Duelling pistols

[arclight]

I want to put together a cased set of single-shot pistols for a gift.
Basically, I want to re-create a semi-correct "duelling pistol" set from the 1800s.

I recall that CVA and other makers used to sell single-shot percussion pistol kits for very reasonable prices. When I look at my BACO/Cabelas/other catalogs, I can't find anything under $200.

Did these suddenly get expensive? Any idea where I could get 2 beater pistols that match for a re-work job? I'm planning to put some inlays, brass fittings and maybe a checker job+oil finish on them.

Thanks!

John

[mooman76]

They never have been what I would concider cheap, concidering what little it takes to put one together. Try Bass pros and a few other places and there is always the action sites like auctionarms and and gunbroker. I think it's mostly price and demand. Not much call for them. I picked one up at a gun show a few years ago for $10 because someone didn't care for it. After I cleaned it up I hated to fire it, it turned out so good but I had to fire it!

[max it]

Arc, Have you been to Evan's Gunsmithing lately?
They have replica set of the Burr / Hamilton duel.
Or is that what gave you the inspiration?

Happy Independence Day

Max

[waksupi]

For a decent pistol, you will most likely end up at around $250+ for parts.

[northmn]

For a decent pistol, you will most likely end up at around $250+ for parts.

I concur except to say that we are talking about parts for a more scratch build than a kit. Some of the kit pistols they use to sell also had stocks that had the workability of pine and may not lend themselves to checkering. Making a cased set of pistols is its own challenge. Some were even made mirror imaged as in right and left handed. Good luck on your search and hopefully you can find what you want.

Northmn

[Southron Sanders]

Well, If you are going to follow the "Irish Code," that calls for flintlock, smoothbore pistols of a minimum of .50 caliber.

Dueling pistols were of the highest quality. IF I were going to put a set together, I would order two pistol kits from Dixie Gun Works, Track of the Wolf or a similar supplier. I would have a case made that used a red or green velvet lining AND would include all of the accessories; i.e., powder flast, bullet mould, etc along with a copy of "Code Duello."

BAck in my college days I did a research paper on Dueling in the Old South. The duel I liked the most was between two politicians that absoutely hated each other. The duel took place across the Savannah River (on the South Carolina side) from Savannah, GA in 1867.

The wepons employed were, DOUBLE BARREL, muzzleloading, 10 Gague shotguns (loaded with buckshot) at 10 PACES!

How do I say this delicately-well, here goes: The duel was a "draw." That is, the good citizens of Savannah were the real winners because they were pernamently rid of two bad politicians!

[northmn]

Several famous duels in the South. the most famous was Burr and Hamilton. I read an article where on investigation of Hamilton's pistols that they were single set. They now think Burr was not the bad insividual they originally thought as he did not know they were set triggers. They think that Hamilton may have been a bit nervous and set his off prematurely. Burr was critisized for his lack of honor by shooting Hamilton when they thought he shot up into the air to show honor was served and did not want bloodshed. Old Hickory was also a famous dueler and was in more than a dozen. His pistols were over 60 cal. Soem were made to shoot to the right or left so the owner could compensate but the other would not know. Others had hidden rifling. Very interesting subject that has permitted me to get windy and to drift from the main subject. Dueling pistols were built for people that could afford very expensive pistols but there were also cased sets of regular pistols.

Northmn

[mooman76]

A friend I used to shoot with occationally has a match set he paid allot for. He has a rather large collection of guns and it was still growing last I seen. Anyway his had sequencel serial numbers and was from the 1700's. They were special made for someone.

[NickSS]

I have a friend who was a descendant of Sir William Peperel who lead the British and Colonial forces when they captured Fort Luiseburg from the French During the French and Indian War. He had Peperal's Cased set of Dulling pistols that were passed down in the Family. I handeled them and there is no doubt that they were made by a Master Gunsmith in England in the 1750s. They were smooth bore and around 60 caliber and pointed like a finger when you through it up one handed. We fired them with balls cast from the original mold using powder charges from the original measure. There were no sights but at 20 paces there was abwsolutely no problem hitting a man sized target by just pointing and pulling the trigger. Oh yes one other thing the flint locks on those pistols went off faster than any other flinter I ever fired. I have never seen anything built today that compares to them. Unfortunately they were stollen from the Old Gael Museum in York Maine shortly after my buddy lent them to them for a showing.

[northmn]

I would guess that the pistols from that era had no rear sight and a small volume powder measure. They were to be pointed not aimed. The locks were also likely smaller than most rifle locks.

