lee 120gn tc boolits

[emorris]

Iam still developing a load for my lee 120gn tc boolits for my Ruger p95 9mm. I have been playing around with over all length to fix the occasional misfeed. I am trying to get an idea of what the safe col would be. I have checked all my reloading books and did quite a few searches, but have not found a clear amswer for the boolit design. I am loading these rounds for plinking at paper targets and not nail drivers. The boolits when seated to 1.150 still have the grease grove showing and mifeed alot. I shortened to 1.135 and this improved feeding, but I thank that a shorter col would solve the problems, but in doing so I will be reducing the case volume. Bollits are sized at .358 and drop fit into chamber freely. They seem to hang up at the nose of the boolit. I am using 3.5gn of titegroup. Velocity runs about 1244fps. Recoil seems normal. Accuracy is unknown at this time.

[fecmech]

Seat the bullet with the front edge of the driving ban even with the case mouth and you will have the same ballistics as Lyman shows with their 120 Tc in the cast bullet manual. The lyman Bullet is has a sharper longer pointed nose but same bearing area so therefore a longer OAL.

[fredj338]

I always seat to an OAL as long as I can get to function. Just work your load up. If that is an actual chronographed vel, sounds a bit hot.

[Frozone]

I'm loading the same boolit with 3.8g 700x.
I use 1.110 OAL. Results are good (except for leading).
I must agree that 1200+ FPS sounds pretty hot.

[MtGun44]

Excellent boolit, use a good lube, oversize about .001 or .002 and you will not get
leading, or to clarify --I do not get leading in many different brands of 9mms with
full power loads.

Bill

[Gunslinger]

I'm shooting the same boolit over 3.6gr of vV N320. Velocity is 1050 and COL is 1.125

At this col the lube groove is covered, and then just a tad wee lower!

[Doble Troble]

I shoot those in everything seated until the base of the 'cone' meets the case mouth. Longer and there are occaisional problems in some guns (i.e. Ruger SR9).

Otherwise it's 100% reliable. If you're shooting loads that don't lead, you're probably not pushing pressure. But seating depth in the 9 is something to be careful about. And safety isn't ammenable to 'probable'.

My load that hasn't blown several guns up after 100s of rounds is 4.3 gr Unique.

PS >1200 fps seems fast to me.

[HeavyMetal]

Lee's book is showing 1136 for 4.4 grains Titegroup under a 124 grain jacketed bullet.

Odds are the load is fired in a 4 inch gun.

Add an inch of barrel, drop the boolit weight 5 grains, add the fact that lead is a tad slippery'r than gilded metal and 1200 is certainly do-able!

What I would do with this boolit is pull the barrel and adjust the COL until my round was flush with the chamber end of the barrel.

Once I had that COL down I would reduce the load and start over.

Not sure what you are using as an indicator of pressure but stop "reading" primers if that's what you are doing!

The 9mm is the most misread cartridge in the world because of a ton of sloppy fring pin holes.

Do a search for pressure readings and learn to measure case head expansion. It's both safer and more reliable!

[emorris]

Follow up.
I loaded some more of my initial rounds with 3.5gn titegroup and seated to 1.125. The velocity hovered around 1083 +-13fps. My initial reading wasaround 1244 fps. I thought that this was accurate at the time since they were consistant, but now I know now it was an error. I was remembered back some time when I was working up my load for 38 special(just got my croney).My first couple of shots clocked at around 1800fps (cant remember exactly). My reaction to this was D*mn these rounds are hot and I still have my gun and hand. Then I read the instructions and they explained how it is best to stand back from it. I did and then the 38s clocked at around 760ish. As far as pressure the first thing that I check is the primers (sorry), but I dont only depend on them. I have fired many and many factory and reloaded rounds through this pistol and have a good idea what a normal primer indent looks like. When I am working up an unknown load in rifle and handgun I measure the case head at and around the web. Then I compare with that of a known load. I have just began casting for the 9mm, I have always loaded the j- word for it,but I loved casting for the 38 special. I remember when I had a Lyman #49 manuel, but it had a terriable fate. It was in my saddle bags when I crashed it in to a Mack truck. I did post pictures in my "Back in the Game" thread. Thanks everyone for your help.

[gefiltephish]

I load that bullet to 1.055-1.060 because that's what fits into my barrel (XD9). Leads like crazy regardless of size/powder/charge/lube, but is *much* more accurate than my mp-molds hp, which doesn't lead at all. Go figure.

[MtGun44]

gefiltephish,

what is the barrel groove diam and max diam you have tried? What lubes?

This works well in many 9mms for me with near zero to zero leading.

