Patrol Rifle

[Dragoon 45]

My nephew is graduating from a Police Academy in a different state in the next month or so. He has hinted around the family that he would love to get a Patrol Rifle for a graduation gift. Told my sister, his mom, that the rifle he wants is around $900; but my sister, when she told me about it, could not remember what type rifle it was.

I am assuming that in modern police useage a Patrol Rifle is probably an AR-15 type rifle or carbine. Is this correct? Or is the type of rifle used as a Patrol Rifle up to the individual officer or department?

Thank You.

[Doby45]

It is normally up to the department and not something that every street officer gets. There is usually additional qualifications and sign offs that occur prior to being issued or allowed to carry a rifle in your car. I know it was that way for my department.

The standard for rifle can also vary by department. We had/have AR15s and MP5s.

[Down South]

I would check with the department that he will be joining to see what they require. Or get your sister or his mom to casually quiz him about again.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I would agree with the above. In Illinois each city Dept. was responsible to come up with their local regulations as to sidearms and alternative other weapons authorized.
Mike in Peru

[ReloaderFred]

My department settled on the AR-15, either provided by the officer or issued by the department. The orientation/qualification for authorization to carry a rifle was a week long course.

Fred

[BABore]

In 50 Beowulf would make me feel good.:mrgreen:

[GabbyM]

FN makes Military and police rifles based on Winchester Model 70 actions. They have a line they may call patrol rifles. Marketing places so many macho names on stuff I can't keep it straight. SPR (special police rifle) is here and you can follow the links. Nice rifles but for us sportsman you can get a beautiful walnut Winchester M-70 for less money.
http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF006&gid=FNG005&mid=FNM0008

[Doby45]

Gabby those all appear to be more "special/sniper" rifles than patrol rifles. ;)

[mooman76]

Probably an AR style weapon but you should ask someone who knows. Allot of LE have specific guidlines as to caliber and types of guns.

[GabbyM]

That link was a 24 inch barrel but they make them in 20 inch also. They have a bunch of them in 223 or 308. May be over on the military side but they had one last year they called a PBR for patrol bolt rifle.
I have no idea what the fellows hanging on the tactical sites call a rifle. I do know that just because a rifle has a bolt action that doesn't mean it's only good as a sniper rifle. I like a thirty caliber bolt gun myself. Of course I'm just a slow thinking country boy. Far as I'm concerned the department could buy all the silly guns and I'd get something I'd actually use. Note those Winchester 308's all have 1-12” twist which should makes them superb boolit shooters.

[Dragoon 45]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I got to talk to him on the phone tonight, and the Academy he is attending recommends that the graduates obtain an AR-15 type rifle. So at least that is their definition of what a patrol rifle is.

I'm retired military but had never heard that term before. Is it a fairly recent term or has it been around a while in LE circles?

[cheese1566]

A patrol rifle is typically a carbine style rifle. It can be a AR-15 variant, Ruger Mini-14, AK style, or other short rifle.
The Law Enforcement community is moving away from shotguns and directing towards small caliber (223) rifles. The rifles are moving from the trunks to the gunlocks where the shotguns were once located inside the car.

The new school of thought is that a patrol rifle has more advantages (which I am sure to be refuted by the experts here, but has to do with patrol officer response to active shooters) than large caliber rifles and shotguns.

Some patrol rifles are super basic- carbine length AR-15's with collapsible stocks and regular fixed open sights; to suped up models with flat tops and picatinney rails for fancy lights, flip up sights, and electronic sights.

My personal choice is the first- all stock with no tweaking, especially to the trigger or internal components and no fail common stock open sights.

[mooman76]

It seems like we have a stand off here every week. Criminals are not afraid to shoot it out with the cops and take anyone they can with them now adays and it calls for a longer distance ,ore accurate shot than pistol or shotgun. They are allowd to carry them here but only if qualified and they don't have the funds to are every cop with one.

