Good Filler?

[dk17hmr]

I have been using cotton batting for quilt making, which works but I dont like the way it litters my range because it doesnt burn up, this is out of my 1903 Springfield with 10gr of Unique and an Ideal 308403.

Is there something else that ya'll have found to work?

[Bullshop]

Packing popcorn
BIC/BS

[DOUBLEJK]

Toilet Paper werks O.K.:-D

[Buckshot]

................Dacron, ie: spun polyester. Normally consumed in firing.

................Buckshot

[Bass Ackward]

The best filler in the world is more powder. :grin:

[ben1025]

I'm with Buckshot on dacron. Since 1971 I must of shot up a bunch of piller worth.

[canon6]

I just went back to Dacron,thanks Buckshot,it works well in my 45-70 with unique Doug

[44man]

Dacron without a doubt. And it does not get consumed. I never find any burned, just little tufts of it and some blows back on me when the wind is in my face. Cotton is too dense and will pack against the boolit base increasing pressure. Care must be used with it by picking it apart and starting low with the loads.

[StarMetal]

And don't forget the original and one that the NRA used alot of and that's Kapok. I use both Kapok, Dacron, and wads cut from those styrofoam meat trays, but those I use in certain applications, not as was over the powder with an airspace...that's not good.

Joe

[Jack Stanley]

I like the idea of more powder too . I have run up against some powders that just won't do well in accuracy if I give it a case full ( Don't do safety much good either ) . When I have a powder that wants to group but low erratic pressure smokes the case . As long as the charge is part way into the shoulder , I'll back the carge off and add attrition milled corn cobs to where the gas check will be when the bullet is seated .
It took a marginal load in a .303 Brit and made a performer .

For light charges , I just don't use fillers . If the load won't group I change something about it untill it performs where I want .

Jack

[Jon K]

I prefer to use powder that doesn't need filler, but if I feel I need to, I like Cornstarch packing popcorn(cylindrical shape, cut it to length, roll it to size, and put it in the case). I prefer this over others I have tried, and PSB & Pufflon are too expensive.

Jon

:castmine:

[JohnH]

It's been said by others far more knowledgable than myself, so I quote loosely....The use of a filler is generally an attempt to fix an unbalanced load......
I've tried fillers in more than a few chamberings over the last 4 years and I always got to where I wanted to be by switching powders, typically to something slower. That's not an absolute, and I've found 12 grains of Blue Dot will usually make a good starting point for a plinking load, but I've also found that a case full of something thing like 860 or 872 will generally give as satisfactory results as I'm seeking with a pistol/shotgun powder. But not always.

Fast powders like Unique in small quantities can have as erractic ignition qualities as 50 BMG powders. The evidence is readily visable, vertically strung groups. So the answer in part is to keep moving to slower powders and upping the charge till the vertical stringing goes is reduced to a liveable level. A good low velocity load may not ever group better than 2", but one knows it's good because it does that everytime, all the time.

Try shifting to 2400, then 4198 and even reducing 4895. 4895 will ignite and perform with consistantly even when reduced to 30% of the case capacity. There's a lot of latitude there.

Powders are designed to operate in a given pressure window. Either side of that, the powder will behave erratically. Keeping the powder against the primer is not a guarantee of good ignition. Powder don't burn because of the initial ignition flame, but rather because of the pressure which sustains the burn. It is this which is the enemy we fight when making reduced velocity loads.

Hunt around for some older Lyman cast bullet data, they published lots of it using pistol powders, 10 grains of Unique is on the low side for any loading in a 30-06 case, likely the best performance will come up around 15 or 16 grains, and you'll likely find that such a load will shoot as well without a filler.

Which ever route you choose, a filler is just that, a filler, not a packing. Most users of Daycron strongly suggest that the "wad" be pushed into the case to touch the powder only, not to be packed against it.

Best of Luck in your endeavors.

[mag_01]

I like to use tumbling media--- works for me---mag---and there are a lot of good that can come from a filler.

[dk17hmr]

Well the problem with more powder is I have been advised here not to shoot hot loads, my 1903 Springfield is one of the low serial number rifles in the 300k's which some say should be shot with only cast/light loads.

Filler is my application is only a saftey precaution because this bullet is made to be pushed in with finger pressure in a fireformed case for a low velocity target load. I have only been loading these as I feel like shooting them so 20 or so a day not a large quanity, but with the bullet only in with finger pressure I wanted to make sure if the bullet came out (before firing) the powder wouldnt come out and make a mess, that is why I tried the cotton.

[Jon K]

Did you try Trail Boss or AA8700?

Both are low pressure, low speed, meant for older guns & cartridges and for CAS.
Fills the case and is no speed demon.

