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Colorado4wheel
07-27-2010, 06:23 PM
I shoot at least 2K 9mm a month. I am casting my own Lyman 147 gr bullets. The process is newer to me but I am moving along OK now despite some real issues at the start. My slow down points are:

1) Waiting for the sprue to solidify. You simply can not rush this. I tried the "speed casting tricks" from this site and they just don't work for me. It's best for the mold and the sprue to cool together at a normal pace it seems.
2) Reheating the lead in the pot. It must take at least 20 mins to get the 20 lb pot that has 1 inch or so of lead left in it back up to 750f. Seems like FOREVER, and then I have to get my mold back up to temp. PITA. I use a hot plate so it takes very little to get it going again the second time after the initial pot is done but waiting 20 mins seems like forever.

I am thinking of several things.

1) Running two pots. Second directly over the first. It would preheat lead and drain through the spot into the primary pot. I even have a 220 line I can dedicate for one pot so it would not be on the same circuit.
2) Running two molds. I do this already with a 2 banger Lee mold and my 4 banger Lyman mold every once in a while. I think if I have enough lead (hence the two pots) and use a heater for my molds I can get them up to temp together and resonably quickly.

Lastly, Is it normal for it to take 20 mins to get the pot up to temp the second time? Even if I add just a couple sticks of lead it takes a while to get up to temp. I have a Lee 20lb Pot and don't know if maybe I should just get a better Lyman or RCBS with more heat output?

NuJudge
07-27-2010, 06:44 PM
I find the Lee 20 pound pot underpowered. I melt in a Lee 10 pound and transfer the Lead to the 20 pound, and this speeds things up a lot. The Lee 10 pound uses much more power per pound than the Lee 20 pound.

Pre heating small ingots on top of the pot can speed things up a lot, as can using a propane torch to melt ingots in the top from the top also.

In cold weather, it will take a lot more than 20 minutes for the Lee 20 pound to reach operating temperature.

Years ago I had a Lyman 20 pound, and I don't remember as long a delays, but it cost a lot more than the Lee, and was not as durable.

Springfield
07-27-2010, 06:46 PM
The LEE, Lyman and RCBS pots are all around 500-600 watts, so that is no help. The RCBS does have a slightly higher capacity, an actual 22 lbs while the LEE really only holds a usable 16-17. I used to run 2 pots and ladle from one to another to alleviate just your problem. Worked OK but my final answer was to get a Magma 1500 watt 40 lb pot. Or you could be crazy like me and just for fun put a second element into one of my LEE pots. 1500 watts, melts like crazy, but hard to hold a constant temp, like all LEE'S.

FISH4BUGS
07-27-2010, 06:53 PM
I can't talk about two pots or running two moulds. Many do, but that one is not yet in my experience factor.
Having said that, I shoot machine guns using cast lead bullets. I only use jacketed or plated through the supressor. If I have enough time, I can shoot 2k 9mm in an afternoon. I cast and look for production, production and production.
First, I use 4, 6, 8 and 10 cavity moulds. I have used almost exclusively Hensley & Gibbs moulds collected over the 20 years or so I have been casting. Once you get those beasts heated up you can cast for hours with high output. I use a few Lymans and a Lee 6 cavity group buy 358156 plain base (nice mould by the way). My ingots are alloyed at 5lbs ww and 1lb linotype. Supposedly that is the Lyman #2 formula.
I find that if I stack my ingots on top of the Lee 20lb pot in one layer (they are about 1.5 lbs each and look like a flattened cigar, i.e. half round ingots and about 8" long) and let them preheat that way, I can add lead on the fly and it takes only a minute to melt. During that melt time I pick up my bullets and clear up the sprues and get ready for the next run. Then stir the pot and it is melted and you are ready to fly.
I NEVER let my pot get less than half empty without adding more lead. Once the ingots are preheated they melt quickly.
The sprue thing is another story. I DO use the speed casting method almost all the time and it works. If the sprues are taking too long to solidify, then you are running too hot. Try to lower the pot temp, use the wet towel more (try dumping the bullets and sprue junk, closing the mould, then setting the SPRUE PLATE on the towel to cool it) or simply slow down.
It is a balancing act.....fun, ain't it?

dragonrider
07-27-2010, 07:00 PM
You can speed up the reheating part by using two pots as pictured below.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/PaulGauthier/Lee%20fix/IMG_0107.jpg

Colorado4wheel
07-27-2010, 07:10 PM
Speed casting doessn't work for me because my mold likes the temp at 750F not a lower temp. I get bad fill out if I don't cast at the higher temp. I also don't like dumping even preheated ingots because that drops the temp and I can see a difference in the bullets. For me, success has been in keeping the temp as stable as possible. Speed casting ruins that and I am always chasing my tail with varying lead temps and mold temps. Just a PITA. Best thing I did is slow that part down and do it the normal way.

Lyman and RCBS have 100 watts more power then the Lee. I really like the look of that stacked Lee setup. Small pot in the back, big in the front. Seems like a good solution.

markinalpine
07-27-2010, 07:11 PM
I wrote this last year: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=741699&postcount=5
Helps keep the heat loss down AND reduces temperature swings.
Mark :coffeecom

Mk42gunner
07-27-2010, 07:12 PM
While I don't shoot as much as you do, here are a few things that can speed up the casting process.

1. Refill your casting pot sooner. I use angle iron for my ingot molds. The ingots are approximately 10 inches long, this allows them to rest across the top of the Lee pot to preheat. When the lead level goes down about an inch and a half, the next ingot goes in at an angle. This allows it to melt and more or less self feed. The next ingot gets laid on top of the pot to preheat, utilizing the free heat that would be wasted.

2. Once the sprue solidifies, then I invert the mold and cool the sprue for a few seconds (the sprue is still hot). Refill the mold and do it again. While I haven't gotten close to the production that BruceB does, it is fast enough for me.

3. If you are using two and four cavity molds, a six cavity Lee will greatly increase your production. I loose more time changing molds than it is worth.


Robert

Colorado4wheel
07-27-2010, 07:21 PM
I have zero luck with Lee six cavity molds. I have a broken one on my bench right now. I am done with lee 6 cavity molds. I really need to know if running two iron 4 cavity is going to be a PITA.

Colorado4wheel
07-27-2010, 07:24 PM
I wrote this last year: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=741699&postcount=5
Helps keep the heat loss down AND reduces temperature swings.
Mark :coffeecom

I have been using a foil lid while it reheats. That helped a lot. I have not tried it while casting. I will need to find a coffee can lid. Thanks.

D Crockett
07-27-2010, 07:41 PM
well I don't mess with a 10 lb pot or a 20 lb pot when I am looking to make a lot of bullets I use a Magma 40 lb pot I can add a 5 lb ingot and not quit for one second with no noticeable temp drop I use 2 of these pot one for soft lead work and one or ww or harder one in on a stand I made and the other is on a master caster stand both work great for what I do D Crockett

Springfield
07-27-2010, 07:50 PM
Colorado: so what broke on your mould? I have about 20 LEE 6 cav's that I use all the time so maybe I have a solution for what is broke.

Colorado4wheel
07-27-2010, 08:01 PM
Colorado: so what broke on your mould? I have about 20 LEE 6 cav's that I use all the time so maybe I have a solution for what is broke.

Pins were not in alignment. I thought I had it fixed. I cast about 150 bullets fine, then one pin jammed and didn't open, the other bullets fell in the V shape created by the mold opening on one end and not the other. The mold no longer opens and closes properly any longer. It's my third Lee 6 cavity. They all had issues of one kind or the other. I'm done trying. The 2 cavity Lee I have works fine.

Cloudpeak
07-27-2010, 08:22 PM
I not only use my hotplate to pre-heat molds, I use it to pre-melt my alloy and then transfer the molten alloy to my Lee 20 lb. bottom pour. No "spout freeze" and no waiting for the melt in the bottom pour to get up to temp.

casterofboolits
07-27-2010, 08:37 PM
I use two RCBS 10 kilo pots, I cast from one while the other gets up to heat. Of course the RCBS pots are expensive these day, almost $400.00 each unless you can pick up a used one. I just lucked into a third one for free from the estate of a nieghbors Uncle. You could probably do the same with two of the 20 pound Lee pots for a lot less.

