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Three-Fifty-Seven
08-07-2010, 04:04 PM
Sighting in a scope . . . or three!

I recently bought two old Remington 511P 22's bolt action 25" barrels with factory peeps . . . the one I got for my wife had the barrel shot out, or should I say cleaned out! The last 3" to the muzzle were close to shotgun material! I ended up taking 3.75" off the barrel, and drilling and tapping the receiver for Weaver mounts, I had an old Tasco 3X12 40 mm scope on a 10/22 I plan on getting rid of . . . so I put that on there for her. I also cut off 1.75" off the butt, installed sling swivels, and a sling. The stock was unfinished, so I gave it a oiled finish . . .
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Remington%20511P/Rem511PC22.jpg

We set up at 27 yards, as that is where the shade tree is! First shot . . . complete miss! I moved up to the 10 yard line, off the paper to the left and high! fired 5 more to get it close, had to move it alot as even though it was a 1/4" min at 100 yards it takes alot at ten yards! Moved back to 27 yards, more fine tuning . . . ended up doing the same with my 22 . . . The Tasco came of a set of see thru sights, one reason it was off so much!

This is my Remington 511P:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Remington%20511P/Rem511P22.jpg

Once we were happy the gun was close . . . we each shot two targets with a mag full plus one in the tube, one here second target she had a dud . . . so only six rounds . . . She shot the top row, and me the bottom . . . 3/4" bullseye.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Remington%20511P/25y22s.jpg
Not the best shooting, but we wanted to leave room for improvement later! . . . :bigsmyl2:

I then got out my Rem 700 BDL in 270 and a box of factory Rem 130gr . . . (I don't have my gas checkmaker yet!) First shot was low, so I cranked it up some remembering this scope was 1/8" min . . . got it close using 10 shots . . . last shot was center, but all at 27 yards, glad I bought a Limbsaver 1" recoil pad!
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Remington%20511P/Rem700BDL270.jpg

1" Bullseye.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Remington%20511P/25y270.jpg

I then looked around for a place I could set up 100 yards . . . nothing around, so I looked up on the hill, and there appeared to be an opening a ways up there . . . I staple a new target on the piece of plywood, and hike up there till I could see my car:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Remington%20511P/150yards.jpg
This is in a National Forest . . . my car is beige and in the center of photo! My scope has adjustable focus, it did not like 100 or 200 yards, but 150 was good . . . 18X is nice for that range!

I set up my target, and go back down, and first shot is low and to the right, so I crank the dials (remembering the 1/8" min) forgetting that I'm not at 27 yards but 153 paces off (big steps as I'm coming down a grade!) But because I'm a conservative guy I don't move them as far as I should . . . and I forgot to tell you that I can only see about half of the target, because there is brush in the way! Second shot is barely on the paper, I then realize my mistake, and move it back to the right, in small steps . . . but I'm hitting in the black and can't see where I'm hitting! So I take a hike back up to see what is going on! I then see what happened, and did a little more fine tuning, and last shot was in the middle like I had hoped all would go! So a total of ten shots here, and twenty for the day!
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Remington%20511P/150y270.jpg

Mostly I'm just posting this, because I figure if I can forget, that maybe someone else may also forget about adjusting the clicks for how far away we are!

And besides I know you are bored, and wanted to look at some pictures!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
08-07-2010, 06:39 PM
Shawn,

This is a bit different then your method, but I have, whenever sighting in a bolt action or one of my single shots, just put the gun on a solid rest, remove the bolt or open the action, carefully center the target in the bore and adjust the cross hairs until they also center the target.

If your careful doing this process, you take a lot of mess'in around out of the picture.

I have an old target - 2/17/71 - on the wall, 5 1/2 X 9 1/2" on which I fired 7 shots from a new rifle. Bore sighted as above. the 1st shot landed about 3 1/2" high and an inch to the right. Second shot was about 1 1/2" high and still right, so I corrected for windage (over corrected) and shot a 7/16" - 5 shot group about 3/4" left.

First seven shots, all on a small target at 100yds from a new rifle.

No fuss, no muss. Now they don't all work out that well, but with a normal sized target sheet, seldom are they off the paper.

I have never used the 25yd. sightin, as it always seemed so easy to just do it at 100yds and avoid all the fuss.

With a .22, a more reasonable distance would probably 50 yds, but the method is still the same.

Also, shooting off the bench, 270 and above I always let the rifle beat a sand bag or as the case while working up cast boolit hunting loads for my 45/70, I use the shot filled, over the shoulder sissy bag the wife made me.

Off the bench, a rifle can really pound you. I like to shoot, I don't like pain, and I REALLY don't like a rifle to get me recoil shy. Been there done that years back, so now just try to avoid the problem before it starts.

Have a good day, be safe and enjoy!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol"Coot

captaint
08-07-2010, 07:52 PM
I'm with Crusty, in terms of method. It does work well and save ammo and whatnot. And then there's that lever gun...25, 50 and so on.. enjoy Mike

stephen perry
08-07-2010, 08:21 PM
Your wasting your ammo if you take a new to you gun and a new scope and proceed to find your target at 100 yd. You did right in sighting in at 25 yd. One thing I would recommend. At 25 yd use a large piece paper with one sighting dot in the middle. Hold the dot if you hit the paper hold the dot again dial your scope to where your shot hit hold the bullet hole if you have a good hold you will hit the shot. You are done sighting in 2 shots. If you don't hit the paper pull your bolt look through your barrel holding the dot click your scope to hold the dot, simple. Now you can go to 100 and shoot 3 shots they will be several inches higher than your aiming point hold your aiming point dial scope where you want to hold for the group. If you want a inch high at 100 dial your scope an inch low of the group. Now how hard is that, a child could understand that, they do the same in their geometry class.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Blammer
08-07-2010, 09:04 PM
I just zero 2" high at 20yds and I'm good to go all the way out to 753 yards with my 270. :):kidding:

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
08-07-2010, 09:10 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm???????

Guess my math is too old as I find it hard to see wasted ammo in 7 shots to get a basic sight in, 5 of which were fired into a 7/16" group.

Considering I am and have been a handloader since well before that 1971 group was fired, the third shot had me well within the needed point of impact for the firing of many test rounds to come.

The other 4 were just frosting, making up one of many groups I have on the wall of my reloading area.

I guess Stephen's method just proves there could be more then one way to arrive at the needed conclusion. However, I as stated, I have never needed the 25yd target to be included in my process.

If it was always so simple, then I am doing a great lot of fine tuning on my scope mounted 45/70 for nothing.

However, such is not the case, after years of handloading, and sighting in a goodly number of rifles I have found nothing that walks groups around the target like developing cast Boolit loads for my 45/70.

Never have I seen a rifle shoot lower with a heavier load, but have seen it a number of time during the current testing. Then there is the need to dial in some change because of a migration toward off the target hits as loads increase.

I guess we can and will all develop methods which work for us, and that is why I find no need to set up anything other then 100yd. targets.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

1Shirt
08-07-2010, 09:16 PM
Agree with sighting in at 25 with an new scope, maybe even 1/2 that distance for 22. Had a strange thing happen with a new scope on a 375 H and H awhile back. The first time it has ever happened. I mounted the scope, put up a large target at 25, one at 50, and one at 100 (my standard practice for new rifle/scope). At 25, the first shot was dead center X, put two more down and had one very tight clover leaf. Went to 50, and it was 12 o'clock high and about an inch and a half high for 3 shot clover leaf. Then at 100, was just about 1/2 or so inch high and 3 shots produced about 1 1/2".
It was with a cast load! Doubt it will ever happen again! Kinda like the old sayin, "even a blind hog occaisionaly finds an acorn!"
1Shirt!:coffee:

Three-Fifty-Seven
08-07-2010, 09:18 PM
Crusty,

I heard of that way, but . . . My wobbly fold up table with a bag on it, ain't really steady . . . but I shoot way more than 20 rounds anyways . . . and now that I have my Limbsaver, it is actually fun to shoot!

Be good when I can actually shoot my own cast in it . . .

Stephen, I was gonna just crank it, but it seemed like a long ways to go . . . so little bits at a time.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
08-07-2010, 11:32 PM
Hey Benz, to bad your not closer, I could whip you up a set of my pipe leg, bench rest legs.

Add a couple layers of 3/4" plywood and your good to go with a nice stable bench.

Take down if ya want to, but mine is "up" most of the time. Just stick it in the P.U. and away I go.

It is way better, IMHO, then over the top of the car or on the ground like I used to do.

Top of mine is gett'in a bit ratty, need to look for some new plywood for a replacement top.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

stephen perry
08-08-2010, 01:09 AM
If your first shot is out of the range of your scopes adjustments you need to work on the base and rings to get your scope more in line with axis of your bore. Depending on what basea and rings you might have adjustment as in a Redfield base or you might need to shim your base. For rings you try reversing them or exchange front to back. Something will so that your first shot is close enough to dial your crosshairs too.

I am an RSO and I get to the Range before and during hunting season to help the guys sight in. I tell all the same pull your target into 25 yds and save two boxes of ammo sighting in. I have been shooting since 1963 the 25 yd method is published in several hunting books and manuals.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

rhead
08-08-2010, 04:58 AM
I do a course adjustment by removing the bolt and adjusting the crosshairs to the point of sight. Then I fire a shot. Next I resight on the bullseye and firmly attach the rife to the bench. (Vice or bunjee cords) Using the scope adjustment knobs I move the crosshairs from the bullseye to the point of impact. It is now ready for fine tuning at a further distance. I usually go for 2.5 inches high at 100 yards with most rifles.

