Bigger boolit leading more?

[ScottJ]

My first 9MM cast were this RCBS mold, sized .356 and loaded over 3.8gr of Bullseye: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=422048

I found that mold hard to cast well so I decided to try Lee's TL356-124-2R.

It is much easier to crank out good looking ones and casts bigger than the RCBS (around .357 to .358).

The RCBS load didn't give me any leading and was quite accurate.

Tried the same charge under the Lee boolit since on my scale the two weigh within 2 grains of each other (RCBS 117.5, Lee 119.5). They were not accurate and gave me leading.

Tried 3.9 gr of HP38. Got the accuracy back but am still getting some lead spalling in the throat. It comes out easily with Kroil and a bronze brush but we're only talking 17 rounds here. I worry 50 would be a big mess.

Is it possible I need to size the TL boolits to .356 like I did the RCBS? I figured bigger would be better.

No, I've not slugged the bore yet. The gun in question is a S&W Sigma SW9VE.

[dubber123]

I am willing to bet the reason for the leading is the greatly reduced amount of lube the TL design holds compared to the RCBS. I have never had a fatter boolit cause leading over a smaller one. Good luck.

[ScottJ]

I thought about less lube. The TLs only got tumbled in LLA once while the RCBS would have gotten it twice. Once before and once after sizing.

But with a shortage of lube I'd expect to see leading at the muzzle or all the way through the barrel rather than just the first inch past the throat.

I have a batch of those RCBS tumble lubed once as cast. Might give them a try.

[cajun shooter]

I don't use Lee lube or the bullets as they are too small in the lube area for BP shooting. I suspect that dubber hit it dead on. When you compare the two it is easy to see why the RCBS worked better. I shoot a lot of bullets down range and can't remember the last time I had any leading. I read about leading with the Lee lube all the time. Why not try something different?

[ScottJ]

I read about leading with the Lee lube all the time. Why not try something different?

Because I'm lazy and cheap. :)

The LLA is quick and easy. In fact, I went with the TL design specifically so I could skip the sizing step.

Have thought about pan lubing though. Just need to get all my stuff together to do it and cook up some home brew lube.

[dubber123]

Scott, as a test it's easy to just hand rub another lube into the groove(s) of a boolit. I do this quite a bit when testing, as changing out lubes in a lubrisizer is a pain. Do you have any other stick type lubes you could try?

[knifemaker]

You said that you were tumble lubing the RCBS boolits twice and the Lee boolits only once due to not sizing them. Why not try tumble lubing the lee bullets twice even though you do not size them. A little extra lube might just cure your leading problem and would not require that much extra time.

[mooman76]

Some bullets just react differently just like all guns are different. I guess it would be a possibility that when squeesing the bullet down some in the barrel that you are rubbing the lube off and getting leading so sizing down some would help but I think this unlikely. I would deffinately slug the barrel so you know where you are there. Try a thicker coat of lube or a second coat. My guess would be a little more lube.

[mpmarty]

If it isn't leading down the bore near the muzzle your lube isn't the problem. Look elsewhere.

[MtGun44]

I tend to agree that LLA is for the 'lazy and cheap', as ScottJ calls himself.

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

We have continuous posts by people that have leading with tumble lube Lee and
LLA lube. I would avoid it.

I am just about done even responding to the "I'm using Lee TL XX-YY and LLA and get
leading, why is this?" kind of posts. To numerous and guys don't want to hear that
it is a marginal system at best. They can figure it out on their own. The short answer,
which is too rude, and I have never said is "Because it is a crappy system that barely
works"

Bill

[ScottJ]

MtGun, found your other thread on the 9MM after posting mine.

I could easily blame the LLA had I not had success with it in other applications. Including some mid-range .357 mag with a non-tumble lube design.

[mdi]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/leading.htm Good article on leading. The area where the leading occurs in the bbl. can give clues to what the problem is.

[qajaq59]

Because I'm lazy and cheap. And apparently, honest. LOL

I'd try a different lube. And it would be best if you did get around to slugging the barrel.

[jrayborn]

I have used the Lee T/L bullet to pretty good effect in my Glock 17. Using Alox and Johnsons Paste Wax 50/50 with two coats. I usually run 6-7 mags at each session and have yet to get any leading except what rubs off on the feed ramp, and that's with the factory barell. Alox works pretty good, you just have to use two coats and allow it to dry. Still a lot faster to do high volume than lube-sizing.

Keep experimenting, you'll figure it out! :)

[ScottJ]

And apparently, honest. LOL

To a fault.

At 41 I've gotten to old to expend any effort on my ego.

[ScottJ]

Another thought on this came to mind when loading up some of the RCBS design.

I remembered the TL design has an ever so slight bevel at the bottom (not poor fill, the mold is designed that way). Wonder if that is causing any issues?

The RCBS design is quite square to the point of being a little difficult to get started in the case.

[Harter66]

See posts about about the lee tl???? Swaging in the case also. If yours are soft they maybe slugging uppast the throught area. Also just flatten the flair if you crimp you'll swage too.

[GabbyM]

I'd be surprised to hear the unsized lee bullets at .358” fit into the throat of a S&W.
Are you seating them short to get them to chamber? If so. Try sizing them to .356” as you did the RCBS bullets. Then load them out past 1.100” until the bullet starts to bump rifling or you reach 1.150"

[44man]

MtGun, found your other thread on the 9MM after posting mine.

I could easily blame the LLA had I not had success with it in other applications. Including some mid-range .357 mag with a non-tumble lube design.
Chances are that a boolit with no lube at all would do the same as LLA.
I use Felix lube on ALL TL boolits with amazing accuracy and zero leading. The silly little GG's will work with the right lube.

[Char-Gar]

Sign my name to the list that thinks the problem is not the size of the bullet, but the design of the bullet and the lube. I am not a fan of LLA! The few times I have tried it has resulted in inferior results over traditional soft lube.

[Echo]

I recommend against using LLA on 9mm boolits. Low pressure loads, OK - 9mm, Nix. My limited experience w/LLA is positive, but involved a popcorn .38 load for training purposes. The boolit involed was a traditional 93 gr RN w/standard lube groove over 3 gr 200 powder. No leading and reasonable accuracy for the purpose.
Try 44man's suggestion - mix up some felix lube and try it. I haven't used it, but it receives very good reviews her.

[Dannix]

ScottJ. read up here if you haven't already. If you're going to go the LLA route, then this is a good route to take.
Tumble Lubing--Made Easy & Mess-Free (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654)

White Label is working on selling a version of this commercially, which is nice now that JPW is apparently gone carnauba free.