PVC Wads

[joeb33050]

I have never found a wad in the case mouth to increase accuracy. Cork or grease or plastic. When breech seating, I have to use a wad in the case mouth to keep the powder from drooling into the Martini action on my bench gun.
This gun reliably leads after 10 record and a couple of sighter shots, and has done so for 15years, but it shoots very well and is worth the cleaning.
Bill McGraw sent me some PVC sheets, and I've cut 30 caliber wads from them and have been using them in the case mouth.
The last three times out there has been no leading.
Yesterday, 8/23/2006, at 100 yards I got five shot groups of .9, .775, .8, .975 and .85, with two different bullets. Total of 31 shots with foulers..
There was zero leading, not one flake, when I cleaned the gun.
The bullet is breech seated but the case goes AROUND the bullet in the chamber, so the wad is pushed down by the bullet base.
So, this .062" thick PVC wad has cured the leading problem, now I've got to get Bill to tell me where he gets these sheets.
I might add that Soft Gas Checks also eliminate leading in this gun, but the accuracy doesn't seem to be as good.
joe b..

[Bass Ackward]

I have never found a wad in the case mouth to increase accuracy. Cork or grease or plastic.

I might add that Soft Gas Checks also eliminate leading in this gun, but the accuracy doesn't seem to be as good.
joe b..


Joe,

Once a guy wrote that the finest accuracy was to be found just before the point where leading begins. I think his name was Marshall. Some call that tayloring the mix to the load or purpose.

If you do something that prevents that from happening, you would also push the accuracy point farther out wouldn't ya? Change a variable and you have to adjust.

I once had a guy tell me that teflon ruined the accuracy of his barrel. I have used teflon many times. It always ruined the accuracy of my loads. But once I adjusted the loads up, my accuracy came right back. I take that back, I had one instance where I had to go back to a less slipery lube to get accuracy to come back with that same powder because ignition was impacted that much. I suppose that is the same logic described in the first paragraph.

One last thought. It is becoming a precieved fact that accuracy simply is not possible from a gun / load condition that leads. Some of my best accuracy loads will lead. And all loads will lead eventually requiring cleaning. We just go with what is acceptable to us.

[felix]

Amen. ... felix

[cherok9878]

Too far over my head! I have a picture of seating a boolit, inserting a case primed and filled with powder with a PVC wad in place to hold the powder in the case? Wad keeps powder form dribbling into action? Not being condecending or obnoxious(sp), will never be to your level of applied knowledge in this process. Just trying to put the picture together. Sorry for the inconvience...........larry

[joeb33050]

Too far over my head! I have a picture of seating a boolit, inserting a case primed and filled with powder with a PVC wad in place to hold the powder in the case? Wad keeps powder form dribbling into action? Not being condecending or obnoxious(sp), will never be to your level of applied knowledge in this process. Just trying to put the picture together. Sorry for the inconvience...........larry
I guess I'm not writing clearly. Here's how I load that gun.
Put a bullet in the chamber. Push it in with a SHORT plugged case. Put a 1/2" dowel on the base of the plugged case and whack the dowel with a plastic mallet until the plugged case is all the way in, then remove it.
Because the case has to be aimed DOWN at first to go in a Martini action, I put a wad in the case mouth to hold the powder in and keep it from dribbling into the action. (Have also used many dacron wads on the powder.) Push the charged and with a wad case into the chamber, case mouth goes AROUND the bullet.
Fire.
That's how I load this gun, the PVC wads keep it from leading.
joe b.

[w30wcf]

joeb33050,

Glad to hear that you are getting good results using the plastic base wad.

I have used them to successfully to push plain based bullets to 2,000+ f.p.s. with no leading and good groups.

Regarding the wad material, I think that it is actually LPE (low density polyethylene). It can be purchased from Buffalo Arms http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7.htm

It is the material I use.

