People at the shooting range are giving me a stomach ache and a head ache.

[gray wolf]

The last two time I have been shooting at our club range and I pick the last two times not to exclude other times. But the last two were eye openers to the ignorance of people with fire arms and there inability or want ----to sit and listen for 5 seconds about what is going on with there equipment.
The range is here in Maine and many members are from surrounding states that visit for the summer. They come with there wives and kids and some visit the range alone. I have noticed the people from Mass. to be the worst, attitude wise
and attention span wise.
Gun handling is in the cellar ( do we still say cellar or is it basement now? )
Safety is marginal at best.
Cast in point and these are back to back and is what made me step back and think a little.
# 1 guy is shooting a tricked out AR 223 and can't hit his target at 50 yards.
His iron sights were on but not the scope. He did not know what brand of scope he had, needed to look at the box ( was a 3X9 night star ) Did not know it was a variable scope, did not no how to adjust the ocular lens, did not know that his 1/2
MOA scope adjustments were not 1/2 inch at 25 yards. He kept adjusting the scope and loosening the mounts and re tightening them ( never heard of lock tite )
When I offered some help his main worry was that he would not look like an expert in front of his friend.
This guy -- his scope and his attitude were a mess.
All he had to do was read the dam instructions.
Next guy had a bran new Browning 22 RF T-bolt At least $550.00
His choice for glass was a BSA sweet 22 scope.
he did not have a clue about eye relief, what the parallax adjustment was for
or why his site picture was fuzzy, and he was seeing tunnel vision.
They through this beautifully little rifle down on the wooden bench like it cost 2 bucks.
Again the same story--blame everything on the scope and the rifle, and horrible safety with the kids around the weapons.
To me this is clearly the new guys on the block with new guns and a suck butt attitude about them and the damage they can do.
Sometimes I think the no it alls really frost my rear, makes me want to limit gun sales ( all most )
I know it's just a rant and I can't do much--but I try.

Sam

[Longrange]

I understand your concerns.

I was a a range in Brownsville several months ago, and after witnessing several mishaps with other people on the range I talked to the owner. The conversation was basically that I will not be returning because I feel I should be wearing my Blaze Orange range Officer Vest (yes it is a tactical vest). As we were talking a bullet whizzed by our heads while were standing 200 feet behind the line. As I was leaving I observed a bullet hole in the car next to mine.

This is a members only range by the way.

Have not been back since.

[smilie=b:

[Maven]

Ron White is right when he says, "You can't fix stupid!" A piss poor attitude doesn't help matters either.

[Rocky Raab]

Ignorant, arrogant - and armed.

Yup, I'd beat feet, too.

[old turtle]

What can you expect from some one from Mass. They have some of the worst gun laws in the country. But, Alas it is not just there. I had to suggest to a range visitor, twice, not to handle his AR while I was down range. The range officer finely had him leave. To much TV which is where most of these types get their firearms information

[bigboredad]

there is a spot a little over a mile from where i live that I and several others shoot. It is on private land but the owner was cool about it as long as you picked up after yourself. well last week some kids decided to shoot some tracer rounds its been very dry the last month or so. Luckily only 70 acres burned but now no more shooting there I wonder why. Now I need to find a new place to shoot:groner:

[captaint]

Makes me wonder about the future of our sport. Hope there's someone in their future that they decide to listen to and get advice from. enjoy Mike

[JSH]

I quit being nice a few years back. When you try to be nice about it, they take it as you are kidding.......right? Signs up all over the place, does no good because even if the can read them they don't understand what it means.
Anymore I ask them once, then tell them the NEXT time as far as saftey and range rules. The rules apply to ALL, period.
I try not to be a range nazi.
I offer to help if i think I can help. I don't ever claim to be any kind of eggspurt.
I have seen scope on backwards and mounted wrong with the windage on the left side. That is fun to watch them try to adjust,lol.
As stated above you can't fix stupid.
I wear plugs and muffs most of the time and don't talk to much for the most part. Unless they are putting me or the club in danger.
jeff

[qajaq59]

There is a public range in Felsmere, FL that is probably the best I have ever seen. One swing of a muzzle off down range and the RO is right there to correct the offender. And the second swing the offender is gone. Luckily the private club range that I belong to now is just as good. All the rules are posted right there, and the guys I have met follow them. But if a muzzle was to swing my way I would not worry much about being quiet nor nice. I'd much rather be disliked then DEAD!

[Recluse]

Gray Wolf,

I gave up years ago trying to help intentional morons out with anything--guns, boats, airplanes. . . you name it. I just sit back and watch them destroy their property and shake my head.

If they ask for help or advice, it becomes an entirely different matter then. With a good attitude, I'll bend over backwards to help them out. I've ended up teaching more people about reloading this way.

The area where I will not sit still and be quiet is with safety. Like Jeff up above, when someone does something stupidly unsafe, I call them on it instantly. If their error is due to them being an obvious novice but they're otherwise not jacking around, I'm polite but firm.

If they're jackoffs trying to impress each other or someone else, I bring the Wrath of God down on them. This is where being ex-military and ex-law enforcement comes in handy as you have a trained, authority command voice and posture that generally brooks no resistance with normal people.

But yes, there have been an occasional tense moment now and then over the years, but what I've found--'least here in Texas--is that as soon as you call the alpha-hotels down, OTHER shooters will back you up to the nth degree if the crapheads want to get randy with you.

As long as they're not being unsafe, they can tear up their high-dollar toys all they want so far as I'm concerned.

Oh, and as you know--my bride is from Vacationland, and she is always reminding me why the (Maine) natives refer to them as M*******s.

:coffee:

[shooterg]

Our range is private(open to public during matches of course). Every member is required to attend a class and pass a test before getting the combination to the gate and a Range Badge. While we do not have full time RO, we have a Range Safety Committee comprised of all the Match Directors and others named by the Club Pres. They have authority to take a member's range badge - if they're just a little stupid, they retake the class and get a little buttchewing, maybe a suspension, really stupid, we kick 'em out. Only had to bounce 2 last year, but we still see evidence of others that need to go. I call it the 1% club. We have 360 members, probably 1% will NEVER think rules apply tyo them, hopefully, we catch 'em before they get us closed !

From what I've seen, I'd be leery of using a public range.(I'm glad they're there for the "good guys" that need 'em, though !)

[chboats]

I guess I'm lucky. The range where I shoot is open to the public but the ROs put up with very little where safety is concerned. As JSH stated ask them once, tell them the second time and the third time they are ask to leave. If everyone follows the rules it is a very relaxed place to shoot.
We still have our share of STUPID. Like new gun new scope. couldn't hit the target at 25 yds so moved the target out to 100 yds to see if that helped.

Carl

[NickSS]

My club isopen to the public only when a qualified RO is present. People have a safety briefing when the sign in and anyone seeing any unsafe behavior is encouraged to call an imeadiate cease fire and the RO deals with the situation. If the offender repeats after correction they are asked to leave. We also do not allow rapid uncontrolled fire (this is the biggest problem we have I have stopped many a shooter who wants to blaze away with a handgun or semi auto rifle but the rule is well posted and they get called on it by almost anyone and do not repeat. Funny thing is that the idiots who want to blaze away can't hit a bull in the butt when they are doing it.

[John 242]

This is kind of long... I guess I'm ranting again... at least it's on topic though...

I more or less stopped trying to help people at the range.
I'm not a shooting guru but I know enough to be safe and be somewhat successful after a day at the range. I tend keep my mouth shut and my eyes open.

At the public range I see plenty of handgun shooters that can’t keep their groups on a paper plate, shooting slow fire at 10m. Same thing with rifle shooters; they can’t get a 4 inch group at 25m. No problem, everybody needs to start somewhere. When I first started shooting I was in the same boat.
I guess what bothers me is the ‘cool factor’. It’s not about shooting skill anymore; the range is about showing off the latest gun or gear.
Some guys show up with $1000 plus dollar 1911s that won’t run and they can’t keep on target. Others show up with M4s that they can’t get zeroed. Again, no big deal, you’ve got to start somewhere, but the attitude seems to be that expensive guns and gear are more important than shooting skill. Many of those guys show up with a new gun just about every month… the gun of the month club… yet they’re not committed enough to learn to shoot what they already own.
To each his own… If they want to spend their money, let them. I just find it kind of funny.

You can’t tell those guys squat. I used to try to be helpful, but when I suggest something I get looks like I just dumped in their Cornflakes. I’m not much of a people person and won’t say anything unless that person really needs help.
I get the same looks at gun shops by both employees and patrons.

I hate going to the local gun shows because it seems like people are exceptionally rude. That old saying about an armed society being a polite society doesn’t seem to apply anymore. People will push their way through the aisles and in front of the tables. It’s ridiculous. It’s the Wal-Mart mentality.

To illustrate my point here is a post on a hunting forum in which a female huntress is asking for recommendations for a 1st hunting rifle. Several posters suggested an inexpensive .243 Win or .270 Win bolt action. She responds with:

“Yeah a .243 is nice and all but I want something with a little more take down to it. I can shoot my husband's R-25 which is a .308. And I have shot 30.06 and his 50 cal muzzleloader. I am not worried about price on the rifle because I want something that will last a long time with a very nice Nikon scope. I don't believe in going cheap on the important things in life.”
So someone then somewhat jokingly suggests several $3000 rifles and she responds with:

“Ok well I am going to say I want stay under $1,300. I want something that will make the men (and my husband) be jealous at the range and in the woods.”
Wow. Her priority is making men jealous at the range and in the woods?
Notice she down plays the .243 and asserts that she has “shot” a .30-06 and .308?

Shooting, at least in my mind, and being capable of competently handling a gun are two totally different things. I’m not saying she isn’t a competent shooter. What I am saying is that rifles that recoil less are usually easier for a novice to learn to shoot well.
Personally, I don’t like the recoil of my sporter weight .30-06 with full power factory ammo. I guess she’s a little tougher than I am. However, with reloads I can shoot 1 to 1 ½ inch groups at 100m with that $350 Wal-Mart gun (Savage) and the junky scope that came with it.
Anyway, I doubt I’ll be jealous of her anytime in the near future.

[AZ-Stew]

I love the guys who come out to "Sighting-In Days" at our range.

I've never seen a scope mounted backward, but I've seen them mounted with the elevation knob on the left and the windage on top. There's a fun project.

I've seen them try and try to get sighted in, only to find that a scope base screw was sheared off.

I've seen them shoot 55 rounds of of the three 20-round boxes of ammo they had before they asked for help. Sunday before the season started. And they work all week, with vacation starting Thursday before the Friday opening. Yeah, they can get to Wally-World and get some more ammo before Thursday, but they'll never have time to practice with it. I sight their rifle in for them with the five remaining rounds. Wonder how many animals they'll wound due to lack of practice.

I've heard, "How can the scope be THAT far off? I had it professionally mounted and bore sighted at Wal-Mart just yesterday."

I've seen someone ask for help at Wally-World, wanting info on the best "elk rifle", and being told by the "associate", "My uncle has one like this in .243. Works OK for deer. Ought to work GREAT for elk!"

But don't get me started...

Regards,

Stew

[gray wolf]

If a chick like that wants to get mens attention she needs a blaze orange G-string, and leave the guns alone--Eh.

[BarryinIN]

Just reading a couple of these posts reminds me of what my best friend said 20 years ago as we stood at a gun show looking on at amazement at some stunt:

"Sometimes we are our own worst enemy."

His point was that it was no wonder some people are out to get us gun people. Every time I go to the range and someone else is there, I expect to see some display that would turn off anyone who was middle ground on us. And this is a club range, not a public range, so it's better than most.

[Hardcast416taylor]

After reading all the above posts on the way people act on a range, either private or public. I used to be the indoor pistol RO as well as the rifle range RO for shoots and sight-in-days. I finally got fed up and pulled the pin on my RO whistle and quit. Been about 25 years since I`ve been on any range other than my own. If anybody asks to use my range there is a set of my rules they must adhere to or it`s hit the road time for them. As a "homie" in L.A. once commented to a cop after an "accidental drive by murder". "Dem bullets done got no eyes"!Robert

[Buckshot]

.............People (and that includes kids) don't know how to be humble. Humble is NOT a bad word. Not proud, haughty, nor arrogant or assertive. I suppose in this context I'm leaning more toward the inability to realize on a personal level that someone else may just happen to know more then you do about some things. Especially if something is new to you.

Besides the range there are lots of other places you can find examples, and it's probably 90% a male thing. "I don't need to ASK directions", or if putting something together, "I don't need to READ the directions". Today I was out running a few errands and I stopped into an auto parts store to pick up a couple new wiper blades. First of all I wanted cheap ones. We won't see any rain here in So. California until maybe November. I only needed them when I used the windshield washer, and the sun will eat them alive anyway.

