Fatter 30 and the Krag rifle ( a little ramble)

[Char-Gar]

When the Fatter 30 project was started, most folks were interested in a bullet for the .303 British. I also wanted a good Brit. bullet, but my real hope was for a utility bullet for the Krag rifle (30-40)

SMLEs, Mausers and the like hold only an slight interest for me. I have them, but there is no passion. My abiding passion is the Krag and the 03 Springfield. In military BDU or dressed up as an elegant sporter, these are the rifles of choice for me, and have been for almost 50 years. I am faithful to my first loves, haveing never strayed to far from their charms.

The Springfield is like a good Labrador that is mild mannered and wants to please. It will do everything it can to bring you joy. The Krag is more Terrier like in it's attitudes. It will bring you joy, but you have to work for it. With it's all over the map bore specs, and worn throats, it hold out the promise of accuracy, if you can break the code.

The best accuracy I have obtained in the Krag is a Loverin style bullet sized a whoping .314 in neck turned cases. That long .314 bullet will fill up allot of worn throat. 50 yard groups run .50 to .70 depending on me.

I have been very, busy and have had little time for myself..( Don't worry Buckshot, I will get the check in the mail for the .313 sizer any day now...promise). I did find the time to load some Fatter 30s over 16/2400 sized .312. I used the same load and some 311284s as a control.

Long story short, the Fatter 30's shot side by side, neck and neck with the longer Lyman bullets and that is no mean feat. Groups could not be distinguished betwee the two. Five shots ran from .75 to 1.00 (50 yards) depending on the nut behind the butt plate. I am well pleased.

Now to trim, necksize and neck turn the same cases, size the bullets .314 and take a run at those Loverin (311467 & 311407 Mod.) groups. I have my Krag untility bullet, not let's see how it will stack up against the best of the best..maybe I have a target bullet as well... We will see.. stay tuned!

[Harry O]

I had a qestion about sizing for my sproterized 30-40 Krag a while back. The consensus was to use the largest sized bullet that would chamber easily. It was suggested that the groove size had little to do with it. It looks to me that the consensus was right.

I filled in the last few gaps that I had in my sizers and then did an experiment. I took the same bullet and sized it from 0.309" to 0.314" in 0.001" increments. 0.314" is the largest sizer I could get (without a special order) and it was very close to "as-cast".

The gun was more accurate the larger the bullet was sized. I decided to stay with 0.314" with a 311413 and 13.0gr of Red Dot. This is a moderate, quick-to-load (I use a scoop) and accurate load for plinking. I also have a 30-40 Ruger No. 3 and the largest I can get in it is 0.313". I have a bunch of them sized up, but have not gotten to try them in it, yet.

I had a 311466 Loverin type bullet, but never got good accuracy from it. I think it was too short and light. Too far from the rifling. I did not try it at 0.314", though. More things to try. A 311407 or 311467 would probably worked better. I have had very good luck with a Lee 303B in the 30-40 Krag, too. That was supposed to be for the British cartridge, but the bore riding nose was too small for that. The size is perfect for the Krag, though. Interestingly, the Lee works best in the Krag and the 311413 works best in the Ruger.

[felix]

Harry, as you begin to up the velocity (more pressure) start with your current pick for size. If accuracy begins to wane as you go up, then drop the diameter in correspondence to reclaim some accuracy. Always remember that all boolits obturate, and if too much, the boolit might change shape just enough to cause the wilder grouping. Where it changes is not important at this stage, just the fact that a size change will effect the ignition characteristics. Hopefully for the better. ... felix

[Buckshot]

...............Krags can be a mess and really and truely I don't even think when new out of the crate they'd do well with cast without some work. I read where Harry Pope went to Springfield to help build Palma Rifles for the U.S. Team and he said he was astounded at the barrel dimensions he'd seen.

A couple years ago I was fooling around with my Krag in order to see if any of the moulds I had on hand would allow feeding from the magazine and still engrave. Accuracy was the prize as always. This was aimed at the stake shoot held during the Nevada Cast Lead Boolit Shoot.

I tried the 311284 which was designed FOR the Krag, and it wouldn't engrave and lube-sized essencially 'as cast' at .312" it wouldn't shoot. No better with the 314299 and it did have to be sized to .312" to chamber. The Lee C312-185 nor the shorter but fatter nosed C312-155-2R worked either. Neither engraved.

What DID work was the Lyman 311407 basicly lubed and fired 'as cast' at .312". Best of all it would feed from the mag.

...............Buckshot

[Char-Gar]

Buckshot et al....

I found a two bullets to give decent accuracy in the Krag. They are 311334 and 311284. The bullets were seated to allow them to function through the action.

Two more gave outstanding accuracy. They are 311291 and 311467. 311291 was seated with the case mouth a hair above the top lube groove and 311467 was lubed in the bottom four grooves and seated with the case mouth on the little band just above the top lubed groove. They fed through the magazine like this.

Along came 311407 Mod and it is the best so far when sized .314. My as cast size on all of the rest maxed out at .312 except 311291, but when sized .314 will not chamber. Anyway... I lube the bottom three grooves on 311407 Mod and seat with the case mouth on the little band just above the top lubed groove. OAL is about the same as with .311467. This bullet hold the record for my "personal best" in both of my Krags.

Now I have the Fatter 30. With it's long tapered nose (.304 to .309) it will engrave the rifling, and is big enough on the body to size it to "whatever". It has a decent meplat and feeds through the Krag magazine slicker than snot on a glass doorknob. It looks to be giving about 2 MOA at this point. What I want is 1.5 MOA at about 1.7K fps... If I can get there, I will be as happy as a baby playing under a blanket.

[Char-Gar]

Felix... I found you post to Harry, most interesting as it helped some of my thinking jell on running cast bullets at high velocity.

I already experienced that much above 1.7 - 1.8K fps, it took a harder alloy and a slower powder to keep accuracy levels up. I reasoned that the harder alloy resisted the "accordian effect" better and the slower powder shoved the bullet down the barrel as opposted to spanking it down the barrel also contributing to maintaining integrity of the bullet shape.

I can also see how reducing the bullet diameter at higher speeds will also help maintain bullet integrity. I had not thought about that.

Case in point.. My best 30 cal hi-vel bullet so far is an old 311467U that I picked up in the mid's 70's. When cast of Linotype it is .309 with the top two bands being .304 and .306. Because of these two bands, it has to be seated with several bands down in the boiler room.

I am now sizing those top two bands to .300 in a nose size die Buckshot made for me. This way, the bullets can be seated out and the top two bands "bore ride". I can scream these bullets out of m 30-06s at 2 to 2.2K fps with great accuracy. Now I understand why a little better...thanks