My first casting session...

[CiDirkona]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAxNTcuanBn.jpg

I had my first casing session tonight. I took my sweet time and learned quite a few things. Above is the result of my first session, only half of which are definitely usable.

The pile on the top left are what I looked over and thought looked 'good.'

The top right pile is the 'frosted' pile that I'm not sure what to do with. Can I shoot them?

The ones in the middle had slight folds right on the bearing. Can I use these or should they be melted down?

The ones on the bottom are obvious errors.

I also noticed that the furthest of the two holes (Lee 120gr TC lube groove,) the left side mold didn't want to let go of the bullet and I had to hit the bullet itself to get it out. I'm guessing I'll need to do the lee-menting thing to this and smooth it out? I did forget to 'soot' the mold before I used it -- I'm not sure if that'll have anything to do with it.

When scooping out the clips, I did notice quite a bit of grey lumpy metalic stuff between the clips which I figured was the antimony or tin trying to escape from me, so I tried to pick it out the best I could and put it back, and just scoop the black sooty stuff out. I could definitely tell the difference in the lead pool surface before and after fluxing with small chunks of tealight candles.

I can also definitely see the benefit of getting a bottom pour furnace and 6 banger mold too, this did take a while, and swinging a stick at molten lead didn't seem to comforting to me...

[Goatlips]

CiDirkona, in my VERY humble opinion, even the finned ones can be shot for practice, or for Cowboy stuff. The frosted ones, some say, will hold a bit more lube than the shiny ones. Great work for a first session, and not bad for a hundredth session! Keep it up!

(But don't smelt in yer casting pot, if indeed you are.. )

Goatlips

[CiDirkona]

Thanks for the compliments. I've been reading on these forums for sometime, and recently asking questions. Some of the finned ones show that the two halves of the press weren't lined up, which makes me a bit nervous for weight and alignment, but I did get a lee sizer, so I guess that'll fix up some of those issues, and I can always weigh them to make sure they're decently in spec.

Will the frosted ones shoot ok? I'm planning on doing the Recluse 45/45/10 mix at first, maybe/eventually getting around to that pan lubing jig thing I've been OCD-ing about...

I've been to every thrift store in 20 miles (at least two dozen) and could only find one single cast iron pot. Apparently, they're not as common in the southwest as they are on the east cost and midwest?? I've found a few in town, but they're nutty expensive. The agri-supply place online has 'em, but they're out of stock of the one I need until August. So what's the deal with smelting in my casting pot? I got it as clean as I could -- is that not good enough? I did find two with inclusions that I threw into the 'bad' pile, but I was sure to scrape the crust layer off the top before scooping a pour into the mold. I've got one of those fancy lyman ladels coming in the mail, but the casting itch was getting to me, so I made do with my minimalist Lee ladle. :)

I don't shoot cowboy anything as of yet, really just stick with Steel Challenge and USPSA. My wife has a taste for collecting children as I do guns, so I need to keep an eye on the 'hobby' budget as best I can, thus the casting for continuance of sporting. (Now if only I could get her to sell one or two when the AC/tires/water heater/lungs need replacement...) (just kidding of course...)

Any advice on getting my left furthest mold from releasing it's deathgrip on my boolits??

[CiDirkona]

BTW, this is my minimalist setup as of yet:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAxNTguanBn.jpg

$3 1-2qt? cast iron pot, Lee 2-cavity TC mold, some SS items I borrowed from my own kitchen, a lee craptacular ladle, and an $8 Walgreens electric burner. I'm smelting and casting from the same pot right now, hoping to find a second/larger pot soon/eventually though -- or maybe one of those bottom pour lee furnaces if my tires/wheels don't cost too much. I definitely wouldn't smelt in a bottom pour furnace, but guessed it wouldn't matter if I were ladle casting?

[AzShooter]

Looks good. I just ordered that mold and hope my first session goes as well.

[Bret4207]

Okay, you done pretty good. The frosted ones are probably better boolits than the other ones, better fillout, sharper bands and base. Shoot them by all means. The ones with "folds" (wrinkles) will probably shoot okay at slose range for plinking, but wrinkles mean your mould was too cold. Cast faster. Spend less time looking at the dropped boolits and more time putting molten alloy in the mould.

BTW- you shouldn't be "swinging a stick at molten lead". That stick shouldn't be moving until the sprue has "flashed over", meaning it's solidified. Better to wait a second longer than to open too soon. That's a good way to swear alloy on your blocks.

I see no issue with your current set up. And don't be rushing to a 6 cav right off the bat. Learn to make perfect boolits before you do anything else.

