Warning, Newbie! .44 cast boolit help!?!

[Watermelon Wine]

Hello all!

Now here's a funny story that some of you may be able to relate to....

About 2 years ago I saw an offer I couldn't refuse, a rusty Martini Cadet in 218 Bee with a "poor" condition bore for $150.
Being newly married it was about all I could talk the minister for war and finance into... (Of course by the time I bought a "few little bits and pieces" for it I could have bought a new Sako...)

So I took it to my local smithy for a rebarrel to: "Whatever you've got laying around that's interesting" and am now the proud owner of a .44 remington magnum with a barrel about 20" long with about a 1:38" twist.

With Federal factory loads it shoots about 1.5 inch groups at 75m which I'm pretty happy (bigger holes make the gaps look smaller!) with but the real trouble started when I thought that the reloading caper looked like a bit of a laugh!

After what I thought was extensive internet research and some 220grain cast boolits I was given I found a plinker load and loaded a series in .2 of a grain increments and set up to find the most accurate load and live happily ever after.

After failing to print on a 50m target I eventually found that I was shooting 1' 3 shot groups at 15m. (In case you missed it, that was groups 1 FOOT across...)

After yet more research and some time with a chronograph I eventually dropped another 100 fps (more stability at subsonic or proper supersonic speeds, or so I'm told) and found a load that shot 1.5" at 75m again, JOY! I had discovered the satisfaction that the reloaders feel!

I took my new pride and joy rabbit shooting... as one does with a new .44... :redneck:and discovered another problem, how can a 44 have LESS knockdown power than a 22?!?

I've tried making homemade hollow points that either don't open, tumble, or shoot groups like a shotgun, or combinations of the above.

The molds I have so far are the Lee .430-310 (Flat nose gas-check) and the Lee .429-200 flat nose) and neither shoot as good as the 220grainers that I can't get any more of... I use Lee liquid alox for lube on all of these.

So my question, after all this life-story is; has anyone been through all this before, and eventually come up with a good rabbit load in their .44?

Will the 310 grainers stabilise if I drove them way faster? Do I need to buy gas checks to protect their bases as they are pure lead and naked at present? Should I 'slug' my bore and see if I need bigger boolits? Is my twist-rate too slow?

Any and all help and ideas will be much appreciated!

Regards,

Watermelon Wine!

[RobS]

Welcome to the forum.............Glad to have you here.

Many if not all of us have been down the same road so to speak. Lee Alox is not a great lube IMO but can be made to work well with plinker loads nicely and is a bit more tricky at mid house loads. A gas check will greatly improve the situation upon using alox with mid house and upper loads. The Lee 310 grain bulle twith normal lube can be pushed out to mid house levels I know for sure with decent accruacy (2" from a 7 1/2 barrel @ 25 yards) and can be under 2" easily with a GC and increased velocity. The big meplat on that bullet really is more difficult to stabilize at slower speeds and such a bullet usually requires more velocity to stabilize. The Lee 200 grain bullet as shot ok at around 2" with a revolver, but not as good as the 310 at 1100 fps. However the 240 grain Lee TL bullet design does well at lower velocities and one may be able to push mid house loads if the bullet was double coated with alox. Of the three Lee 44 mag designs I pick the 310 with a GC and velocities over 1050 fps followed by the 240 if you are using alox followed by the 200. However if not using alox then the 200 before the 240 TL design.

[longbow]

Not too sure I can be a lot of help but I will pass on some of my .44 issues/fixes.

First a question or two:

- have you slugged the bore to determine groove diameter?
- What powder and charge are you using?
- Are you using gas checks on the boolits?
- What velocity are you getting?
- Is your bore leaded?

Now, my story. I have an 1894 Marlin .44 mag with microgroove barrel and 1:38" twist.

I started with some factory loads that shot fairly well then bought myself a Lyman 429421 Keith style SWC mould. I got mediocre to poor accuracy of 4" groups at 50 yards. I also got a lot of leading.