Great stuff for firewalling a bullet.

w30wcf

[357maximum]

What do you fellas cut the wads with? commercial product? or something homemade like an old case. I am cheap and thinking about an el cheapo method of cutting these out.

Michael

[cherok9878]

Joe, thanks for the explanation. I have been loading my own since 77 and I am amazed at how little I know about a subject that I dearly love. This is like playing pool, if you play with someone who is better at the game than you, you will learn something..............thanks .............larry

[Wayne Smith]

Is this the same stuff I'm cutting out of the tops of the Chinese food containers? If so, they work in my 40-70BN. Probably as a scraper wad is my guess, but maybe stopping gas cutting.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Do you mean the thin stryine type container or the clear thin plastic containers? All of the chinee food in Australia comes in the clear disposable plastic trays with matching lids.

[13Echo]

Most BPCR shooters, when they use plastic wads, are using LDPE (low density polyethylene) about.003 to .006" thick. The translucent, flexible plastic lids on many containers are LDPE and some flexible plastic bottles (the kind that are not rigid) are also. For recycling purposes they are frequently marked as such. Wads can be cut with a hammer punch or press mounted punch such as sold by Buffalo Arms and sheets of plastic are available from them also. I haven't seen PVC (polyvinyl chloride) used as wads but I suppose it could.

Jerry Liles

[guninhand]

Just wondering, does case neck have to go around the bullet? Is it an advantage? From what I've read, traditional breach seating of bullets recommend a .01 inch gap, or thereabouts, between the case mouth andd bullet base.

[PatMarlin]

Harbor Freight sells cheap sets of hole punches.

I have sets of punches from my old leather craft days. They should be pretty easy to make with a metal lathe also.

[Dale53]

Jerry;
You have your decimal point in the wrong place[smilie=1: . The LDPE wads in use by the BPCR people are .030"-.060". I have long used .060" LDPE wads in Black Powder Cartridge Rifles with good effect (seems to cut down on flyers at relatively long range (500 yards and over). I got my material from Buffalo Arms. I prefer the .060" wads because actual tests have shown that it takes that thickness to properly protect the bullet bases from powder/primer blast.

I cut my wads myself with a loading press mounted tool made by Fred Cornell of Pennsylvania (also available from Buffalo Arms). If you want to try them or have someone else make them, you can get them direct from King Machine in Kila, Montana or Walters Wads (google them). Also can be had from Buffalo Arms.

I have bought many of different calibers from King Machine before I started making my own. They cost something like $16.00 per thousand delivered (it has been quite a while since I bought any).

Dale53

[13Echo]

"Jerry;
You have your decimal point in the wrong place . The LDPE wads in use by the BPCR people are .030"-.060". "

OOPS! So I do.

Do you use a newspaper or waxpaper wad between the LDPE and the bullet base to keep the wad from sticking?

Jerry Liles

[Bad Flynch]

You can buy LDPE sheets from McMaster-Carr at www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) ; that's where I get mine. I also bought a punch from one of the BP specialty guys--one of the press mounted kind.

Very helpful is a cutter for leather that cuts strips. I bought that from Tandy years ago. Once the strips are cut in the correct width, then they can be run through the punch more easily.

[Buckshot]

............Metric sized punches do a good job of filling in dead areas the fractional sizes miss.

.................Buckshot

[Maven]

All, LDPE rang a bell, but I couldn't recall which type of plastic/recyclable it was. After looking it up on Google, I found what I was looking for: The symbol is a sort of triangle with the number "4" inside. The lids of some margarine containers and the rings that hold 6-packs of beverages are often LDPE. Btw, I tried them once in my .357mag. revolver with #358429 in an order to eliminate what little leading I got. They worked after a fashion (raised vel. by ~100fps), but you'll need a powder that practically fills the case and is slightly compressed by the LDPE disk and CB.

[wills]

Coffee can lids, too. Used in BPCR, compression is often needed

A thought, they are not exactlyl .030 or .060 but might do
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=72&product%5Fid=10342