Case sizing issue driving me nuts!!

[ihmsakiwi]

Please help!!
I am having an issue trying to get re-sized cases to fit both my mine and my nephews 7mm 08 rifles. i have full length sized and trimmed them to length. I was using a new set of Redding dies and borrowed a second set to check it was not the fault of the dies. At least three quarters of the cases will not fit or are too tight, the other quarter are fine. what the hell is going on? I reload four other bottleneck calibers and have never had this problem. Peter.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got a reminton 700 in 6mm that has a chamber so tight that it needs small base dies to funtion properly. Its like yours and about half the ammo loaded with standard dies will function.

[Bret4207]

Are you setting the dies correctly? Most cases like this the owner doesn't realize the dies should be set so that the shellholder and die mouth are in firm contact and so that the press handle "bumps" over center at the full stroke. This feels like a slight bump or thump as you bring the handle all the way over.

[.30/30 Guy]

It could be a case neck thickness problem. Try a different brand of brass.

[MtGun44]

Smoke a sized case with a candle and chamber it. See if the soot is
rubbed off just fwd of the base (diameter problem) or at the shoulder area
(shoulder setback problem).

If diam, you need small based dies die to a super tight chamber. If shoulder
length, you need to set to cam over tight like Bret said, and if this doesn't
work, maybe grind a touch off the bottom of the die so you can set the shoulder
farther back.

Bill

[S.R.Custom]

Ive got a reminton 700 in 6mm that has a chamber so tight that it needs small base dies to funtion properly.

What he said. If you're sticking the case along its diameter, normal sizing dies don't return a case to "factory" dimensions. If you have a tight chamber, you will need a die that does. That would be the "small base" die.

If the problem is length in the shoulder, and I've had a few dies like this over the years, you may have to chuck it up in a lathe and take a few thousandths of an inch off the bottom.

[BD]

If it turns out that you have minimum chamber and the Redding dies are not able to bump the shoulder back, call Redding. I ran into this about 15 years ago when I bought a set of Redding match dies which would not bump the shoulder back enough for my DCM. When I talked to Redding about it they told me to send them the sizing die and 5 fired cases from my rifle. For the cost of shipping I got back a custom size die matched to my chamber. The end result was excellent accuracy, and much better brass life as it's hardly being worked at all. It's worth a try.
BD

[leadman]

Since you are loading for 2 rifles rather than modify the die if it is too long, take alittle off a shell holder. That shellholder would then be specific to that rifle, but cheaper than dies.

[454PB]

I agree, shell holders are cheaper than dies.

[Heavy lead]

Are you mixing brass? Is the brass virgin, or fired in another rifle?

[HeavyMetal]

I'm thinking that one of your rifles is much "looser" than the other as far as chamber diamensions are concerned.

For maximum accruacy I would keep the brass seperate.

If your unwilling to do that then a die modified to base size only is the thing to get.

I had a problem with 30-30 brass range pick up , stuff given to me, what have you. Most all of it fired in someone else's gun!

Needless to say a bunch of it would not go into my Contender chamber!

What I did was take a full length sizing die (Lee) marked the vent line and stuck it in my Chop saw and cut the die off at the base of the shoulder!

Makes for a strange looking sizing die, the neck sticks out above the die, but now I can "full" length size the body of my 30-30 case's without messing with the neck or shoulder location of my brass.

I did not have to thin the shell holder or remove metal from the bottom of the die but I was prepared to do so if I needed to!

Now every piece of brass I get goes through this die first before it is allowed to enter the reloading sequence for the Contender.

Once "sized" it is cleaned a second time neck sized with the Lee Collet die and then trimmed to length.

As for purchasing a small base sizing die? If you were only loading for one rifle I'd say yes. Because your trying to load for two and one of them is much looser than the other I think your only buying a problem that will raise it's ugly head as a case seperation issue down the road a ways.

By modifiying an existing standard die you will only size enough of the case so it fits into the tight rfle.

I think figuring out which rifle is tight should be your first action and then figuring out how much you actually need to size the case down should be second.

I feel that Murphy's Law is gonna bite you here and you'll be forced to seperate the brass for each rifle because your going to have to "work" the brass to much to make this whole idea work right.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

This topic really points out the fact of, "manufacturing tolerance".

While all dies and chambers are made to a standard, that standard allows for a + or - factor in manufacturing.

It is said in one of the prior posts, that you should follow the manufactures advice for a full length die and set the die down to touch the shell holder at the top of the ram stroke, or in fact allow the ram to "pop" over center at the top of the stroke.

Been there and done that. Learned better many years ago!

If everything was exact in this imperfect world, that would be good advice.