Northmn

[Geraldo]

I've always liked these:

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/?item=ArmiCategoriaDettaglio&CategoriaId=40&lang=en

Don't forget Andrew Jackson's duels.

[FL-Flinter]

Duelling pistols come in all sorts of flavors and they're not all created equally. The fit, balance and pointability are just part of it, the barrels, locks & triggers must also be of extremely high quality and ultra reliable. Depending on origin of the guns and/or builder, the barrel profiles can be straight or tapered octagon, octagon to round, round to octagon, straight round or tapered round. The bores can be smooth, rifled or scratch-rifled. A basic parts set will run $750 for the two pistols only with generic straight octagon barrels, plain wood, no frills, no box and no accouterments. A decent-quality parts set for the pair of pistols only runs $900-1200 in addition to the case & accouterments. Keep in mind that life of the purchaser was on the line every time these guns were used and thus the level of quality was often directly proportional to the purchaser's lifespan and one must also factor in the bragging rights when they were not in use.

[waksupi]

Something else people seem to miss. Most who have not built many guns, assume a pistol is an easy project. Not. If anything, I consider a pistol more difficult to build than a long gun.

[northmn]

Something else people seem to miss. Most who have not built many guns, assume a pistol is an easy project. Not. If anything, I consider a pistol more difficult to build than a long gun.

Amen

Northmn

[FL-Flinter]

Pistols are absolutely more difficult than a rifle, although smaller, depending on the style, they can easily eat-up as much, if not more, time than building a rifle. My clients tell me that most builders won't even consider building generic pistols let alone custom but after having shot comp & hunted with pistols, it's in my blood!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Pistol/pistol1.jpg

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

The Code Duello wasn't necessarily followed in the US. Several US re-writes were done to the code. The western frontier (trans- Mississippi) adapted the code to fit it purposes. The below is a long read but it does give a good perspective on how the Code Duello was morphed on the frontier.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-EafIWg52d0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=dueling+and+violence+in+missouri&source=bl&ots=AQQJN19jTF&sig=spda9eBivDDFG2D6aORzk1hD0fQ&hl=en&ei=VP81TMeAHoL_8Aaem5SDDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=dueling%20and%20violence%20in%20missouri&f=false

[Southron Sanders]

Get a catalog from "The Rifle Shoppe" they sell parts for dozens and dozens of flintlock pistols. My experience with them is that it takes them about a year to deliver but they now claim that they can get most parts out in 60-90 days.

They also have an "on-line" catalog, so you can Google them up.

[KCSO]

Why not buy parts from say Track and build something nice. You start with garbage and no matter how you decorate it it's still garbage. A good pistol needs a good lock and a good barrel neither of which you are going to get with a CVA, ect. A good pistol barrel with a 1-18 to 1-22 twist isn't that much and a nice semi inlet stock won't break the bank either.

[northmn]

Why not buy parts from say Track and build something nice. You start with garbage and no matter how you decorate it it's still garbage. A good pistol needs a good lock and a good barrel neither of which you are going to get with a CVA, ect. A good pistol barrel with a 1-18 to 1-22 twist isn't that much and a nice semi inlet stock won't break the bank either.

In principle I agree. You can put a lot of work into something of lesser quality and still have a lower quality item. Checkering a CVA stock might be a real challenge as some of that wood had about the density of pine. It was not a good grade maple. Another excellent source for pistol kits and barrels is Muzzle Loading Builders Supply. They include a few smoothbores that intrigue me.

Northmn

[FL-Flinter]

I've seen a lot of $150 guns assembled from $900 kits ... more than I care to think about ... the quality of the parts is only the first step and quality parts never make up for crappy assembly. Duelling pistols are not cobbled together **** from whatever one found in the barn, they were purpose-built for life & death fighting as well as status symbol. They encompassed combining the highest quality parts and the highest quality craftsmanship and were not simply a couple of utilitarian horse pistols stuck in a fancy box.

[Southron Sanders]

I note that S & S Firearms in the Bronx is selling a reprint of a 19th Century pamplet on dueling. The pamplet goes into detail as what constitutes an "insult," how to send a "Challenge" to a duel, how to "Reply" if you are Challenged, duties of the "Seconds at the duel, etc.

Obviously, the pamplet makes fascinating reading about a time when "Gentlemen" settled "differences" without the use of shylock lawyers.

[northmn]

I suspect gentlemanly behavior may have been more common also.

Northmn