On my '-01 Ford Sport Trac I run a 22" blade on the driver's side as it sweeps the entire height on that side, and an 18" on the passanger side. The book calls for 18" wipers in both locations. They were out of the $4.79, 22" wipers so I asked the guy at the counter if he had any more. He asked for the make and model of my vehicle, which (I suppose) MIGHT have somehow helped him answer my simple question, so I supplied the info.

Taping in his computer (I really miss that big counter long rack of books, don't you?) he said that it took 18" blades. So I explained my need for the 22" blade. Possibly you might believe the conversation that followed or maybe not, but he was really dead set against me buying an 18" and 22" wiper blade because his computer shows two 18" blades being required. He finally did go check and came out with a box of'em and I got one, paid for them and left. I'm sure he expected me to be back in sheepishly needing to exchange that 22' wiper for a 2nd 18" blade.

The only discouraging part to me was his bit of arrogance because he KNEW, as his computer screen was telling him so. This is versus the guy 40 years his senior in his faded jeans and mucho oil spotted T shirt (one of my shop T's). Now appearances can be decieveing but wiper blades aren't dangerous life threatening objects. If someone 40 years MY senior (they'd have to be 100 :-)) wanted to buy a 22" and a 18" wiper blade, I might assume they knew what they needed, or I might ask if it was really a 22" and 18" they needed, but I'd surely not get an attitude about being right and them being wrong.

Some people simply cannot stand to be wrong, and especially to have it pointed out. But there is a difference between being wrong and being stupid.

.............Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Aw Buck, now you hit 2 sore spots and I have to comment.

Humility. A non-existent form of thought these days. The only people of either sex I find humility in are those that have the life experience to know that they don;t know. IOW- we've made so many mistakes and wasted so much time that we finally said the heck with it and decided we really are dumber than a box of rocks.

Appearances. I will admit to being something of an appearance snob. Not clothes, haircut, car etc. No, I mean the eyes. I can pretty much judge a guy by his eyes and 10 seconds of conversation. I'm not always right (humility) but I'm close most of the time. What gets me is the people who see Buck or me wander into their store or whatever in crappy jeans and a semi clean tee shirt, driving a beater truck and probably with 6 days growth of beard and they automatically assume we're scum sucking welfare rats. We get zero service, consideration or respect. Meanwhile the drug dealing welfare rat standing next to me in his name brand clothes, driving his new car and flashing the gold jewlerly gets the Kings treatment.

Things like that drive me nuts.

BTW- after reading some of these posts I thank my stars I own half a section of land plus and have my own range.

[Hickory]

After reading these post, it conferms my belief that
seat belt laws are wrong and should be repealed.

Seat belt laws allow too many idiots to live when
they should not, putting the rest of us in danger.

[qajaq59]

the idiots who want to blaze away can't hit a bull in the butt when they are doing it. I don't generally try to irritate people on purpose. But I was at a range in PA one day and two guys were burning thru ammo by the hundreds. And they wouldn't to stop shooting long enough for anyone else to go down range to their targets. To make things worse they were shooting at a man size cut out only 50 yards away. After watching them go thru a ton of ammo and seeing no holes in the target I walked by and said, "You know, you could get that same effect with fire crackers." Then I left.

[stephen perry]

To some of us there are 2 distinct sets of Range procedures we follow.

The first being during competitive shooting. I have been a Shoot Director NBRSA/IBS for 11 years. During any form of competetion I have been a part of or an observer one thing becomes apparent. During the hours of competition the shoot program owns your behavior. One point some have a hard time with, no alcoholic beverages will be consumed during competition hours. I competed ATA for many years and was aware who shot toasted and who didn't. The rules at certain ranges were set aside to cater to some. One problem became apparent everytime some shooters came to the Range they were toasted, some I never saw without being. After competition the bar was open, a Western term most of us are familiar with. When it becomes an issue with you and the law is when you get behind the wheel. In my discipiline BR shooting we follow Range rules. Some ranges do not allow alcoholic beverages on the range at any time. Some do but only consumed after the competition is concluded. Also during competition there is a zero tolerance level in regards to safety. Some competitions will DQ you for one infraction. your done case your gun no refund. this might only apply for one day allowing you to compete the next but you if you if you are competeting for the overall championship for a weeks shooting you are done for that competition, then you only become elgible for daily awards. I have seen shoot directiors dq themselves for a safety violation, as it should be as safety applies to all.

The second set of procedures being open range procedures. Now some of us here are RSO's Range Safety Officers. Each club generally has several NRA traned RSO's so that durng range hours an RSO is there in addtion the RSO Range Officer to assisst in the safe operation of a Range. One thing you learn in RSO class is don't be the Range bully, don't micro manange every shooter. Be aware of un-safe procedures going on. At our Range those signing in to Shoot are only allowed in front of the safety fence. No alcoholic beverages on our Range during shooting hours. Un-safe behavior is corrected, if continues case the gun leave the facility no refund, makes no diiference when you sign up, the Safety Rules are in several locations. Ignorance is no excuse in regards to protecting everyones life at a shooting range.

Sounds harsh but it works most times. A Range sometimes gets caught with handloaders and gunsmiths that practice un-safe behavior. When something blows-up all that's left is the blood and guts that reminds others what safety is. Seen some of these accidents not looking forward to the next one.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[cajun shooter]

When I was a POST firearms instructor we would have a public sight in every year two weeks before hunting season. We did not allow them to shoot the gun themselves. We had myself and three other trained instructors who like myself were snipers. When we allowed the people to shoot their own rifles they had so many screw ups in a day that it was scary. They all had no idea what the proper way to sight in a scope was. When we did it with 3 or less shots and hand it back to them they were dumbfounded on how that was done. Well my very good friend and fellow range officer was shooting in a rifle next to me. All of a sudden I felt hot gases and the sensatition of being hit with hot metal. Chester was about 4 feet back from where he shot the rifle. I was bleeding from my right cheek and forehead. Chester had blood and powder burns all over his face.The rifle was a old Winchester and the bolt was blown. The owner of the rifle admitted that he was a reloader and could have overcharged a case when he first changed powders and was not sure if he adjusted the measure. Our injuries were minor and we were lucky that it was a good rifle and everything held as it was designed to. After that incident we put a huge ad in the Baton Rouge paper that we would no longer sight in rifles with reloads. We also started putting a heavy sandbag on top of the receiver before firing.

