New to Ml's

[Arisaka99]

I am thinking about getting my first ML, but I dont know what all i should get with it. Can you experienced guys shed some light onto what is necessary to have with a ML?

[docone31]

You gotta have a way to measure the powder. The powder is measured by volume.
You will need a ball puller. I also bring a nylon face hammer when I go to the range. Makes setting the ball for the ramrod simple. Really helpful with R.E.A.L.s.
You will need lube. Not too hard to make, stores easily.
From there, it will be choices.

[Arisaka99]

What's REALS? I plan to shoot sabots out of it, and I was looking at the CO2 load dischargers at Cabelas in stead of using a ball puller. What do you guys think of bore butter?

[docone31]

R.E.A.L.s are a casting made by Lee Production. I really like them
If you remove the nipple for a charge without powder, put some powder in the clean out screw hole, and use the nipple to fire it, you will not need the load dischargers.
You will already have powder on hand, it really is no big deal.
Everyone who muzzle loads at one time or another forgets to load the powder. That is a fact of muzzleloading.
Remove the nipple, charge the channel, replace the nipple, put on a cap, snap the cap. If it is not enough of a charge to discharge the ball, do it again. They actually come out easily. The effort is in loading them.
Bore Butter is good, so is Crisco.
Get a ball puller. Sooner or later, you will need it. I keep mine in the patchbox. I have used it once in three rifles, in four years. Glad I had it.
Sabots are ok, R.E.A.L.s are more accurate to me.
Less to get.

[mooman76]

I'd get a book on Muzzle loaders and it will explain in allot of detail what you need and will also explain the differences.

[Tom-ADC]

Inline have a easy removable breeh plug all you do it unscrew it shake the powder out and tap the ball out.

[smoked turkey]

I recommend you purchase the Lyman Black Powder Handbook By Sam Fadela. It is a good read and a wealth of info. You will find the issue of "in-lines" and "side-locks"(basically newer fire channel technology vs old style where the primer fire is not in-line with the powder charge) to have pro and con. I personally have both and enjoy shooting both. I find the side lock long guns to be much easier maintenance than in lines, and thus easier to clean. Clean you must after each and every shooting session. That is unless you use one of the newer black powder substitutes such as Buckhorn 209. But that is another story. As you study you will find what works best for you and your type of shooting/hunting. Your question does not have an easy answer, and in fact there is not 'right advice' to give you. Just our opinions as to what works best for each of us. I will say you will enjoy this facet of our shooting hobby regardless of which direction you take. Just my 2 cents worth.

[curator]

Arisaka99

Find a muzzle loading rifle club in your neck of the woods and attend one of their shoots before making a purchase. These guys usally have considerable experince and you can see several types of rifles actually in use. Make a couple of friends and you'll have someone to talk to as you are learning. Muzzle loading is fun but there is a learning curve.

[Arisaka99]

I am trying to find ML clubs, but I'm not having any luck, I'll keep looking. Can you shoot a REALS out of an inline without a sabot? should you lube it? should you put a patch with it? I get the basics, but all the intricate things are kind of foreign to me. I appreciate your help with my stupid questions!! thank you

[DIRT Farmer]

As a range officer, I realy like the CO2 dischargers. I have pulled balls, worked in powder and shot them out, and removed the breach plug to empty a gun. The CO2 discharger wins hands down. It will blow out mistake loads, unload your gun when you don't want to or cant fire it to unload it. A lot of M/L gunsmiths have a hole in the wall from unloading a gun.

+1 on finding a local M/L club even if you have to drive a ways. A lot of shooters will let you try their gun a few shots and you can pick your faveroite.

[DIRT Farmer]

Arisaka, where are you located?

[mooman76]

Yes you can use REALs without a sabot. That kind of the idea behind it. Its a conical bullet slightly larger than the bore so when you load it down the barrel it ingraves in the rifling. Yes you lube it and no you don't need to patch it although some like to load an over powder wad with it. You can lube it by rubing lube like crico over it or something less messy. If you have a gun shop around there that has a line of BP stuff. Ask them about any clubs in the area or try an internet search.

[Arisaka99]

Virginia Beach VA

[DIRT Farmer]

You might contactRaymond Johnson he is the NMLRA State Coordinator for Virginia. 804-526-5795.
If you would like PM me and I can send you a copy of Muzzle Blasts that has the listing of the NMLRA Charter clubs there.

[Arisaka99]

Ok, I called him, but the only clubs are two hors away, and they are sidelock clubs not inline clubs.

[DIRT Farmer]

The guys shooting sidelocks might razz you some but I am willing to bet you they will help you get started. I shoot mostly flint (caus I'm a smart allack and can) but I remember when I started shooting M/L 40 some years ago a few razzed me but most were just interested in getting me started. As far as inlines I own two a Remmington 700 and a pistol that is built off the Hammerli free pistol design that is set up for 148 grn hollow base wadcutters. They don't get any more modern than that and I have had and shot it for 30 years. From what I understand You are just getting started in shooting and might have a hard time getting to a range that far away. Some day I hope you get a chance to travel about 600 miles West on I-64 and get to see Friendship IN, and if you do look me up and I will let you shoot anything I have along. Any questions you have PM me, if I don't know the answer, I know someone who does.

[Arisaka99]

Alright, will do. I go with Wayne Smith to an outdoor range about 45 mins away and we shoot. The ML I am going to buy is Tom ADC's Traditions Yukon with F/O sights and a 4x scope.

[docone31]

You know, when someone comes to the range with an inline, I have yet to see anyone except a Mall Ninja not really help out.
We do not care if they are sidelocks, flints, or inlines.
It is about how we can help, what would you like to know, and are you willing to follow our rules?
I doubt we are the exception. Don't be afraid to ask questions. It gives people a chance to help out.
It will come together for you.

[DIRT Farmer]

I would try the Real bullet in the 1/24 twist It should shoot somewhere between 60 and 80 grns of powder (ffg black or eqv.) I am sure it is a 209 primed gun, wear ear plugs those things crack next to your head.

[Arisaka99]

ok, do you know where to buy the real bullets, or do you have to buy the mold?

[swamp]

I don't know if REAL bullets are available precast.

What caliber will you need? I have REAL moulds in 50, 54, and 58. If one of those will work for you let me know.

If you need to try some I could send you a few.

swamp

[Arisaka99]

Ok, it is a .50 cal, Wayne may have a real mould already, if so then I'll let you know but if not then I'll PM you.

[DIRT Farmer]

We might take up a collection of bullets and keep you shooting for a year. I have a real mould to. Does any one here have any experience shooting patched round balls in a fast twist for cheep and easy practice?

[Arisaka99]

That would be great!!! All I would need then is powder and primers. Do you know where to get primers for cheap do you?

[mooman76]

What kind of primers? Some inlines take the regular ML primers and some take the shotgun primers or either one. You'll have to shop around at some of the shops that sell reload supplies to see. Sometimes Walmart sells them.

[Geraldo]

We might take up a collection of bullets and keep you shooting for a year. I have a real mould to. Does any one here have any experience shooting patched round balls in a fast twist for cheep and easy practice?

I've shot PRB in a Green Mountain .45 with a 1:28" twist and they grouped well with 45-55gr of FFFg.

[DIRT Farmer]

I guess somewhere over the years I should have tried. I know barrels for M/L pistol are as fast as 1/18 and I have used 1/66 cutoffs that have shot better than I could hold. It makes one wonder about twist rates, but then I have been beat by smooth bores.

[Geraldo]

I guess somewhere over the years I should have tried. I know barrels for M/L pistol are as fast as 1/18 and I have used 1/66 cutoffs that have shot better than I could hold. It makes one wonder about twist rates, but then I have been beat by smooth bores.

It does at that. There are so many variables with a muzzleloader that I'm starting to believe you can shoot whatever you want in whatever you have if you work hard enough at it.

[DIRT Farmer]

That is why we keep fooling with some of the train wrecks we shoot isn't A certin 2 grouve 303 comes to mind, that darn thing will eventualy shoot.(I hope)

[Arisaka99]

Lemme guess, your arisaka? or if you have one, your smle?

[DIRT Farmer]

My Arisaka is one of those guns that eat any thing that fits, The one I'm trying to figure out is a US Property Savage Enfield with a burnt throat. I have got up to 6 / 10 going where I want them.

