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MtGun44
07-17-2010, 11:56 AM
The 9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger) is a bit of a problem child in reloading
with boolits. :twisted: There have been a lot of newbie questions, and
this leads to repeating the same old stuff, but in bits and pieces. I decided
to pull together my recommendations on how to most likely hit a good
load the first try. Not the only way, but a way that has worked for me in
a number of 9mms.

WITH JACKETED BULLETS the "standard bullet size" is about .355 or .356.
If you use this diameter in the great majority of 9mms with cast, you will get
boolits hitting the target sideways at 10 yds and often terrible leading. The
problem is that the groove diameter of the barrels run up to .357” or even
more and you need to have a boolit that is .001 or .002 inches LARGER
diameter than the groove diameter.

Measure groove diameter by “slugging the barrel” - remove from gun, drive
a soft lead slug thru the barrel with a brass rod and measure the largest
diameter WITH A MICROMETER not a caliper.

The typical caliper is rated to be accurate within plus or minus .001 inch. This
means if you measure a bore slug at .357, it could be .358 or just as well, it
could actually be .356. There is absolutely NO WAY to know between the limits
what the actual measurement is. Pretty useless for this application, really.

You need a micrometer which is accurate to .0001 inch, or TEN TIMES the accuracy
of a dial caliper. In answering a question on another thread I went out to
Enco, a large national supplier of precision tools and equipment for the machining
industry and found an amazing sale. It is amazing that you can get such a
precision device for under $35 delivered.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=16720828&PMAKA=619-3106

This is a real decent tool for an amazingly low price. If you do not have a
micrometer, you should consider dropping the $35 or so (with shipping) that
this costs and start REALLY knowing what diameter that mold drops, or what
diameter that sizer die sizes too

Select a good boolit design. IMO, avoid the Lee tumble lube designs for 9mm.
They can work but 9mm is a bit of a PITA and using this marginal lube design
(which is easy and cheap to get started with, I admit) increases your probability
that you will fail and need to start over with a new mold and conventional lube.

Try the excellent Lee 356-120-TC (pn 90239 in 2 cav) or the Lee 358-105-SWC
(pn 90316 in 2 cav) and air cooled wheel wts, sizing to actual slugged (measured)
groove diameter +.001 or .002 inch diameter, use a standard lube like NRA formula
50-50. It is possible that you would have chambering difficulties with a .358 boolit
and a very tight chamber. If this happens, try different brand brass cases, some
are very thick in the neck and can cause this problem. Thinner case
necks may solve this problem.

If you do not have a lubrisizer, you can pan lube or hand lube. Use the search
function on this site to learn about these simple and cheap methods.

Get some approved loading data for your chosen powder. If you are starting
from scratch, Bullseye, Titegroup, Unique, Universal, HP38, W231 are all good
choices. Start at a starting load, slowly work up once you get things working.
Hodgdon has a great site:

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

It is best to have a separate taper crimp die, but careful use of a single stage seat
and crimp die can work it set up carefully. Remove the barrel and use the chamber
as a gauge to set the crimp and depth of seating. Look for the boolit to be
engraved by the rifling if seated too long, and the cartridge will not drop freely
into the chamber all the way flush with the end of the barrel hood. Keep increasing
seating depth until the boolit does not interfere with the rifling and seats fully with
no more than 1 lb force. IGNORE load book seating depths, seat to just clear your
rifling and so the cartridge drops all the way into the dismounted chamber.

Quick review:
- avoid Lee tumble lube designs and LLA lubricant in this caliber
- fit the boolit to the barrel +.001 or .002 over groove diam (slug the barrel)
- use a conventional lube groove boolit design and known-good lube like NRA 50-50
- use air cooled wheel weight alloy to start
- use barrel as seating depth setup tool - ignore book seating depths
- slight taper crimp is preferred, regular crimp can be OK, remove the flare plus a touch
- use a factory load data for similar bullet weight, exact match is not important
- use a starting load, then work up slowly

Enjoy. :drinks:

oldtoolsniper
07-17-2010, 12:47 PM
Do yourself a favor, if you choose it seat your boolits using the chamber as your guide you need to make sure they will work in your magazine. Single shot magazine fed weapons force you to give up your cool points!

MtGun44
07-17-2010, 12:57 PM
Good idea, but I have never run into one where the chamber wasn't the controlling
thing. Worth the check, tho, for sure.

Bill

prickett
07-18-2010, 10:19 AM
You need a micrometer which is accurate to .0001 inch, or TEN TIMES the accuracy
of a dial caliper. In answering a question on another thread I went out to
Enco, a large national supplier of precision tools and equipment for the machining
industry and found an amazing sale. It is amazing that you can get such a
precision device for under $30 delivered.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PMAKA=890-9844



This link gives me an unknown part number error.

Thanks for the summary! I wish I saw this 4 months ago :-). Your advice is right on the money.

JIMinPHX
07-18-2010, 11:33 AM
If you are stuck just using a pair of calipers, you can test their actual accuracy by measuring something of known diameter, near the diameter that you want to measure, & see what you actually get. If you take a commercially made .357" bullet, & it measures .358", then your calipers are probably reading .001" larger than is true. You can subtract the .001" from your actual measurement on another object of similar size & be fairly accurate. This only works if you have a test standard to measure that is very near the size of the actual object that you want to measure. Qualification measurements on a .5000" or .2500" test standard does not qualify your calipers to be more accurate measuring .357" items. If you check your calipers on a a .357" bullet, you should usually be good to measure items in a range withing a few thousandths of there.

Most digital calipers only have resolution down to .0005", so you will never see anything better than that. On a pair of dial calipers, you can estimate the reading between the printed demarcation lines down to .0001". When doing a relative comparison measurement, this makes dial calipers much more useful than digitals.

$26 for a tenth reading Fowler micrometer is a great deal. If you can afford to, you should really buy the one that Bill recommended. If not, then the method that I just described is a second best option.

JIMinPHX
07-18-2010, 11:38 AM
This link gives me an unknown part number error.


Try this one - http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2

If that doesn't work, then go to http://www.use-enco.com & search for Micrometers, then Fowler, then mechanical, then .0001 resolution. You should be able to find it that way too.

chris in va
07-18-2010, 12:42 PM
I'll throw in that I've had great great success with the Lee 358-125-RF mold in my CZ 75 and HiPoint carbine, sized to 358 (drops 362). As noted I had to shorten the OAL considerably for it to chamber in the CZ, but no issues provided I load minimum charges.

MtGun44
07-18-2010, 01:58 PM
OK, apparently they ran out of that micrometer, link didn't work for me any more either.
I edited my original post to change the price slightly and go to the new link to a similar
mic below.

Try this one,

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=16720828&PMAKA=619-3106

Slightly more expensive, but still around $35 including the shipping and rated at .0001" Not
quite as good a bargain, but still a good tool at a reasonable price. This will last a lifetime
with care.

Chris - Nothing against that boolit, just no personal experience with it. Others should try it
also, based on your recommendation.

Jim's recommendation will help the caliper owner to narrow the range of uncertainty quite a bit,
not a bad idea for those that can't afford to buy a micrometer. The second mic listed in Jim's
linked page is the one I changed my link to.

Bill

JIMinPHX
07-18-2010, 04:46 PM
Bill, I think that this is the one you were looking for. It's still $26 + shipping. It's just not on the other web page anymore.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-9845&PMPXNO=5284469&PARTPG=INLMK32