[waksupi]

I believe a lot of the guys on the Sheriff's department here still carry 30-30 lever actions.

[Buckshot]

..............I may be mistaken but I think the San Bernardino County (CA) Sheriffs Dept issues Ruger Mini-14's as patrol rifles. I believe 9.3x62AL at Riverside County was issued one but they went to the M16 later.

..............Buckshot

[357maximum]

I believe a lot of the guys on the Sheriff's department here still carry 30-30 lever actions.

Now that's my idea of a patrol rifle:grin:........of course I would be "patrolling" the local forest for "instigators" willing to be dinner guests. ;-)

Dutch4122 was using my "PATROL" rifle awhile back shooting 180yards at a 12 in square thin steel plate with some seriously underpowered plinkers. He lost the ability to miss that plate a few rounds in to it and seemed to like the HANGTIME between POP and BING.

I would think the fact that the good ol turdy turdy is so easy to hit with, can be loaded anyway you want it from 400fps on up and can be reloaded as you use them rounds up would make it ideal for a real PATROL rifle. Who knew that the Appalachian assault rifle and a patrol rifle could be the same rifle.........saweeeeeeeeeeet.

If it were not for all the winter you get and them lying sheep ya got there Montana sounds better and better all the time. :lol:

[Down South]

I would think that if he is looking for an AR 15 then the 16" barrel length carbine is what he is looking for. Below is a link to Colt's version of the military/police AR 15.
http://www.impactguns.com/store/COLT-LE6920BF.html

[Houndog]

Our local Sheriff's department is issued a Bushmaster M4 carbine. 16" barrel, colapsable stock, and military style open sights.

[Geraldo]

My experience is that "patrol rifle" or "patrol carbine" means a 16" barreled AR15, with the Colt LE6920 being a popular option, followed by models from Bushmaster. Some departments issue them, some allow privately owned firearms to be used on duty. If privately owned firearms are allowed, they must usually be picked from a list of specific models and manufacturers.

Is he graduating from an academy in hopes of being hired, or has he been hired? The difference is important. Down here a lot of people go to police and fire academies and end up working in another field because they can't get hired, and I've seen them selling/trading off equipment that they thought they would need but didn't. The other issue is that buying in advance of being hired means you're guessing at what the rules of a future job might be.

If he has already been hired, I would say to check with the department that hired him, but do it discreetly. You don't want the brass getting ideas about him prior to his first day if patrol carbine qualified officers are considered special or must be supervisors, so something along the lines of, "His family has been thinking about buying him a pistol/rifle/whatever but we don't know what to do..."

All that said, an AR15 is a fine gift for anybody regardless of their hiring or employment status.

[Down South]

+1 on what Geraldo said. The link that I posted up above is the Colt 16" LE 6920. They can be found a little cheaper than the price in the link. But like Geraldo said, make sure he has the job and check the department requirements.

[cajun shooter]

There was a time that I remember well. We had a sniper in New Orleans,La. that was on top of the Howard Johnson's Hotel He was able to shoot anyone he wanted because of the weapons he had . The police that responded could not reach him with the shotguns they carried. It took a helo with heavy machine guns to bring all the killing to a stop. They just shot the concrete building down and killed him. The next case was in Austin, Texas same thing. The cops were under gunned. I was a lead sniper trained at the FBI sniper school and Firearms Instructor. The proper way that a patrol car should be fitted is not with one or the other but both. There are times that a ar-15 is too much gun and a time when that 870 is not enough. If I worked at a department that could not do this I would do it myself. I had two riding partners killed and you just can't say what is needed all the time. I laugh when I hear where just the Sergeant carries the rifle. I will bet you that when that rifle is needed within seconds it will not be available.

[82nd airborne]

a I had two riding partners killed and you just can't say what is needed all the time. I laugh when I hear where just the Sergeant carries the rifle. I will bet you that when that rifle is needed within seconds it will not be available.

+1 on every man on the job needing the best equipment available. sorry to here about your partners, not that that makes it any better, but i appreciate them all the same.

[a.squibload]

CS:
There's no way to express our appreciation for their service, and yours.


Now for the humor:


...I was a lead sniper...

Does that mean cast boolits only?:)

[9.3X62AL]

"Patrol Rifle" is kind of a politically-correct buzzword coined in the late 1990s in police circles for supplemental arms intended for either "active shooter" counter-measures (E.G., Columbine High School), or to counter heavily-armed bank robbery crews (North Hollywood bank robbery). These are usually AR-15-series rifles, but this can vary from agency to agency. In the case of my former shop, we authorized Colt--Bushmaster--and Armalite for personally-purchased rifles, 16" or 20" barrels, "hard" or collapsible stocks. We also had M-16A1 variants for issue, refurbished by military arsenals to A2 configuration and civilianized to semi-auto only function. This last option was what I carried in my car's trunk from the onset of the program in 1999 until I retired in 2005. A 2-day course attended on the deputy's own time was required, and training in system care--firing--and qualification at 90% was included in this course. "Active shooter" policies and procedures were also presented to all personnel during this program initiation.

Prior to the Patrol Rifle program coming online, a similar 2-day course existed for those wishing to carry the Mini-14s we had on board since 1980. These had been SWAT team rifles until 1989, when the M-16A2/M-4/Colt SMG were brought on board for SWAT. One note on the Mini-14 vs. AR-15 "Ford vs. Chevy" argument that goes on unabated.......the Ruger Mini-14 is as deputy-proof a device as the Remington 870 shotgun. The AR-15 is NOT. Something--ANYTHING that is truly proven to be deputy-proof has achieved a level of design integrity seldom encountered in man-made devices.

At the time of policy development for the Patrol Rifle program, the inclusion of bolt action/scope-sighted 223 caliber rifles was considered seriously. It was ultimately nixed by an upper-echelon apparatchik who deemed such firearms to be "too accurate" for deputy personnel usage. That is a direct quote from the man's mouth. In the same way that no plan survives unchanged after initial contact with opposing force--no idea, whatever its merits, can survive dilettante administrative review. No magnifying sights on the ARs, either. I just worked there.

[MtGun44]

LOL!

"Too accurate", I guess you wouldn't want to actually HIT the bad guys! :-)

You really can't make this stuff up.

Bill

[a.squibload]

You didn't finish the rest of his recommendation, where he suggested "claymore-on-a-stick"...

[Rockydog]

Wonder what ever happened to Remington's idea of the 760, .223 pump? Very accurate, accepts AR15 magazines, officers used to 870 Shotgun pumps were used to the identical controls etc. Seemed like a great idea to me but I never heard of a department using one. RD

[cattleskinner]

I would wait to see what his department rules are before laying down the money to buy him a rifle that may not fit the rules, or may not be allowed to carry period. With that said, my department says it has to be a quality AR 15 in .223/5.56 mm and that is it. I just picked up a Stag Arms model 2, using the department letterhead it cost $750 total from the factory to my department. I put Magpul hand guards and an Ergo grip on it, and I think I am ready to go other than qualifying in the next week or two. That is another thing to consider...wait till he finds out and then give him the money to get a L.E. discount.

[jsizemore]

You didn't finish the rest of his recommendation, where he suggested "claymore-on-a-stick"...

probably more like hand held claymore or air soft tactical to cut down on collateral damage!!!!

[Bret4207]

It has been my experience that baby cops think they "need" a lot of stuff they may not need, may not be allowed to use, may already be issued, etc. I'd give the young man some time before making any big dollar purchases to figure out the rules, see exactly what he's issued and to determine his placement.

When we were getting ready to graduate, many years ago, every Monday guys were coming in bragging up all the gear they'd bought. Mind you, we were making a little over $17K at the time. One kid comes in and is telling how he blew his savings + paycheck on a gun of some sort complete with off duty rig, extra mags, the whole ball of wax. This was all pre "Tactical Extreme" of course, but I believe it was a Sig and Bianchi leather. We asked the obvious question, "But what if you need the money for an apartment?" He was firmly of the belief he'd be stationed near home in Long Island. Of course he got sent to the far side of Buffalo on the Pa border......

[emorris]

As others have said it would be best to wait to see what his department will allow. If he is working for a larger department they will most likely have a large list of general orders (policy & procedure) as to what type (or brand) of rifle officers can carry, how they are carried, who is qualified to carry, and when they can be deployed (rifles still have a stigma in the public eyes). This may involve specialized trainning as well as a qualifaction course of fire (to reduce department's liability). My expierence with small departments is that they rely more on common sence than general orders. My department has a Patrol rifle unit, which is selected officers are issued departmental rifles and is trained on how and when to use them. All patrolmen in my department are issued an 870 rem. I carry it along with my rifle (we have a lot of deer hit by cars). The rifle that I am issued is a bushwacker i mean bushmaster m4 with A2 night sights. It is a good rifle so is most ar style rifles. In my own opinion the money would be better served by buying him a back up pistol that he can carry on himself. If he carries a glock 22 (40S&W) the most common in my area you may look into a glock 27, since it will use the same mags as a glock 22. The kel-tech p3at or ruger lcp is a small and easliy hidden pistol. You can get a belt clip for both that will clip onto his bullet proff vest. An accessable back up comes in handy if someone is trying to get your primary side arm, or it failes. Once again the backup pistol may be regulated by the department so you will need to do some research on that as well. i hope that this helped

[Doby45]

If he carries a glock 22 (40S&W) the most common in my area you may look into a glock 27, since it will use the same mags as a glock 22. The kel-tech p3at or ruger lcp is a small and easliy hidden pistol. You can get a belt clip for both that will clip onto his bullet proff vest. An accessable back up comes in handy if someone is trying to get your primary side arm, or it failes. Once again the backup pistol may be regulated by the department so you will need to do some research on that as well. i hope that this helped

No truer words have been spoken. I carried a G23 as my primary and a G27 on a bianchi ankle holster, until my first foot chase. When I got over the brusied ankle I went to a Kel-Tec 380 with clip that went on my weak side vest in a cross draw fahion and never looked back. As it was stated earlier plans are great and look great until they meet action, then things change.

[SharpsShooter]

I believe a lot of the guys on the Sheriff's department here still carry 30-30 lever actions.

Funny, when I saw the thread title, the first rifle that came to mind was my 1895 Marlin. One of those in the hands of a decent shooter would have put the skids to those Hollyweird shooters body armor or not.

SS

[Dragoon 45]

Once again to everyone thank you for your replies and pearls of wisdom.

After another phone conversation with my nephew, I have learned some more on his rational for the rifle. He has a wife, a two year old and a baby on the way. In addition to possible use of the rifle in his police duties, he would like to have the rifle for home defense if he is unable to use it on duty. He has actually thought this out more than I had suspected. While I am not a fan of the AR platform, I carried one for 30+ years in the military, I do understand these rifles are quite popular in LE circles and are becoming popular in home defense.

As I understand it, he has job offers from two PD's and one Sheriff's office. Don't know which one he will take yet.

[Down South]

I'd still wait till he accepts a job. Then he can see what the department regs are. If they insist on an AR of particular brand, get that. Then he has a weapon that will serve as duty or home defense.

[9.3X62AL]

A lever action in 30-30 or 45-70 would be an excellent patrol rifle. I recall seeing a half-dozen pre-64 Win 94s in the station armory at Indio as a young deputy. I don't think they were ever fielded in my 4 years at that posting.

The slide-action Rem 760 would work very well, also. The AR-15 caught on early due to the availability of the modded & upgraded A1 models for departments from the government at very low prices.

Some good advice has been given regarding the timing of this purchase, and the reasons given for delay are quite sound.

I'm not real jazzed about night sights on handguns, but STRONGLY favor their inclusion on a patrol rifle. The quals scores at night firing increased DRAMATICALLY for users of these systems, far more so than did night-sighted handgun scores.

[Bret4207]

Once again to everyone thank you for your replies and pearls of wisdom.

After another phone conversation with my nephew, I have learned some more on his rational for the rifle. He has a wife, a two year old and a baby on the way. In addition to possible use of the rifle in his police duties, he would like to have the rifle for home defense if he is unable to use it on duty. He has actually thought this out more than I had suspected. While I am not a fan of the AR platform, I carried one for 30+ years in the military, I do understand these rifles are quite popular in LE circles and are becoming popular in home defense.

As I understand it, he has job offers from two PD's and one Sheriff's office. Don't know which one he will take yet.

Yup, I knew it. Wait until he finds out if he can even carry a rifle before buying anything. "New Tacticool Toy" syndrome strikes again. He may be barred from carrying anything other than dept. issue.

[ole 5 hole group]

Yup, ole Bret4207 has it about right but let the youngsters learn for themselves, as that's all part of the job for those who have never been around firearms or done a tour in the service (armed forces) before hiring on. Myself, I'd recommend either the Ruger Mini-14 or a 223/308 in a bullpup design but that's probably not "tactical" cool these days.

[GabbyM]

We are about to loose half our LEO's here in Illinois. Little issue with being bankrupt.
State announced a 500 man cut in the ISP which is short of 25% but then that's off since they passed a three billion dollar deficit budget. Fools from Chicago just keep digging the hole deeper every year.

In my town of 4,400 we have laid off one of our four LEO's and two street workers. Water dept. stayed on as it's hard to not pump water and treat sewage.
Just saying he wants to stay far away from here if he wants to keep a job. City and County finances are usually on the internet. This time next year there will be thousands of experienced law enforcement officers looking for a job. Most likely lots of silly guns for sale too. As I peer into my crystal ball.

[Bret4207]

Not to take this completely off topic, but Gabby is 100% right. We're in a fix and things aren't getting better. I have a decent retirement, but I have to watch every penny or I end up short each month. Doesn't help with one boy out of work I'll tell ya and prices keep rising. Good thing my kids like noodles and hot dogs.

[Geraldo]

Once again to everyone thank you for your replies and pearls of wisdom.

After another phone conversation with my nephew, I have learned some more on his rational for the rifle. He has a wife, a two year old and a baby on the way. In addition to possible use of the rifle in his police duties, he would like to have the rifle for home defense if he is unable to use it on duty. He has actually thought this out more than I had suspected. While I am not a fan of the AR platform, I carried one for 30+ years in the military, I do understand these rifles are quite popular in LE circles and are becoming popular in home defense.

As I understand it, he has job offers from two PD's and one Sheriff's office. Don't know which one he will take yet.

This may seem a little strong, but he's got a pregnant wife and a young child he needs to worry about more than a rifle. Unless he's going to have his family live in a war zone, his duty pistol will suffice for home protection. The main thing for a cop is to do everything he or she can to keep bad guys from knowing where they live, and his department and fellow officers will make sure he knows that.

[scarry scarney]

If he has a young child, and another one on the way. How about one of those pistol lock boxes, spring loaded door, with the push button combo (http://www.gunsafestore.com/gun-lock-box.htm). This way, even at home his pistol will be safe from little hands, but still loaded and "ready for duty."

[badge176]

We FINALLY got a rifle in our squads! We'd been stuck with undermaintained Ruger PC40s after a 2000 shooting where a couple of ours got hit (they recovered and retired at will with their health and mobility--bad guy lost the top of his head that day; end of a 13 bank spree!- nice shooting Sgt. "Scott", THROUGH TWO TRUCK WINDOWS AS THE GUY WAS TRYING TO RELOAD/ CLEAR A JAM!).

We ended up with a 16 inch barrel, full sight radius ("dissipator style") flat top carbine with a shorter fixed stock and a pair of 20 round mags. We put the LaRue fixed A1 sight on the rear and retrofitted them with "same-plane rear peeps to prevent cop- induced errors. They got a twopoint patrol sling that mounts on top of the butt stock at the rear and on a collar strapped to the fore end just ahead of the reciever- it drops the rifle across the chest and to the off- side to allow transition to the sidearm. We load 18 rounds per mag of Fed 64 gr bonded SP and the front sights all got upgraded to 24/7 night sights. If you've ever tried a tactical reload ( fresh mag in w/bolt forward on live round), and failed to fully seat the fresh mag, the truly "loudest sound ever" isn't a click on an empty chamber but the clunk of the full mag dropping out to the floor in the middle of what you meant to be a double tap!

Suprisingly, almost nobdy complains now. except for the investigators who all got the old M16s the SWAT team abandoned in favor of their FN P90s.

[82nd airborne]

Under adrenaline, I doubt you'll have too much of a problem not seating mags hard enough. I know I felt like I was going to crush them!

[Doc Highwall]

He might even get special pricing through the police department.

[autofix4u]

My local Sherrifs Dpt has "patrol rifles" to issue if Deputys want or the can buy there own AR15 type rifle. The issue rifles are pre 64 Win 94s in 30-30. Most were bought and payed for between 1910 & 1930 by a local supporter of the department. He bought and donated one a year for 20 years and all but one are still in service..

[Tazman1602]

+1 for them! A true "assault rifle". Just keep shoving them rounds into the mag!

I think the LEO's need to be issued the most reliable, biggest calibre weapon they can handle regardless of cost............take it from the Administrations budget.

.........but then I also believe if a cop is 'bellerin "Stop or I'll Shoot!" and said person doesn't stop that they should be able to shoot them with NO repercussions.

Art



I believe a lot of the guys on the Sheriff's department here still carry 30-30 lever actions.

[82nd airborne]

We redo confiscated weapons for the police here, free of charge. They in turn use them as patrol rifles. The other day, a freind of ours on the pd brought us his issued mini 14. It was missing the rear sight, had a folding stock that wouldnt lock open, and was rusted terrribly. They couldnt believe it was the same rifle. Whats funny about that though, is that they expected him to carry it as issued, and only gave him 5 rds! Talk about under funded! Most guys here buy there own, but then again, that is just an excuse to get past the wives budget, because they really dont need them here.

[JRMTactical]

http://www.jrmtacticalgunsmithing.com/images/albums/NewAlbum_f97e5/DSC02208.JPG

My version of what I like to call the "Recon Rifle".....doubles as a patrol gun. Mine is deadly accurate, and is SUPER FUN SUPPRESSED!!

[Az Rick]

I believe it was the late, great, Col. Jeff Cooper who said," The only reason to carry a pistol is to fight your way to a rifle."

Best, Rick

He favored the Scout Rifle.

[JRMTactical]

I believe it was the late, great, Col. Jeff Cooper who said," The only reason to carry a pistol is to fight your way to a rifle."

Best, Rick

He favored the Scout Rifle.

He was a great man, very smart and such a wealth of information.

[dualsport]

Nobody has recommended buying the kid an AK or an UZI. Maybe we should start getting on board with international security forces and just go for maximum firepower. I'm talking full auto! Don't even issue sidearms. And teach the recruits to hold their weapons out sideways when they fire. It would make way better video from the news helicopter shot. Along those lines maybe issue the LAPD an Apache and maybe some reduced size Cruise Missles for taking out crack houses or SLA holdouts. OK, OK, just kidding. But an MP5 over the shoulder makes quite a statement.

[82nd airborne]

Nobody has recommended buying the kid an AK or an UZI. Maybe we should start getting on board with international security forces and just go for maximum firepower. I'm talking full auto! Don't even issue sidearms. And teach the recruits to hold their weapons out sideways when they fire. It would make way better video from the news helicopter shot. Along those lines maybe issue the LAPD an Apache and maybe some reduced size Cruise Missles for taking out crack houses or SLA holdouts. OK, OK, just kidding. But an MP5 over the shoulder makes quite a statement.

UMP's work too, but then again, I'm just fond of .45.

[82nd airborne]

JRMT, you build some nice guns, sir. I would like to get together with you sometime.

[JRMTactical]

Yeah man, we need to find some time to do that! I appreciate the compliment! We're in the same state, and I'd like to come visit your shop!

[82nd airborne]

As would I, maybe we could shoot something. There are several stray cats behind the shop. We were saving them for a special occasion. Id say if you visited that would be special enough.

[Old Ironsights]

Wonder what ever happened to Remington's idea of the 760, .223 pump? Very accurate, accepts AR15 magazines, officers used to 870 Shotgun pumps were used to the identical controls etc. Seemed like a great idea to me but I never heard of a department using one. RD

It was called the 7615. I think they dropped it in favor of their AR Clone line (R-15). But I'm sure there are a few still around, and probably at a pretty good price.

http://remington.com/products/archived/centerfire/pump-action/model-7615.aspx

[alamogunr]

I believe a lot of the guys on the Sheriff's department here still carry 30-30 lever actions.

OT. I remember reading articles by Frank Marshall Jr. in the Fouling Shot where he referred to a lever action as "Appalachian Assault Rifle"

John
W.TN

[JRMTactical]

As would I, maybe we could shoot something. There are several stray cats behind the shop. We were saving them for a special occasion. Id say if you visited that would be special enough.

OH YEAH!!! I'll bring the beer and barbecue sauce! I've been wanting to try some .223 subsonic loads using Blue Dot that I found. With my M4-2000 suppressor, the cats shouldn't even jump! LOL!
:lovebooli

[82nd airborne]

We happen to have a farm that grows some pretty tasty steaks, so that will work out well. I was just gunna use the .50, so as not to be undergunned. As long as you have at least 30rd mags I think youd be ok with a .223!

[Old Ironsights]

OT. I remember reading articles by Frank Marshall Jr. in the Fouling Shot where he referred to a lever action as "Appalachian Assault Rifle"

John
W.TN

Really, how much of the need for a patrol rifle is less of a need for penetration (bad in urban enviorns) and more of a need for Sight Plane anyway?

Seems that a Keltec Sub2000 that takes your standard duty mag & ammo would cover about every need except for a Sniper.. that or if a department still "allows" .357s then a .357 Lever adds lots of sight plane and extra whollop from standard duty ammo.

[KCSO]

First you need to know department policy. Rookies tend to ASS/U/ME a lot. Most departments will either demand department issue or only approved weapons. No sense in buying some fancy AR and then find out the Department will only OK a Mini 14. As to carrying a personal weapon that also will depend on policy but due to liability most won't authorize a non approved weapon.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Listen to all those who have counselled waiting. If there is an urgent need to buy something as a graduation gift, get him some accessories that will work on any AR (Dept-owned or privately-owned and regardless of brand).

I'd recommend the following patrol rifle accessories:

#1 -- High Quality magazines. (I like Brownell's, and I have a few left I could give you at a good price from the group buy I did.)
#2 -- Giles Tactical Sling
#3 -- Redi-Mag (holds an extra mag on the receiver of the AR for a very fast reload)
#4 -- A good red-dot sight like an EOTech or Trijicon.
#5 -- A good pistolgrip that is non-slip rubber and ambidextrous. (I use the ErgoGrip)

That's about $150 worth of stuff not counting the sight (which can vary greatly, depending on the model, but will be at least $300 to as much as $1200).

That's a meaningful gift without getting him tripped up on having a rifle he can't actually use. Whatever rifle he gets will be very well set up with those accessories.