[qajaq59]

Only once the wife and I shot trap at a club with a bar. When we got on line, a guy that we had seen drinking while we were waiting, came out of the bar and got on line . The club's RO never said a word so we packed up our shot guns and left. I know the clubs can make money with the bars, but I still think they're a bad idea. And don't bother to blast me. It's my opinion and we're all entitled to one.

[451whitworth]

BTW- after reading some of these posts I thank my stars I own half a section of land plus and have my own range.
i never shot at a public or private range. once i stopped by a public one but when i observed how little actual shooting got done in the 1/2 hour i watched, i couldn't believe it. i would never get anything done at that pace. i feel for those RO. i too am fortunate i can repair to the family farm and shoot anytime as much as i want.

[rufracer]

The good thing about most (50%+) in-experienced, mocho people that are properlly embarassed at the range by someone who clearly knows better will either think things through and learn before returning, or wont return. After all, it is kindof a macho sport, and if there is one thing macho people dont like, its being embarassed. So I say, it is our duty to properly embarase these poor folks. Its in everyones best interest.;-)


Of corse I was wrong once before.

[qajaq59]

Of corse I was wrong once before. Yeah I know, you thought you had made a mistake but hadn't? :kidding:

[emorris]

Thats whats wrong today. It is hard to find someone that has expierence at anything thay they are doing. Sometimes I thank that it is not that people are not willing to listen to instructions, but instead they are actually unable to listen. People get wrapped up in their own life and doings, they forget about the other person(s) their actions are affecting. You see it everywhere from the range to driving. Public ranges should be more like the Police accademy. In my class we had a recruit muzzel everyone on the fireing line first to the left and then to the right. He was yelled at when he did it to the left, which caused he to muzzel to his right when he turned to look to see what the instructors were yelling at him about. Long story short he did many push ups and alot of running because of it.

[Echo]

We were shooting a warm-up match on the Clover range @ Ft. Sam. The Modern Pentathletes were there, preparing for whatever. These guys were outstanding athletes, pretty hyper, but generally knew squat about shooting, so were getting their training there. One of these pentathletes was shooting slow fire (.45) next to my pal Tank (he was built like one). We had been told not to talk to the pentathletes, but address their coach.

The pentathlete had a FTF, and turned to ask the coach what to do. In the process, he swept Tank with the loaded HB .45. Tank told the coach that his charge was acting in an unsafe manner, and he should instruct his charge as to correct procedure. Coach nodded, yeah, Yeah, and did whatever. Tank returned to engage the target. The pentathlete had another FTF, and swept Tank AGAIN. Tank turned faced the pentathlete, looked him straight in the eyes, and said 'Coach, tell your man that if he points his gun at me again, I'll kill him.'

And Tank was well-known to have no qualms about shooting off guns.

So it's not just on civilian ranges.

[trapper9260]

I have read the posts and I use to be from MAss . I move out of there in 95. Yes there is alot of morons there. I was brought up there . Now I live in Iowa and have my own range to shoot when I want. I did when I was in MAss . There was one time in MAss I was with my Dad (he had died in 90 ) was at the old sand pits and ther was 3 guys there and was shooting . One was shooting his 357 and the orthers was shoot guns. The one shooting the 357 ask my Dad if I like to shoot it he said no for the shape he was in Then ask me So I did and I got a 5" group but the gun was shooting about 10' to the left . I ask him if he want me to fix that for him I told him it is not shooting where I want he said no I will do it my self. Then ask I like to shoot the shot gun I am not good at clays and so I shoot at the clays the gun was a pump and try anorther shot and then Yes I miss. Then they told me I did not know you can shoot a pump that way. I told them if you miss with the first shot and have time try anorther shot. I shot better in the woods. My Dad taught me to do not waste your ammo use it to sight in your gun and test the ammo and use it when needed. Here In Iowa you have some nuts from the big citys that are morons. Some farmers do is look at the person plate to see what county they are from and then decide if they let them hunt on there land. That is the ones that dose ask.

[oldtoolsniper]

Tank ranges, missile ranges, mortar ranges, grenade ranges, demolition ranges, machine gun ranges, rifle ranges and worst of all pistol ranges. Muzzle awareness means you are aware of yours and every other swinging muzzle around you. Everyone is a Safety Officer on every range regardless of rank or privilege unsafe is unsafe and it needs to be instantly stopped.

Being polite to a safety violater is just asking for trouble. It happens and we have all done it, I know I have. Instant correction is the best and only course of action, not correcting it will only reinforce it as good behavior.

We can all learn a lot from our Dogs.

[Shooter6br]

I will not go to a public range. I was shooting at 100 yrd rifle range when in the corner of my eye i saw three guys walking toward the 25 pistol backstop( next to 100 rd backstop) firing as they walked toward the targets! I packed up fast and left.

[ghh3rd]

The outdoor gun club that I belong to has very strict safety rules.

When the cease fire is declared, everyone waits behind a painted line and the RO's look at every firearm to ensure that they are unloaded and the action is open. Once they declare the range Cold you are forbidden to touch anything on your bench. After tending to your target, you wait behind the line. If you are ready to leave, too bad, you wait until the range is Hot again before you grab your stuff.

There are always several RO's patrolling the shooters, looking for a safety problem. When they see one, they address it immediately with the offender, no BS accepted. They are the law and can boot you right out if they feel it's necessary.

Some outsiders have called them 'range nazis' but that's Ok with me, cause I like feeling safe at the range, and feel that my 13 yr old son is safe there too.

Randy

[qajaq59]

Quoted from Shooter6Br
I will not go to a public range. I was shooting at 100 yrd rifle range when in the corner of my eye i saw three guys walking toward the 25 pistol backstop( next to 100 rd backstop) firing as they walked toward the targets! I packed up fast and left.
That's it. I have seen some real idiots in my day, and I've been around a long while, but I couldn't top that one. I didn't think anyone ever born was that stupid!!!!!

[Shiloh]

Take charge of the range!!

The folks that own ranges know the price of a lawsuit. Usually includes monetary awards and range closure. THe anti's love it!!

Shiloh

[docone31]

Randy, that sounds like Hernando.
My wife and myself feel as safe downrange there as any place.
The kooks do not last long, and call them Range Nazis.
I watched them take a Walther away from a Lawyer at the range.
He was sitting at the range station, firing away, handing the magazine to his wife behind him to reload. He would swing his pistol all around the range at random intervals.
They stopped him once, removed his pistol on the second time. Third time he was ejected!
I like that. So does my wife.
They do not fool around with anything there, and are around you like an hawk. If you screw up, either it gets corrected, or you are gone.

