45 ACP question

[chris in va]

I've had great success with the TL 230gr Lee mold for my Sig when I load toward minimum charges, very little leading. On a whim I cranked it up to near the max with Unique according to my Lyman manual.

As expected recoil was much stiffer, but I also got severe leading. The boolits are towel dropped. For faster loads should I water drop these?

[Recluse]

How is the fit, and how are you lubing them?

I have that boolit and get no leading--I cast from WW with a dash of extra tin thrown in (I do this for all TL boolits to help with fillout on the microbands) and let them air-cool. Lube--size--lube, load, shoot. NO leading (except for one old 1911 Series 70 Gov't that leads no matter what you run through it)

:coffee:

[sqlbullet]

Recluse has given you good advice. Fit should be determined first when investigating leading. Slug the bore, and compare it to a sized bullet.

Also, pay attention to your crimp step. Applying a hard taper crimp may be sizing the bullet down .001". Just enough crimp to flatten out any flare you put on the case mouth to start the bullet.

[243winxb]

You need a bullet diameter of .452" and add some linotype to your alloy. Forget water drop for a 45acp. IMO

[chris in va]

Just the usual thinned Alox, nothing special. I slugged the bore a while back and got 452 IIRC.

[gray wolf]

Slug it again and make sure it is .452--If it is go at least .001 to .0015 over for your bullets.
WW and half lead air cooled should work fine for a 45 ACP--or plain WW air cooled,
you don't need to water drop em. If you still have leading get a better lube, and don't over crimp them.

Sam

[fredj338]

Slug it again and make sure it is .452--If it is go at least .001 to .0015 over for your bullets.
WW and half lead air cooled should work fine for a 45 ACP--or plain WW air cooled,
you don't need to water drop em. If you still have leading get a better lube, and don't over crimp them.

Sam
Good advice. All I shoot in my various 45acp is lead bullets. Sized 0.452" & run them from 750-900fps depending on bullet wt. Not much leading to speak of. I us Dillin dies, no LFCD, alloy is straight ww or even 50/50 lead/ww mix.

[MtGun44]

Chris.
I am glad to hear that your original load is working well. Alox (mule snot) is
working for you in this low power load, that is a good thing.
You want groove diam +.001 to .002, typically with .45 ACP +.001 is enough.

Thinned alox is very marginal lube. You have probably exceeded it's capacity
with the hotter load. Perhaps you can use another powder and make it work,
perhaps not.

This is why I don't recommend mule snot. First, try out two or three coats of
mule snot, may or may not work. If a good fit and multiple coats of mule snot
fails, you need to buy a real boolit design and use a real lube, or stay with the
low power loads where mule snot is most reliable.

Try to get some samples of a normal lube groove boolit lubed with some standard
known-good lube like 50-50 in the correct diameter. You will probably have excellent
results, so you can then be sure that buying a new mold and taking the time and effort to
pan lube or hand lube will work. Then you need to decide whether you want pan or hand
lube convential boolits, or whether to move up to a lubrisizer or stay with low power loads.

Bill

[Edubya]

Chris, I've pan-lubed a bunch of .45 just trying out various lube combinations. I've run these blends up to 860 fps with 5.3gr BE with very little or no leading. These were "as cast" .453". I'll admit, I've used the Alox only one time, was disgusted with its performance in every way. My alloy was 50/50 WW/lead with about 6 oz of lead free solder (air-cooled).

EW

[RobS]

My alloy was 50/50 WW/lead with about 6 oz of lead free solder (air-cooled).EW

Ok............6 oz of lead free solder means what?????......not much.......Chris may need at a minimum the amount of alloy you are mixing the solder into.

Chris you shouldn't need anything more than WW's or a blend of WW/lead with some tin (1-2%max) for mold fill out if you have that problem. This all in effect providing that you have good bullet fit of course. However that doesn't mean you can't try water quenched WW. I've seen where a shooter at the range had two sets of Lee 230g Truncated TL design bullets: one straight WW's water quenched and the other straight air cooled WW's. He had a leaded barrel with the air cooled and his water quenched did well with little to no leading.

This could have been that his bullets were being swaged down upon seating and or crimping when using the air cooled WW's or it could be that during the seating process it smashed down the small tumble lube grooves enough that the lube smeared off in the case, again with the air cooled WW. That is my thoughts on it all and it doesn’t hurt to try some water quenched bullets as it may work for you. You won't know unless you try it.

[randyrat]

Chris in VA......To simplify it. Using soft lead and mouse fart loads work great.
When you up the pressure and torque on your bullet, everything has to be perfect.
I cheat sometimes and use a different lube to make up for my gun, bullet design, alloy or boolit fit. (try adding a little JPW to your Alox)


Boolit fit is one of the most important controllable variables and one way to make more bullets work in your gun is;
Make them as fat as you can and still function in your gun safely. This is not my theory, it's been proven over and over, i learned it here and i put it too work.

[Echo]

Ok............6 oz of lead free solder means what?????......not much.......Chris may need at a minimum the amount of alloy you are mixing the solder into.


Too true. If the 6 oz. was in a 10-lb pot, it would be about 4%, way more than necessary. If in a 20-lb pot, about 2%. In my little 3-lb Potter that only holds 2 1/2 lbs - carrumba!

RobS is right - we need to be a little more precise. It ain't rocket science, but science has a lot to do with it, and we need a modicum of accuracy.

And I'm with RandyRat - make the boolits as fat as will chamber and function reliably.

[MtGun44]

Or as the wag said:

"This isn't rocket surgery"
:-)

Bill

[Char-Gar]

There are times, I get so frustrated at these type of questions. The original poster does not give critical information needed for an answer and immediatly everybody jumps on the question with their favorite hobby horse.

Christ... Either your alloy or your lube rolled snaked eys when you boosted the pressure/velocity. You told us the lube but you didn't tell us the alloy. You didn't tell us the powder charge that worked and the powder charge that didn't work. Without that information all you will get is guess work, assumption and conjecture.

The facts man..the facts! No answer is relevant when given before the facts are known.

Just post the question..."Gee whiz guys, my pistol isn't shooting like I want".. and watch the answers, essays come rolling in.

[Recluse]

Just the usual thinned Alox, nothing special. I slugged the bore a while back and got 452 IIRC.

When I first began exploring the world of tumble-lubing, I started with straight LLA, used too much, and hated it. Then I started thinning it down. Made it better and for lower velocity loads it was okay. When I tried pushing loads into higher velocities, I began experiencing both a loss of accuracy and an increase in leading.

I'd read about and talked to other casters about using JPW, carnauba, beeswax, etc, and I started experimenting with blends and ratios and pretty much settled on what I use now.

I'd either add some JPW to your alox, or I'd look at getting a stick of Lars lube, like some 2500, melting it down and either pain lubing or using it melted as a tumble-lube.

:coffee:

[EDK]

I'm getting back into 45 ACP after a 15 year+ period of 44 Special/mid range Magnums in RUGER single actions...scored a three screw 45 convertable that I pick up next week. There are 3 and 5 inch 625s from the 90s languishing in the safe also.

I found that water dropped eliminated a lot of leading problems in my 645s and the revolvers back then...used 5.8 of 231 with H&G 68s...the fashionable IPSC load. Use a minimal taper crimp in the auto; crimp heavier in the revolvers using moon clips. The extra 2% or so of tin helps fill out in most designs...much more is wasting your money on expensive tin.

Conventional wisdom is that autos headspace off the extractor, at least in the Browning derived designs. There is a "sweet spot" on crimp that helps accuracy and prevents leading by not sizing the boolits smaller...finding it can be a PITA, but worth the effort.

If it wasn't so d*** hot, I'd be cranking up the NOE 45 wadcutter mould I received last month. Probably wouldn't feed in an auto, but it should make some impressive holes in the targets. I sure like the two full wadcutter moulds in 44 caliber that I have. Blammer and GLL designed some good ones!

:cbpour::redneck::Fire: