9mm sizing

[emorris]

I am hoping for help with loading 9mm cast boolits. My mold is a lee 120gn tc nose with regular greese groves. They were sized at .356 with lee sizer and tumbled lubed and alloy is ww. The problem that I am having is that when I try to seat the boolit. The die is swaging the bullet to a smaller diameter. My dies are lee also. Has anyone had similar problems. Also the dies loads FMJs just fine. It appears that the extra diameter of cast boolits is what causing the problem.

[RobS]

Is it the seating of the bullet that swages down the bullet or is it the dies???? What die set do you have........Lee 3 or 4 die set?

By the way this is very common for many so don't feel left out.

[454PB]

Military brass can sometimes cause very tight boolit grip, since it's thicker.

One possible solution is to use a slightly larger expander, IF the chamber will allow. Another solution is to use a harder alloy.

I generally keep military brass separate, but have not seen it actually size the boolits.

Have you actually pulled a seated boolit and measured it?

[chris in va]

Agree, measure a pulled boolit and see if it's really reducing the diameter or if it just looks that way.

FWIW I had really bad issues with 356 boolits in my 9mm's and had to go with a 358 before it would stop tumbling.

[mooman76]

Also how do you know the bullets are being swaged down and which die?

[emorris]

Is it the seating of the bullet that swages down the bullet or is it the dies???? What die set do you have........Lee 3 or 4 die set?

By the way this is very common for many so don't feel left out.


I have the lee 4 die set. it appears that the crimp shoulder is whats catching the booliet. I have played with case expanding. If the case mouth is expanded too much, the boolitt is pushed too far into the case by the shoulder. If it is not flaired enough, the case shaves the boolit and stills pushes it too far in the case by the crimp shoulder. I have ran the seating stem all the was down, but then i am unable to add a small amount of taper crimp with the seating die andwith the factory crimp die it sizes the case and booliet down. Ihave tried everycombination I can think of,but nothing has worked. I have even triedseating and crimping with 38 special dies, but would not work. I would say that the die may be defective, but I have loaded FMJs with it for a few years. This is also my second mold for 9mm, the first time I thought it may be the Tumble lube design. The alloy seems hard enough since I have loaded numerous 38 specials with it.

[GabbyM]

Many of those factory crimp dies will try to size your boolit down to J bullet diameter. You need a tapper crimp die. Does the seat die in your set have a taper crimp built into it?

I like to crimp in a separate operation. If you are on a progressive you'll be short a die for the last station.

Also use as large a bullet as will fit into your throat.

[RobS]

That is what I thought..................your options are to either buy another set of dies (different maker) or "adjust" the ones you have. I opted to make the onces I own work so I chose to use the seating die with the seating stem adjusted down far enough that it wouldn't crimp and then I took the carbide ring out of the factory crimp die. People have done this by a few means. I cut mine out however an easier route may be to knock it out. People have taken the die and placed a case in the top of the die and let it slide down until the head catches the lip of the cabide ring. At that point heating up the mouth of the die (carbide ring) with a touch can aid in breaking up the adheasive (locktite) bond and a punch can be put down the top of the die and placed on the head of the brass case. A few hits with a hammer and the ring has come out for many.

[462]

1. I've never used a Lee FCD other than for .30-30 WCF intended for a Winchester Model 94. However, I have read the handgun FCD horror stories.

2. Do you seat and crimp in one step, or two? Doing both at the same time can shave lead and swage a boolit, either of which can give you leading headaches. Seat in one step, crimp in another, and don't use the FCD.

3. I used to own numerous Lee handgun seating dies that swaged down my boolits. Now, someone else owns them.

[RobS]

Another option using your current dies without any modification: if you just want to see if you can seat and crimp in two stages without using the FCD simply take the guts out of the powder expander die and replace them with the FCD guts and adjusting screw. The inside dimensions of the powder/expander through die will work for the crimp sleeve that is in the FCD. If you don't want to take out the carbide ring from the FCD then a person can order just the powder/expander die body from lee for around $14.

Just a little for you to play around with.

[goste]

Hello, I think I had the same problem your talking about.. my Boolits were to fat, to fit the opening above the crimp shoulder, and were getting shaved above the crimp. I took the guts out of my die, and took a tapered reamer and opened up the area above the crimp rim. fixed my problem. I also have nothing good to say about the FCD....

Good luck

[emorris]

thanks RobS for your suggestion. swapping the die guts worked for me and I spent some time today developing the load. I began sizing to .356 but had alot of leading. I then sized to .358 on top of 3.5gn og titegroup. Velocity ranged form 1085 to 1244 in a eight shot string. I am still getting some leading that looked like a smear. The bullet design is the lee 120gn cone nose with regular grease grove. I used the LLA and lee sizer. The way the leading looks, it seems like the lube is running out of "luberness" halfway down the barrel. Has anyone used this boolit design in the 9mm.

[MtGun44]

LLA is using a very marginal lube.

Test your .358 diam 120 TC with hand applied regular lube like 50-50 NRA formula
(Javelina, etc, many brands) and you will get no leading. Hand apply about 5-10
until you decide to pan lube or get a lubrisizer.

I and friends have loaded many, many of these boolits and they lead near zero to
actually zero on all my various 9mms. This is an excellent choice in boolit design,
just poor/marginal lube in a caliber that is famous for being a 'problem child' with
boolits.

Fat diam, good design, good lube are required. You have done the first two well,
do number three and you will be there.

Bill

[AzShooter]

How do you get the 9 mm to come out of the mold big enough that you can size to .358? Don't they drop out at .356?

[casterofboolits]

I've been casting and shooting boolits for 37 years and have heard the old saw about using jacketed rounds to clean leading from the barrels. Even tried it a couple times.

Having competed in IPSC for 25 years I put over 100,000 rounds of 45 ACP, 38 Super and 9mm down range. The lessons I learned was that a boolit of good alloy and sized correctly for the barrel eliminated 99% of leading.

Bluedot was my magic powder for developing heavy cast boolit loads for the 38 Super behind a 160 grn RNBB (Magma mold) and then a Wilson designed 158 grn SWC (Saeco mold) showed no pressure signs in standard Colt barrels with the boolits sized .357 and no leading to speak of. I ran a test and did not clean my 38 Super barrel for 1250 rounds and the barrel cleand up with just a few swipes of a bore brush and Hoppes bore cleaner. I sized my 9mm at .357 for my Hi-Power. Again, minimal leading easily cleaned with bore brush and Hoppes.

My friend has put apprximatly 20,000 of my H&G 09-125-TCPB loaded with Bluedot thru his Glock 17 factory barrel with the same results.

[emorris]

How do you get the 9 mm to come out of the mold big enough that you can size to .358? Don't they drop out at .356?

The mold is a bit oversized. It does not drop boolits at the advertised .356diameter, but at .359 using wheel weight alloy and running the mold and alloy hot during casting and water droping.

[MtGun44]

NO - they drop at over .358 for me regardless of the name of the mold.

No need to water drop.

Bill

[prickett]

How do you get the 9 mm to come out of the mold big enough that you can size to .358? Don't they drop out at .356?

I use a .358 mould for my 9mm's (and also my .357's).

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

+1 on the .358" boolits in 9mm. I have had great luck and zero leading. I have been told that sizing/lubing immediately after casting also helps. If you wait until the boolit reaches it's maximun hardness and then size it you work softens the lead and this may cause leading (in higher pressure loads like 9mm)???? This is what I have been told, it may not be true...but I can tell you that I have had good luck with it. I water drop WWs and size them the same day. My 9 slugs at .3565". Good luck, and you will find it takes quite a bit of trial and error. Welcome to the wonderful world of casting!

[9.3X62AL]

I use that same boolit--Lee 120 TC with conventional lube groove--to great effect in my three 9mm pistols. I size in a Lyman 450 to .357" to match the throats, and lube with Javelina Alox/beeswax NRA formula. No leading with 92/6/2 alloy.

Your lube may be letting you down. Also, CONFIRM with a micrometer that your boolits are actually being sized to the nominal diameter given for the tools being used. Sizer dies often speak with forked tongues.