hornady lock and load nightmare.

[canuck4570]

a friend of mind just purchase a hornady reloading press..... and adjusting it to load his 357 he noticed that on the seating station when he tried to adjust the crimp die it would bump on the ejector spring in a way that he could not crimp... phone Hornady and the answer given is that he should use Hornady die..... mmmmmm.....and at his suggestion of cutting the crimp die so he could crimp he said it is not recommended.... so If you have any suggestion it would be welcome.... the other thing that he notice is that there is a bit of play when he full length reseize the die seems to go up a little in the lock and load system.....help......the dealer told him he will take it back if he is not satisfied... should he jump on the offer and buy a Dillon..... thank you Michel.....

[KYCaster]

Michel: I had the same problem with 45ACP. I cut the bottom off the RCBS taper crimp die and it works fine.

I think you'll also find that the case feeder needs to be lubed where the plunger pushes on the angled surface to make it swing.

And.....the primer feed. The hole in the shuttle that accepts the primer needs to be chamfered quite a bit, kinda like a funnel at the top. And the back edge of the hole needs to be honed so it doesn't catch on the next primer in the stack.

And......the powder measure. Take it apart and lube the rotor and the surface it rotates in with graphite or moly. And replace the return spring with one that's much, MUCH lighter.

And.....keep a can of air handy. Crud gets inside the primer punch assembly and needs to be blown out occasionally.

It was kinda frustrating at first, but with a little tweaking it works great.

Enjoy.
Jerry

[Baldy]

He will be way a head of the game if he takes it back and gets the Dillon. Ask yourself do you want a Chevy or a Cadie?

[Dale53]

You cannot beat a Dillon - both the equipment and the service is absolutely top drawer.

Dale53

[dragonrider]

Yes, take it back and get a Dillon.

[Cayoot]

I have to disagree. I've had a LNL Progressive since they first came out. I love mine. Dillions are fine (except for the crappy powder hopper....I can't believe they don't make them easy to adjust) (oh and changing primer sizes I've found can be a real PITA!), but the Hornady just seems smoother. Also, the customer service at Hornady (in my opinion) is as good as that at Dillion. The folks bend over backwards and seend me anything that I ask for at the drop of a hat and for free.

If I ask for a depriming pin, they say "No charge" and send me half a dozen.

Great customer service should be rewarded by loyalty, but not to the point of slamming other companies that have great customer service.

I think both Dillion and Hornady are great machines...but dollar for dollar, the Hornady is IMHO a much better bargin.

[Sixgun Symphony]

... phone Hornady and the answer given is that he should use Hornady die.....


I take it that your friend is not using Hornady dies?

If so then getting Hornady dies will likely solve the problem.

[canuck4570]

yes but who want to spend a couple of hundred dollars for new dies he load for about 20 different caliber.....

[kenjuudo]

yes but who want to spend a couple of hundred dollars for new dies he load for about 20 different caliber.....

Email sent.

jim

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I have owned a Dillon 550 and I now have a Hornady. I have to disagree that Dillon 550 or 650 is better. My experience with both of them has shown me different. I've found the priming systems to be about the same, the case feeders to be about the same, the Hornady LnL CAPD powder measure to be signicantly better and so much faster to setup there's no comparison, changerovers are faster and cheaper and the press will load anything I ask of it.

A lot of folks like their Dillons, but to say it's a better press these days is just plain wrong. It used to be, but no longer is. My best buddy has a Dillon 650 now and I load on both. It's not a cadillac to chevy comparison. It's more like a Chevy Vs. Ford. My Hornady loads me typically 25-50 more rounds per hour than I can get out of my buddy's 650. The setup time on his is just a killer. Plus he's got all this extra junk he's had to buy, such as extra powder measures, to cut down on setup time. I haven't had to do that.

The situation as you describe it isn't a nightmare. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Your friend, if he has the internet and is reading any of the reloading forums, would have known about the ejector wire. It's a known issue and is probably the only one the press has. A lot less of a pita than the crappy Dillon powder measure.