[OutHuntn84]

I personally haven’t spent much time at public ranges, but those times I have been, have been a fairly pleasant experience. I think mainly cause I was out there with folks just as paranoid as I am about range safety. I have had more problems as a RO on private ranges teaching classes to civilians LEOs and military. I was teaching a combat shotgun course and had a fella who thought his pistol grip Mossberg doubled as a cane, pushed the dang barrel 2'' in the dirt and then wondered why he got his gun (and a piece of his rear) taken away. I always spend almost one hour before allowing ammo on the range going over range safety and procedures; even dry fire exercises once we get on the range, just to make sure the rules are understood. I always make it very clear that any safety violation is considered a threat to life and limb which authorizes me to utilize lethal force (only half joking). Usually I give on chance to discuss and correct the issue, after that immediate removal! Have only had a few ever test the waters on the subject.

[John 242]

When the cease fire is declared, everyone waits behind a painted line and the RO's look at every firearm to ensure that they are unloaded and the action is open. Once they declare the range Cold you are forbidden to touch anything on your bench. After tending to your target, you wait behind the line. If you are ready to leave, too bad, you wait until the range is Hot again before you grab your stuff.

Same here. My local range has almost exactly the same procedures.

You are supposed to read a posted list of rules and then sign to verify that you understand the rules. Despite having to sign saying that they understand, a huge number of people violate the rules and have to be corrected by the RSOs.
A good example is shooters moving forward of the painted line to mess with their weapons with people down range. It happens just about every time I go to shoot.

When signing onto the range your weapons are checked by an RSO to ensure that they are clear before you move to the line. One guy while being checked discharged his pistol into the ground in front of the table.

On the other hand, when I shoot at local matches it's a totally different atmosphere. Safety among our match shooters is excellent because like Mr. Perry said; if you violate the rules you pack your guns and become a spectator. You don’t get yelled at and no one freaks out. You’re simply asked to unload, show clear, move to the fumble table and pack your gun away.
If public ranges had the same strict enforcement that we have at our matches we’d all be much safer.
Novices are often the culprits, but not the only ones. I’ve seen experienced hunters and guys that only shoot unsupervised display horrible gun handling skills.

[John 242]

They stopped him once, removed his pistol on the second time. Third time he was ejected!
Personally I’d be happy if they sent a guy home after the first major safety violation.
I’m not trying to be mean, but the lesson has to be learned, apparently the hard way.

What’s a major violation?
I would say that flagging your fellow shooters would qualify as a major violation.
Just my thoughts…

[sirgknight]

oldtoolsniper has it right.....unsafe and irresponsible behavior should not be tolerated. Period. I'm retired from law enforcement and my shooting history was derived from both occupational and personal aspects. I have my own shooting range in my back yard, but over the past 45 years (including military) I spent many hours on a public range for qualification shooting. I can assure you that the Range Officers were never concerned about hurting anyone's feelings if any unsafe technique was detected. As ol' Barney would say: "it was nipped in the bud!". The unsafe technique was addressed and any further infraction meant immediate removal from the range, preferably voluntarily, but involuntarily if necessary. When unsafe conduct is observed on a public range where no supervision or authority is present, the only clear choice for me is to pack up and leave. It would not seem wise to me to get into a possible verbal confrontation with someone who has already proved to be an idiot.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

it's great reading these posts.
I've been going to the range (private Club)
on weekday mornings (instead of weekends)
for years now, ususally no one else is out there.
I've always told myself I like to shoot alone.
I guess now I recall why:razz:
Jon

[No_1]

I have read in other threads that the most important piece of safety gear we own is located between our ears. Those around us at the range who are uneducated or too smart to learn from others are the ones that always scare me. I especially hate the last few days before opening day to the point where I don't go to the range until they are all in the field. It is hard to believe those that we observe in unsafe actions at the range can be depended on to make good choices when their heart is jumping out of their chest while out in the field.

Robert

[Thumbcocker]

Heck who needs practice or instruction. All you have to do is watch tv or movies and hang enough stuff on your tactical, precision, spetznatz, covert ops, cammo, hypervelocity, death ray pistol and you can't miss. It a right you have as an American chairborn commando and mastercard holder. Practice and technique take time away from video games and gets boooooring. If you miss you just need more stuff on your firearm and more expensive ammo.

[oldtoolsniper]

Outhuntn84
I would cease fire the range in the picture under your name. I see two people in unsafe positions. You engage on line or your weapon is pointed to the sky until you gain correct position. The guy in the back with the mounted rifle is right handed, when he trips and falls he will most likely break the fall with his left hand and the rifle in his right hand with trigger finger engaged will be pointed at? I would imagine the muzzle blast is a little uncomfortable to the guys in front of the muzzle. The lack of helmets and everyone standing tells me it is a static range and therefore training.

[whisler]

I believe the lack of humility in our young people these days comes from the theory used in the educational system. Mainly "everyone's a winner, no one ever loses, and self-esteem is everything." Knowledge and good performance take a back seat to self- esteem. This theory makes them very resistant to acknowledging that they may be wrong or don't know something.
Parents also seem to teach their children that they are Number One in the world, which tends to be a problem when they meet someone else who thinks they are Number One.
Now as for older folks, I have no explanation except stupidity.

[willk]

Though Brenda Lea and I were not on the range when it happened, one of the posts at the silhouette shooting stands (where we shoot from) has been shot. The shooter had to shoot directly down the firing line to hit it. If we had been on the range, it is very likely we might have been hit.

[OutHuntn84]

Oldtoolsniper,
Thanks for the critique ;-) Yes you are correct this was static LEO training and yes you are absolutley correct at your local range under usual conditions this would be a cease fire, pack your gear and hit the road offence, but this being a closed range for training exercises, was not the case. I'm certain that you being a Marine can understand that in a SHTF scenario, when advancing into an unknown or dangerous area, you do not want your partner standing there with his gun in the air while he is supposed to be covering you and to survive these dangerous scenarios you must train for them.

[Hardcast416taylor]

The absolute worst thing that I heard about and later saw the damage of was done on a rifle range by 4 senior members of the club. These gents were lickered up pretty good. They were hanging 1/2 sticks of dynamite from tree limbs with a string and shooting at them from the 100 yd. benches. Police were called by the range neighbors and arrested the sots. We damn near lost the club over that fiasco. There used to be some nice maple trees along the side of the range, not after they were thru. This is one of the reasons I quit that club and have never been back. Surprisingly the club is still in existence.Robert

[oldtoolsniper]

I understand that friendly fire is not. Allow Marines to do it incorrectly in training and they will do it that way when it counts. When that paper target starts shooting back the only thing you have to depend on is the way you trained before your targets shot back.