[stephen perry]

Dead is dead when hit by a cast bullet. Sometime take a look at some of the Revolutionary and Civil War bullets that are recovered every year, yours look better than those. Once you get control of your pot you will cast some good looking bullets. Lower the temp on your pot. Buy a thermometer, any stainless thermo that goes at least to 800 deg will work fine. Keep a full pot of metal stir your mix skim off the dross and pitch it in your trash can, flux with what use I flux with paraffin wax every half hour and stir regularly.

Nothing wrong with a dipping pot. I been using one for 47 years. I also have a bottom pour I use for large cavity molds, 4 and 6 cavity. Read some, the Lyman Casting manuals are where most get started, the RCBS Casting book is good too.. Stay with one mold for say 6 months before you move on, no hurry to learn properly.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[buckbeans]

The problem with smelting in your furnace is that if enough sludge gets into the spigot it will drip, drip, drip.....

PM sent to Cidirkona

[Wayne Smith]

No problem smelting in your casting pot if it isn't a bottom pour, like yours and mine. Get yourself a decent (Lyman/RCBS) ladle and go to it! I've been doing it that way for years, never had a bottom pour. And I've been smelting in the same pot for years, too.

[jmsj]

CiDirkona,
From what I can see from the pictures, the keepers look fine. Frosted bullets are fine, as long as they are consistent. After you tumble lube you won't be able to notice the difference between frosted and shiney boolits. Recluse's method and lube recipe is really great. Just read and follow his sticky and life will be good.
I totally understand balancing the family/household/shooting budget thing. I am lucky that at work I oversee a metal working/welding shop. Many of the casting tools I use I have been able to build out of the metal from the scrap pile.

[qajaq59]

A stainless steel pot will do until you can find a cast iron one. Just don't use aluminum.

[EMC45]

I havt the exact cast iron pot for smelting. I have a Lee 10lb bottom pour for casting though. I cast a bunch of the same bullet this weekend. The 120gr. TC Lee bullet shoots well out of my HP.

[MtGun44]

Frosted is fine, and as Bret said, may very well have better fillout due to being hotter. Wrinkles are likely too cold. Work into a consistent speed, keeping metal moving into
the mold to keep temp up.

Looking good! Good start. Now you can work on consistency, then steadily increase your
speed.

Size those to .358 or .357 and lube with real lube and you will be well on the way to
a good 9mm load. That is a very good design. Some Lee designs have not worked
at all for me, but this is one of their best, IMO.

Bill

[CiDirkona]

Thanks for the kind words, encouragement and advice everyone!

I did buy a Lyman ladle, but it's not here yet.

I bought a Lee 356 sizer. Should I not use it and order a 357 or 358 instead? I haven't slugged my bore, but plan to in the near future.

[sirgknight]

I used the same little ladle for almost a year before I upgraded to a bottom pour pot. There's nothing wrong at all with your setup. In fact, I would highly recommend newbies to go low and slow in the beginning. You'll learn a lot and will be able to carry it over to the upgrades. Your bullets look great, but the real glory in his endeavor is that if, for any reason, you don't like the looks of a bullet you can just plop it back into the melter; no worries! I too have to tap the mold handles to release the bullets, but try not to tap the mold itself. You'll find that not all mold sessions will go the same. Temperature and humidity are too variable. Just be patient and safe and you'll really enjoy casting. By the way, welcome to the forum.....a lot of great reading here.

[CiDirkona]

My main problem with the lee ladle is that the handle is straight, and my pot is so narrow that I couldn't get a good scoop of lead, never quite as full as I wanted. I'm tempted to give it a little bend so that I can get it down in the lead pool...

Oh - another interesting thing. Lee says that this is a 120gr mold, but all of my boolits are between 125.5 and 126.4. Is that normal?

[David2011]

CiDirkona, I love seeing new casters post their first casting sessions results.

We all like 'purty boolits' but like they already said, all of what you have here will shoot. If you did some comparison testing at 25 yards you might be surprised how well the wrinkled ones shoot. They're a little off balance but at short distances it won't matter. Once you get a grip on temperature maintenance you won't want to keep the wrinkled boolits.