As far as the dies go, the only die that actually has an issue is the crimp die if he's running it in the last slot. Just grind or file a little off the base of the die on the side next to the ejector wire so it'll clear the ejector wire. Only need to remove a 1/32th or so of metal on the one side. Simple fix, works well and is what I do with all my lee factory crimp dies, which is probably what your friend is using, though you didn't say so.

Another fix is retrofitting the ejector wire with the old projector ejector, though I don't know how that would affect the case feeder. I felt taking a little metal off the fat Lee FCD was a simple enough solution, since I prefer them over any other crimping die.

[Firebird]

I see so many complaints about Lee progressives, Hornady and even the persistant one about the Dillon powder measure; but never a peep from anyone with an RCBS Pro-2000. Closest thing to a complaint is having to empty the powder measure when changing powders - which is something that just has to be done. Everything else - priming system (APS is just wonderful; doesn't matter is you are using the press, bench or hand tools), changing the priming size, emptying the primer catcher and how well it works, changing dies, changing the shell plate or resetting the powder measure setting is either easier or as easy as any other press on the market. I am so glad that I picked a Pro-2000 press over the others.

[omgb]

I have a LnL press with the case feed system and I love it. You do need a can of air handy in the event that you spill powder in the primer mechanism. Of course, the only way that happened is if you run out of primers.[smilie=1: I too have used a Dillon 650 and they are about equal in quality and performance. Each has trade offs. The Dillan powder measure is inconvenient and primitive. It's a fair copy of the old Star unit. The Hornady LnL measure is much easier to use and far friendlier with stick powders such as the IMRs. Also, either of the two RCBS rotors can be used and if one wanted to, the smaller rotor designed for pistol powders could be subbed for the larger standard rotor. The infinite adjustment screw can be swapped out for the micrometer screw too if you are so inclined but I drop very accurate charges of Bullseye using just the basic unit.


I had the die issue too. I solved it by doing a little grinding. After the initial discovery, I just bought Hornady Dies for a future calibers. The fact that the LnL has more die stations is a HUGE plus for cast bullet reloaders. I think the Dillan CS is better but not so much so that it makes Hornady look bad. It's just easier and a tad more generous. Stick with the LnL, you won't be sorry nor will you be settling for 2nd class tools.

[Cayoot]

I see so many complaints about Lee progressives, Hornady and even the persistant one about the Dillon powder measure; but never a peep from anyone with an RCBS Pro-2000. Closest thing to a complaint is having to empty the powder measure when changing powders - which is something that just has to be done. Everything else - priming system (APS is just wonderful; doesn't matter is you are using the press, bench or hand tools), changing the priming size, emptying the primer catcher and how well it works, changing dies, changing the shell plate or resetting the powder measure setting is either easier or as easy as any other press on the market. I am so glad that I picked a Pro-2000 press over the others.

I have looked at the RCBS 2000, but the big difference here is that it is a manual index. It is not in the same catagory as the Hornady LNL progressive, nor the Dillion 650. It is in the Dillion 550 catagory, and if memory serves me (which it usually doesn't), the RCBS has more die stations. To me, 5 die stations is a MINIMUM!

[500bfrman]

dillon sucks

[NVcurmudgeon]

I have a Dillon Square Deal and think it is a fine machine, and as others have said, you can't fault the service. I see in this thread that some don't like the adjustment of Dillon powder measures. What is the specific complaint? At first, I thought needing a wrench to adjust the measure was bizzare, but I have come to appreciate that the adjustment never loosens up on you.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got a freind that has to lock and loads and boys hes told me many times hed swap me in an instant for any of my dillons. There really not bad presses in my opinion ive used his alot but there just not as user friendly as a dillon and NOBODY backs a product up with the customer service dillon gives!

[omgb]

I really don't understand the problem some people have with the LnL press. Perhaps it's the full progressive issue. Some people get uncomfortable when things get too automated. With a full progressive like the LnL or the Dillon 650, there is a lot going on that one has to keep track of. This presents a hefty learning curve, sort of like learning to drive in a car with a stick shift in big city traffic. This really scares the crap out of some people and makes the whole process unpleasant. The same thing happens when you begin using a full progressive press. However, once you master the process, you wonder why you ever had a problem in the first place.

