Bismuth?

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I'm looking at bismuth casting. It will have to be an alternative once lead becomes prohibitively expensive.

The other alternative will be pure tin for really light projectiles.

Anyway, has anyone tried casting bismuth? What are its flow properties? I've read that it tends to be a bit brittle..?

Thanks,

Josh

[Johnch]

You need at least 10% tin

As less and the bullet is brittle

We found this out years ago when they brought out the first Bismuth shot for reloading

It was cracking
As soon as they upped the tin content to 10% that problem went away


I have put a lot of it down range in the form of shot while hunting ducks
But I have never cast any boolits

John

[Harter66]

That is very true . A fellow duck hunter I knew said a state biologist showed him a flat with shot cups still partialy filled with crushed shot during the 1st few seasons. I cannot say about casting it but being as brittle as the shot still is the spin might just blow it up. Though I can't say for certain.

[sagacious]

Bismuth will surely always be much more expensive than lead. Zinc is a far better option-- and far less expensive option-- for casting lead-free bullets.

As Johnch said above, you'll need a Bi/Sn alloy. There are several standard Bi/Sn alloys commonly available for casting lead-free fishing weights and lures. Your bismuth supplier can likely sell you a ready made BiSn alloy best suited for your purpose. Good luck.

[lwknight]

If lead becomes too expensive to buy , just what do you think bismuth will cost?

[geargnasher]

Are Sn and Zn miscible? If so, would that make a less brittle alloy?

Gear

[azcruiser]

can't see the price of lead raising that much but would believe it becoming illegal to shoot at state and county ranges also indoor ranges. Out west large parts a becoming lead free hunting zones. Wath California because that the way the rest of the country goes 35 mill+ people

[sagacious]

Are Sn and Zn miscible? If so, would that make a less brittle alloy?

Gear
Yes, Zn and Sn are miscible. No problem with alloying. I alloyed some to test a long time ago, when I was working with Zn/Ag alloys for lost-wax casting. No benefit for my aplication. Pure zinc is not excessively brittle, like bismuth is, but adding Sn to Zn will certainly make for a harder Zn alloy.

[thehouseproduct]

I am also curious as to the ins and outs of this. Mostly for the potential of casting frangible. Would bismuth work for that purpose?

[sagacious]

I am also curious as to the ins and outs of this. Mostly for the potential of casting frangible. Would bismuth work for that purpose?
Well, bismuth will shatter when it's hit hard. You'd likely still want a BiSn alloy, as I can easily imagine a pure bismuth bullet cracking in half when crimped even moderately. Like starting out with anything else, some trial and error and R&D will be necessary. Good luck.

[John Boy]

just what do you think bismuth will cost?

Can your wallet afford $17 a pound? My last purchase 2 years ago was $14/lb

[Johnch]

I just looked for shot to load the other night

6.6 lb ( 3 kilo ) of shot .................... $154.99 at Precision Reloading (http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=PRE&Category_Code=BISMUTH_SHOT)

You could melt it down to make non toxic Boolits

John

[Josh Smith]

IF I'm understanding things right, bismuth is a by-product of tungsten refining.

I would therefore think that if lead were banned, tungsten (and, therefore, bismuth) production would go up, while the price went down.

Gasoline was originally a waste byproduct of oil refining which was poured out and burned...

Josh

[geargnasher]

Gasoline still IS a waste product of some processes not direcly related to refining.

Sagacious, thanks for the answer.

Gear

[MtGun44]

I agree that bismuth will almost guaranteed always cost a bunch more than
lead.

Bill

[Josh Smith]

I agree that bismuth will almost guaranteed always cost a bunch more than
lead.

Bill

Bill,

FIFY! (Fixed it for ya' - just something we do on InGunOwners.com , mostly to be smartbutts or change it to something we think it should say :twisted: )

Josh

[MtGun44]

Thanks - I went back this morning and fixed it myself.

Shows what happens when you stay up too late posting on the web.

Bill

[DIRT Farmer]

The main reason I am intersted in bismuth casting, in a tradational M/L it seams for now, the only game is the cast lead ball. As more F&W depts decide to eliminate small groups from hunting a possible alternative may be needed.

[MtGun44]

I'd look at pure tin, maybe it can be used with proper boolit design.

Bill

[Johnch]

The main reason I am intersted in bismuth casting, in a tradational M/L it seams for now, the only game is the cast lead ball. As more F&W depts decide to eliminate small groups from hunting a possible alternative may be needed.

Balistic Products has 50 cal non toxic RB's
Made with ITX shot I believe

Not cheap , but avaible

John

[DIRT Farmer]

I hope I never need bismuth or nontoxic R/Bs but glad to know some one is working on it. The price of shot sure has gone up since my last buy. I diden't hunt ducks much with my M/L shotgun because they diden't list bismuth last year.

[243winxb]

A must read on Bismuth> http://www.alchemycastings.com/lead-products/fusible.htm What cleaning fluid removes bismuth from the barrel?

[sagacious]

The standard mechanical methods of removing lead fouling from a barrel would remove bismuth fouling. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. I'd switch over to pure zinc if a non-lead alternative was required, and likely never even contemplate pouring bismuth bullets.

[Bulletlube]

I came into some bismuth and worked with it some. I found a 50-50 bismuth tin alloy would behave about like linotype any less tin and the bullets would shatter. I used a Lee .44-310 mold and the bullets came out weighting 240grs. I have not shot a lot of them but if I had to I could still shoot for a while if they ban lead completely.

[lwknight]

What is the melting point for 50/50 tin/bismuth?
I would think that its pretty low.