40 s&w help

[parrott1969]

When I chamber a round in both my S&W Sigma and XD 40 S&W the round does not fully chamber. If I Slap the back of the slide it goes into battery. Any idea whay this is happening and how to fix it. The boolit is Lee truncated cone 175 grain sized to .401 and COL is 1.125 down to 1.10. I get zero leading. When I remove the barrel and place cartridge in chamber it is clearly visible that the web is out to far. Any ideas?

[casterofboolits]

Most COL's are based on round nose bullets. If you seat your TC bullet to RN COL The TC bullet will engage the rifeling. Just seat the TC bullet a bit deeper to clear the rifeling. Just use your pistol barrel as a gage to find the right COL. I cast the Lyman 40-175-TCBB for my EAA Witness and a friend's HK.

[parrott1969]

Caster what is your COL? Lyman 49th shows 1.10. I started at the low end with 4.9 grains of unque so I have a little room to play.

[shootinxd]

My XD 40 with the Lee 175grn TC requires a COAL of 1.085-1.089,just be careful when you venture away from published specs.What works for me may not for you.Try using a dummy round with the barrel removed from the gun.

[parrott1969]

shootinxd, I will give it a try with a dummy round. How far below published data is your load? I have ten loaded with 4.9 grains of unique, depending on which manual you use its either starting load (lyman) or .4 grains under starting (lee).

[geargnasher]

I've had the same issue with an M&P and that boolit. It would shoot, it was very accurate, minimal leading, but would fail to GHTB almost every time seated 1.120" all the way down to 1.093". I finally had to go (with slightly reduced powder charge) to 1.065" before I got 100% reliability, but then my groups really opened up.

Turns out the issue is my particular gun's chamber got really narrow at the front and the extra thousandth from shooting .402" cast boolits crowded the chamber just a little too much. Any little bit of powder or lube fouling and it had to be helped to battery. The solution ended up being twofold: Hotter (NON-Glock) loads carefully worked up to burn more cleanly, and using the dreaded Lee post-sizing die to size the top .090" of the case ( this includes the front band of the Lee TC boolit). Consider it a long crimp. Yes, it sized down the WDWW boolits (22 BHN) to about .401" on the first band, but they shot fine and chambered reliably. Final COAL for this gun ended up being 1.115" to headspace on the rifling with .005" left over for "combat tolerance".

YMMV.

Gear

[David2011]

All of the data I've seen on the development of the .40 S&W suggests that the original bullet is the truncated cone so OAL specs should be good with the TC. The .45ACP ball ammo OAL is based on the John Browning profile, not really a round nose but a parabola that matches the inside shape of the 1911 magazine. The SAAMI spec for the .40 max OAL is 1.135" which -should- work in any gun. I found that with a maximum diameter boolit I had to seat fairly short to pass the Dillon case gage but the ammo would still chamber in the gun's barrel. There seems to be a need to balance the correct diameter to prevent leading with a diameter and OAL that will chamber properly. I had Magma make me a .400 sizing die to satisfy the case gage but it probably wasn't necessary.

When reading the load data remember that it's based on a 1.135" OAL and decrease your load accordingly if you load shorter to avoid excessive pressure. One guy I shot with in Louisiana told me that he loaded their ammo short with a reduced load. He said the pressure and velocity were still where they needed to be for IPSC major but the recoil impulse was reduced. A year or two later he said he had gone back to 1.135" loads but didn't say why. The three IPSC shooters in the family all shoot the STI Edge which can feed a full length .45ACP at 1.285" will ball ammo so maybe it was a feeding reliability decision.

So, after writing all of that I see it is absolutely inconclusive so far. I have a Kahr CW40 and a Kel-Tec .40 that both feed my IPSC ammo flawlessly. Based on my experience, if it will pass a Dillon case gage it should feed in anything. If it will pass the Dillon gage and still not feed, maybe it's time to try go and no-go gages to see if the chamber is too tight.

David

[geargnasher]

Or, you could just use the barrel of the particular gun for which you're casting and loading as a case gauge. Foolproof.

Gear

[truckmsl]

Assuming that you've got adequate crimp or bell removal and that isn't your problem, push one of those tight rounds into your chamber.

Pull it back out and see if there is a scuff mark on the lead boolit near the case mouth. If so, you may need to have the chamber opening into the leade area slightly enlarged.

The truncated cone is full diameter for a bit beyond the case mouth and some barrels are too tight at the opening to the leade to accept the fatter boolit. Most aftermarket barrel makers will do this for free.

[Digger]

So, after writing all of that I see it is absolutely inconclusive so far. I have a Kahr CW40 and a Kel-Tec .40 that both feed my IPSC ammo flawlessly. Based on my experience, if it will pass a Dillon case gage it should feed in anything. If it will pass the Dillon gage and still not feed, maybe it's time to try go and no-go gages to see if the chamber is too tight.

David[/QUOTE]

Hey , Dave ... thought I was one of the few remaining that has a Kel-tec 40 , ...nice little gun !
some people don't appreciate them.
digger

[a.squibload]

GHTB: go home to battery?
I know it has something to do with closing up the action.