However, considering the "tolerance" factor, there is a strong possibility that doing so will lead to very short brass life and less then ideal consistancy in your reloads.

Say for example you have a maximum tolerance chamber on your rifle and a minimum tolerance sizing die. If this is the case, you will grossly over work your brass and because you will push the maximum expanded case back to minimum size with each sizing, your brass life will suck!

In the case of two rifles with the same chambering, for best consistancy, groups, and brass life, it is very likely you will need a set of dedicated dies for each rifle.

At the very least, keep your brass separated.

AS per setting up a sizing die, it is better said to always set that die to the minimum sizing which will allow for easy and smooth chambering of a loaded cartridge.

If this requires a "small base" die or setting the die down to where the ram "pops" over center at the top of the stroke, so be it.

But always resize your brass to the very minimum amount which allows for good chambering, OF YOUR RELOADS IN YOUR FIREARM!.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[skeettx]

OK, try this,
1. size a case and do not seat a bullet,
2 Fit both guns?
3. Yes, are you seating 30 caliber bullets? Measure the bullets.
4. No, grind some off a shell holder and do steps #1 & 2
Let us know what you find out
Mike

[ihmsakiwi]

Thanks for all your replys.
I suspected I may needed to have separate dies and brass for each rifle. i will smoke one of the tighter cases and just see where the issue is. i will report back with findings. Peter.

[ihmsakiwi]

Smoke a sized case with a candle and chamber it. See if the soot is
rubbed off just fwd of the base (diameter problem) or at the shoulder area
(shoulder setback problem).

If diam, you need small based dies die to a super tight chamber. If shoulder
length, you need to set to cam over tight like Bret said, and if this doesn't
work, maybe grind a touch off the bottom of the die so you can set the shoulder
farther back.

Bill
Well one of the tight cases smoked showed clearly that the sholder is the problem area. most of the shoulder was wiped clean on chambering. I will play with the die setting, however, i have always had the die come down in contact with the shell holder. That being the case, short of grinding the die or shell holder is there anything else I can do?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

What brand of dies???????

I don't know the policy of the other manufactures, but RCBS will probably have you send in their dies, with a number of cases fired from YOUR rifle and they will correct the problem.

Remember though, If you need a small base die or one which sizes down more for one rifle, that die will very likely be a very poor fit for most other rifles, equaling extremely poor case life!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ihmsakiwi]

Well that fixed the problem.

I needed to screw the lock ring all the way to the top of the die threads and the die down into the press to the max depth to get the shoulder pushed back. I have never had a set of dies I haved needed to do that to.
Thank you all for your kind help. Peter

[azcruiser]

Just for the heck of it get or borrow a 7mm08 go/no-go - gauge check the chamber my neighbor just bought a new 700 limited edition 7mm08 and had to send it back to Remington chanber was to short

[runfiverun]

just separate the brass and neck size.
i have a 7x57 my daughter also has one so does the wife i also have 2- 7x57 ackleys.
separating and neck sizing sure saves a lot of issues.

[Char-Gar]

ihmsakiwi....... It helps to read the instructions that come with reloading dies. They tell you to install a shell holder in the ram and run it up to it's full height. Then screw the died down until it is hard against the top of the shell holder. You might need a fraction of turn more. There needs to be a little "snap" when the shell holder is pressed against the die. That snap is taking the slack out of the press linkage. That are how full length sizing dies are used. As you have learned, fired cases that are to be used in rifles in which they were not originally fired, need to be full length sized.

That is the way all dies are intended to be used. You have got by this far, with a partial re sized case most likely because they reloads were fired in the same rifle in which they were fire to start with.

The only exception to the above would be carbide pistol dies. Carbide is very hard, and having the shell holder hit it every time might shatter the carbide insert in time.

When all else fails...read the instructions!

[ihmsakiwi]

ihmsakiwi....... It helps to read the instructions that come with reloading dies. They tell you to install a shell holder in the ram and run it up to it's full height. Then screw the died down until it is hard against the top of the shell holder. You might need a fraction of turn more. There needs to be a little "snap" when the shell holder is pressed against the die. That snap is taking the slack out of the press linkage. That are how full length sizing dies are used. As you have learned, fired cases that are to be used in rifles in which they were not originally fired, need to be full length sized.

That is the way all dies are intended to be used. You have got by this far, with a partial re sized case most likely because they reloads were fired in the same rifle in which they were fire to start with.

The only exception to the above would be carbide pistol dies. Carbide is very hard, and having the shell holder hit it every time might shatter the carbide insert in time.

When all else fails...read the instructions!

True true true.

[BOOM BOOM]

oh, GREAT IDEA ON THE SHELL HOLDER! Wish I had thought of that.:Fire::Fire: