Fire-forming, what NOT to do

[omgb]

So, being the genius that I am, I decided to see if by fire-forming .375 Win cases from 30-30 I could get something close to a 38-55 in length. Now, I've never had to blow out a case before. I've necked .308 up to .358 and then fire-formed them shooting bullets but I've never taken an empty case and just blown it out to the new size. However, having never done something before is not grounds for never attempting it, or so I've been told. So, I got two cases out, deprimed them, primed them and then measured 4 grains of 700 X into each of them. One I topped with paper towels the other I filled with Maltomeal up to the shoulder then I put a plug of paper toweling in it. I wanted things to be quiet since I live in the city. I went into my shop and closed the door. Shot #1 was with the toweling alone. Not much noise and no change in the case. Now for shot number two. Again, I point the muzzle up and pull the trigger. This time I get a sharp report, some smoke and a 5 inch hole in the hanging ceiling of the shop. Oops! Dang, that was a mistake. Worse, the case is perfectly blown out and it is exactly the same length as factory .375 brass ie., not even close to 38-55. Oh well, Next time I'll point the muzzle down into the trash can.

[wills]

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=25&catid=36&step=2

Less damage

[garandsrus]

OMGB,

Great story! I fireformed my cases from 30-30 to 375 Win at the range! I didn't have nearly the excitement you did...

I was amazed also that the case was the correct length without any trimming. I read on another thread to use 6 gr Red Dot and Cream of Wheat (or anything similar). It worked well...

John

[onceabull]

Thanks ,Wills: I hadn't looked at Dave's place in a while,or flat missed seeing the "38-55 Basic"brass...Now there's some length !! Heard that his Original Length 38/55 stuff was "redrawn"(stretched) from factory issue stuff..Pricing differential seems to confirm the likelihood of that.. Onceabull

[AkMike]

You could just wait a bit til Starline comes out with their new 38-55 brass too.
http://www.starlinebrass.com/

[Bent Ramrod]

I think it was George Nonte who started this notion that cases could be fireformed in the basement with blank loads with no disturbance whatsoever. It was one of the few things he was dead wrong about.

I once needed to make some .38-55 shot shells back in the bad old days when there were no such brass available. I used his recommendation of about 10 grains Bullseye and a case full of Cream of Wheat in a .32 Special shell. Some warning instinct made me take these loads out to the local gravel pit rather than fire them in the house. Nonte's book said he could fire them against his wife's hanging sheets at a distance of a few feet with no disturbance other than wafting them around in a breeze. I put the muzzle of the gun about two feet from a 16 gauge metal can somebody had left there. It blew a hole through the side of it. It was also pretty loud. Formed the case well, though it was slightly short.

Kind of put me off the idea of shooting even blanks at anything I valued.

[charger 1]

I either form with a few grains of 700x cornmeal,and TP. Or method 2 is an actual projectile of that cal on a few grains of same powder out back door. One day using the latter method I let the powder slip to the front of the 300 weath I was doing. It imploded the shoulder and sucked the neck about an 1/8" up the bore.Real pretty

[wills]

You could just wait a bit til Starline comes out with their new 38-55 brass too.
http://www.starlinebrass.com/

I thought about suggesting that too, but figured considering he already blew a hole in the ceiling he might be in a hurry, and would not be willing to wait.

[waksupi]

I think it was George Nonte who started this notion that cases could be fireformed in the basement with blank loads with no disturbance whatsoever. It was one of the few things he was dead wrong about.

I once needed to make some .38-55 shot shells back in the bad old days when there were no such brass available. I used his recommendation of about 10 grains Bullseye and a case full of Cream of Wheat in a .32 Special shell. Some warning instinct made me take these loads out to the local gravel pit rather than fire them in the house. Nonte's book said he could fire them against his wife's hanging sheets at a distance of a few feet with no disturbance other than wafting them around in a breeze. I put the muzzle of the gun about two feet from a 16 gauge metal can somebody had left there. It blew a hole through the side of it. It was also pretty loud. Formed the case well, though it was slightly short.

Kind of put me off the idea of shooting even blanks at anything I valued.

I think Nonte was a dangerous fool. Pick up his blackpowder handbook sometime, and check the listed loads. Then burn the book, so it never falls into a novices hands.

[Harry O]

I have fireformed several different cases, but don't have any story like that to tell. Usually, they take more powder than I think so I don't load up a bunch until I have one that works.

When I was fireforming 9.5x57 Mannlicher-Schoenauer brass from .35 Whelen brass (and later 9.3x62 Norma brass), I worked up with 13gr of Red Dot. That was a standard scoop size with Lee plastic scoops. I filled the rest of the case with plastic shot buffer. I use Cream-of-Wheat on straight cases, but not bottleneck. Then I pushed the mouth of the case into a block of pariffin wax. The 9.5x57 had a couple of bends in a very short distance, so it took a lot to blow it out. But it worked well.

The only problem was the blow-back from the plastic shot buffer. The people on either side of me did not like that.

[Ed Barrett]

I've found the cream of wheat or grits with a fast pistol powder and a wax plug works as a pretty good method of taking rust and old paint off of lawn furniture. Wear eye protection. Found this out when I was fire forming a bunch of cases for a friend. It will also take spilled lead off of concrete, another mistake I made smelting down wheel weights when filling molds. Might tell Martha Stuart about this and she could come up with some other ideas.

[omgb]

So, I was scratching my head trying to recoup my honor and came up with a new plan that does the following:

a: Allows me to fire-form at home in the shop
b: Is quiet
c: safe
d: does not damage paneling or ceiling tiles
:brokenima

I got a 55 gallon drum and filled it half full of cellulose insulation (I've got a bale of it that I've had for years. It was $6.00 at Lowe's) I then took fiberglass insulation and hot glued it to the barrel insides above the cellulose. So what I've got is a barrel lined with insulation and filled with a two foot layer of cellulose insulation in the bottom. BTW, cellulose insulation is fire-proof. Then I made a lid for the barrel from a plastic trash can. First, I hot glued fiberglass insulation to the inside of the lid. Then I cut an opening in the middle and hot glued a section of truck inner tube over the hole. I then slit the tube. I can insert a gun barrel and the tube wraps around it sealing in noise and particles.

I tested it this AM using the load I got in trouble with yesterday. It works like a charm. It's quiet, (almost silent, sort of a dull thud rather than a smart pop or bang) and it contains all of the ejecta in a safe way. I got the idea from the old clearing barrels they used to have at the SP armory on the USAF bases I served at. They used a 55 gallon drum filled with sand and a heavy steel lit with a piece of pipe welded to the top. You put your supposedly unloaded weapon in the pipe, pulled back the loading lever and pulled the trigger. In the event that some idiot had failed to clear his weapon, the shot was contained in the sand. This used parts I had on hand and was therefore cheap to make. It is only for case forming, not for testing loads. A 22 round would easily pass through the insulation and get loose in the shop. Not good at all for the neighborhood. Now at least, I can make my own cases if I wish.

[Jetwrench]

Well I have a contender, with a bbl in 221 Fireball. It was developing a ring just in front of the case web w/factory ammo. Well thinks I, why not just pull the bullets and fireform, (thinking the chamber is a little long here) looking around I see a box of 22 cal pellets. OK just dump the powder back in the case and seat a 22 cal pellet thinks I. And so I did, then I proceed to stick that thing out the back door and let one fly. Well some times I just forget to recharge the battery back up to the old brain. With that said. OK what to shoot? AH the BBQ pit, lil ol soft pellet wont hurt that. You would be amazed at the hole a SOFT pure lead 22 cal pellet will make in a little smokey BBQ pit. SWMBO was hacked at yours truely for A WHILE over that one. JETWRENCH

[AkMike]

OMGB,

Be very careful..... IIRC that cellulose is fire resistant NOT fire proof..
Don't burn the house down, the Mrs. might be ticked off for quite a while..
The new short 38-55 cases will work if you seat the boolits out a bit further.

[omgb]

You are correct, it's fire resistant. However, that being said, I have used it for parachute wadding in model rockets for 20 years or more. Under those circumstances it's subjected to direct flame from black powder ejection charges and it never ignites. That's not to say it will never ignite, it's just that so far, it has show a noteworthy reluctance to do so hence I felt safe using it as a sound deadening material.

[Dale53]

One thing you might consider with your clever "muffler". There always seems to be some unburned powder when firing, whether its blanks or live rounds. This unburned powder will accumulate and could create a fire hazard down the pike. If you find that hard to believe, just sweep up your indoor range from time to time. Amazing amount of unburned powder around...

Dale53

[trooperdan]

Dale, your post about unburned powder is right on the mark. There was a Glock worker at the Georgia facility that died last year due to a fire on the indoor range where they test fired the handguns. Enough unburned powder accumulated and it was ignited somehow. He lived an unfortunately long time before expiring as I recall.

[drinks]

About the shorter length, supposedly, Win. factory has standardized on one blank for all the cases from .25-35 to .38-55 and .375. This was supposedly done 3 or 4 years ago in an effort to reduce costs and inventory.

[omgb]

I suppose eventually, enough unburned powder could build up to be a fire hazard but it's going to take a long time. 4 or 5 grains for 700x is pretty well burnt after traveling the length of a 20" barrel. Some would remain unburned but it would have to be in proximity of a considerable amount of unburned powder to ignite the treated cellulose in the bottom of the barrel. The steel sides would contain most of if not all of any fire that might erupt. The key would be to store the drum outside away from buildings. That way if a smoldering lump of material did catch fire, it would be harmless. As to flash fires due to powder build up..... with the small number of cases I might fire-form and the small charges involved, i just don't see that as a likely event.