I tried to look up GHTB on Dogpile, found this:
http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/GHTB.htm


PS: Kahr PM40 rules!
Avatar is Meprolights installed with a 4-wheel buddy's hydraulic press.

[shootinxd]

I use 4.0 grns of Red Dot(yea I know theres no listin for Red Dot)works great for me.

[parrott1969]

Thanks guys, I think I will try to put a little extra crimp and see if it will resize the boolit enough to get it to chamber.

[geargnasher]

GHTB: go home to battery?
I know it has something to do with closing up the action.

I tried to look up GHTB on Dogpile, found this:
http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/GHTB.htm


PS: Kahr PM40 rules!
Avatar is Meprolights installed with a 4-wheel buddy's hydraulic press.

One way of saying it. Go into battery, home to battery, basically the final closing of the action which creates the "lock" which will hold during firing. Most guns have a mechanism which prevents firing unless the action is completely closed, although some are kinda iffy.

Gear

[a.squibload]

Gnasher, thanks, knew it had to be something like that.
Maybe I worry too much about acronyms.


Shootinxd, thanks, I have Red Dot but my Speer manual was written before 40S&W was thunk up!
Boolit weight?

[geargnasher]

There are far better powder choices than Red Dot for the .40 IMO, but to each their own. I've used it, but never liked how it skidded the boolits I recovered.

Gear

[shootinxd]

a.squibload,I am shooting Lee 175grn TC seated to coal of 1.085ish with Red Dot which has no published data @ 4.0 grns.Make sure lead edge of bullet is not hitting against leade edge of barrel which is going to cause a lead ring in the chamber and won't allow the next round to go into battery.All my rounds are checked in the chamber with the barrel removed from the gun,all fall freely in and out and rim of case is flush.I have tried AA #5,Power piston and a couple others with accuracy issues I settled on Red Dot.

[a.squibload]

Thanks, might give it a shot....:lol:

[afrance]

When I remove the barrel and place cartridge in chamber it is clearly visible that the web is out to far. Any ideas?

If the web is too far out, no amount of crimp is going to change that. Does the Sigma and XD fully support the chamber or are you getting bulged brass.

If those support the chamber, did you pick up or purchase brass that was not fully "de-glocked" to remove the bulge at the web?

[HammerMTB]

Most aftermarket barrel makers will do this for free.

I ran into the same problem with a Lone Wolf bbl for my Glock. They offered to ream in longer for me so it would chamber the rounds @ SAMMI listed length.
I got the bbl back and the chamber was .050" too long, so it was going on a 10MM bbl marked as a 40S&W.
These comments so if you go running a throating reamer in your bbl, be careful it doesn't come back to bite you! :roll:

[Jbar4Ranch]

AHA! Confirmation of my own problem!

Due to S&W's rebate program, I recently bought a new SW40VE and am using the same Lee bullet sized to .401". These rounds work fine in four other .40 S&W chambered guns, and although slugging shows an acceptable .400" - .401", they WILL NOT chamber in the Sigma. I stepped into my shop and turned out a new lubrisizer die that measures ~.3975", a tad under my target, but I got tired of polishing. Anyway, despite "oversizing" the bullet, these not only chamber fine, but accuracy is as good as I expect from any of my other guns.

[dogbert41]

The Lee TL 175 TC has to be loaded at least 1.115 for my M&P as well. I've never had a FTF or FTE with that bullet at that length. I generally load it at 4.0 Power Pistol for a light loadout, though I've gone higher.

[truckmsl]

I ran into the same problem with a Lone Wolf bbl for my Glock. They offered to ream in longer for me so it would chamber the rounds @ SAMMI listed length.
I got the bbl back and the chamber was .050" too long, so it was going on a 10MM bbl marked as a 40S&W.
These comments so if you go running a throating reamer in your bbl, be careful it doesn't come back to bite you! :roll:

Lone Wolf ruined your barrel if they cut the chamber .050" deeper. They should have just slightly opened up the diameter of the chamber -to-leade transition. Call customer service and tell them what happened and they will replace your barrel. Someone didn't understand about headspacing on the case mouth. This recently happened to me as well.

[HammerMTB]

Lone Wolf ruined your barrel if they cut the chamber .050" deeper. They should have just slightly opened up the diameter of the chamber -to-leade transition. Call customer service and tell them what happened and they will replace your barrel. Someone didn't understand about headspacing on the case mouth. This recently happened to me as well.

I'm well aware that they ruined it. I called them to tell them what happened, and they said they'd refund my money, but not cut another bbl. It took me 3 months to get my money back, but not the shipping cost to send it to them to ruin.
There was a lot of 'tude on their part, saying it couldn't be true.
No more Lone Wolf stuff for me.

[Doby45]

Storm Lake are excellent aftermarket barrels.

[truckmsl]

I'm well aware that they ruined it. I called them to tell them what happened, and they said they'd refund my money, but not cut another bbl. It took me 3 months to get my money back, but not the shipping cost to send it to them to ruin.
There was a lot of 'tude on their part, saying it couldn't be true.
No more Lone Wolf stuff for me.

Hammer - That 's a bad deal. For some reason they treated me better than that. I was pretty unhappy at first but they made it right in the end. Wonder what's going on there? I've had the same work done before and they were great.