hours on the Isuzu- that's nothin'. Loaded with options and cab heater. 6 way blade and backhoe, lordy, I could use those two.

He's got over $8000 in attachments for it. The tracks look great. If the engine and the machine's had regular maintenance and taken care of, I would not hesitate to move on this one.

Your 7.3 and a goose neck trailer will easily pull this one.

[Just Duke]

That would work.

[shdwlkr]

Nice idea for a barn, I am looking into building a shop that is 30x60 but it will be mostly concrete because if there is a fire much easier to clean out the mess and start over. Yes the floor where the heat runs will be, the walls and ceiling/roof all concrete. I must say that a good share of this building will be in the ground. Why much easier to heat and cool. Might even go totally off the wall and build a earth sheltered house to go with it.
Right now looking for land and funny thing is they aren't making any new land in the U. S. anymore. So the hunt goes on, I know looking is half the fun but when you get to the point hundreds of acres are desired the price goes way up and the choices way down. Oh well keeps me awake at night and busy during the day. When I am not doing college work,yep in college again to learn a new profession.

[shdwlkr]

Duke
Just wondering are you cutting green lumber for this project of yours?
I won't have to use as much wood as your thinking of but might have to build a road up the side of a mountain and that will take a couple of dollars as it has to be able to handle semi trucks as that is the best way to buy materials by the semi load you get a better deal that way. Ha Ha.
My road might hit the 6 figure mark easily with the one piece of land I am looking at. I kind of and looking at errr sort of a hermit kind of life style when my life settles down again. So being close and easy to get too I will not be.
But since this is very early in the land search just might find something better for less and with less work needed but then again who knows.
As to equipment I am looking at a JD with enclosed cab, heater, air conditioner and 4x4 think 60-70 thousand hope to find one for less when it gets down to buying time but it has to be big enough to carry a good sized snow blower on the front and still deal with the grade of the road.Nothing today is cheap, you just have to find what you need and then find it at a price you can afford or at least justify.
My house maybe only 25-2800 sqaure feet when you are only one or maybe two people you don't need a really big place. Besides the garage/shop will be where I spend a lot of my time and have my toys.
Now you have me thinking again and that can get me into a whole lot of trouble fast.

[Just Duke]

Duke
Just wondering are you cutting green lumber for this project of yours?
I won't have to use as much wood as your thinking of but might have to build a road up the side of a mountain and that will take a couple of dollars as it has to be able to handle semi trucks as that is the best way to buy materials by the semi load you get a better deal that way. Ha Ha.
My road might hit the 6 figure mark easily with the one piece of land I am looking at. I kind of and looking at errr sort of a hermit kind of life style when my life settles down again. So being close and easy to get too I will not be.
But since this is very early in the land search just might find something better for less and with less work needed but then again who knows.
As to equipment I am looking at a JD with enclosed cab, heater, air conditioner and 4x4 think 60-70 thousand hope to find one for less when it gets down to buying time but it has to be big enough to carry a good sized snow blower on the front and still deal with the grade of the road.Nothing today is cheap, you just have to find what you need and then find it at a price you can afford or at least justify.
My house maybe only 25-2800 sqaure feet when you are only one or maybe two people you don't need a really big place. Besides the garage/shop will be where I spend a lot of my time and have my toys.
Now you have me thinking again and that can get me into a whole lot of trouble fast.

Thanks Shdwkr. PM sent.

[PatMarlin]

Everybody who mills or buys from a mill builds green or some level of seasoned lumber, unless you have a kiln. Using a kiln for construction lumber is a waste of time.

When I was fist looking at mills, I had various people tell me you could not build green. I soon learned they had no idea what they were talking about.

Then there's flat out false info put out by some of the portable mill manufacturers. I had looked all the major ones.

You probably were pitched on the "Woodmizer cantilever wobble" by Timber King, Duke. If they still have the audacity to do that. What a pile.. :roll:

[shdwlkr]

My only reason for asking if Duke would be using green or not was the weight of the wood. Helped build to pole barns as a kid growing up that were mostly green lumber and 25 feet in the air a 2x12 is really heavy to move around. We did an addition on the barn and used green lumber for our gambrel roof trusses again very heavy and when they move you had better have a place to go. Wonder how I know that one.

[PatMarlin]

Yah- separates the mice from the men. I huff them green beasts up all the time, but I'm used to it.

I had a friend and his buddy who are contractors help me last year to speed some things up and they were whining about the weight and full sawn dimensions. I look at a 2x4 in Home Dumpo these days and they look like toothpics to me. Can't see how they are used for building.

The other thing is all the lumber you see in the box store now is weak, new growth with just a few wide spaced growth rings, horribly milled and twist like crazy. Like many things now days- junk.

They don't warrant a stamp.

[Just Duke]

You probably were pitched on the "Woodmizer cantilever wobble"

The only Time I talked to Timber King was to have a video sent. They never mentioned anything about cantilevers.