After much messing about not getting very far regardless of load, I slugged the bore and found that I had a 0.4315" groove and was shooting a 0.429" boolit. Bad fit = poor accuracy and leading.

Once I got a mould that cast 0.434" accuracy improved and leading about disappeared.

Don't know the source of your barrel but Marlins tend to be sloppy so many .44 boolit moulds do not cast large enough. Make sure you have good boolit fit ~ at least 0.001" over groove diameter. If you have to lap the mould to suit then do that or buy a mould that casts large enough.

Heavy boolits = long. Long needs fast twist to stabilize. I have been largely unsuccessful getting accuracy from boolits over about 265 grs. in my 1:38" twist Marlin. They do okay to 50 yards or so but lose stability shortly after ~ at least with any cast boolits I have tried and Hornady "J" bullets of 300 gr.

Some people have good success with the Lee 310 gr. and to be honest I have not tried that one but I think you would do better with a mid range boolit of 220 to 265 gr.

If you are using the Lee 310 gr. then it should be pushed hard in the 1:38" twist barrel. The faster it goes, the happier it will be. The 200 gr. should be much happier at slower speeds.

I would expect your 200 gr. should do well so if you haven't, check the boolit diameter to make sure it is a good fit.

If you are not using gas checks on gas check shank boolits then use gas checks.

If you are using gas checks, make sure they are seated square on the boolit base.

If the bore is leaded, make sure you clean it all out then start again with gas checked boolits and good boolit fit.

That is about all I got.

Longbow

[Watermelon Wine]

Hi Guys! Thanks for the replies!

So there's hope yet!

Sounds like I'll have to buy some gas-checks for the 310 grainers and drive 'em harder.
I'll be able to search around here to find a good lube recipe to try.

The bore is clean of copper fouling, I even took the barrel out of it and scrubbed from the breech end with a bronze brush.

I don't know what I'm looking for for leading, but lots of black stuff comes out on the patch after the solvent?

Powders used are different with different boolit weights, (obviously) but I've tried Trail Boss, AP90 (discontinued), and AR 2205.
Most accurate load so far is around 8 grains of AP90 under the 220 grain keith style projectile of unknown origin (about 1050fps).
I've had no success with trail boss under the 200grain Lee's and a little success with the AR2205 and the 310's which seem to either cloverleaf at 25m or hit about 6" high and sideways!

I have recovered dozens of boolits from the dirt around the place and the rifling marks are sometimes evenly scored and sometimes appear ever so slightly lighter on one side but this could be due to turning after impact.

I'm thinking I'm going to have to figure out some way to slug the bore, I don't have access to round balls of the right size, can I whack a .429 pure lead slug with a hammer to make it a bit oversize and send that through?

[Southern Son]

For plinking loads in my Marlin, I have been loading 10grains of AP100 and a 200grain RNFP. Accuracy is so-so, but that is cause the commercial cast bullets are rubbish. I have a mould from a group buy comming that I have high hopes for.

I had it out the range today with 240 grain jacketed hollow points (Hornady and Sierra). With 21grains of 2400 I was getting 1700fps and rubbish accuracy (4 inches at 50 meters).

I have to slug the barrel of my rifle, as well, but I don't have anything that I am willing to force through the barrel.

[44man]

Not a whole lot you can do. The 1 in 38 twist is the worst thing ever hung on a .44.
I have been tempted to try round balls! :holysheep

[runfiverun]

and that black stuff is the alox.

[Lee]

Sounds like ...slug it. And then Lee-ment the mold if required. You can open them up, you just can't close them back down.....

[NSP64]

Welcome watermellon wine.

I agree with 44 man the 1-38 is horrible for heavy boolits. I have had good success with 16.gr 4227 under a 200gr pill

To slug your barrel cast a bullet and smack it with a hammer(not too much) then you can tap it down the barrel.