44man
08-08-2010, 07:13 AM
I do a course adjustment by removing the bolt and adjusting the crosshairs to the point of sight. Then I fire a shot. Next I resight on the bullseye and firmly attach the rife to the bench. (Vice or bunjee cords) Using the scope adjustment knobs I move the crosshairs from the bullseye to the point of impact. It is now ready for fine tuning at a further distance. I usually go for 2.5 inches high at 100 yards with most rifles.
This is my method. I bore sight at 100 yards and the first shot will be on paper, then move the cross hairs to POI and reserve measuring to the final clicks.
So many scopes today do not follow what the clicks are supposed to be. Seems to be rare when 1/4" clicks actually move anything 1/4". I see a lot that the windage is different then elevation too.

steg
08-08-2010, 07:38 AM
This is more for the humor of it than anything else, I knew an old farmer and one day he decided to zero in his old .22, I dont remember the make or model, other than it was a bolt action. What he did was to clamp the gun in a vise and fire a shot thru the barn wall, looking thru the scope he dialed the crosshairs on the boolit hole, hows that for sighting in with one shot? LOL.........steg

Three-Fifty-Seven
08-08-2010, 08:33 AM
I admit after the first shot with the 270 I could have moved out to the 150 yard point . . . but I was having fun . . .

Stephen I had not thought of shimming while I was out there, but I had heard of it, just the rememberer was, well . . . getting older . . . I'm awful forgetful!

I will admit that I don't have a good way of drill and taping . . . on the second one at least I had the sights on and ran a straight edge between the two and drew a line on the receiver, now the first one . . . well I fought with both bases to line up . . . had to reposition the rear base! The 700 BDL came all drilled and tapped, and I already had bases and rings on it . . .

All well that ends well!

I got the 22's to help us with our marksmanship we are going to a Appleseed in the middle of September, hopefully we can shoot better after some formal instruction!

DCP
08-08-2010, 08:47 AM
At 25 yd use a large piece paper with one sighting dot in the middle.

If you have a rifle rest now is the time to use it

Hold the crosshairs of the scope on the dot and fire a shot.

If you have a cleaning rest you can use it to hold the rifle (don’t fire the rifle in it though)

Now hold on the dot you just aimed at and dial your scope to where your 1st shot hit

Now fire at the 1st dot or 1st shot hit it doesn’t matter. I always shoot the 1st shot hole

82nd airborne
08-08-2010, 08:51 AM
Mr. Perry's statement about shooting once, then moving the sights to the bullet hole, is quite correct. You can sight in a rifle with one round this way, and of course follow it up with a group to be sure.

Three-Fifty-Seven
08-08-2010, 09:04 AM
Thanks Crusty . . . but . . . no pickup now, I do miss it though, may be getting one soon (Diesel of course!) But for now . . . this is what I got:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Mercedes%20Benz/82%20240D/82MBAtStrongholdRanchs.jpg

This next picture has 500 New Testament Bibles in the trunk to give you an idea of how it sags under a load!
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Mercedes%20Benz/82%20240D/500Bibles030.jpg

It does not have very good ground clearance, especially when I put a 90+ lbs boolit trap in the trunk, 4-5 long guns in the back seat, along with a table a a couple of chairs! And where I drive, most people would require a 4X4 . . . but the Benz is low hp, but good torque, and pulls me through, it's just I need to be careful about scraping bottom.


[smilie=s:

stephen perry
08-08-2010, 10:29 AM
We all sight-in the same way more or less. For you armory brats left over from WWII, Korea, or Vietnam remember your training days same procedure. I learned from my gun shop boss a WW11 Vet.

Diesel the base shim was from what I went throgh in my friends shop for 25 years, every hunting season. My friend /smith and myself mounted literally hudreds of scopes and solved mount errors in his shop. All those lousy Mausers with crooked recievers most times had to be shimmed. Bore sighting in shop generally would get you on the paper, that's why I suggested a large piece of paper with a single dot in the middle, shoot a shot hold the same POA dial to the shot shoot again second shot will be close to first then you can continue to shoot and establish your average group size. I have watched guys try and sight in at 100 yd. After a box of ammo they come over and ask me to help them. We pull the target back to 25 yd and then the guy finds out that at 25 he usually is a foot of his aim point at 100 he is off the paper, why be macho man and blow up target boards looking for lost shots at 100. Go to 25 and look like you know what your doing. Then go go to 100 and fine tune your POI say 1 1/2-2 inches high for a 200 yd POI. Been there done that helped many.

Iron sight guys I admire maybe more than us glass guys. They really have to know their rifle/handgun to sight in well. Takes allot of talent to perform with iron sights. I have a Winchester 69 Match Target and enjoy the peep sight, feel like a Pilrgim shootin at ground squirrels a couple hundred years ago. I have a Win 94, several 22's, and 3 Mausers all iron sights, of coarse several handguns. In Boy Scouts I was in charge of the shooting merit badge. I provided most of the 22's. My way they had to qualify with iron sights before I let them shoot my scoped 22's.

Make each shot count. My dad gave me 5 shells at our Desert dwelling, I Cast he reloaded, for our S&W 36 and he wanted to know where each went when I came back. I roamed the Desert when I was a youth, I still roam the Desert.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR