45 Colt Blackhawkt barrel length

[0802]

Soliciting thoughts on appropriate barrel length for a 45 Colt Blackhawk. Virtually no experience with 45 Colt, but I do have some with 44 Mag. Primary use at this point would be target shooting, but would eventually hunt with it, primarily whitetails, but maybe pigs too. The hunting piece pushes me towards the longer barrels, but is there a point of diminishing returns with regards to barrel length?

Thanks,
Josh

[felix]

16 inches per pistol case size rifle is about right for diminishing returns. This is a function of powder speed and the bore diameter combo. This is about where the mathematical (1st) derivitive of the accelleration curve goes to zero and below. ... felix

[KCSO]

If you are talking a handgun here its what you like. A fellow I know shoots his 4 3/4" better than i can shoot a 7" just because it fits him and his eyes see the sights better. There is no practical difference in accuracy between a 4 and a 8 " barrel, but i would rather carry a 4". As to power do you suppose that whatever you hit is going to refuse to roll over because your load was 25 fps slower than it could have been? Choose your application and then get the gun to suit.

[44man]

For hunting, the 7-1/2" is best. The longer sight radius makes it easier for distance and the muzzle blast is farther out. The short barrels require ear muffs when hunting. Unless you need a backup gun when it doesn't matter.

[45 2.1]

I've tried all the barrel lengths associated with the 45 Colt Blackhawks and found the 5 1/2" the best for me. Try them all to see what fits you best.

[Char-Gar]

I like them all, but as time goes by, I can shoot the longer 7.5" barrel better. If I could have one to use for hunting, it would have a 7.5" barrel.

[Jack Stanley]

I've shot the seven and a half and the four and five-eigths and I like the longer barrel better for shooting . The snubbie is great for carry while doing chores though .

Jack

[Four Fingers of Death]

I aleays wanted a four and five eights length Bbl on my sixguns, but when I finally got around to buying one 5.5" was all that was in stock. I went with that and have been very happy with it. I have since bought three more at that length. I had a 7.5" Bisley, but its gone now.

If you asked me and you sort of did I suppose, I'd say go for the 7.5" as you can use it for silouette, etc later on and it will be a bit better for hunting (althought you probably would'nt notice it.

As far as all round usage goes the 5.5" is great, and it looks balanced as well.

I am thinking of ordering a pair of sequentially numbered new Vaqueros ad am torn between the short and medium length Bbls. They will be used for cowboy action so I suppose the shorter ones might be a bit more practical.

Whatever you buy you will love it. I love my 586 (first Centrefire revolver) and my Old Model Vaquero (my first single action).

Mick.

[longhorn]

Felix- I assume you are telling us that velocity will cease to increase or even decrese with most pistol cartridges in barrels longer than 16"? I have certainly seen data to show this in .22 rimfire rifles. Have you obtained or seen chrono data to support this ? I'm not being argumentative, just interested. I have .45LC levers w 16, 20, and 24" barrels, and "warmish" loads with Unique, Red Dot, 2400, and H110 all show roughly (can't find my data book right now!) 100fps increase from 16 to 20 and 20 to 24. Of course, these are 3 different guns, with 3 different types of rifling, different chambers, etc. Also, I wonder if the case capacity of the .45LC may make it a sort of "outlyer" in terms of "handgun" cartridges-therefore the velocity loss calculation may not hold quite true for this cartridge? Actually, I think the H110 gain may have been higher in the longest barrel---where the devil is that little spiral notebook.......
Any further comments?

[454PB]

I have a 7 1/2" Blackhawk convertible, but ever since I bought my 4 3/4" Freedom Arms .454, I've wanted a similar length Blackhawk.

[Dale53]

I bought a 4 5/8's inch Vaquero for Cowboy action shooting. After shooting it for a while I decided that I wanted a slightly longer revolver. I chose a 5.5" Bisley Vaquero. Both were very nice guns but the 5.5" is definitely easier to hit with - noticeably easier. I think that it is an excellent choice for a hunting handgun. My Vaquero 4 5/8" shot with perfect windage but I had to remove some from the front sight for "on point" at 25 yards. As it happened, the Bisley 5.5" shoots exactly to the sights for me. 250 gr bullets were used in both cases. I was shooting black and Pyrodex pistol. Got over 900 fps with Pyrodex Pistol.

There is quite a difference between Elephant, Goex, and Swiss. Mike Venturino pointed this out and my chronograph verified his findings. You might want to check his book out - it is a dandy on the Colt Pistols "Shooting Colt Single Actions". He has another good book, "Shooting Sixguns of the Old West".

Dale53

[Cayoot]

If you are looking for a hunting round, then perhaps you should consider the performance factor as much as the "preference for carry" factor. While I really like the 4 5/8" bbl length for carry, the short length is no friend to low pressure loads.

The .44 mag makes much better use of the short bbl length due to the high pressures of the load. These higher pressures allows more momentem to be developed in a shorter length of time.

Like I said, I really like short bbls, however, with my .45Colts, I have both a 7 1/2 inch black hawk and a 4 inch S&W Mnt Gun. The difference that is developed between these two guns (shooting the exact same load) is an eye opener. The longer bbl gives time for the slower developing pressure of the .45 Colt round to build much better than my 4 inch. This is a shame, cuz I really love to carry and shoot the Mnt Gun.

But due to the performance difference that the extra 3 1/2 inches makes, and because when I'm hunting, I can never be sure of what range I'll be shooting, I use my Black Hawk for hunting.

So I would suggest that, if you are using it for variable ranges, and possibly variable game, (deer, hogs or bear) then you should go with a bbl length no shorter than 5.5" and preferably 7 1/2 inch. Besides, if you change your mind later, it us usually much cheaper to cut a couple of inches off the bbl than to get a new bbl that is a couple inches longer!

I still carry my mnt gun when snow shoeing or trapping, it is great for close range defense against big critters. When I'm hunting or shooting long ranges, I opt for the 7 1/2 inch bbl.

I know that the blackhawk will handle hotter loads than my Smith, but that is not really a factor to me anymore. I have found that the loads that are good for my Smith are strong enough for any black bear I may run into up here in Michigans' Frozen Northwoods. So I use the same load for both guns. But like I said, the performance difference between the two bbl lengths with the same cartridge/load is very noticible.

I'm sorry that this was so long, but I hope I provided some "food for thought" for you.:-D

[felix]

Longhorn, the velocity continues upwards as long as the pressure force in the barrel overcomes the resistance force. Thus you can read all day those manuals that support an increase of velocity as the barrel gets longer as truth. However, the diminishing returns is when the pressure is not being built up fast enough to maintain the same boolit accelleration REQUIREMENTS (that which causes the accelleration) as the boolit moves down the barrel. I know, it is hard to visualize this kind of math. It's like thinking in 4 dimensions as opposed to the normal 3 which everyone is familiar with. Keep in mind we are talking here about fully loaded cartridges with optimized powder speed for the bore. The magic 16 inch barrel length will change otherwise. This length might have been chosen on purpose to differentiate pistols and rifles by the ATF labs. Who knows how those folks really think; maybe smart for a change. ... felix


This might help: Think of the stages of rockets used to propel the space shuttle. The first stage drops off (to lessen the weight of the boolit, if you will) so the same accelleration curve can be maintained. Picking the exact time of booster rejection is equivalent to the magic 16 inches. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Felix,

You may find this story interesting. A gun writer wanted to see how much barrel it would take before a 32acp bullet wouldn't pop out of the muzzle. Well he had a good gunsmith friend and this smithy had 30 cal barrel stock in long sections already bored and rifled, AND he had a unique method of being able to couple these sections together including the rifling lining up. They found out some interesting things. One was the velocity kept increasing for quite some barrel lenght. Please forgive me, but this was long ago and I can't remember that optimum length for that particular factory round. The other thing I do remember and that was it took alittle over 32 feet of barrel before the bullet failed to exist. They were trying to get it to stop so that you could see it at or near the muzzle. They said they both were astonished.

I've heard the optimum length for a 22 long rifle rimfire was 18 inches. I've never heard of any centerfire handgun or rifle cartridge being slowed down with a barrel over 16 or 18 inches long.

Joe

[August]

Anything longer than four inches is difficult to pack. Having said that, my pards and I have gravitated to 5 1/2 inch vaqueros over the years. Fewer misses in CASS -- it's as simple as that. But, I'll stick to my axiom -- you may as well carry a rifle as a handgun with a seven inch barrel. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[AZ-Stew]

It's interesting that most of these responses list barrels of either 4-5/8 (just over 4-1/2) and 5-1/2. This puts the average at about 5 inches (my personal favorite). But just try to find a factory 5 inch barrel these days. They're occasionally produced as short-run items, but for some reason, the standard factory offerings tend to be 4, 4-5/8, 5-1/2 and 6 inches. While these numbers certainly represent "traditional" offerings, I'd think the factories would see the oportunity and offer us the mid value (5 even). Or is the handgun fraternity so stuck on tradition that they won't sell? Hmmmm...

Regards,

Stew

[44man]

Very strange so many like the 5" when I never notice 2-1/2" more barrel. The longer sight radius and reduced muzzle blast makes the longer barrel my choice. In fact most of mine have 10" barrels. When hunting I use a shoulder rig or sling. I guess most guys have to pack a gun on the hip. For a backup it would be fine but for the primary hunting tool, what difference does it make where or how it is carried. I still find a very large revolver more convenient then a rifle.
Of course I am a man and think nothing of walking up and down hills all day with a 10-1/2 pound Hawkin rifle or a 6 pound revolver. And I am 69 years old!

[longhorn]

I think I understand the concept, I'm just wondering if a faster/quicker peak pressure load (Bullseye?) will begin to show lack of increased muzzle velocity (lousy phrasing!) in barrels short enough we can carry around and chrono. I think I know someone with a long '73 clone in 38 Special I might get ahold of......I sure need another little project.

[StarMetal]

longhorn,

I doubt it.

Joe

[7br]

Several years back, a buddy and I ran various .22 loads through a 10" Anschutz exemplar, a 14" exemplar, a cheap .22 rifle with a 18" barrel and a 22" barreled rifle. With every load, the 14" Anchutz had the highest velocity. Might have had more to do with the chamber though.

[Bret4207]

My BH 45 convertable is the 4 5/8" model. It was all I could find at the time. My partner has the 5 1/2" model. His hangs a bit better, but for field work- fencing, wood cutting, trapping, etc- the 4 5/8" is a little bit handier. In a platform the size of a BH I think it's mostly in the eye of the beholder. What ever floats yer boat.

[Whit Spurzon]

I really like my 4-5/8" BH. Easy to carry and I've managed to shoot a 3" five shot group with it from the sitting position, open sights at 50 yards on more than one occasion.

That being said, I also have Ruger Single Sixes in 4-5/8 & 5.5". The 5.5" is my favorite. Still easy to carry and I tend to shoot it a little better.

On rimfire velocity vs barrel length I did a little test of my own using three Marlin 39s

Marlin 39A- 24" Barrel
Marlin 39A Mountie- 20" Barrel
Marlin 39TDS- 16" Barrel

The Ammo

Fedral 550 Bulk Pack ammo, 36 grains HP bullet, copper "plated"
39A : Average velocity 1263 fps (Highest was 1283, lowest was 1237)
Mountie Average 1254 fps (hi 1297, low 1230)
39TDS Average 1251 fps (high 1292, low 1216)

Notes: claimed velocity on box says 1280. This ammo shoots well in a wide variety of my rimfires, including autoloaders. The accuracy is very good in all of my Marlins.

Aguilla SE Subsonic 38grains lead hollow point
39A average 984 (high 1000, low 937.2)
Mountie average 994 (high 1023, low 984)
TDS average 1007 fps (high 1024, low 993)

Notes: This ammo has proven to be accurate in a wide variety of my rimfires. Only Match ammo has surpassed it in guns that shoot it well. It does NOT cycle any of my autoloaders. On most days this ammo will produce the best groups. Today it was true in my 39A and Mountie. Interestingly the 16" Barreled 39TDS produced the highest Velocity with this ammo.

CCI CB Longs 29g RN lead
39A (it was hard to tell these even when off in this gun) 677 avg (681 high, 668 Low)
Mountie 675 avg (720 high, 636 low)
TDS 668 average (674 high, 652 low)

Notes: Only the TDS (1/2" @ 25 yards) and my Single Six shoot this what I would consider "well". The Mountie shoots it OK (~1" at 25 yards). Most of my rimfires do NOT shoot this well. It is very quiet in long barrels.

CCI Mini Mag 40g copper coated, solids
39A 1255 avg (1272 high, 1230 low)
Mountie 1225 avg (1243 High, 1191 low)
TDS 1221 avg (1244 high, 1202 low)

Notes: Of my three 39's the Mountie shoots this the best. It is a little less accurate than the Fedral Bulk at more than twice the cost so I rarely use it.

CCI Blazer, RN lead 40g (more than 20 years old, probably closer to thirty...)
39A 1230 avg (1242 high, 1214 low)
Mountie 1203 avg (1216 high, 1178 low)
TDS did not shot.
Notes: Shoots a little dirty. Mountie shoots these very well.

Other random notes:

-The Chrony Alpha Master
-Temperature was ~65* during the time I was shooting.
-Most were 10 shot strings though some were longer.
-Chronograph was 12 feet in front of the barrel

[Dale53]

Regarding barrel length for hunting....

Ohio hunting regulations require a minimum barrel length of 5.0". I don't know if a similar law applies elsewhere or not. Sure would be a bummer to buy a "short" revolver and get busted.

All of my deer have been taken with .44 mags (8 3/8" and 7 1/2 inch barrels) which I carried in a Bianchi cross chest rig. I have walked miles in this set up without problems or discomfort. Doesn't interfere with a back pack, either.

FWIW
Dale53

[44man]

Some guys carry a sidearm along with a rifle or shotgun "just in case they can get a close shot" instead of using the handgun for the primary hunting tool. (I tried that once and when the deer showed up, I had the rifle in my hand and shot the deer with it.) They want a small gun that is out of the way. Some states do not allow this and you have to carry only the gun you intend to hunt with. I can not believe that "Easy to pack" is more important then accuracy, long sight radius, higher velocity and reduced muzzle blast. The only thing I can figure is that we have a lot of 90# weaklings that a few more ounces of barrel is just too much to handle. I have watched a trend of using smaller and smaller calibers and shorter barrels for deer. Yet the same guys need a .300 magnum and a 10 power scope when rifle hunting. Deer must be easier to hit and kill with a handgun then they are with a rifle! I see the same thing with archery equipment where guys use super light arrows that will not penetrate a deer, tiny heads that make tiny holes, because they can't judge distance and think arrow speed makes up for everything. There is a lack of respect for the animals life that should be taken cleanly, without suffering.
Short barrels are just harder to hit with and I will always say 7-1/2" is the shortest to hunt with. I said HUNT WITH, not a backup gun for when the griz has you flat on your back ready to eat you.

[C1PNR]

I've got a BH in .45 Colt with a 7 1/2" barrel and a Uberti SAA clone in .44 WCF with a 4 5/8" barrel.

I'm looking forward to getting another SAA, but this time it'll be 5 1/2".:coffee:

[LAH]

I like the 4 5/8, 5 1/2, and 7 1/2. But to hunt..........7 1/2..........Creeker

[Char-Gar]

The man wants a sixgun for target and hunting. There is no question that the longer sight radius, the easier it is to shoot that handgun with accuracy.

I like 4 5/8 for pakin, 5.5" are also good. But when it comes to placing that bullet where you want for sure and for certain, the 7.5" get the nod. Longer than that, and the pistol gets rather cumbersome.

[44man]

Yes, two different concepts. Are you packing or hunting? The short barrel gets the nod when used for backup. It all depends on what you are doing. I would not cut the barrel of a .300 Weatherby to 18" because it is "easier to pack." I would not play Bob Munden and try to hunt with a 2" snubby either. He can hit 200 yd targets with a snubby, but how many of you can hit a deer in the breadbasket at 50 yd's with one?
I like the looks and feel of a 5" sixgun, but I want longer for hunting. If I was rifle hunting and wanted a sidearm, then a 5" would be nice.
I find any handgun of any length a lot easier to "pack" then any rifle ever made.
I don't understand the pack concept, my revolver is in my hand when hunting. No quick draw needed. I would not have a slung rifle when sneaking in for a shot either.

[MT Gianni]

I hunt where the deer and elk seasons run concurrent. Grouse are also open as are bear. I usually pack a 4 5/8 Ruger 45 or a 5.5" Redhawk 44. Ist chamber has a grouse load and the others have heavy.. Green nail polish on the primer for medium loads red for heavy. The rifle is the primary hunting arm the pistol secondary. A shorter barrell makes you aware of the need for an exact gap on both sides of the front sight but it is there whether the sight radius is 2 1/2" or 10". Practice with what you carry is the main rule for me to follow. Gianni.

[500bfrman]

As usual 44man is right on. I'm kinda odd but I like long barrels as well. I don't carry these things on me for ccw though. I prefer 10 in barrels if I can get it. If your hunting I don't see a reason to go with less than 71/2 if that's the biggest they offer.

[44man]

I think my love of the long barrels comes from years of IHMSA shooting.
I think there isn't a more beautiful gun then a 5" single action but I never bought one. If I had the money I would buy one but I still like longer barrels for hunting.