Too Short or Too Long??

[BlueSmoke]

I tried some 45 acp loads using the 200gr Lee Bullet the SWC. It seems like its a BB copy of the HG68.

I had some failure to feeds where the cartridge slid out of the mag and almost pointed straight up. The base half of the cartridge was still in the mag and the bullet nose was jammed into the top of the chamber.

I tried two different mags. It happened to both.

The OAL is 1.245.

What's your guess. OAL was too short or too long. The firearm feeds hardball FMJ fine?

Regards,

BlueSmoke

[RobS]

Most people are loading that one longer to feed. Try 1.26 maybe 1.27 and see if your gun likes it. Also check to make sure that the loaded rounds are able to chamber by taking the barrel out and using it as a gauge.

[mooman76]

45 acp being so short and fat doesn't like SWC bullets sometimes. Actually allot of autos don't like them and mine didn't like the same bullet you are using. Sometimes it would feed and smoetimes it wouldn't. Might want to go with a RN or TC bullet. A couple things you could try though are water drop your bullets to make them harder and they might slide up the feed ramp easier and another it to clean your feedramp real good and polish it. Also you didn't mention the lube you use. If using LLA it gets on the feed ramp and is sticky enough to jam your round. That can be curred easy enough by switching lubes or cleaning the lube off the bullet nose.

[405]

Darn auto pistols anyway! The two cast bullets I shoot in the 45 Auto Colt 1911 are both somewhat stubby. The cartridge OAL for the 200 gr roundnose, flatpoint is 1.193. The cartridge OAL for the 180 gr roundnose is 1.165. Both feed and function flawlessly. Sounds like you're getting a classic "stovepipe". Maybe feedramp-bullet profile-OAL geometry but I wouldn't put ALL my marbles in that theory basket either.

[leadman]

Usually this bullet likes to have part of the shoulder out of the case to aid in going up the ramp. If you look at the bullet there is a small bevel at the front of the shoulder, this should be out of the case along with a bit of the driving band. Each gun is a little different. My customers say this works well for them.
I have a guy with a 45ACP revolver and he crimps over the shoulder and said this bullet is very accurate.

[MtGun44]

For H&G 68 use 1.25 to 1.26. The Lee is not an exact copy, so will need a slightly
different length, you are almost certainly too short now. Use your dismounted barrel for
a gage and seat long enough that you start engraving the rifling on the full diam
shoulder o f the boolit. Seat a touch deeper and retry until you can push the cartridge
flush with the hood with no more than a pound or two finger pressure. Check that
this LOA will fit the mag and you are done.

Make sure you taper crimp. Inadequate crimp causes a lot of jams in 1911s. You
are likely to need to increase TC to get the cartridge to seat fully in the chamber.

Bill

[BlueSmoke]

Thank You all for sharing your experiences.

I will seat a bit longer and let you know the results.

Regards,

BlueSmoke

[405]

BlueSmoke,
Hope the longer OAL fixes the problem. I can only assume the posted suggestions of cause go something like: as the cartridge is rammed forward during cycling the bullet ogive is striking the ramp in such a way as to force the nose of the bullet up out of the chamber entry before it has a chance to enter the chamber thus creating the vertical jam?? I can't quite figure how that works but no matter. I'll admit- it is not one of the common types of stovepiping--- usually it a fired case that stovepipes vertically. And usually, a live round jam ends up with the round canted upwards at an angle with the bullet tip hard against the upper part of the chamber. Anywho, if the longer OAL doesn't work... you might try a shorter OAL if possible... of course backing off the charge some as the shorter OAL will decrease case capacity and may increase pressure slightly. If all that monkeying with the OAL with your bullet doesn't work, the next possibility would be to try another bullet design. The 200 gr RNFP that functions flawlessly in my 1911 is loaded to a shorter OAL than you were citing. It is not the LEE 452-200-RF but is the same for all practical purposes. And BTW, it is not a very hard alloy at about BHN 8-9.

[lwknight]

Hogwash!! Stovepiping is caused by too little powder in the case. ( Wimpy Load)
Put in more powder or get a lighter spring.
And grip the pistol solidly into your palm. You havd to get the grip against the bones of your hand , not just touching soft flesh.
If the slide does not come all the way back and have speed built up when it hits the brass , the case will stand up. If the load makes the slide hit the stops ( don't have to hit it hard either ) it will be traveling fast enough to shove the brass into the chamber before it stands up.

I might be wrong . It might be a unique case. But that has been my expewrience.

[captaint]

All good advice. I would also try a different magazine. Sounds like your mag is letting go of the round too soon. My 1911's eat that and similar boolits for all three meals with no problems. Try the different spring and a new mag. Then be happy. enjoy Mike

[runfiverun]

i'm in the mag corner also.
they do make a mag for swc's that have a squared off lip to hold the round a bit higher for better forward alignment with the ramp.
i mainly use an h&g 68 copy or the lyman version and have not had to change mags in any 1911.
but thats why they make the different mag.

[kawalekm]

I shoot Lyman's 200 SWC and I also had feeding issues in my 1911. I solved my problem by REDUCING the OAL to 1.175". That was less than Lyman's recomended minimal OAL!

Don't get histerical about deep seating a bullet. Just start your load development over again with the recommended starting charge and work up your load like usual. You don't have to worry about deep seating raising pressure, as long as YOU work your load up.

By the way, I came across this idea (reducing OAL) after going through the published 1911 literature and reading about it.

http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Digest-Book-1911-Complete/dp/0873492811/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281538716&sr=1-2

No reason to re-invent the wheel! These problems have already been solved by people generations ago. You simply have to wade through the published info on what works.
Good luck,
Michael

[mpmarty]

+1 on Early release from the magazine. I generally test magazines with empty cases. If the mag won't feed empty cases I don't use it.

[Alex Hamilton]

Blue Smoke,

It helps to visualise the gun cycling in slow motion to guess the true cause of your jams. The most common cause of the "smoke stacks" that you are getting is that the slide does not go back far enough and it picks the new round from the magazine by the forward edge of the extractor groove. As the head of the case cannot rise into the breech face of the slide it attempts to enter the chamber at too steep an angle and the action jams. Try some brand new cases and examine them closely when the rounds have jammed. If you can see minute dents somewhere on the forward edge of the extractor groove, you have found the cause. The cure is a slight increase in the powder charge to generate more recoil.

Another cause can be that the magazine lips release the head of the case too soon - i.e before the bullet has partially entered the chamber. As the cartridge is pushed up by the next round in the magazine, it kind of "bounces" and misses the chamber.

Place a loaded magazine into the pistol and cycle the slide by hand slowly. Observe when the rear of the cartridge is released by the magazine lips - i.e. when it pops up into the breech face. Ideally, it should do it when the bullet has partially entered the chamber.

I hope this helps. Do let us know how you get on.

Alex

[Larry Gibson]

Another magazine may solve the problem but there is no mention of the type of M1911 it is as to whether the ramp is altered/made for semi WCs. Many newer M1911s are already "ramped". Also some with the ramp as part of the barrel do feed short stubby bullets well.

Larry Gibson

[lwknight]

Its an easy test. Cycle the slide slowly and observe whats up and just for grings , pull the slide all the way back and let it fly to see if it chambers the round that way.
That should tell you if its too strong of a spring for your load or something else.