Shiny boolits are produced at lower temps, casting slower. Some people keep a wet folded towel on the bench to help keep the mold from getting too hot while maintaining a higher production rate. (Search for "Speed Casting") Lightly frosted is fine. If you get way hot the boolits will crystallize and be brittle. You can tell the difference by looking and weighing them. Boolits cast very hot will weigh less. Variations from the mold weight are normal and affected by your alloy blend so just use good judgement when selecting a powder charge. Your're getting 126 grains +/- 0.5 gr so that's very consistent. Don't use a max charge recommended for a 120 gr boolit if you're getting closer to 126 grain boolits. You're probably aware, but be sure to use cast bullet load data. It is different from j-word data. For example, for 3.1 grains of Clays, Hodgdon claims 721 fps with a 158 gr XTP jacketed bullet and 871 fps for the same weight lead SWC. Welcome to casting!

David

[CiDirkona]

I tend to stay towards the lower end of book loads (although I've also been working up a major 9 load in MG CMJ.) My normal load is 4.0gr of HP38 at 1.125" with a Dardas 124gr round nose on top for a 131pf, so I'm actually quite pleased that these turned out to be around 125gr instead of 120gr -- hopefully no need to change my just-over-minor load! :)

[qajaq59]

Oh - another interesting thing. Lee says that this is a 120gr mold, but all of my boolits are between 125.5 and 126.4. Is that normal? Pretty much yes. Most molds vary a little depending on what alloy you have. Just take that into account when you load them, as David said. They'll be fine.

[MtGun44]

Unless you have slugged and are certain that the bore is .354 or .355, just smear some
lube on maybe 10 by hand, wiping off with a steel edge (anything straight and handy) or
pan lube & cake cut and try them unsized.

FIRST - load up a dummy round (full loading process WITHOUT primer and powder) and
see if it will chamber properly. If so, load up some with no sizing, just lube.

You will probably be rewarded with a nice group and no leading.

Bend the ladle, no mold ever hits the rated weight. As long as they are within somewhere
around 5% variation or less, they will be just fine. Base corner quality is the only real reason
to reject a boolit for any normal plinking purposes, esp at first. Once you get really good at
it, you can throw the ugly ones back into the pot. Until then, shoot them in lots which have
particular levels of perceived quality to learn what "flaws" actually will mess up a group. You
will likely be surprised.

Bill

[CiDirkona]

My only fear with not sizing them is that I don't trust them all to be consistently the same size otherwise, and running them through a sizer eliminates at least that possibility for error.

What's the importance of the base corner quality? How perfect does it have to be? I have one or two that have slight dents in them from being smacked with the stick to come out of the mold...

[CiDirkona]

I measured some of my boolits last night. Most of the handful I measured were 358 or 359, and a few were 360! I definitely don't think I can shoot these as-cast then... right? That seems WAY too big?

[Edubya]

Cidorkona, none of us can tell you the size that you should make them. Your barrel is the only one that has the answer to that. I have two XD 9mms and they are both individuals, one can take .3565" all day and the other wants .3575" to not lead.
Use some stick on wheel weights and cast up some of those boolits and drive them through the barrel. If it slugs to .354", your .356" sizer should be fine but don't hesitate to ream that sucker out to .357" or even .358" if necessary.

EW

[Flintlockrecord]

Any advice on getting my left furthest mold from releasing it's deathgrip on my boolits??[/QUOTE]

Take 1/4" nut and with the sprue plate open place it over the sticking cavity. Now pour a bullet thru the nut, filling the nut up too.

Open up the mold and remove the bullet and coat it with toothpaste.

Take a socket that fits the nut and a handle to suit the socket and put the bullet back in the mold and spin the socket/nut back and forth a few times. Don't overdo it.

You will be amazed how those boollits jump out of that mold now.

[Dutchman]

I don't know if anybody else suggested this but.....

There's absolutely no good reason to shoot anything but the BEST bullets you cast. That means you do multiple quality control inspections between dropping the bullet and loading the cartridges.

There are at least 3 separate inspection levels before you get to a loaded cartridge. Four or five levels of inspection are better.

Do not shoot mediocre bullets. Why? Your bullets reflect the care you take in this religious experience of molten lead alchemy. The time you take to inspect and cull your castings is directly proportionate to superior accuracy. More so with rifle bullets, I think.

Pin holes in the base of the bullet, failure to fill out the mold, wrinkles, specs of dross, etc. The more careful eye finds the flaws, all the flaws. Do not allow any flaws to be acceptable in your inspection protocol. Set high standards and the result will be much more satisfactory shooting.

Frosting - I never cast with only one mold so frosting usually isn't a factor. Introduce a second or third mold to the rotation or sequence and the frosting will disappear. By itself, frosting isn't terribly important other than to tell you your melt temp is too high or mold temp is too high. Consider it an indicator not a flaw.

Dutch

[CiDirkona]

Awesome advice guys -- thank you!

Looks like I'll be slugging my bore, cooling the mold more often and polishing it a bit.

If my normal bullet is a Dardas that measures out at 356 and I never get any leading with that diameter, is it safe to say that if replicate that diameter and hardness, and get adequate lubrication with 45/45/10 Recluse tumble lube, that I'll most likely not have any leading issues? It sure would be sweet to have it right the first time out!

[CiDirkona]

I tumble lubed these and got them loaded into cases yesterday at my normal load (4.0gr of HP38.) My standard round nose length is 1.125" which leaves about 1/32" of bearing sticking out of the case. This makes identifying Mak and 380 cases easy as there'll be a crapload of bearing exposed rather than a 'fit' looking round. The truncated cone (TC) bullets are about .040" shorter than the round nose (RN,) so at the standard 1.125" OAL, there was MASSIVE bearing sticking out, and too much internal volume. My first attempt at loading was a desire to again leave about 1/32" of exposed bearing just like my standard load, but this left the case at about 1.050", which my glock did not want to feed at all. I did the math for internal volume, and figured out that at 1.085, I'd be shorter of my standard OAL by .040, which would give me the same internal volume as my standard RN load, and there wasn't TOO much bearing exposed, although quite a bit more than I'm used to. Luckily, my glocks have LoneWolf barrels in them that don't start the rifling right at the bore, but rather about 1/2" in from the bore. I doubt this exposed bearing surface would work well in something like a CZ where the rifling goes all the way to the throat -- and no bearing surface extended from the case mouth is acceptable.

Additionally, 1.085" cycled by hand just fine in the glocks, so I'm hoping it will cycle just fine in live fire as well.

1.050": Too short, wouldn't feed.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAyMDUuanBn.jpg

Loaded at 1.085" OAL:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAyMDYuanBn.jpg

Tumble lubed, sized at .3565" dia and lubed again. I've since changed my lube forumla to be a bit harder and thinner, this was a bit more messy than is commonly accepted:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAxOTEuanBn.jpg

[CiDirkona]

Woohoo!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAyMzMuanBn.jpg

[Mattog22]

Very nice, did it have much leading?

[CiDirkona]

A tiny bit running along one side if each groove, but noting overly concerning. What causes that kind of problem causes that?

The bore was dirtier than I'm used to as well, but a single pass with the snake pulled that out.

[Mattog22]

I think you're probably doing ok. I think 9mm is pretty hard to get right. I'm not the one to ask, I just started and can't get my .45 not to lead lol.

[CiDirkona]

Session 2: 371 rounds.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAyNjEuanBn.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/Mobile%20Uploads/100MEDIA_IMAG0260.jpg

[Mattog22]

Looks pretty good!

[jsizemore]

CD, you can smoke your mold with a butane lighter/gas grill lighter. Deposits a light coat of soot where its directed.

When your corners are square on boolits, your mold is filling out properly. More consistent weight, and size. You can get your mold up to temp by sticking the corner in the melt. The solutions to getting square corners is to either increase the temp of your alloy or add tin/pewter to your alloy. About 1-2% by weight.

Your off to a great start. Good Luck

[CiDirkona]

Mine is a bevelled base boolit design (Lee 120gr TC) so that's been extra tricky. I also had a friend help me out by picking up and playing with my brand new mold and denting one of the corners in on the bevelled lip part just to make sure I had a good, clean challenge to start casting with. (He's no longer allowed in my garage...)

I yet to have any tin or anything extra to throw in the mix, and have been trying to do what I can out of straight (acquirable/cheap) wheel weights.

I tried smoking the mold this time with a butane lighter, and it seemed to help a little bit, but it also didn't leave much if any soot, so I may try a wooden match next time.

[Doby45]

I have that same mold in a 2 cavity and I think I am going to try to remove the bevel base with a razor blade. Get a good ole plain base boolit out of it.

[.357]

Congrats! that looks great! Looks like the casting bug has bitten you.

[CiDirkona]

Loaded up and ready to shoot:

http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAyNjUuanBn.jpg

[CiDirkona]

Smelting session number 2, with seashelly goodness provided by my sister-in-law. Traded some ammo I don't use (121pf FTL!!) for a sea-shell themed cast iron thingy that makes perfect disguised-as-harmless-stinky-soaps ingots.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAyNzEuanBn.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAyNjYuanBn.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAyNjcuanBn.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAyNzAuanBn.jpg

[Rusty Shackleford]

I'm diggin' the ignot molds, CiDirkona.

[CiDirkona]

Session 3, poison soaps all used up:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAzMDEuanBn.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/SU1BRzAzMDAuanBn.jpg