40 65 Win.

[looseprojectile]

41 cal. boolit ? Cimaron high wall rifle.
I traded for a singleshot rifle recently. I have since found NO SUPPORT for 40 caliber rifle shooters. Went to a small gunshow yesterday and no joy. No boolits. I have determined that a .41 magnum handgun boolit may be the answer.
This rifle has a bore of .4005 and groove of .4085 . I will most likely need a .410 plain base of 250 - 320 grain. Already made a sizer die in .409. I fired the fiftyfour loaded rounds that came with the gun and couldn't have hit a basketball reliably at seventy yards. They were loaded with 264 gr. .406 dia. store bought boolits.
I need advice, help, please.
About a week ago EXPLORER 1 mentioned a mold that he might sell or trade, that might work for me.
Happy shooting

[Jon K]

looseprojectile,

What are you planning to do with this gun? There are a lot of production molds out there, Lyman, RCBS, Saeco, Hoch, Rapine. Most are BPCR, check out Buffalo Arms.

Jon

:castmine:

[looseprojectile]

Mr. K;
I'm mostly interested in smaller groups, I'm way too old to start competition shooting, maybe hunting blacktail deer. Lyman , RCBS and Lee had nothing in stock in .410 dia.
I didn't want to spend more than a hundred bucks on a mold that might not work well. I will probably load mostly smokeless powder.
I have a handfull of 350 grain .410 boolits from an original Sharps mold that i will load to see if they will stabilize in an 18 inch twist. I may even try some 210 grain handgun J word projectiles.
Thanks for your input.

[6pt-sika]

I have a pair of moulds I got from a gentleman in a deal .
One is the is the Lyman 410655 . This is a 400 grain FN PB bullet that was made for 40-65 silhouette shooters I believe its supposed to throw a bullet around .410.
Also got a RCBS 40 cal CSA mould that casts at .410 can't remember what weight that one is but I believe its 350 grain .

Anyway the new 40-65 rifles generally need bullets of .409 or .410 as they are a little larger then the old guns.

I have an old Marlin 1895 in 40-65 and it looks like it will be alright with .406-.408 bullets . Although I've not gotten around to shooting it yet.

[6pt-sika]

I've got a copy of Venturino's book on Buffalo Rifles .
He has a chapter in there on BPCR shooting and in the 40-65 part he is using a rifle with a 1-16 twist and shooting bullets up to 534 grains with good results .

So with your 1-18 twist I would think you could handle up to 400-425 grains no problem .

[KCSO]

Try Doc Carlson at Upper Missouri Trading Co in Crofton 402-388-4844. He use to stock bullets for the 40 cal. Buffalo Arms has cast bullets in stock and PP bullets too.

[6pt-sika]

IMHO if I were in your shoes I'd get a .410 or .412 sizing die . Also I would give a lot of thought to the RCBS 40 cal CSA moulds .

[wills]

From the Lyman Catalog, .410 Boolits

Heavy 40 cal bullet designed for Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/images/410655.gif

A new Paul Matthews design. This tapered 40 cal bullet is ideal for black powder silhouette shooting. It allows for heavier powder charges because it can be seated out of the case farther than other designs.
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/images/410678.gif

Pointed 40 cal silhouette bullet with a good ballistic coefficient. Excellent accuracy in 40-65
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/images/410660.gif

Designed by Ron Snover. This B.P.C.S. bullet has the highest ballistic coefficient of all 40 cal bullets and higher than most 45-70 bullets.
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/images/410663.gif

From NEI
http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/410-400-pb-350.jpg
http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/410-410.jpg
http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/410-415-pb.jpg
http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/410-455.jpg

From Paul Jones
http://www.pauljonesmoulds.com/40_caliber.htm

[onceabull]

and Saeco Has # 640 & 740.. to my regret I was outbid this wk for a two cav.one of each of the above. Is there anyone that hasn't heard how much I like Saeco moulds? :roll: Onceabull

[wills]

Saeco, from Buffalo Arms
http://www.buffaloarms.com/prodimg/SAE61640.jpg (single cavity)
http://www.buffaloarms.com/prodimg/SAE65640.jpg (double cavity)

[Buckshot]

.............looseprojectile, as has been pointed out, there are a BUNCH of good 40 cal moulds out there. I have a Pedersoli Super Match rolling block in 40-65 with a 34" bbl and a 16" twist. It's barrel is .400"x.408" and I feed it slugs sized .410". My favorite slug to use for just general shooting is the RCBS 300gr FNPB.

With the slug seated on a cardwad, at 1600 fps it's a great shooter.

..................Buckshot

[looseprojectile]

I thank you all for the gusher of information.
I will make my selection of a mold based on your experience. As I have become recoil challenged in my old age I will probably go with the lighter 300 grain RCBS as this gun has a crescent butt. The gun came with a Marbles tang sight and I removed it because I could not find a way to hold it without getting poked by the sight during recoil. I also changed the rear sight to a Marbles flat top shallow u notch, a lot like most milsurps, as I shoot well with these.
I will come back with an update when I have some experience loading and shooting this gun.
Happy shooting

[wills]

They were loaded with 264 gr. .406 dia. store bought boolits.



“This was the original Winchester bullet for the 40-65, 40-82, 40-110. Bullet diameter is .406" as cast” -Lyman
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/images/403169

You might consider that store bought bullet was probably cast too hard. Sometimes those store bought bullets are made to sell and survive shipping, more than to shoot. If you shoot blackpowder and boolits cast 20/1 or 30/1 lead/tin, which is probably what that rifle was intended for you might get away with using a .408. NEI has several. http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/408.html

[45 2.1]

41 cal. boolit ? Cimaron high wall rifle.
I traded for a singleshot rifle recently. I have since found NO SUPPORT for 40 caliber rifle shooters. Went to a small gunshow yesterday and no joy. No boolits. I have determined that a .41 magnum handgun boolit may be the answer.
This rifle has a bore of .4005 and groove of .4085 . I will most likely need a .410 plain base of 250 - 320 grain. Already made a sizer die in .409. I fired the fiftyfour loaded rounds that came with the gun and couldn't have hit a basketball reliably at seventy yards. They were loaded with 264 gr. .406 dia. store bought boolits.
I need advice, help, please.
About a week ago EXPLORER 1 mentioned a mold that he might sell or trade, that might work for me.
Happy shooting

The Lyman boolit that weight casts at 0.4075" out of my mold and will probably be too small for you. You need to check the inside diameter of the neck of a fired case from your rifle to see if it will accept a 0.409" boolit. Since yours is newly manufactured it might do that OK, but most originals will not. 475/480 ran a very nice Group Buy gas checked boolit at 265 gr. that would work nicely in your rifle some time ago. One of use that have the boolit should be able to supply you with some to try out.

[drinks]

LP;
Midwatusa lists 2 Lee .410" molds, a 195gr SWC, plain base,and a 210gr, tumble lube SWC.
Both are less an $20.
I just went to Midwayusa, and did a search for .410 molds.
A little light,but useable.
Art Edwards, at The Hunter's life forum, does his hunting with a.40-65 and BP, I am sure he would know where molds and bullets are hidden.

[fourarmed]

I have been shooting a Cimarron (Uberti) highwall for several years now. I started with the .41 mag molds I had, but couldn't get the accuracy I wanted. I bought the RCBS 300 grain CAS mold, and settled on 24 gr./5744 as a very accurate load. I used it off and on in cowboy silhouette (standing, 50 - 200m.) and did well on chickens and pigs, but by the time I got to turkeys and rams the flinch factor was usually doing me in. In the meantime, I had ordered a Mountain Mold for my .41 mag revolver that dropped a 235 gr. PB bullet that had a nose remarkably like the RCBS CAS bullet. I loaded some of them with a light charge of Unique, and got accuracy just as good, with almost no recoil. I've only shot one match with that load, but I tied my best score ever with the 300 grainer.

With that 18 twist, I think you need to keep the velocity down with the light bullets. Another thing I have seen with mine is that it has a tendency to rust the bore if you don't clean it religiously after shooting.

[KCSO]

Remember that the 40-65 was not designed as a target round. It was originaly more of a 40 express round for deer and similar game. This is why the 264 bullet. Our current target shooters made the 40-65 (Ron Long) into what we have today. The 330 bullet seems to be a good compromise bullet when sized at 410 or so. Unless I was into long range shooting I would not go with the 400 and above.

[looseprojectile]

Now I am comitted;
Ordered an RCBS 300 grain mold from Buffalo arms this morning.
Evidently everyone is shooting steel rams with these guns as there is little choice in the lighter .41 caliber boolits.
Any one use Thompsons bore butter to season the bore with smokeless loads? I have done this with other rifles shooting cast. It may just be my perception though it seems to help a lot with the first round, reduces, elimanates leading for me.
Happy shooting

[Boz330]

I have a 40-65 C Sharps Highwall in 18 twist and have not had any luck with 400gr bullets. The RCBS 350 shoots the best so far although I haven't tried the lighter bullets. For smokless I used 14gr Unique which pretty much duplicates the BP loading and is much more pleasant to shoot. Groups were just over MOA at a 100yd.

Bob

[looseprojectile]

One more question.
Buckshot , are you useing 2F or 3F ?
Does brand matter much? Iv'e got GOEX and Elephant in both granulations. Ok so, two questions.
Happy shooting

[Buckshot]

One more question.
Buckshot , are you useing 2F or 3F ?
Does brand matter much? Iv'e got GOEX and Elephant in both granulations. Ok so, two questions.
Happy shooting

..............I've never loaded it with BP, sorry to say (sorry for THIS discussion anyway :-) Smokless powders I've used are Unique, 2400, 4227, SR4759, and 4198. Due to the 34" bbl I've found it usefull to have a cardwad (tablet backer) under a PB boolit as it helps prevent leading in the last few inches. I've heard that people with rifles having 34" tubes who compete eventually end up having 2-4" removed ;-)

I'd once bought a 6 cavity mould off Lee's surplus site that cast a 41 cal 240gr SWC-PB with the idea of using it for a light close range target boolit. It just never worked out, with 50 yard groups of 3" or worse and pretty bad leading in the last 4-5" of the barrel. A GC slug might have worked though.

For awile after the turn of the last century there were many, many types of BP being made. These had been refined to a very high degree in the finest types by the best makers. Today we have only just a very few choices available to us. When GOEX was the only game in town, here in the U.S. it seemed their attitude was 'This is what we make. Use this or don't shoot'. Thier lot to lot control was about absent and thier raw ingredients were almost fertilizer grade.

With the importation of Elephant (who was willing to try and give shooters what they wanted) GOEX began paying attention a bit more. The Elephant plant was destroyed, but happily we now have Swiss, German and Czech BP's to choose from. I've only used the Swiss in 2 and 3 Fg grades and it is a superior powder in most all regards. From what I heard from those who had been able to compare, and those who had done extensive testing, it's the closest we have to the fine sporting grade powders of the late 1800's.

I've also heard that GOEX has seen the light and is providing a product much superior to what they had 5 years ago. There was a stampede to Swiss amongst several groups using BP in competition, but many have returned to GOEX probably more having to do with price then it's equality with Swiss.

.................Buckshot

[wills]

Goex has a board you might want to look at.

“Bearclaw--A good starting point in your 40-65 is a Saeco 740 bullet at 30-1 and 56 grains of Goex 3f. This is a good silhouette load, and works well across the course at Quigley. This will give you about 1190 fps. If you need more horsepower, 60 grains of 3f will do the job. Shoot straight,”…

http://www.goexpowder.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1237

http://www.goexpowder.com/phpBB2/index.php

[looseprojectile]

OH THE JOY
The BBT arrived this afternoon with my new TWO CAVITY 40 300 RCBS mold. Cast about fifty and loaded them up with H 4198.
First four shots went into about 3/4" 5" High. Adjusted the sight down two notches and shot another group a little over an inch with a flyer low.
Shooting at seventy yards on a 50 ft pistol target. Last four all in the 3" black.
I had planned to load some with XMR 5744 but maybe I don't have to if I can get repeated groups like this.
I am flabergasted at how fast Buffalo Arms and UPS got this mold to me. Of course Idaho is right next door to me here in Washington. Also I thought I ordered a single cavity mold and got a double cavity. Life is good! Thank all of you that helped me with this rifle.

[Boz330]

LP,
I found that 2F Swiss shot a little better in mine than 3F. You might give the 5744 a try. I have an 1886 Win 40-82 that was relined with a 1-18 twist and it really likes the 5744 with the 350 RCBS bullet. I shoot strictly BP in the Highwall since I use it for BPCRS.

Bob