You may need .358 to stop leading, possibly more if it will chamber and a good lube.

Bill

[chris in va]

9mm can be a tough cookie to figure out. I just went through the whole gamut of shapes, sizes and loads.

The TC design didn't work for me at all. I had nothing but leading, keyholing and shotgun patterns with it in my three 9mm's. It wasn't so much the shape, but the size that messed everything up.

On the advice of the experts on here, I switched to a Lee 358-125-RF sized to 358 and most of those issues went away. The CZ still had problems feeding it at normal OAL's, and discovered it had to be shoved all the way down to 1.01 before it would chamber reliably, so to compensate I went with a minimum powder charge. It works great!

BTW you really can't hotrod lead boolits in the 9mm. The rifling is so shallow and fast, it's really only designed to pump out FMJ bullets so sending soft lead out at 1200fps will just smear it down the barrel. I'm sure someone on here has successfully got it to Warp 3 without leading, but I haven't been able to achieve that.

[MtGun44]

I use 6.5 of Vectran SP8, which the factory says will go about 1150 fps with FMJ, IIRC,
so I expect a bit more from boolits with lower friction coefficient. NO leading in Ber92,
Sig225, Brng HP, Keltech PF9, Astra 600 so far, hundreds of rounds. Rounds a touch
too hot for PF9, apparently a tight chamber but zero leading, but only 10 rds or so as
the primers were bulging a lot - only in that gun, all others look normal. Beretta 92 picks
up a light uniform gray wash on the barrel, but it does not increase and cleans out
with normal brushing with brass brush and a few patches, no special effort. I guess
this is "leading" but is not any sort of a problem for accy, reliability, number of rounds
fired or cleanup, so I call it "no leading" in any harmful sense or need to change something.

OH - this is Lee 356-120TC conventional lube groove.

.357 diam, air cooled wwts, 50-50 NRA formula in a Star, range mixed brass.
100% reliable feeding and until the PF9, no pressure issues.

Bill

[gefiltephish]

gefiltephish,

what is the barrel groove diam and max diam you have tried? What lubes?

This works well in many 9mms for me with near zero to zero leading.

You may need .358 to stop leading, possibly more if it will chamber and a good lube.

Bill

Wasn't intending to hijack the op's thread, but maybe this will prove useful to him.

Just to clarify, I'm shooting the Lee 120TC conventional lube. (Or is it 124?)

Groove measures .3555, but I have a new mic now and will re-slug. I have tried .356, .357 and .358 and was really expecting a big difference but that didn't happen. Any larger and the round will chamber, but the slide will stick hard when I try to unload it. The MP bullet does not lead at .357 or .358.

I've used straight LLA, 50/50 LLA/Mineral Spirits, 45/45/10 LLA/JPW/MS, all in one and two coats - none of them were any good at all. Didn't work in my .45 1911 either. I've had much better results with a Lyman 450 and Lyman Alox. This works perfectly with the MPHP bullet. I've also tried Javelina. I recently received some of that green stuff from Bullshop, but I'm waiting for the Alox to run out (of the 450) before trying it.

Water dropped or air cooled didn't make any difference with either bullet. It's strange that even with the same alloy, one bullet leads while the other leaves the barrel as shiny as a new dime.

I've tried TG, Universal, Unique, 231 and WSF with no difference in leading throughout their charge ranges. For the Lee I settled on WSF as it seemed to be the most accurate AND it was available in 4lbs at the time.

It appears that the lube groove on the MP bullet holds quite a bit more lube than the Lee. I had to lap the Lee mold a few times to get it up to .358 and I suspect that lapping causes the lube groove to shrink a bit. I can't help but wonder if it's just enough to make the difference. In hind site, I should have beagled it instead.

[9.3X62AL]

E Morris--

This is addendum to your other thread.......

Once the diametric hoops are jumped through, the next challenge is to confront the 9mm's (and 40 S&W's) other personality quirk--that both want to be rifles, not handguns. By this, I mean that the calibers run with rifle-like pressure and their barrels often have VERY fast twist rates, 1-10" or thereabouts. My usual bit, once dimensions are squared away, is to use fairly hard alloy (92/6/2) and a rifle-class lubricant--in this case, NRA formula Alox/beeswax. Some shooters consider this low-tech stuff, but it works for me to 2100 FPS in rifles.

I don't have enough experience with LLA to compare its performance to the Javelina lube in my Lyman 450.

[XWrench3]

I have found that all of my lee boolits need to be seated deeper than regular jacketed bullets. How much is trial and error for me. Basicly, i make up a cartridge with no primer or powder, and try to chamber the round, it usually takes a couple of trial fittings to find the correct seating depth.