.45 hp devestator woes

[sergeant69]

i am going to TRY to post a pic here. if so, the problem is evident. no matter how hot the mold is or how loose/tight the sprue plate is this is what i get. its a brand new mold.

[a.squibload]

I'm only replying 'cause I happen to be here (not an expert!).
That looks like nothing but wrinkle, where's the boolit?
My wild guess is presence of oil, or mold not hot enough, but someone here knows for sure.

[sergeant69]

thats the BASE of the boolit, (the rest, fully filled out, IS IN THE MOLD[smilie=b:). no oil, cleaned w/brake fliud and dried, mold plenty hot.

[StrawHat]

Hard to tell from a photo but you might need to open a vent line at the base of the boolit. I had a similar problem and just broke the edge of the mold where the halves meet under the sprue. Once the air had a place to go, the lead flowed in.

[Bret4207]

First get the mould really, really clean. I don;t think that's the issue, but always start there. Then get a good hot pot of alloy and start casting as fast as you can. Aim for dropping frosty boolits. With a HP mould it's tough, but try. 8 chances out of 10 the mould isn't hot enough. The other chance is the mould needs a little venting. Simply breaking the edge of where the top block halves meet is usually enough. All that requires is a pass or maybe 2 with a stone across the top face edge.

[44man]

Did you say the mold was cleaned with BRAKE FLUID????
Try scrubbing with hot water and dish soap.

[captaint]

When cold and empty, does the sprue plate swing under its own weight?? Sometimes they need to be that loose. Certainly, if you get it too loose, you'll see that right away. Clean it really well with the dishsoap & hot water and heat er up well. good luck. Let us know how it works out. enjoy Mike

[sergeant69]

Did you say the mold was cleaned with BRAKE FLUID????
Try scrubbing with hot water and dish soap.

sorry. BRAKE PARTS CLEANER (spray). helluva degreaser/cleaner. then soaked in kroil for 2 days. then sprayed again.

[sergeant69]

rather than do the quote thing on every reply, i'll try it all at once here. the mold should be hot enough. i was also casting a 6 banger lee so everytime i filled that one up i'd set it aside and do the HP pictured. then set the HP aside and do the lee. was at it maybe an hour and i'd guess the pic was taken after the HP was filled a counted 25X. finally gave up and just did the lee. HP mold was hot as hell. i also have the same DEVESTATOR in a .44 and no problems at all. sprue plate has been set all the way from swing freely to tight. i will try breaking the edge slightly and see how that works. thanks

[GLL]

Try casting with the LYMAN mould alone without alternating with the LEE ! Cast as fast as you possibly can ! I have the same mould and mine requires HEAT and SPEED ! Pressure cast a few with a ladle as an experiment !

Jerry

[RobS]

Don't be surprised if you have to cast hotter. When I first started to use HP molds I wouldn't let myself think past my current "normal" alloy temperatures. The thing is using a HP mold in itself will slow down the casting tempo and as that happens the mold cools down. It took me two casting sessions to conclude that my tempo was not going to increase like my other molds so the next viable step was to increase the alloy temp. Another thing, the 44 cal devestator my be working well but consider that the 44 mag mold has a 250 grain bullet vs the 180 grain 45 mold; more alloy entering the 44 mold so it will run hotter.

I wouldn't cast with two molds until you figure out your problem. Check the venting as stated by others and then look at increasing the alloy temp and/or add a bit of tin if you haven't done so already. I have an aluminum 4 cavity HP mold that I cast 100 degrees warmer than other multi cavity molds and everything is perfect. A two cavity mold with one cavity HP also requires a warmer temp as well.

[cbrick]

I think GLL nailed it. The rest of the boolit is well filled out so it's not an oily mold problem. The base isn't filling out so try pressure filling and/or continue to fill the mold after it's full and pulling the mold away. Make a HUGE sprue on top of the sprue plate, force alloy into the hole once the mold is full. This is simply not enough alloy at the very end of the pour.

Rick

[Larry Gibson]

Clean the mould

Cast hotter

Open the spout adjustment to get a larger, quicker flow of alloy into the mould

Larry Gibson

[GrizzLeeBear]

You may want to reconsider using brake cleaner on ANYTHING that will be exposed to heat. Brake cleaner when heated can produce poisoness vapors like phosgene (nerve gas). Here's an article by a guy exposed to small puff of smoke of the stuff and had serious health problems.

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

I know it evaporates quickly, but just a small drop left on or in a mold when molten lead is poured into it could be dangerous.

I have found that hot water and a little dish detergent cleans and deqreased well enough for bullet molds.

[geargnasher]

Try casting with the LYMAN mould alone without alternating with the LEE ! Cast as fast as you possibly can ! I have the same mould and mine requires HEAT and SPEED ! Pressure cast a few with a ladle as an experiment !

Jerry

YES, YES, and YES.

Four to five pours a minute, and don't dawdle with the spud out, keep it in the mould as high a percentage of your active casting time as you can.

Pressure casting helps, and keep the pot temp low, maybe only 600-650 or so.