[Wayne Smith]

Chris, to answer one question we'll have to get a REAL mold once you get your rifle. They are by Lee, and not expensive. Actually a good mold to learn to cast with. Gentlemen, he will be casting at my house - no room in an apartment that a family occupies. I have a couple of .44 caliber molds that should shoot well with a sabot as well. Don't worry, you will have it shooting soon. Irv has all that is needed for the sabots.

[mooman76]

Great deal. It's always good to have a mentor to help you get started on something new. One of the things I like about the Lee REAL moulds are you can get the combo mould so you have RBs too and they come in 2 different weights. And yes they are a good mould to start out on as they are easy to cast.

[Arisaka99]

How much do the REAL moulds usually run? Will shooting a patched ball mess up an inline barrel? Or is it fine to do it?

[mooman76]

They run around$20 like all the Lee double cavity moulds. No a ball will not mess up your barrel. Because of the tight twist you will not be able to push it as fast as a slower twist gun.

[DIRT Farmer]

There are a lot to learn about M/Ls. I do know that a fast twist needs to be patched tight. As far as any leading in the barrel, you would have "blow" the patch and then the ball is still smaller than the barrel.

As a side note I was in a big box store today and heard two guys discussing M/Ls for deer season. One was saying that he had a side lock and that they were no good, it would not go off. In listining he said the caps would not fire pellets. No.1 pellets are not designed for pantent breaches due to the long flash travel, and no I didn't interject in to the conversation as it was apperant he knew all he wanted to know. The point is to keep an open mind.

[Arisaka99]

What do you mean blow a patch? That is just plain ignorance on their part, everyone should know that they aren't designed to shoot pellets. Unless they are manufacture designed to shoot them.

[Geraldo]

As a side note I was in a big box store today and heard two guys discussing M/Ls for deer season. One was saying that he had a side lock and that they were no good, it would not go off. In listining he said the caps would not fire pellets. No.1 pellets are not designed for pantent breaches due to the long flash travel, and no I didn't interject in to the conversation as it was apperant he knew all he wanted to know.

Oh, I would have interjected into the conversation. It would have gone something like this, "Would you take $50 for that *** sdiehammer?"

[DIRT Farmer]

Geraldo, I am working on a pile of T/Cs they make great silly wet guns and the grand kids get one if they want to learn to shoot. Any time I find one and the price is right and now if thy have the old style square sights, I buy it regardless of the barrel. These guys, well it would have been like shooting ducks over bait.

Arasaka 99, When the patch / ball combo don't fit the patch will come out shredded, a good load should leave a patch that is darkened on the back and look good enough to shoot again, in fact I have. Good catch on how far out those guys were. They learned every thing they know from Saturday morning hunting shows.

[Arisaka99]

Yeah, they need to get a BP manual and read up on their weapons. Just my $.02

[Arisaka99]

Do you really need a short starter, or can you just use your ramrod? I dont get all the different jags and tips and stuff like that, for the short starter.

[Swampman]

The short starter doesn't need tips and jags. They are for cleaning.

[mooman76]

You can make your own short starter for next to nothing. Just need a small piece of dowel and somthing to attach it to like antler or round wooden knob. I put a piece of 38 brass over mine to keep it from spliting and concaved the end so it is rounded for the ball.

[Arisaka99]

oh, I thought that they were for starting sabots? I mean like the jags that push it in by the hollow point or go over the tip. IDK, im just a beginner.

[Swampman]

If you use pointed bullets you'll need a short starter that doesn't damage the tip.

[Arisaka99]

Why use a short starter instead of just using the ramrod all the way down?

[docone31]

The ramrod is hard to grip on first start.

[qajaq59]

When the patch / ball combo don't fit the patch will come out shredded, What would it mean of the patch came out with a round hole in it? I tried shooting RB in my in-line and that is what it did to the patches.

[Swampman]

Most inlines will shoot PRBs just fine. It's likely that the rifle being new has very sharp rifling. Your patches may be too thin as well.

[qajaq59]

Thanks Swampman. I'll do some more research on patch material.

[Arisaka99]

There is a camp in NM run by the NRA and it looks awesome!!! They have ML shooting, rifle, pistol, shotgun, long range/high power rifle shooting. How to set up a hunting camp, wilderness navigation, deal with a downed deer, and stuff like that, I thought you guys might be interested. Here is the link: http://www.nrawc.org/adventure_camp.html