Ladle casting boolits

[45r]

Tried out a RCBS ladle to see how ladle casting works and the fillout was very good but some of the boolits bases were a little bit rounded.This was the first time I've tried a ladle so I'm probably not doing it as good as I should.What are the best ways to ladle cast,I had fun giving it a try and think I'd like to do more ladle casting even though my RCBS BP pot works well.If I can get the bases sharp ladle casting I'll have both ways to work with.The ones with sharp bases look perfect.

[mooman76]

Leave a bigger sprue puddle. It gives the lead more room for shinkage and helps with base fill out.

[damron g]

I feel i get better bases and "cleaner" bullets ladle casting most of the time.Sometimes just pouring the lead from the ladle(with about a 1/4"-1/2" gap) onto the sprue plate works other times contacting the ladle level in the hole and tipping upright works well. Altering how fast you tip it is all the difference and depends on the mold. As moorman76 said,leave as big a puddle as possible.

george

[dromia]

You could also try slackening off the sprue plate a tad.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

There are a couple of articles in the NRA handloading book dealing with making dipper spout diameters larger and enlarging sprue holes. One or both practices have an effect on bullet fillout. Another investigation dealt with having the dipper connected to the sprue hole when the mold and dipper are rotated into the vertical position versus pouring from the dipper with the snout above the sprue hole. Connected yielded well filled out bullets where as unconnected produced slightly rounded corners and a slightly lesser weight. The amazing thing is that in range testing, it was found that both castings shot the same. The controversy is expanded somewhat by the observation that in using bottom pour pots...the mold is held with a gap between the sprue hole and the spout, but the bullet fillout is complete with no rounded anything. There was no clear conclusion to the discussion. I ladle cast....connected and bottom pour... disconnected and get well filled out bullets both ways. I never altered my dippers or sprue hole sizes. It looks like a subject worth a lot more investigation if you have theories. LLS

[44man]

Break the top inner edges of the blocks with a stroke of a fine file for an air vent. The plate tightness has no effect and what you want to do is adjust it so it is flat on the blocks with no light space, that could be tighter or looser.
Keep the ladle tight to the plate as you rotate to vertical and then HOLD THE LADLE TO THE MOLD UNTIL THE BOOLIT GETS ALL THE LEAD IT NEEDS FROM THE LADLE, NOT THE SPRUE!
The sprue sets up faster then the boolit and can starve the mold of needed lead.
The divot formed in the center of the sprue should be very small caused by sprue shrinkage only, not by a boolit trying to take lead from it.
I can make perfect boolits if I tip the ladle away very quick, leaving no more then a dot of lead in the hole because the size of the sprue has nothing at all to do with boolit quality. Time on the plate with the ladle until the boolit is filled is what works.
Those that pour higher and keep molten lead going into the sprue while lead pours all over the pot and bench are doing the same thing of keeping the sprue molten until the boolit, as it shrinks, takes what it needs.

[damron g]

"Keep the ladle tight to the plate as you rotate to vertical and then HOLD THE LADLE TO THE MOLD UNTIL THE BOOLIT GETS ALL THE LEAD IT NEEDS FROM THE LADLE, NOT THE SPRUE! "

i agree that this works most of the time,but i have molds that refuse to ladle good bullets this way.I too got lighter bullets sometimes with unconnected ladle and the bases are occasionally slightly round at the edges,but shot as good as any other bullet as the slight rounding was uniform.All of this based on 30(PB and GC) and 22 rifles bullets that i shoot most.

Main point is if it isn't working change your style.


George

[BABore]

Ladle casting is heavy on technique. Not because it's hard to do right, but because every mold will take the lead a bit differently. Keith, you've seen how I do it, but what you didn't see is more than one mold.

On some molds you can tip it 90 degrees, put the nipple tight to the sprue hole, rotate it upright, and stand on it til your blue in the face. A perfect boolit every time.

Then there's the mold that you do this above technique on and it wil fin the nose slightly. In this case I pour the same as above, but lift the ladle slightly after a timed count. How long? Again, it varies on the mold. Could be a 1/4 second after it's turned upright, could be 1/2 second.

There are molds that refuse to pour consistently with a tight nipple contact pressure pour. Some like a stream right down through the center of the sprue hole. Others like it to one side. Sometimes the distance you stand off the hole is a variable here. Doing this is sometimes difficult with a ladle. The ladle pour hole should be around 0.160 in diameter. It needs to be to get a high enough flow rate for bigger boolits. This kind of works against you iff'in your trying to shoot the hole. You will constantly fight flooding the hole instead of pouring straight through it. Too fine of a flow like this on big boolits and you will get SBS (shrunken boolit syndrome) or those frosty looking, underfilled spots in certain areas. If I have to pour like this I adjust my technique on each cavity. If I happen to shoot the hole without flooding it, I continue the pour til I get an adequate sprue. On the next cavity, if I happen to flood it, I continue pouring and pour more sprue on that one. It usually works out and all cavities have nice boolits.

Finally there's the mold that you can do no wrong with. You can stand back and thow lead at it and it make good boolits. You could just dip the whole works in the pot and boolits are good. For these guys I use my 1 lb Rowell ladle. I filed a shallow "V" in my pour spout trough to give it a finer pour stream. I try to shoot the hole, but it doesn't matter if you flood it either. Typically these molds are short pistol boolits with less complicated groove/band designs and ones with shallow groove depths. You can pour these molds as fast as a BP guy can.

Others have mentioned that stubborn molds can sometimes benefit by lightly chamfering the tops of the blocks at the parting line. I do this as a matter of habit on the molds I sell. Sometimes they can use just a bit more chamfer, but it's easy to get carried away. Too much can result in a finned base. Sprue plate tightness was also mentioned. Being too tight with an unvented top can definetly cause rounded bases. Too loose and you can fin the base and leave a lumpy sprue cut.

One thing not mentioned is running the blocks and sprue plate hot enough. I dip the corner of the blocks and the end of the sprue plate in the pot for 30 seconds or so to get it nice and hot. After carefully wiping it down I start casting. Typically the mold is too hot and it takes the sprue 10 or more seconds to go from liquid to solid. That's fine. Better to start a bit hot than fight a cold mold. I fan cool the mold and sprue plate to gradually cool it down to proper temperture. When I see the sprue take about 3 seconds to solidify, I'm just about perfect. This usually takes about 2-3 cycles. When things are running right, the entire sprue on a 4C block set should be about 3/32 to 1/8 inch thick. If it's building up thicker than this, the sprue plate is too cold. A cold plate will help you produce rounded bases if the mold is fussy at all. I'm not a big fan of cooling the sprue on a wet rag because of this. Hold it a bit too long and you cool the plate down too much for the next pour. Waiting too long to cut the sprue can also do this. I've found that those "Lyman Casting Manual" perfect cut sprues to be a guarantee for running boolits with a high weight variance. A little sprue tear out is much preferred.

The entire technique thing with ladle casting is to learn them all. When you get a new mold you have to be able to identify which one works best for it. Sometimes it may be on a cavity by cavity basis. You need to see what's happening and adjust your technique on the fly.

[montana_charlie]

This is my take on sprue plates and sprues when dipper casting.

We all know there is a spring washer under the head of the sprue plate pivot screw. Think about why it's there.

It isn't a lock washer. There is a setscrew in the side of the mould to lock the pivot screw.
If you tighten the plate down so it's 'welded' to the blocks, the 'spring' is gone.
The only logical reason for a spring under the screwhead is to hold the plate firm against the blocks, but allow it to lift off (against the spring tension) to vent air.
So, a logical adjustment is one where the spring is about half compressed. That's snug enough to keep the plate from flopping, but also allows the plate to lift up when needed.

Naturally, it can't lift up if you are leaning on the dipper and sprue plate while the air is trying to escape.
And, it doesn't take much pressure between the spout and the plate to 'seal' the connection as you rotate the mould.

So, mate the dipper and plate together and turn the mould upright while supporting the weight of the dipper just enough to maintain the seal, but still let hot air force it's way out.



When it comes to the sprue, itself, leave the amount of sprue that you like, but don't take all day to get the dipper out of the hole. Then, note how long it takes to set up.
If it's less than five seconds, the cavity will likley be 'starved' in one area or another.
I don't mean to say that alloy is sucked down from the sprue during that five seconds.

I'm saying that length of time indicates the mould and alloy are at a good temperature to assure fillout...which had already occurred by the time you broke the seal between the dipper and the plate.

CM

[44man]

Why am I different? I have a huge pile of home made molds, Lee, Hoch, Rapine, Lyman, RCBS and NEI. Not a single mold needs anything different for a perfect boolit. Blindfold me so I grab any mold and I will do the same thing casting with it and get perfect boolits.
Here is one mold drawer and all cast the same. :holysheep

[BABore]

Why am I different? I have a huge pile of home made molds, Lee, Hoch, Rapine, Lyman, RCBS and NEI. Not a single mold needs anything different for a perfect boolit. Blindfold me so I grab any mold and I will do the same thing casting with it and get perfect boolits.
Here is one mold drawer and all cast the same. :holysheep

The same reason you shoot them rock hard boolits. Your an old fart and set in your ways.[smilie=b::kidding:

How many of those molds are from 22 to 35 caliber? Any long, skinny, loverin styles? How many are 4+ cavity? Big boolits, like the ones you use, are alot more forgiving. One or two cavity molds also are more forgiving because they vent easier.

I've made/gathered well over 150 molds in the last 5 years. Most I have built. Each week I test cast some new design or other. Different designs, mold sizes. etc., can take lead a little differently. Not all of them, but enough. You just need to get out more I guess.:D