Mechanically, there is nothing wrong or awkward about the LnL. It is exceedingly well made and engineered. The same can be said of the Dillon and the RCBS. Each machine has its strong points and its draw backs. In the end, after much comparison, I chose the LnL. I am convinced that I got more value for my money than I would have if I had gone with either of the other two. I sacrificed in the area of warranty. I have managed to break a couple of small parts on the LnL through misuse. Hornady required me to pay for these parts. Fair enough. Dillon would have given them to me for free which would have been ideal, maybe RCBS would have too. However, the LnL press was less expensive than the D650 in full battle gear and it is more flexible in use. Ease of change over from one caliber to another, the rapidity of powder charge adjustment, the ability to use any and all of my previously owned dies, the increased number of die stations all outweighed Dillon's advantages. I can't see any reason for me to do it differently. If I were offered the chance to change over to a Dillon 650 today with $100 thrown in to sweeten the deal, I wouldn't take it. I know my LnL. I like my LnL. All of the reasons I chose it in the first place; price, universal availability of accessories, adaptability and flexibility, speed, quality, are all as valid today as they were three years a go.

I can point out specific areas of superiority between the three maker's products. I have no emotional tie to any of these guys and very little brand loyalty. I use what works at the best price. You may value different things and thus you might choose Green or Blue over Red and that's OK. Just don't be a schmuck and choose one over the others because of here-say or excited anecdotal third-person reports. Write down what you value most in a press and then make your choice based on research and logic. That way you are most likely to be satisfied. That's my $.02 any way.:drinks:

You know, when we were kids, arguing Chevy vs. Ford vs. Mopar even though none of us had a driver's license was forgivable because we were kids and were ignorant. Today, we are men and world-wise. Emotion should not figure into an intelligent purchase, only well-reasoned logic. The cost of these machines is equal to a good used rifle. Only a truely imprudent individual would buy one without doing the first-hand research.

[Nazgul]

I have a Hornady L-N-L. Chose it over the Dillon because it was less complicated and looked much stronger. Have never had any problems after learning how to use it correctly. One thing with any of these presses is to take your time. Trying too hurry, which we shouldn't do when reloading anyway, leads to errors. I find there is a rhythm that works very well and produces lots of rounds.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had the same trouble with my 550 when I had it. I had a Lee die that wouldn't quiet reach, so I changed that die over to a Hornady which seemed a bit longer.

As to the Dillon v Hornady, the disadvantage with the Dillon is that if you load multiple calibres, you need to fiddly foot around resetting the measure, etc. If you are cashed up, you buy lots of extra set up heads and measures. The Hornady is changed over by pressing a button and repplacing the insert and maybe the through die. I am beginning to lean towards a Hornady. I had both in the past. The Hornady was a Pro Jector and it was a nightmare, the newere onesseem to be a better deal all round. To do what I want to do with a Dillon looks like I'd have to mortage the house.

[omgb]

I haven't forgotten you Mic...I just haven't had the time and the camera in the same place at the same time.

Reece

[MattT]

If the crimp die is Lee you can put a hollow spacer between the adjustment screw and the crimp ring. Easier than grinding and rechamfering the carbide ring.

[James Wisner]

I use two Hornady progressives.

The old one is a pro 7 which was refitted at the factory to a Projector. I leave it set up for small primers. Best guess is about 10,000 rounds thru it now.

The new one I bought in 1992, and leave set up for large primers, have about 7,000 rounds thru it.

The two things which happen quite often on these older ones is the pin in the bottom of the toggle will work out to one side.
The indexing pawls will work the set secrews loose every 400 rounds or so.

Have been considering the newer LNL because of the case feed, but have not been able to see one as the closest stocking dealer is 3 hours away.

So I guess will just keep plodding along with the older press.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

[Lloyd Smale]

you dont need extra powder measures just some powder bars its a few second job to change out a powder bar that is allready preset.
I had the same trouble with my 550 when I had it. I had a Lee die that wouldn't quiet reach, so I changed that die over to a Hornady which seemed a bit longer.

As to the Dillon v Hornady, the disadvantage with the Dillon is that if you load multiple calibres, you need to fiddly foot around resetting the measure, etc. If you are cashed up, you buy lots of extra set up heads and measures. The Hornady is changed over by pressing a button and repplacing the insert and maybe the through die. I am beginning to lean towards a Hornady. I had both in the past. The Hornady was a Pro Jector and it was a nightmare, the newere onesseem to be a better deal all round. To do what I want to do with a Dillon looks like I'd have to mortage the house.

[kenjuudo]

I use two Hornady progressives.

The old one is a pro 7 which was refitted at the factory to a Projector. I leave it set up for small primers. Best guess is about 10,000 rounds thru it now.

The new one I bought in 1992, and leave set up for large primers, have about 7,000 rounds thru it.

The two things which happen quite often on these older ones is the pin in the bottom of the toggle will work out to one side.
The indexing pawls will work the set secrews loose every 400 rounds or so.

Have been considering the newer LNL because of the case feed, but have not been able to see one as the closest stocking dealer is 3 hours away.

So I guess will just keep plodding along with the older press.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

Jim,
If ya think it would help I can email ya all the pics ya need.

jim

[LAH]

A friend and gunshop owner has a LNL. He loves it but the case feed needed work to suit him. He also has a Dillon but likes the LNL better.

I have Dillon's and find the powder measure of no issue. It adjusts very easy. Changing from the large to small powder bar is simple and fast. The expander/powder funnel die has a learning curve but even for the simple man such as I it's very short.

Another thing, changing from large to small primer feed seems to be a sore spot with people but for the life of me I can't understand why. It's a lot easier than brushing ones teeth properly.........Creeker

[Shawrco]

I got my LNL AP used via ebay. One thing I wish was different is the primer system... mine is the older style. I can convert it, but I'm trying to work with what I've got. For a while, I did the priming by hand as I do with my rifle rounds (I only load pistol on the LNL), putting a new primer in a dirty primer pocket just seems foreign to me!.
I have not been able to get the ejector wire figured out, so I just removed it. Now that I have the crimp die in the last station, I see where the bottom of the die needs to be relieved some, but if someone could explain to me how that wire is positioned, I'd sure appreciate it, i.e. does the end of the wire sit to the side of the shell plate bolt, on top of it, etc.???
The only operational issues I've had have been that it doesn't index fully to each station, I have to move it by hand. My guess is that its got debris under the shell plate. I also have trouble with the slide picking up primers once in a while and with the slide getting stuck , not bringing the primer fully into position. KYCaster shared a few tips I will try in tweaking mine.
All considered, I'm still pleased with my LNL AP.

[rmb721]

canuck: You can cut the seating die off to clear the ejection spring (I did) or use press with ejection spring flipped up out of the way. Then, you just have to pick loaded rounds off yourself. I did that before cutting dies. I have been converting to Hornady dies for the calibers that I load on the LNL/ AP. I like the Hornady seater die better anyway. I even switched to Hornady on some calibers that I load on my Rockchucker because of the seating die.

[Catfish]

I have nothing against Hornady, in fact I think they make some of the best reloading equipment on the market, BUT, when it comes to progressive reloading presses there is nothing close to Dillon.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Shawrco,

"I got my LNL AP used via ebay. One thing I wish was different is the primer system... mine is the older style. I can convert it, but I'm trying to work with what I've got."

Mine was an older style and Hornady upgraded mine for free. You would be money and marbles ahead to upgrade. The new one works without flaw. The older one "ain't quite right."


"I have not been able to get the ejector wire figured out, so I just removed it. Now that I have the crimp die in the last station, I see where the bottom of the die needs to be relieved some, but if someone could explain to me how that wire is positioned, I'd sure appreciate it, i.e. does the end of the wire sit to the side of the shell plate bolt, on top of it, etc.???"

Call Hornady and talk to them about this one. It's not easily explained via typing.

"The only operational issues I've had have been that it doesn't index fully to each station, I have to move it by hand. My guess is that its got debris under the shell plate."

You feed paws that rotate the shellplate are out of adjustment, thereby causing you timing issues. Again, call Hornady and have them explain how to adjust this. They have great tech support. They list an 800 number on their website. WWW.hornady.com.


"I also have trouble with the slide picking up primers once in a while and with the slide getting stuck , not bringing the primer fully into position. KYCaster shared a few tips I will try in tweaking mine."

This is a problem with the older style primer system. If you get the new style and set it up correctly, the problem will go away.

Regards,

Dave

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I have nothing against Hornady, in fact I think they make some of the best reloading equipment on the market, BUT, when it comes to progressive reloading presses there is nothing close to Dillon.

I've noticed that a lot of people that say this haven't reloaded on the current version of the Hornady Lock N Load. I have. I owned a Dillon 550 and a good buddy owns a Dillon 650, so I regularly load on both.

Having loaded on both, I much prefer the Hornady for a number of reasons. As far as one being better than the other, they both load good rounds and are dependable presses that give no trouble if setup and adjusted correctly. Either will give trouble if not setup and adjusted correctly. Warranty nets out about the same. Dillon has no advantage. It's merely a matter of what one is familiar with or what features one wants on their press.

Better? No. Different, with different features, very much so. But assuming superiority in today's world is resting on one's laurels.

Regards,

Dave

[Hunter]

First that ejector rod is adjustable (look at the set screw under the shell plate) you can adjust the ejector in and out to clear the dies as well as change the bend some if needed. No problem.
I believe it would be a mistake to trade the Hornady in on a Dillon. I know a few folks who have used both and all strongly prefer the Hornady. It really is a better press and you don't have to buy the tool heads and extra powder measures.
I have 3 Hornady presses (1 single stage, a Pro 7 and a new L-N-L and all are excellent presses).
A wise man once said don't change horses mid stream http://www.cs.odu.edu/~rtompkin/hornady/blue.php

[omgb]

I have a Hornady LNL, a Pro7 and a Dillon 650. Of the three, the LNL is the best over-all. The Dillon is great but the LNL is faster and easier to change over.

[dromia]

Dillon v's Hornady raises its head again.

Well as I've said before I've had a Hornady LnL AP running for nigh two years now its never missed beat and churns out my bulk rifle ammo.

Tried to buy a Dillon years ago but didn't like their attitude so can't compare presses, but no doubt Dillon has its strengths to.

However the Hornady works well, does what its advertised to do with out hassle or grief and is cheaper than the Dillon 650, so unless you must have blue for decorative reasons then it is a no brainer.

If you have problems with any piece of kit then get back onto the suppliers/maker and get them to sort it out.

[Shawrco]

Michel: I had the same problem with 45ACP. I cut the bottom off the RCBS taper crimp die and it works fine.

[Enjoy.
Jerry

Are we talking actually reducing the length of the die body or reducing the OD? Do the Hornady dies have a smaller OD so that they clear the ejector spring? Thanks.

[rmb721]

Are we talking actually reducing the length of the die body or reducing the OD? Do the Hornady dies have a smaller OD so that they clear the ejector spring? Thanks.

Yes, reducing the length of the body, just enough to clear the ejector spring.

[KYCaster]

Joe: I reduced the length about .250 and cut a chamfer on the ID. Apparently the Hornady dies have the crimp feature closer to the bottom of the die so it doesn't protrude below the tool head.

Jerry

[Shawrco]

Joe: I reduced the length about .250 and cut a chamfer on the ID. Apparently the Hornady dies have the crimp feature closer to the bottom of the die so it doesn't protrude below the tool head.

Jerry

Thanks for the info guys. I guess I should have mentioned that I'm using the Lee carbide factory crimp die. Does that affect how much is cut off. As I re-read the description in the Midway catalog I'm reminded that it has an adjusting screw that sets the amount of crimp. I'll try to back the die body out until it clears the spring and then adjust the taper crimp (45acp).

[Hairtrigger]

Say you trade the Hornady in on a dillon. The first time you break one of those little springs or plastic parts then you trade it in on a ???????
Ever wonder why dillon sells a small parts replacement kit?

[omgb]

Really guys, unless one has used both presses a considerable amount, say a couple of thousand rounds, one really is only speculating or repeating hearsay. I have used both presses that much. Plus, I've got a couple of thousand through a Lee Pro 1000 as well. Of the three, the Hornady is the more egonomic press and it has a faster rate of production provided all are equiped equally. Repair or replace, Dillon might have it better there but I never had to use their service. Hornady was very fast. The only failure I had was a direct result of my forcing the press on a jammed primer. The Lee was a mess from the start. It got out of time, it failed to feed primers, it didn't always feed cases and it generally required a whole mess of tinkering to keep going. The only other press i ever used that was that cantankerous was a Green Machine, geez Louise what a nightmare that was.

Anyone who has honestly looked at the Hornady powder system has to know that it works better than Dillons. The Blue machine is a rehash of the old Star, a great design for ball, flake and short-grained powders but a PITA for most of the IMRs. Changing charges is a great deal of trouble too. Nothing could be simpler with the Hornady. Hornady's shell plate and spring keeper is better than Dillons pins too.

To each his own but I won't be buying a Dillon again any time soon. I think my LNL is great. Oh, and the Lee, well, ahem, lets just say of all of the great Lee products, this is not one of them.

[Shawrco]

Thanks for the info guys. I guess I should have mentioned that I'm using the Lee carbide factory crimp die. Does that affect how much is cut off. As I re-read the description in the Midway catalog I'm reminded that it has an adjusting screw that sets the amount of crimp. I'll try to back the die body out until it clears the spring and then adjust the taper crimp (45acp).

Well, that didn't work, so I guess I'll cut some off the bottom. It has the carbide sizer ring in there, so I hope that doesn't mess things up...

[quasi]

Here is an objective comparison of the LNL, the 650 Dillon, and the Loadmaster from someone who has had all three. Very interesting.http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

[dromia]

Nuff said!

Thanks for the link Quasi, will be useful in the future when this chestnut gets going again.

Hornady seem to be getting confidence that the LNL AP is up there in 650 performance territory for less £s and they are consequently pushing it a bit harder. The bullet deal that you Yanks are getting must be developing their LNL AP user base.

It will be interesting to see if Dilon respond with some new innovation in their product line, they've been resting on their laurels for a while now. Some honest competition won't do them or us any harm, hats of to Hornady for giving the Auto Progressive market a bit of a kick.

[broomhandle]

Hi All,

I have a Dillon 550B for 14-15 years now. It has never let me down. It is rated at 500+ an hour. I load about 400 an hour & it is seems to be all the speed I need in the real world.
I fooled with other press's guys had in the area, I did not like them at all.

Good luck with what ever you have bought.:drinks:

Be safe,
broomhandle

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I dunno,

I got five Dillon SDB's, and two 550's. Never had a lick of trouble with any of them, and the SDB in 9mm has just loaded its 200,000th round. Got a five gallon bucket of empty primers I'd make somebody a great deal on.

Rich
DRSS

[Lloyd Smale]

I do a pile of loading mostly for handguns. I wont get into the red vs blue thing ill go a differnt route. For the most part theres 5 different rounds I load the most. I first tried a 550 then a square deal and heres what i ended up with. Caliber conversions take time with any of them and theres nothing more frustrating then needing to loads something and not having it ready to go. I made up a quick change strong mount that has 3 wing nuts on it and bought 5 square deals. I leave them set up in the caliber and the powder measures are for the most part allways set to go too. If not a couple extra powder bars for each make changes real fast. Ive got another rack on the wall that holds the presses not in use. Two minutes and i change calibers and am loading. I can even leave powder in the measures. Ive loaded on loc and loads and 650s and they both work well but imo a square deal is faster even without a case feeder. The short stroke of the lever more then makes up for the time involved in picking up a case an putting it in the press if you have a case bin right next to the press. Do they mess up? You bet but ive yet to see one that does and if yours doenst your just not loading enough rounds. Ive even had a square deal body break in half. Dillon replaced as usual free. Using this setup i allways have spare parts. If something breaks just rob it off another press and keep going till dillon sends the parts. Your never down when you need ammo. Me id love to have 5 1050s or even 650s set up but the cost is prohibitive and for the price of one i can have 5 square deals and the 1050 is a pain to change over and id probably get a hernia mounting and remounting them and would have to build a new loading room. For rifle loading and odd handgun i use a 550. Do i like it yes but after using a square deal its like loading in mud! SLOW. For the most part the only rifle i load that much of where i need a progressive is 223 and unless someone comes up with a true carbide rifle die loading rifle on a progressive isnt that much faster anyway. What mine gets used mostly for is 500 line and 4440 and 3220 and a few others that I cant get a square deal to do. As to the powder measures ive never had one problem with a dillon. Like i said i dont load much rifle and if i do its with ball as i would never trust ANY powder measure for stick powders. I use an auto pack scale dispensor for those. What would i like to see? a cheap case feeder for a square deal. One that was cheap enough to put on each press so again i dont have to change anything. Probably dreaming there. But i would challange anyone to a round per hour count on any press against a square deal even without a feeder. They may not be as stout as a hor. or 650 but theres stout enough for handgun loading and a couple of mine have well over a million rounds out of them. My 45acp press has actually wore out 2 carbide dies! which again dillon has replaced for free. Ive loaded on the hornady and wont bad mouth it. I didnt like some of the ergonomics but then im so used to dillons that it probably explains my preference. Ive had a loadmaster and a pro 1000. Both bought figuring on saving some money and i thought they were both junk. Especially the loadmaster. I spent more time fiddling with the presses then loading. Maybe there fine for someone loading a 1000 rounds a year but i sometimes do that in a day. Dream press for me would be a version of the square deal made totaly of steel with fixed dies with only a carbide insert to replace if worn. Design a fool proof primer feed that is not effected by dirt and an case feeder that is fixed and set in one caliber too. Get rid of all the plastic bushings and parts and make it hell for stout and id start saving my money to buy a bunch of them. But i guess truth be know i can live with my current setup as i doubt theres enough demand for anyone to make what I want. But personaly id still take two square deals over a 650 or a lnl if all i did was handguns and like I said rifle loading for the most part is a single stage press deal to me.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Dang Lloyd, I'd like to read your post, as I find how other reloaders do things interesting, but it's too crammed together. Would you be kind enough to break it into paragraphs?

Regards,

Dave

[omgb]

Ahh, it's OK as is. Sort of a stream of consciousness thing .... Almost Zen. Thanks for the input Lloyd

[Lloyd Smale]

my ma and three sisters are teachers and theyre constantly ******** about my gramer spelling and writing. I figure on a gun board im writing for good old boys to read and aint about to do spell check or paragraphing. Like omgb said most of my posts are nothing but unknowlegable rambling anyway. Just wrote as im thinking with no forethought put into them.

[omgb]

As a teacher and a fair expert on 19th century American history, I can assure you Lloyd, your ramblings as grammatically "unique" as they are, are far more cogent than most of the stuff our heros of the old west wrote. And for a real challenge, try reading the manuscripts dating from the 17th century .... Oh boy howdy are those difficult. Not only is the syntax (word order) and vocabulary different, but spelling is every man for himself. Geez, even common words such as "let" have completely different meanings from today. In modern American English, let means to permit, in the 17th century, it could mean to prohibit depending on context. I have spent thousands of hours studying writings such as these and I'm still here. Add to that the creative ramblings of my own high school students, many of whom are FOBs (fresh off the boat) and really, your machinations are relatively crystal clear.

[floodgate]

omgb:

One thing that helps, in trying to decipher early/mid-19th-Century American "English" (like Sam Colt's letters) is to read them out loud. Before Noah Webster set spelling in concrete, they "spelled 'em as they heard 'em" - or as they wanted 'em to be heard.

Doug

[omgb]

Very true. I learned back in grad school though that wome pronuciations have changed drastically through the decades. 19th century English is still pretty close to modern American. Go back to the 1600s though and all bets are off. All Americans until the Federal Period (1800-1840s) spoke with some form of an English accent or, an Irish or Scottish brogue. That really affects phonetic spelling. Lots of fun reading the old stuff.

[Ken O]

I dunno,

I got five Dillon SDB's, and two 550's. Never had a lick of trouble with any of them, and the SDB in 9mm has just loaded its 200,000th round. Got a five gallon bucket of empty primers I'd make somebody a great deal on.

Rich
DRSS

The spent primers are worth big $$. They are brass, I took in just a regular coffee can full to the local scrapyard and got $22. If you have a five gallon bucket.......

[50 Caliber]

9 years ago my house burned down and my Dillon presses went up with it, One letter to Dillon and a photo of the mess and before the insurance company could get there to do there little thing there were 3 brand new Dillons deliverd from the factory with a letter from Mike Dillon with regrets for the losses we suffered. Try that with Hornady! Ive had trouble getting help with a die issue.
Dillon has my undieing loyalty. He!!, I named my last born Dillon.

[Hunter]

I am sorry to hear about your loss. I have had dealings with Hornady (Kathy and Steve) and they have all been positive. I have 3 Hornady presses and my father has 1 (about 20 years old) and all work great. My oldest is a Pro 7 from about 1978 and she still runs like a sewing machine. The others are a L-N-L single stage and a L-N-L progressive. For me it is Hornady or nothing!

[losttrail]

Later this summer I will be upgrading from a 28-year old Lee Turret press to a progressive.

At this point, the Hornady LNL AP is leading. From everything I can gather, the Dillon 650 would bankrupt me with 12 calibers to load for and as I understand it, the time for caliber changes would be significant.

I'm still looking at the Dillon 550 but I believe the 5 station of the LNL will win out.

[DR Owl Creek]

I got my AP L-N-L in 2004. One of the features that won me over from the Dillon 650 was the quick change over and relatively low cost of doing so, compared to the Dillon. I've loaded 1,000s and 1,000s of rounds since then with ZERO problems. The only things that have been replaced are the cartridge retainer springs every so often, and so far Hornady has always sent those to me for FREE. Buy with confidence!

I think I also have 17 sets of Hornady dies (along with some others). The only one of those that had a problem was the 45 ACP titanium nitride sizing die that started scratching the sides of the cases. Hornady replaced that one for FREE too.

Dave

[Four Fingers of Death]

Keep your eyes open for a second hand RCBS AmmoMaster Progressive. These are mega expensive new but don't seem to bring dollars when sold second hand. They are a quality machine and are cheaper to change over calibres, using only one powder measure. They are not as quick as a LnL to change dies, but heck 45 seconds as against 2 mins, no biggie. I picked up one in excellent condition with 6 shellplates for $250. I bought it while waiting for bits to get the new LnL started. Gave up on it and sold the LnL.

[dudel]

you dont need extra powder measures just some powder bars its a few second job to change out a powder bar that is allready preset.

Ditto. Dillon already sends you two (large and small). Additional powder bars are much less than having another measure (although I do have several of those!). What I'd really like to see would be a set of Delrin powder bars with fixed cavities (like a Little Dandy), Buy the powder bars you need and done. Perhaps even a blank one so you could drill it out for a custom bar. Shouldn't be too expensive, not much machining to do other than the slot for the bellcrank cube. I may have to look into making me some. Now to find some Delrin stock.

I've got mostly Hornady gear. Like them, like the company. My first progressive was a Pro-Jector. Hated the powder measure which seems very similar to the one on the LNL. In my case it would bind badly with flake powder (Bullseye and Unique come to mind) and the "positive" return was anything but. I much prefer the Dillon powder dump and my 550b. Still there are some features of the Hornady progressive that make good sense: 1) the spring retainer vs the pins. 2) moving the primer tube to the back and away from the user.

[ReloaderFred]

This 7 year old thread has come back to life, I see. I've owned several progressive presses over the years, both Dillon and Hornady. Now I only own the Hornady LNL progressive, even though there are also several other single stage presses on my bench for other duties. When I wore out a Pro-Jector press after about 400,000 rounds, Hornady rebuilt it for free. I gave it to a friend, who has been using it ever since.

I much prefer the LNL powder measure to the Dillons I had in the past. I use mostly Bullseye and Winchester 231 for my production handgun loads and they meter through the LNL measure extremely consistently.

I have no complaints with either company's warranty service, but I just prefer the design of the LNL to the 550 I had in the past. The upside is the 550 sold quickly, and I don't miss it at all...... Win/win!

Hope this helps.

Fred