Is your four banger a Lyman 356637 for the 09-147-FPBB? If so, I would buy another (I have two of these molds as I always buy my Lyman four cavity molds in pairs) and run the two Lymans and the two cavity RCBS as the third mold. This will ensure that the first mold's sprue has solidified when you come back to it. Also Lyman molds like to run hot and need very little cooling, especially in the 9's and 38's. I once cast 5,000 40-175-TCBB with two Lyman four cavity molds in eight hours. :bigsmyl2: I would cool the molds by sitting them on a small squirrel cage blower attached to the side of my casting bench. It's one of my spare blowers for my Magma Master Casters. But, if you run three molds, the Lyman molds very seldom need cooling. [smilie=w:[smilie=w:

I really hope you've got a Star lube/sizer cause anything else will wear you out quick. :violin:

Good luck and enjoy! [smilie=s:

Fred AKA Old Fart

Colorado4wheel
07-27-2010, 09:00 PM
See thats what I found. I needed to run them hot. I am using the 147gr mold. I am just going to run two at once and get another 20lb pot. I do have a Star. Thats the easy part. I am making a roller handle for it this week. I know I could buy one but why do that when I can just make one.

MtGun44
07-28-2010, 01:16 AM
Use Bull Plate lube and you can cut the sprues nearly molten without any problems. This
is amazing because it speed things up and you get good boolits without problems which
would not happen without it.

I have no idea how you broke a Lee 6 cav but I have a bunch that have worked for years
for me and many thousands of boolits. I think you are doing something wrong to break
them. The mold aluminum alloy is soft and they NEED to have Bull Plate Lube
used on them, and no pounding, but properly lubed they are great for me.

Bill

RogerWatsonfromIdaho
07-28-2010, 07:26 AM
I use the RCBS pro-melt furnace. It is 800 watts.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=209097

I add small ingots and keep the lead level near full.
I use the Lee ingot mould which has two sizes of ingots. I fill the small ingot size full, but only fill the large ingot size half full. This keeps the ingot sizes small and helps prevent spout freeze when I have the thermostat set at 700 degrees F. At higher settings I do not get spout freeze.

Using this method, I can keep casting until I am tired. I do not have to stop to refill the furnace and let my bullet moulds cool off.

Almost always I cast alternating between two moulds. Thus one mould has been filled and is cooling, while I am removing the bullets from the other mould and refilling it. This seems like doubling production compared to using one mould.

Running two iron 4 cavity moulds works well with this method. When using an 8 or 10 cavity mould, sometimes it is difficult to keep the furnace full with this method.

Calamity Jake
07-28-2010, 08:32 AM
I really need to know if running two iron 4 cavity is going to be a PITA.

It's the only way I cast, 2 @a time, been do'en it for 30 years.

1 to 6 cav. makes no difference!!!

Colorado4wheel
07-28-2010, 08:38 AM
Use Bull Plate lube and you can cut the sprues nearly molten without any problems. This
is amazing because it speed things up and you get good boolits without problems which
would not happen without it.

I have no idea how you broke a Lee 6 cav but I have a bunch that have worked for years
for me and many thousands of boolits. I think you are doing something wrong to break
them. The mold aluminum alloy is soft and they NEED to have Bull Plate Lube
used on them, and no pounding, but properly lubed they are great for me.

Bill

I already explained it. As it opened one side stayed shut. THe bullets fell into the V. Because it happened so fast the bullets lodged in the V as I continued to open the mold. THe mold not longer closes. EVERY 6 cavity mold I have gotten has had issues before you even try and cast with opening and closing. But it's not "Broken" in the sence it broke in half. It just is useless now. I also found Bull Plate lube to be not as advertised. I still got lead smearing in the cavity closest to the pivot. Honestly, a pencil is better then all these fancy things.

Colorado4wheel
07-28-2010, 08:41 AM
Thanks Roger and Jack. Thats exactly what I wanted to know.

MtGun44
07-28-2010, 09:57 AM
Hmm.