Use a fan to cool the sprue plate for 3-4 seconds each pour if you can, but try to keep the spud HOT.

Check the bottom of your HP cavities with a bright pen light, is there a sharp impression of the spud, or is the bottom of the cavity rounded and smooth?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15918&d=1253321017

This isn't a very illustrative picture, but you can blow it up and see the fillout detail around the nose, yours should look like that if the mould is hot enough. After speed casting for 20 minutes you should be looking for an insulated glove for your "mould" hand, the mould should be hot enough to make holding the wooden handles dang near impossible.

Gear

[sergeant69]

ladle casting is the ONLY way i cast. pressure 99% of the time. the reason that i left the boolit in the mold then did the lee was to leave a hot one in it as long as possible to heat up the mold, but i will try it "speed style" next session. the pot is a new lee 20 pounder turned up and left as high as it will go.

[geargnasher]

My advice is to skip the ladle and use the bottom pour, even if you get it to work without pressure casting.

Unless you're superman, you ain't gonna ladle those babies fast enough to keep your mould hot, plus the ladle spout robs heat from the sprue plate if you touch them together (as in pressure casting with a ladle). I'm serious about pouring one every 12-15 seconds to keep the mould hot enough. The .45 Devastator has a huge, heat-sucking spud, and thin cavity walls that lose heat like crazy.

I know you haven't really gotten an understanding of just how hot your mould needs to be, but you must understand that you don't have time to let the boolit sit in the cavities while you do something else, if the boolit is solid, it's heat contribution is done and your blocks and spud are cooling off. You need to keep fresh, molten alloy in there to keep the heat up. Try it and you'll see what we mean.

Gear

[fredj338]

I think GLL nailed it. The rest of the boolit is well filled out so it's not an oily mold problem. The base isn't filling out so try pressure filling and/or continue to fill the mold after it's full and pulling the mold away. Make a HUGE sprue on top of the sprue plate, force alloy into the hole once the mold is full. This is simply not enough alloy at the very end of the pour.

Rick
That is how I do all my HP molds. Pressure cast, bottom pour pot, big sprue, run the mold & alloy hot.

[Gohon]

Look at the picture folks............The lead is blowing out under the sprue plate opposite of the sprue plate screw which is the least path of resistance. He has a air vent problem. Get a diamond tip scribe and work the vents, especially those at the base section.

[uncle joe]

not advertising but if you want to cast fast you need some bull plate spru plate lube, just a q tip wipe or two on a hot mold top and sprue plate and you can cut the sprue while it's still jiggling. then the mold will get good and hot.

[sergeant69]

Look at the picture folks............The lead is blowing out under the spruce place opposite of the spruce place screw which is the least path of resistance. He has a air vent problem. Get a diamond tip scribe and work the vents, especially those at the base section.

ya know i wondered about that too. how it could be so full on one side and not the other, every single time, and then call it a heat problem. which it may be, i'm sure no expert, and need an answer, but like i said i wondered about that too. where does one get a diamond tip scribe?

[azrednek]

Try scrubbing with hot water and dish soap.

+1 on that but try using a soft finger nail brush with the dish soap and water on the vent lines and cavity. Scrub the vent lines really good you wont hurt the mold.

[HeavyMetal]

Your base fill out, or lack there of, is pretty severe.

Had the same basic issue with my Devestator mold.

Steps I took to cure it:

Broke the edge of the mold right at the edge just slightly, used 600 grit sandpaper and made 1 or 2 pass at an angle on each side of the block again very very lightly!!

Bought a hot plate and made a pre heater for my HP pin from steel plate and a piece of cold rolled steel drilled to match the pin diameter and length.

Use a ladle to cast with, this isn't production work, you'll never keep up with a good 4 banger so don't try! This is a labor of love make each pouring count as a perfect boolit!

Dip the mold in the alloy to get it up to temp, it needs to be hot enough to keep the alloy from sticking to it.

Run a minimum of 750 degrees

dip the sprue plate in the alloy until it won't have alloy sticking to it.

Do this as the last thing just before you put the ladle to the sprue plate! I will insert the pin dip the plate then cast a boolit.

Seems dipping the sprue plate made a huge difference in base fillout and several other HP molds I have benifited more from the plate dipping than any of the other tips.

[Doby45]

I see your problem. Your mold is mounted to your handles backwards.

:kidding:

[geargnasher]

I see your problem. Your mold is mounted to your handles backwards.

:kidding:

WOW!! I can't believe we all missed that! Good eyes.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Look at the picture folks............The lead is blowing out under the spruce place opposite of the spruce place screw which is the least path of resistance. He has a air vent problem. Get a diamond tip scribe and work the vents, especially those at the base section.

I'm not trying to be acidic, but I disagree with your assessment of this particular issue. I did look at the picture, in fact I went and looked at it AGAIN after seeing Doby's post! Seen it in person a few times, too. I don't see lead blowing out of that mould anywhere, what I see is lead that froze in a cold mould while it was still spiraling into the cavity. Could be exacerbated by too-small of a sprue puddle not getting the plate hot enough when the rest of the mould was casting fine. Venting issues can certainly cause poor base fillout, but it is usually just rounded edges on a properly heated mould, not a frozen, shiny swirl. The OP was using two moulds, and one of them a six-cavity, so you can imagine how many seconds passed between pours on the Devastator, I'd be surprised if it was being filled more than once a minute, and that won't ever work unless it is idling on a hot plate.

Gear

[Gohon]

I'm not trying to be acidic, but I disagree with your assessment of this particular issue. I did look at the picture, in fact I went and looked at it AGAIN after seeing Doby's post! Seen it in person a few times, too. I don't see lead blowing out of that mould anywhere, what I see is lead that froze in a cold mould while it was still spiraling into the cavity. Could be exacerbated by too-small of a sprue puddle not getting the plate hot enough when the rest of the mould was casting fine. Venting issues can certainly cause poor base fillout, but it is usually just rounded edges on a properly heated mould, not a frozen, shiny swirl. The OP was using two moulds, and one of them a six-cavity, so you can imagine how many seconds passed between pours on the Devastator, I'd be surprised if it was being filled more than once a minute, and that won't ever work unless it is idling on a hot plate.

Gear

You are correct, my assessment is wrong. Took my own advise and went back and blew up the picture for a better view and could see where I was viewing the fill out backwards. Now I would have to say a mould to cold and probable a sprue puddle not large enough to produce fill out. Better yet I'll just hush up and let those with more experience help this fellow out.

[GLL]

Repeat: More SPEED + More HEAT ! :) :)
http://www.fototime.com/DAF657405602FF7/orig.jpg

[Bret4207]

My advice is to skip the ladle and use the bottom pour, even if you get it to work without pressure casting.

Unless you're superman, you ain't gonna ladle those babies fast enough to keep your mould hot, plus the ladle spout robs heat from the sprue plate if you touch them together (as in pressure casting with a ladle). I'm serious about pouring one every 12-15 seconds to keep the mould hot enough. The .45 Devastator has a huge, heat-sucking spud, and thin cavity walls that lose heat like crazy.

I know you haven't really gotten an understanding of just how hot your mould needs to be, but you must understand that you don't have time to let the boolit sit in the cavities while you do something else, if the boolit is solid, it's heat contribution is done and your blocks and spud are cooling off. You need to keep fresh, molten alloy in there to keep the heat up. Try it and you'll see what we mean.

Gear


Sorry, but unless I ladle differently than everyone else this makes no sense. The ladle is either immersed in alloy or full of alloy 99% of the time. The mould is the rig that's cold. So the mould is robbing heat from the hotter ladle, not the other way around.

[NSP64]

I see your problem. Your mold is mounted to your handles backwards.

:kidding:

He may use a gloved hand to open the sprue plate. In that case the mold may be mounted correctly for him

[sergeant69]

He may use a gloved hand to open the sprue plate. In that case the mold may be mounted correctly for him

i had been doing some heavy duty pruning with a stihl pole saw and wrists were sore as hell so mounted blocks that way so i could pop open sprue plate left handed as right wrist was in pain. would that have made a diff.??

[sergeant69]

also...am gonna be busy the next week or so (new grandbaby 100 miles away and the wife thinks going to see her is more important than me solving this boolit making problem...damn!), plus work etc etc but am going to try cleaning the mold as described above, heating the mold, pouring fast and hot etc etc, just may be awhile b4 i can report on results. don't anyone think its a lack of interest though. can kids be trained to pour lead by the age of 2 or so ya think?

[Doby45]

i had been doing some heavy duty pruning with a stihl pole saw and wrists were sore as hell so mounted blocks that way so i could pop open sprue plate left handed as right wrist was in pain. would that have made a diff.??

No, it would have made no difference. I was just pickin and playing. And NSP64 made a perfect point about opening it that way with a gloved hand.

[Doby45]

Send me the mold, I will pour ya some boolits.

[frank505]

I like this bullet enough to buy two molds. Do you have lead thermometer? I am guessing your alloy is not as hot as you think, the sprue hole is small, I also thinned my hollow point plug for easier fill out on the nose. The bullet still expands on critters out of my 4" Kimber.

[sergeant69]

Send me the mold, I will pour ya some boolits.

pour me some $$$$ instead.

[Doby45]

For that I would need a different mold and alloy.

[geargnasher]

Sorry, but unless I ladle differently than everyone else this makes no sense. The ladle is either immersed in alloy or full of alloy 99% of the time. The mould is the rig that's cold. So the mould is robbing heat from the hotter ladle, not the other way around.

Yes, Bret, you're right, I was typing left-handed again! What I was getting at is sometimes it's very difficult to keep the pace up enough (while handling a ladle and a HP spud and while pausing a second or two for the boolit to begin freezing under pressure) so the ladle spout doesn't freeze to the sprue plate before it can be pulled away enough to make the puddle. Maybe it works better with hotter alloy than I like to use, I tend to get stuck in the rut of running alloy as cool as possible and maybe I get away with cooler stuff with a bottom pour than a ladle requires.

Gear