Jon

[44man]

I only use a filler in one case and that is my 45-70 revolver. a case full of slow powder will not fully burn and leaves the gun full of unburned powder. 4198 gives me pressure excursions with most brass falling out of the gun and some that stick tight. I just don't like it. I use 4759 and have tried working around filler but it always groups better with dacron. I carry the gun muzzle down on a sling and raise it to shoot deer, I want the powder in the rear of the case.
I have several more powders I am working with like Reloader 7 and 5744 but now need new brass. My cases have been loaded so many times I lost accuracy. I annealed a few to see if the boolits will stay in. With the recoil???

[JohnH]

Well the problem with more powder is I have been advised here not to shoot hot loads, my 1903 Springfield is one of the low serial number rifles in the 300k's which some say should be shot with only cast/light loads.

More powder does not always equal more pressure. I would wager that it takes Unique more pressure to drive a 170 grain bullet at 1600 fps than 4895 or a powder like 8700 would make to do the equivelent job.

It is "wrong headed" to thik of fast in terms of burning speed. Think rather in terms of how quickly a charge of powder in a given volumn reaches a "peak" pressure.

In example, a 20 grain charge of Unique in a 30-06 would be near if not exceeding 50,00psi, while it takes between 45 and 50 grains of 4895 to reach an equal pressure.

It is pressure that we work with in firearms. I'm also willing to bet that a 15 grain charge of Unique under a 170 grain bullet is making something on the order of 25,000-30,000 psi. That ain't no mild load by any standards.

Call or email the ballisticians at Speer or Accurate Arms or Hodgdon and ask what kind of loads they suggest. The answers will surprise you. I'll bet none use pistol powders.

Also get a copy of Alliants and the IMR reloading manual. They list charges and pressures for all their powders.

[Buckshot]

..............After the comment about light loads with Unique or other fast type pistol/shotgun powders I was going to post exactly what JohnH posted. Light doesn't mean a low weight. Those fast powders have a tremendous amount of energy added to a charge with each grain weight addition.

Re: Your low number 1903. Good idea to get it's headspace verified. The coned breech of the Springfield, while aiding in chambering rounds also leaves more unsupported case exposed then in a Mauser type breeching, and therein lies the problem.

Not all low numbered actions were improperly heat treated. Those that were are incredibly strong in resisting compression but are brittle and have no shock resistance. Just like a file. Should a casehead fail and allow high pressure gas to enter the action ring it can grenade. Literally it will blow to pieces, with those pieces propelled by that high pressure gas.

.............Buckshot

[JBMauser]

I do not find that a filler is needed to correct an unballanced load. On the contrary, I find that a tuft of kapok to locate the powder in a proper collumn over the primer shrinks the group of a good load. Powder is designed to be lit up in a stacked collumn not flashed over as it lays the length of a horrizontal cartridge. It is obvious that more powder creates a charge collumn by it's volume but a bit of filler can do the same thing. Someone suggested trailboss. Ugh..I tried it in .303 no filler, on some advice posted somewhere on a board. A .22 CB cap would do better.
the pill barely made it to the 100m target! I will not try that again. I will stick with unique, 2400 and a few other reliable powders. Trailboss can stay a cowboy load. A question to the original poster, are you filling the cartridge tight with filler? I only found kapok flying around when I put to much in the case. I only load a large Pea size and tamp it down, I transport the ammo vertically I am only using the filler to locate the powder. When fired the primer will launch the powder collumn and kapok forward and compress the kapok to the base of the bullet about the thickness of a business card. JB

[dk17hmr]

I am probably putting to much in about a 1"x1" square that I tamp down onto the powder charge, it doesnt fill the case, only about 1/2 way.

[StarMetal]

dk

You don't ever want to tamp anything down overtop powder and leave an airspace between it and the bullet. What happens is the wad becomes the bullet and the original bullet becomes an obstruction. You can ended up with a bunch of castastrophies, such as a ring chamber, case rupture, etc. Filler, such as Dacron, should be spread out between the top of the powder and the base of the bullet. You'll notice that most fiberous filler, such as Dacron and Kapok, are very light. Cotton is much more dense and heavier then those two I mentioned. Some other things used as fiberous fillers are the fibers from the silkweed pods, wasp or hornet nest paper, and some fellows even use lint from the dryer. Whatever you use make sure it fills the airspace and don't tamp or pack it.

Joe

[Old Ironsights]

'course there are always the old BP standbys of Farina or Cornmeal....

[StarMetal]

The possible problems with Cornmeal and such, is that they can collect moisture, then dry solid inside the case, and reek havoc with pressures.

I wouldn't use corn media either because it's abrassive and will erode your barrel throat away if you shoot alot of it.

Joe

[45 2.1]

Corn meal, corn cobb etc can pull moisture from the powder and change the burn rate drastically. Watch out because it does happen.