So every 6 cav Lee is junk and breaks and Bull Plate doesn't work.

Interesting viewpoint.

You may want think about why your results are so different than almost everyone
else's results with the same tools.

Best of luck with casting.

Bill

Fly-guy
07-28-2010, 09:58 AM
I cast when ever it is cool enough or when I'm out of boolits. I will run up to three molds after I get them heated up and will make as many boolits as I can.

One problem I've run into is that my Lyman mag 20 will freeze up on me occasionally and then I have to reheat the molds - it's agrivating to say the least. I had a Lyman 10 pounder for years and never had that problem. In my opinion, the 20 pounder wasn't the best choice when I replaced my pot!

I am thinking about replacing the 20 pound pot or maybe using two pots when I cast, any suggestions on which pot to buy?

Thanks

truckmsl
07-28-2010, 02:26 PM
Hmm.

So every 6 cav Lee is junk and breaks and Bull Plate doesn't work.

Interesting viewpoint.

You may want think about why your results are so different than almost everyone
else's results with the same tools.

Best of luck with casting.

Bill

I'm sorry, but I've got to second that comment. Six cavity Lees, Bull Plate lube, and speed casting works every time for me. I do use a second pot that starts out full and gets my sprues up to temp as well.

leadman
07-28-2010, 02:49 PM
I have used 2 pots, RCBS for the casting pot, Lee #20 to supplement the RCBS. I flux both pots so as I cast out of the RCBS I can use an old kitchen ladle to move lead from the Lee to the RCBS. I then add to the Lee.

Nobody mentioned the use of a fan to cool the sprues. I use a 12v fan from an old semi, has metal blades and is high quality , not like one from Checker or Auto Zone. Mike Venturino uses and old manicurist fan, also high speed.
It is faster to run 2 molds even with the fans as it does take longer than the sponge method of cooling the sprue plate.

Colorado4wheel
07-28-2010, 02:57 PM
Hmm.

So every 6 cav Lee is junk and breaks and Bull Plate doesn't work.

Interesting viewpoint.

You may want think about why your results are so different than almost everyone
else's results with the same tools.

Best of luck with casting.

Bill

Hey, thats not what I said at all.


EVERY 6 cavity mold I have gotten has had issues before you even try and cast with opening and closing.

Thats what I said. I said every Lee Mold I have gotten has had issues before I even cast with it. Brand spankin new out of the box. They all hung up a litttle bit to a lot. One was servicable with out working on the pins. Once hot it worked OK. It just cast really light bullets. It did that OK, but I didn't want 115 gr bullets, I wanted 124 gr bullets. The other two would not even open and close. New, out of the box. No way you can blame me for that.

Bullplate lube works OK. I don't like using it. Not going to apologize for that because it's not your concern. Even with the lube I could never open it as fast as you guys say. I get minor smearing. It's not a concern but it's not some miracle in a bottle. It does let you do it sooner but not as fast as some of the post seem to imply. Either way, for me, I get better bullets being patient, letting the sprue cool normally. Thats just been my experiance. Your welcome to come over and show me the error of my ways.

686
07-28-2010, 02:59 PM
get you a magma 90 lb. 220 pot and you will never look back. i feed it 6lb. ingots , keep it 1" from the top max to 3" from top. i never have to wait. i run 3 6cav molds at at time. i use 2 8" fans to cool the molds. once you get going it is as smooth as silk.

Colorado4wheel
07-28-2010, 03:04 PM
and speed casting works every time for me.

I get noticably less pretty bullets when I cool the sprue with a wet towel. The next casting the bullets just don't look the same. Maybe I am doing something wrong. Either way, I prefer to have bullets I am happy with then fight the process by artificially cooling the sprue plate with a wet towel.

Mk42gunner
07-28-2010, 05:42 PM
... Either way, I prefer to have bullets I am happy with ...l.

And that is the whole reason for casting our own, to have something we are happy with.