This was a problem I dealt with on Marine Corps ranges with Marines and the FBI as well as other Law Enforcement types. Tommy Tactical is not the guy you want beside you no matter what the situation.

We trained with sub-munition paintball conversion kits in our weapons and they sting when they hit, it becomes an instant unsafe situation if safety is not enforced at all times before those little paintballs are introduced. The paintballs quickly shift everyones thoughts to getting away from the little buggers not the guy beside you. It teaches everyone to be aware of what is happening around them. The video's after word show just how easy mistakes are made. those are only paintballs.

There are no situations that permit the unsafe handling of firearms.

[leadman]

So many negative comments. How about a good one?? I was at the public range here and a young man and his wife came and occupied the bench next to me. He looked to be a Marine and was firing an AR and a couple semi-auto pistols. He was safe as was his wife.
Both were shooting well and we chatted a little on breaks.
He pulls out a new Savage scoped hunting rifle and is obviously having problems. I hold back and he is looking frustrated. I offer to help him and he gladly accepts! I explain how to sight in the scope and he listens! We had that rifle shooting fine in no time. He actually thanked me before they left for explaining how to sight in a scope as he had never done it before.
He had just returned from his second tour in Irag.

[azcruiser]

Went to a indoor range Action Sport Landolt AG- Interlaken, Switzerland range and BAR had a great and safe time. Couple co his customers even went home and came back with their SIG550
full auto rifles and let me shoot them. It's now the booze it's the fools stupid is as stupid does

[nes4ever69]

at one public range i shot at, i almost shot a guy once. took aim, pulled the hammer back, right when i was getting ready to sqeeze the trigger he ran out right in front of me. i caught it in time to catch the hammer and raise my gun up to the sky. needless to say, i had a talk with and explain how the 325 grn. barnes xtb (i think thats what its called) bullet from my .500 magnum would have ensured he was dead.

the one thing i cant understand is why do people go shooting with out any hearing protection, and complain the guns hurt their ears.

one public range we had i was watching people skeet shooting at the pistol range over people at the rifle range. of coarse, people at that range also felt that if your 10 feet from their target, why should they stop shooting when your 10 feet away.

of coarse the best one's were the people shooting in front of the fireing line, down range, 5 feet from the target. i told them they cant do that for safty reasons and they are holding up anyone else that wanted to shoot. i was told a nice F O from them. when they got behind the firing line, i tested my ammo, hit my target from 30 feet, they left the range with a nice polite attitude.

but what can you expect with no range officer, open to anyone with a gun. of coarse it would be nicer if the gun clubs here didnt charge anywere from $150 to $300 a year with range fees.

but nothing, nothing was more fun then the "tactical guy's" dressed in full combat gear, face paint, minimum 3-5 pistols on them, minimum 15 clips/magazines straped to them, an ar or ak-47, and bragging how they hit the target that is 3 to 5 feet away. or my favorit is when they shoot whatever target is down range cause its down range and it is fair game and you will be thanking them later cause when it hits the fan their traing will have paid off. i always made them mad with the comment, paper doesnt shoot back.

[Recluse]

I'm certain that you being a Marine can understand that in a SHTF scenario, when advancing into an unknown or dangerous area, you do not want your partner standing there with his gun in the air while he is supposed to be covering you and to survive these dangerous scenarios you must train for them.

Actually, and this isn't meant to come across like "piling on" or "smart alecky," but on our USMS SOG team, we DID keep weapons pointed in safe direction in SHTF situations. We did it in the military religiously.

Now, it's been over three decades since, but nobody but nobody liked being point man knowing that the guns behind you were aimed inches from your back while you were squeezing through a narrow door or hallway.

Ain't nothing friendly about being capped by friendly fire.

:coffee:

[qajaq59]

One thing that bothers me is that not all the ones doing stupid things are young. Kids I could forgive because the have a little bit of an excuse. But by the time you're my age you should know better. And a lot of the things I've seen over the years were done by the older guys who have grown sloppy over the years. Especially with the "swinging muzzles all over the place" routine. Shooting someone is like hitting them with a bus. You only have to do it once to have a real screw up.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
This is why when I am in the NORTH there I plan my range visits on Monday morning. Normally I am the only one there. I do make other trips during the week to test a certain load but for my weekly outing with some serious shooting in mind I go when the masses are somewhere else.
That is no problem down here in Peru... I have my own private hillside out in the desert and no humans to see or contend with. Just a family of Burrowing Owls and a few lizards... utterly marvelous.
Mike in Peru

[Tazman1602]

GW I could post volumes on the subject..............but as I get older I've found the ONLY solution to idiots like that is...................

.................simply walk away and come back when they are not around. They ain't about to listen.

Last time that happened to me we were at the range about ten years ago and a guy muzzle swept my wife, I was within arms reach and took the rifle from his hands and told him if he ever muzzle swept my wife again he was going to eat the rifle.

...........he didn't even know what "muzzle sweep" was, ain't been back since.

Art

[stephen perry]

Today about an hour from now I will go to WEGC for the second Friday in a row. West End is in Lytle Creek Cyn about 8 mi North of the Fontana Motor Speedway (NASCAR). This was my main range for 15 years for rifle shooting starting back in 1971. I left it back in 1986 when I joined Inland, San Gabriel, and Angeles Ranges. West End was not fitting my needs for benchrest shooting, I needed a 200 and concrete benches.

West End has made improvements now 44 benches some will be concrete and is getting close to finishing their 200 line, I will help them establish 200 with my survey equipment. The membership is $50/yr and $5/day, used to be 50 cent a day for many years. This is not for a full membership that is 10 times the yearly rate. I don't need another membership. For long range I will go to the other Lytle Creek Range for 200/300. For longer range I go to to Pala or Burbank range out to 600.

We do have some good facilities in So Cal for rifle shooting. Today I will shoot my 6x47 Rem, Lyman 20x scope and my .223, Weaver 10x scope. I shoot jacketed and Cast in both. Today will be jacketed. For Cast I have a new SAECO 87 grn bullet I will shoot and for .223 I have a new Lyman 225646 60 grn bullet that I will try. Today will be a 25 yd sight-in and some 100 yd groups. Supposed to be 105 deg today, I worked in this weather all week not going to miss my shooting day for some toasty weather. I shot many years of this 100+ weather for ATA.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

This thread is PRECISELY why I don't shoot at a range! Thank the good Lord I am fortunate enough to have my own 750 yd range! I know they ALL aren't bad, but this thread gives me chills...

[Wayne Smith]

Only once the wife and I shot trap at a club with a bar. When we got on line, a guy that we had seen drinking while we were waiting, came out of the bar and got on line . The club's RO never said a word so we packed up our shot guns and left. I know the clubs can make money with the bars, but I still think they're a bad idea. And don't bother to blast me. It's my opinion and we're all entitled to one.

My God! That's the first time I've ever heard of a range with a bar. Sounds like the original bad idea to me.

[theperfessor]

Alcohol and guns don't mix.

[walltube]

To answer your question "How about a good one?" I have a few to offer.

My range of choice is Louisiana's Honey Island Shooting Range located in the 'Honey Island Swamp Wildlife Refuge' just south of the MS\LA State lines. The RSO staff is superb. They fit everyone's good comment here of what a RSO is and should be. All mature responsible men & women, mostly retired military; retired\still working Cops. A little bit of conversation with any RSO there, and one gets the impression most have seen the elephant. Somewhere, someplace. They can spot a wannabe ninja, curious novice, know-it-all-incompetant-parent with impressionable child in tow, and assortted morons of every stripe at a glance.

An RSO will greet these oncomers as they approach the line with at first a set of questions followed by a lecture of what is and what is not tolerated. Should the oncomers suffer a memory lapse once on the line, a fine rendition of R. Lee Ermy will ensue. I love it! :)

4H type and Church sponsored youth groups have been the most polite, well disciplined and courteous folks to visit the rifle range. The youths in their respective adult's charge are a pleasure to view. When curiosity piques about that old guy's "odd looking bullets", an adult will first approach Mr. OldGuy asking if it would be a bother to entertain a 1000 questions. Let me tell you, I am so honored. There is no group onslaught but rather each kid asking in turn. The adults in charge are carefull to not allow the kids to take away his "range time" and intrude on Mr.OldGuy's hospitallity. As if I couldn't spare the time....

Yeah Fellers, there is hope and there are fine responsible adults teaching young folks courteous, responsible thinking. I see this type activity mostly in the oft disparaged "Bible Belt" areas than the so called 'progressive' places.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it..:)
Ya'll have a good wk. end.

Wt.

[ghh3rd]

I was re-reading this post and just remembered my sons first experience at the indoor range. He had never fired a gun, and before I handed him my Ruger Mark III .22 I explained the rules, emphasizing the importance of keeping the muzzle pointed downrange at all times.

He took aim, and squeezed off his first shot, ever. The empty case spun into the air and fell back down, directly on his exposed neck/shoulder (he had a T-Shirt on). He started doing a dance, spinning around with the muzzle going everywhere but downrange, his finger still on the trigger!

Everyone was moving for cover. He learned from that experience, and very negative reactions from everyone, and fortunately not by shooting someone. Now I have to work on my brother-in-laws kid -- I recently glanced in his direction just in time to see him cock a BB rifle, point it at me from about 25 ft away and pull the trigger, all in one fluid motion. His explanation was "I shook it to be sure it was empty!".

[Canuck Bob]

In my youth we in Canada were trained by two generations of World War 1 and 2 vets. They had a deep seated resect for the muzzle of a gun and were immediate in thier discipline of us kids.

[1Shirt]

Someplace along the line, it seems like range manners disappeared along with politness and common sense. Lots of war stories here, and thankfully, I can only equate to a small number of them. Most at my range are decent, safe, and common sense shooters. That said, most of the range events occur on weekends, and my weekend business keeps me from participating in them. However, I like to get to the range as early as possible, pull off my first round at 8:00 which is when the range is officially open, and be gone by 10:00. Seldom have other shooters before 9-9:30. Biggest gripe is the individual who will put a grand into a rifle, and not buy a spotting scope, and want to go down range after every 5 shots to check his target. One that I remember most distinctly however was a yahoo who showed up on a range that I used to belong to with an AK-47 and two or three bannana mags. He asked if he had to set up a target or if he could just shoot at the burm. He fired off two full mags at the burm and then reached up and grabbed the bbl right behind the front sight. I think it was just about hot enough to have the metal change color. You could almost hear the meat on the palm of his hand sizzle, and the war whoop he let out was unique.
Hand started to blister immediately, and he packed up and left immediately, driving one handed and with tears rolling down his cheek. Never saw him again. Guess that's one of the reason that cheap surplus ammo and surplus mil semi autos never had any appeal to me. It was memorable however, and my son in law and I who were the only other shooters on the range will never forget it!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[sniper]

Unfortunately, "cool and tactical" seem to be the rule now, rather than knowleldgeable gun handling.

Any of us can be guilty of a lapse in judgement, like me. our range is well-run, and the officers, volunteers for the most part, are good fellows. The Yahoos, who like the authority, and making fun of what and how others shoot, thankfully don't last long.

The range officer had just called cease fire, and me, brain in neutral, headed downrange immediately, before the weapons were declared clear, and the range open. They caught me, and there was an immediate attitude adjustment session. Embarrassing, but necessary. I haven't made that mistake again. I think it's called "situational awareness".

It is easy to see where people learn their carelessness. Watch any of the hunting or gun shows on TV. Most show fairly good gun-handling, but every once in a while..particularly on the one hosted by the retired Marine Cunnel Suh ... where the heads of firearms-related businesses go to Africa just like regular people. You will see a muzzle sweep at least once, guaranteed. Of course, what can you expect from a bunch of business majors and accountants?

I was at a range at a well-known gun store, and there were two scruffily-uniformed female employees of a security company on one side of me, and a young man on the other. I carefully watched the two dollies, who could hit the target, but that was about all. I packed up and left when the young man put a bullet hole in my target. I have never been back. Problem is, economical shooting ranges are few and far between.

[Trey45]

A range I used to shoot at in Virginia allowed shotguns to be fired at the 25 yard line, some yahoo was pumping away with one of the pistol gripped long barrel abominations that hold 10 or so shotgun shells. Just blamblamblamblam with no sense of where he was hitting. The RO came down and saw him chewing up the BRAND NEW salt treated wood they had just installed around the steel girder baffle supports, yes of course you expect to get some bullet holes in it from time to time, but this guy had all but completely destroyed this brand new wood. The RO talked to the guy about it, more or less telling him he was done and not just for the day but forever, the guy "accidentally" swept the RO at the waste with the muzzle of the shotgun, the RO acted faster than I have ever seen, in one smooth motion he had the guys shotgun in his own hands and cycled the action open, out popped an unfired shell. The RO was LIVID to say the least. The yahoo was escorted off site and told to never return.

This same range about 2 years before the above mentioned stupidity happened I was at the 50 yard line shooting my Henry 22 lever gun, about 5 chairs down is where the 100 yard line began, some yahoo wearing his hunting duds was sighting in some high powered rifle, no idea what it was, just that it looked like it kicked pretty good and was louder than everything else on the line. This guy gets up and still holding the rifle adjusts something on the bench, sweeping everyone to his left with the muzzle of his rifle, then turns around to get something and sweeps everyone to his right, then sits down again, puts the rifle on the sandbags, aims and pulls the trigger, not even having to take the safety off or cycle the bolt. He swept everyone with a loaded and safety off rifle! I got the RO and told him to keep an eye on the yahoo, told him why and went back to shooting. Shortly after the yahoo sweeps to his left, the RO had a nice long talk with him about it. Yahoo goes back to shooting and SWEEPS TO HIS LEFT AGAIN! This time the RO escorted him off the property after telling him to never return.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I can't stand it when at gun shops and people think they can sweep me with unloaded guns. I don't give a darn if it is loaded or not...DON'T point it at me!

[8mm]

I was unaware that place of birth or residence makes one more or less prone to unsafe handling of firearms. Until now I thought it was just ignorance or stupidity. A provincial attitude that "those people from ______ are the worst", avoids the fundamental issue that transgressions of firearms safety rules exists because it is tolerated.

I noticed that most of these complaints takes place in a structured or club setting. That is no surprise to me as I have observed it in every club I have belonged to. I have complained to club officers with little success that safety violations without some form of sanctions opens the door to potential injury, death, and/or litigation. Thus far I have only seen "puffball" enforcement of club safety rules. My own recommendations for infractions was: first time results in a "rug dance" before the executive board and a suspension, second time you are out. Too harsh?

The result is that I schedule my range visits when there is no crowd, and I always avoid weekends. A surrender to the mindless masses? Perhaps. The fact that our sport is endangered by slob shooters and slob hunters should encourage all of us who wish to preserve it to practice "zero tolerance"!

[XWrench3]

makes me really glad that i go shooting to the woods, by myself! no one to worry about except a few who may be riding horses, or hiking. and i see those about twice a year. also why i usually go during the week days. less people to contend with.

[Trey45]

Since I have moved to NC, I have established a nice little range in the swamp behind my house, I don't have to worry about anyone sweeping me with a muzzle now, only one guy goes with me, and the only reason he gets to go is I trust him not to accidentally or otherwise point a muzzle at me.
The only trade off it seems is I got rid of having to shoot with idiots, and now have to shoot with tics and skeeters, but they make a spray for that, now if they only made a spray for idiots.......

[oldtoolsniper]

Here is a perspective from a different view. I do security for the concerts that come to town. This Friday Ted Nugent will be playing. Just call me an RSO for concerts. As a retired Marine of 23 years I have had a little training in how to deal with un-ruly people. Here is how I see the job that I do. You paid money to come to the concert and have a good time. You did not pay that money to have some jerk ruin your night in whatever way he feels is appropriate. I want you to come back to another concert and have a good time because you stayed between the lines and did not infringe on anyone else and their good time. It’s simple, party, dance, drink, and have a good time, it’s what you paid for. I will call it one of your rights. When someone else decides they are more important than your rights or your safety and they attempt to impose their way or an unsafe condition on you they are asking you to give up your rights. Why would you give up your rights?

As one of the concert RSO’s I see a lot and I know what to look for but we miss stuff. I have chosen to do the job so you can enjoy yourself within reason and you will come back. Don’t pack up your family and friends and leave because of some jerk. Come and tell me what has happened and two things will occur. I will apologize to you for not seeing what happened. I will have my eyes on the jerk from that point forward. Go back and enjoy your evening knowing the RSO’s have your back. We will issue a warning, escort the offender out, or go to the floor if need be and you can rest assured one way or another that offender will be corrected or gone.

The corps of our security team are all in their late fortes. All of us are from Law enforcement or military backgrounds and we are there to protect you rights. We don’t get paid to fight; we get paid to protect your right to have a good and safe time. When you abide by the rules we want you back. When you infringe upon the well being and safety of others we want you gone and hopefully you never come back.

In every crowd there are those who feel they can do whatever they want because no one will say anything. It is our politically correct, everybody is a winner, don’t upset anyone, welfare driven lack of self control society that promotes it. Myself and my fellow RSO’s do not expect you to ruin you evening dealing with some jerk, let us know and we will deal with. We are here and have chosen to do what we are doing for that very reason. We are there for you.

Now just switch all of that to being your favorite range and thank your RSO on the way out for having your back.

[Fugowii]

What can you expect from some one from Mass. They have some of the worst gun laws in the country. But, Alas it is not just there. I had to suggest to a range visitor, twice, not to handle his AR while I was down range. The range officer finely had him leave. To much TV which is where most of these types get their firearms information

It has nothing to do with the State and everything to do with the person. You can
and should expect a lot from someone from MA. Please don't profile all MA residents
for the actions of a few losers. I should expect everyone from your State to be
perfect and responsible gun owners?

[jtwodogs]

I was at my "Smiths" shop the other day when a guy came in to pick up his Rossi 38 that someone had home cobbled up. First the smith was out of his shop and he is a friend of mine so he told me to go in, have a seat, and turn the fan on, and he would be right back, well this joker walks in and immediatley heads to the smiths work bench and starts to pick up parts, I'm like, I don't think he would want you to do that. He then proceeds to find his gun and at point blank range picks it up points it in my direction and starts pulling the trigger I get up and move, and he is like "Oh, I am sorry I always forget that" I guess he saw the look on my face, well I sit back down and I will be daggummed if he does not do the same thing again, this time I think he knows there is going to be trouble, he did not hang around much longer. I am all for gun rights, but I told my friend there should be an IQ test were you should at least score above a morons IQ to own a gun.

[miestro_jerry]

One of the local gun clubs thatwanted me to be a member showed me a lot of stupid.

The president of the club was shooting clays with no hearing protection.

Then while I was firing on the rifle range, this same president pulled out a can of beer, opened it, started to drink it and then tried to talk to me while I was shooting.

Needless to say, I am no longer a member of that club.

Jerry

[mpmarty]

Alcohol and guns don't mix.

Works well to degrease an action before duracoating.