Robert

qajaq59
07-29-2010, 06:54 AM
One thing I noticed right away with the 20# pot was, don't use huge ingots. Make them smaller and add them more often. The temp comes back up much quicker that way.

truckmsl
07-29-2010, 03:04 PM
I get noticably less pretty bullets when I cool the sprue with a wet towel. The next casting the bullets just don't look the same. Maybe I am doing something wrong. Either way, I prefer to have bullets I am happy with then fight the process by artificially cooling the sprue plate with a wet towel.

Colorado,

Maybe temperature is the difference. I cast aluminum 6 bangers at 830F to 840F and lay the sprue plate on a large sponge sitting in a pan with water in it, for about three seconds, before releasing the boolits.

Mine all look the same, and sprues are cut nice and flat. I also water drop as I find that helps speed the process, and my auto loaders don't mind the harder boolit at all. Neither do my wheel guns ( fit is everything).

I can comfortably cast 650 180 grainers in an hour with this method with very little variation in weight. The second pot almost doubled my production. It's a Lyman 10 pounder that cost less than $30 new.

Colorado4wheel
07-29-2010, 09:29 PM
Maybe thats true. When the Lee ran for me they liked to run hot.

noylj
07-29-2010, 10:52 PM
I assume everyone does it, but it wasn't mentioned. I always leave my molds on the pot while it is heating up. Never used a hot plate or torch.
I prefer iron, but have gotten good results with Lee 2 and 6 cavity molds.

armexman
07-29-2010, 11:47 PM
I live in eastern Boldr Cnty; one of two things
1) I will pickup those molds from you and maybe get them to work.
2) If'n you are on the eastern side of the Front Range; I could help you make those molds work (not teach you, help you).
I like the 6-cavity molds because i cannot afford SAECO,LYMAN, RCBS OR NOE multi cavity molds;)
Deal?

blikseme300
07-30-2010, 12:01 AM
get you a magma 90 lb. 220 pot and you will never look back. i feed it 6lb. ingots , keep it 1" from the top max to 3" from top. i never have to wait. i run 3 6cav molds at at time. i use 2 8" fans to cool the molds. once you get going it is as smooth as silk.

This echos my experience with working towards a high volume casting setup.

You cannot cast volume well if you cannot stabilize the melt & mold temperature. Consistency is the key here. Do some math: you want to cast 1000 .45" 230grn. You get approx 30 boolits/pound with no sprue. If you are using a 6 cavity mold you have only 5 casts/pound. So if you use a 20lb pot you can do 100 casts without refilling. This translates to only 600 boolits. During all this casting the temperature may or may not stay constant, depending on your setup.

Changing your casting tempo for whatever reason changes the consistency of your boolits.

Bigger is better & the more Watts/pound is important. (My opinion, of course.) What I ended with is a large pot that is PID controlled. It holds 70lbs of melt and is a pleasure to use. It actually makes casting boring it is so consistent. See it here: http://bliksemseplek.com/boolits.html

An additional advantage of the large melter is that my alloy is quite consistent during casting as I blend in tin and pure Pb to the harvested WW's untill it is what I want. The word is: consistency.

Bliksem

cajun shooter
07-30-2010, 11:02 AM
Your alingment pins are sticking. Take a Dremel tool with a Cratex tip and do both the male and female parts of the pins. Try to go into the female as deep as possible. They sell pointed tips that work fine for this. Polish the male until they have a good shine. Your mold should just come apart with little or no force. After the mold is hot then apply the Bullplate. It does work and you should not cut off your nose to spite your face. Give it another chance. If you run more than one mold then it is a good idea to keep one of them on a hotplate. I use three 2 cavity RCBS molds for my 44-40. After one is dumped I refill it and set it on the plate and go to the next one. This plate is set about mid temp. It keeps the molds working but not over working them. All molds are used with Bullplate.

mdi
07-30-2010, 12:35 PM
Geeze, with that much shooting/boolits needed, and being in such a hurry, just get a Magma commercial casting machine. Or buy cast boolits in bulk, like 10K or 25K at a time...

http://www.magmaengineering.com/

fredj338
07-30-2010, 02:27 PM
Use at least a 20# pot, so adding alloy doesn't slow you down. Use two molds & alternate them. It allows one to cool a bit & helps things move along. Don't go much above 750deg w/ your pot. Add a fan blowing across the mold after you pour & while opening the mold.

Bob.
07-30-2010, 07:44 PM
As already mentioned I keep a few ingots on the hot plate to preheat.
It's easier for me to keep a constant temp if I dont let the pot get over 1/3 or so empty before adding another ingot. The temp drops on the Lee 20lb pot but not enough to stop casting.
I also use a 12 or 14 inch fan on a floor stand that cools the sprue plate pretty quick.
You can go faster with bigger and better equipment,
but it's gonna cost ya! [smilie=1:


Bob

Cowboy T
07-30-2010, 09:10 PM
How's 6,000 boolits production in about 5-6 hours or so? Would that qualify for "speed casting"?

Here's how I did it. I use a Lee 6-cavity mould (358-105-SWC) and a Lee Pro 4-20 pot. I have a wet sponge that I use to cool down the mould periodically, maybe every 10th cast. I run my mould at about 750 deg. F. After I was done, my lower and mid back muscles really felt it, and after a shower, I took a nap. But when I got done counting up my boolits (excluding out the very few rejects), I ended up with about 6,000 of 'em. A good day's production.

That doesn't work quite as well when casting the 200 grainers for .45 Colt. It just takes more time to fill those bigger cavities. I'm only getting about 400-450 an hour, with lead melting time being the bottleneck. So, what to do then?

My solution was to buy another Pro 4-20 pot. Cast from one pot, while the lead is melting in the other. Just alternate between them. I have nearly doubled my production and can easily hit 800 of the bigger boolits/hour, not counting rejects. I have very few rejects, BTW.

The Lee 6-cavity moulds are a big part of making those numbers. I'm sorry to hear Colorado4Wheel is having issues with his. You might want to take a look at some videos I made on mould prep and casting with them, because I get really good results with mine. They're on my Web site and on YouTube (channel is "sfliberal").

- Cowboy T

Fly-guy
07-31-2010, 09:29 AM
I'm still thinking about running a second pot because my Lyman 20 pounder has heating issues. My question is, how many watts do the Lyman 10 pounders have. I had good luck with my 10 pounder and if I do add a second pot, I'd like to have the same wattage as the old pot did. Unfortunately I got rid of my old pot some time back.

45-70 Chevroner
07-31-2010, 09:55 AM
I'm with casterofboolits. Although I use one 10# lee pot and 1 20# lee pot. I get one up to speed then fill the other to start heating up. I work out of the first one until there's about 1" of melt left in the pot, refill it and move over to the second pot. I also flux one time at the start of each pot. No slow down except to get up and streach my back muscles and leg muscles (whats left of them).

Colorado4wheel
07-31-2010, 09:12 PM
I live in eastern Boldr Cnty; one of two things
1) I will pickup those molds from you and maybe get them to work.
2) If'n you are on the eastern side of the Front Range; I could help you make those molds work (not teach you, help you).
I like the 6-cavity molds because i cannot afford SAECO,LYMAN, RCBS OR NOE multi cavity molds;)
Deal?

I'm in Pueblo. Boulder is a good distance. Thanks for the offer.

I just bought another Lyman 147 gr mold and also another Lee 20lb pot. I am going to rotate between the two. One is a 220 v so I will not even have them on the same circuit. I wouldn't mind getting that Lee mold to work but now I am kinda invested into the Lymans so I am going to send the Lee back. Thanks for the offer.

Colorado4wheel
07-31-2010, 09:24 PM
Use at least a 20# pot, so adding alloy doesn't slow you down. Use two molds & alternate them. It allows one to cool a bit & helps things move along. Don't go much above 750deg w/ your pot. Add a fan blowing across the mold after you pour & while opening the mold.

I have a fan, I also have two steel plates I use as a heat sink. I set the molds on the steel plates as the sprue cools. I have high hopes for running two molds at the same time. I can get the molds up to temp on the hotplate and after that with two pots I don't (or shouldn't) have to worry about running out of lead. I can normally keep the lead with in a 50F range. I don't know if I can use a PID controller on the Lee. But thats the worst part of the lee setup as you have to babysit the controller/temp.