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morrisammo
07-02-2010, 11:16 AM
FROm anyther forume,,


The new rage in Europe are painted bullets.
These are lead bullets coated with polymer paint.
Do you guys uses it in the US ?
I tried some in one of my SV, in 180 grains from Dynamic Arms, and accuracy is very good.

I looked at the web site,,,

Hmmm how do they get it on the bullets evenly???

waksupi
07-02-2010, 11:46 AM
Sounds like a gimmick to me. Why bother? Are these on cast boolits, or those other types?

morrisammo
07-02-2010, 11:49 AM
Why bother? less smoke...
clean gun,,, for us 3 Gun guys,,, we shoot lots of bullets,, and with this you can shoot them out of a Glock factory barrel,, with no problem,,

this could be the biggest thing to happen with cast bullets in a long long time!

357maximum
07-02-2010, 11:50 AM
Sounds almost like them evil NyClad bullets that rose from the depths of Haites just to kill cops.

morrisammo
07-02-2010, 11:53 AM
that is Funny!!

they can be any color you want!! woman,, could buy them to match,, their shoes we would be rich!!

waksupi
07-02-2010, 12:15 PM
Why would this make a difference for shooting them from a Glock?

David2011
07-02-2010, 12:16 PM
Not a gimmick at all and nothing like the teflon coated armor piercing bullets. They are regular cast boolits with a coating applied. They reduce smoke considerably at a lower cost than jacketed and isolate the lead from your fingers while handling them. See http://www.bayoubullets.net/ I know of several top level shooters that you might see on the Outdoor Channel who use them.

David



Please think about what you write if you don't know anything about the subject. Don't give the anti crowd any more fodder.

felix
07-02-2010, 12:54 PM
The get it on the boolits evenly by controlling the viscosity of the polymer itself. ... felix

morrisammo
07-02-2010, 01:31 PM
"""""""""controlling the viscosity of the polymer itself.""""""

Do they spray them,,, tumble them,,, how to they dry them?

where do you buy this stuff??? is it in a can?

is it a two part thing,,??

on the Glock thing,,, it has been said that,, cast bullets in a Glock,, will blow up,, so many folks will not load them,, for a Glock,
I have shot them in a Mod 21 for years before I heard this,, and i have friends that shoot 9mm 147 fp BB,, lead with no problem,, in a Glock barrel,,

most folks ar being safe,, than rishing sorry..

andrew375
07-02-2010, 03:00 PM
What makes you think it is a paint? Looks to me like a liquid dip lube like Rooster jacket.

Currently I use a commercial liquid floor polish that claims in the blurb to be an "emulsion of advanced mix of polymers and waxes". This is just a wax sealer in a water suspension that is used for lino type floors, put it on wet and then buff to a shine when dry. It says "25% solids" on the label and lists carnuba as one of the waxes. Similar products are marketed for car polishes, just look for ones that you add to water, spray on and buff to shine when dry.

How I do my bullets is I pile them, 300 to 500 at a time, on to a piece of heavy gauge polythene sheet. I pour on a couple of table spoon full of the (undiluted) polish and then roll the bullets around in it by picking up the corners of the sheet and tipping it too and fro. When they all appear be good and wet I put the sheet back down and spread the bullets out to dry. Every half hour or so I'll go back out and repeat the swirling the bullets around on the sheet to re wet the bullets. Drying takes about 3 hours give or take. Once dry you can repeat the above to give an extra coat.

The agitation bit is important, not only to get the most lube on the bullets but also to prevent them sticking together and to the polythene.

This lube works with all types of cast bullets. At present I use it with 250 Keith SWCs and 320 gr. LBT bullets with excellent results in both my Ruger Super Red Hawk and Win M94 at velocities exceeding 1600 fps. It is also reputed to work well with paper patches.

morrisammo
07-02-2010, 03:05 PM
What makes you think it is a paint? Looks to me like a liquid dip lube like Rooster jacket.

Currently I use a commercial liquid floor polish that claims in the blurb to be an "emulsion of advanced mix of polymers and waxes". This is just a wax sealer in a water suspension that is used for lino type floors, put it on wet and then buff to a shine when dry. It says "25% solids" on the label and lists carnuba as one of the waxes. Similar products are marketed for car polishes, just look for ones that you add to water, spray on and buff to shine when dry.

How I do my bullets is I pile them, 300 to 500 at a time, on to a piece of heavy gauge polythene sheet. I pour on a couple of table spoon full of the (undiluted) polish and then roll the bullets around in it by picking up the corners of the sheet and tipping it too and fro. When they all appear be good and wet I put the sheet back down and spread the bullets out to dry. Every half hour or so I'll go back out and repeat the swirling the bullets around on the sheet to re wet the bullets. Drying takes about 3 hours give or take. Once dry you can repeat the above to give an extra coat.

The agitation bit is important, not only to get the most lube on the bullets but also to prevent them sticking together and to the polythene.

This lube works with all types of cast bullets. At present I use it with 250 Keith SWCs and 320 gr. LBT bullets with excellent results in both my Ruger Super Red Hawk and Win M94 at velocities exceeding 1600 fps. It is also reputed to work well with paper patches.

I will have to shop,, for some,, floor wax,, and give that a try!!

Jim

geargnasher
07-03-2010, 02:54 PM
Yup, lead blows up Glocks every time! That's why there are so few living boolit casters. :twisted:

I wish I had an edit button for every time I read " I heard that ....blah blah. "

Here's some more good ones: A drop of sweat falling into a pot of molten lead will cause it to explode. Tumbling loaded ammo creates a bomb or at least deteriorates powder. Shooting bullets made from old wheel weights will ruin your barrel. Dacron will ring your chamber. All common misconceptions, and because one dude who didn't know what he was doing shot a glock that was leading terribly and didn't pay attention to the increasing pressures shot it until it finally blew up. I guess there is a reason my Wife's hair dryer has this warning label on the side: DO NOT USE WHILE SLEEPING.

Sorry for the rant, Morrisammo, it wasn't directed at you but those you hear these things from. It's always wise to err on the side of caution in this potentially dangerous business of reloading, casting, and shooting, but there's enough unqualified misinformation being propagated about our hobby without our help.

Gear

Southern Son
07-04-2010, 02:21 AM
Down Under, you can only buy cast bullets with this coating. I have not seen any with wax lube in the grooves in a couple of years. What I am using in my 686 at the moment are 125gr Conical flat points made buy Hawkesbury River Bullet Co. They used to be painted black (they called them Black Hawkes), but now they are Greeny/Blue. No leading, even up to 1500fps. Other companies are using black finish. Another brand (cannot remember the name), use gold coloured finish.

azcruiser
07-04-2010, 03:55 AM
I was getting them back in the 1990 from one of my accounts in Germany FRANKONIA JAG
Wolfsburg they were gold .think their tumbled like molly
Anyone ever try powder coating paint in a tumbler ??

leftiye
07-04-2010, 04:05 AM
So....... What is this stuff? Also - Andrew - What KIND of floor coating are you using (brand and name?). Please.

fryboy
07-04-2010, 06:17 AM
painted ....coated in some way .... anyone recall the winchester lubaloy ? or the blue barnes ? yup should work just as well for cast , and it should be less messy than moly !! now there's a plus ! and the soon to be next fad ? camo boolits so they dont see them coming :kidding: in truth the spray moly ( made by various companies) and the spray graphite ( such as midway's drop out ) work to some degree tho the applying equally was always the hard part ( at least for me ) i'm guessing that primer and bullet sealer is a lacquer or polymer of some kind and while cold it's hard but under heat and pressure would be fluid to some extent ....

morrisammo
07-04-2010, 08:31 AM
http://ammo.dynamic-arms.com/

look at the pic's of the bullets on the web pagee,,,

BLUE

myg30
07-04-2010, 08:51 AM
I guess one more step in boolit making be ok if it saves time cleaning barrels.

If you cast several weights, same style boolit, Color code them save time sorting them when they all fall on the floor.

I think Precision bullet here in the states has the coated boolits also.

Mike

fryboy
07-04-2010, 11:55 AM
plz note that the bases arent covered and one in the center shows this ,another to the left shows a "flashing" of blue polymer ...

mdi
07-04-2010, 12:00 PM
Interesting, to say the least. But, how can we get them? What do they cost? No dealers in US.

morrisammo
07-04-2010, 04:30 PM
I saw that the base was plain lead,,, so I'm guessing that they size the bullet, then spray them,

Ok I can do that,, but where would I get this type od poly paint???


Hmmmmmm

Jim

fryboy
07-04-2010, 04:36 PM
the true question is just what kind off plastic paint is it ??... looks alot like ford hi heat engine blue but i doubt if it's that easy lolz ( tho i did use the chevy orange-not red orange- for my lyman 45),barnes blue coating is similar ..wonder if duracoat would work ...... or perhaps epoxy paint .....most paints are a plastic of sorts ermm poylmer of sorts lolz oil based enamel would surely provide some kind of lubricity i would think tho i freely admit i'm in no hurry to try it lolz do we have a paint maker on board ? i suppose u could engineer such a paint but it's beyond me ATM

buck1
07-05-2010, 12:40 PM
I have been looking for this stuff for years! bought some Fieochiee( SPELL?) .455 Webly ammo with something like this in black on it. It worked well enugh. If anyone has a link to the lube /paint please post it. Thanks...Buck

sargenv
07-05-2010, 12:45 PM
I saw some of these coated bullets at the Iinternational Revolver Championships.. (IRC). There were two aussie shooters that had blue and green coated lead bullets and the smoked considerably less than the JPW coated RN's I was shooting. I thought it was a novel concept and they tell me it is very common where they are from back in "Oz". Just a different way to look at things. They buy them that way. I saw no issue with accuracy issues out of their 627's.

riverwalker76
07-05-2010, 08:32 PM
My question is this ....

would you have to test entirely new loading data for them? ie ... moly bullets vs. naked copper

Elkins45
07-05-2010, 08:56 PM
My question is this ....

would you have to test entirely new loading data for them? ie ... moly bullets vs. naked copper

I would think it would be like changing any other lube formula. My experience has been that rifles are much more sensitive to that kind of thing than lead boolets thru handguns are. YMMV, of course.

They would be interesting to try, but my interest would only be sustained if there were a practical way to apply the coating to my own homemade ones.

David2011
07-05-2010, 10:25 PM
I was visiting with the owner of Bayou Bullets today. He said he tumble coats and then bakes his finish. Out of respect for his proprietary process I didn't ask too many questions. The bullets are slippery to handle and completely covered in the coating including the base. He had cast over 12,000 boolits for the day when I stopped by his shop around 1:00 p.m.

David

The10mmKid
07-06-2010, 12:07 AM
I'm going to start experimenting with this product.

http://www.qclubricants.com/msds/PDS/Lubribond220.pdf
File Size = 34k

I'm trying to conquer LEE TL before moving on to this. One challenge at a time.

'da Kid

morrisammo
07-06-2010, 09:52 AM
Yup, lead blows up Glocks every time! That's why there are so few living boolit casters. :twisted:

I wish I had an edit button for every time I read " I heard that ....blah blah. "

Here's some more good ones: A drop of sweat falling into a pot of molten lead will cause it to explode. Tumbling loaded ammo creates a bomb or at least deteriorates powder. Shooting bullets made from old wheel weights will ruin your barrel. Dacron will ring your chamber. All common misconceptions, and because one dude who didn't know what he was doing shot a glock that was leading terribly and didn't pay attention to the increasing pressures shot it until it finally blew up. I guess there is a reason my Wife's hair dryer has this warning label on the side: DO NOT USE WHILE SLEEPING.

Sorry for the rant, Morrisammo, it wasn't directed at you but those you hear these things from. It's always wise to err on the side of caution in this potentially dangerous business of reloading, casting, and shooting, but there's enough unqualified misinformation being propagated about our hobby without our help.

Gear


It is ALL good I hear all that **** too.....
about Cast bullets are not good for this that and the other thnig,,, and then in a match I whooop their ass with them,,, oppppps the CAST Bullets must not have gotten your TEXT msg,, :razz:

Elkins45
07-06-2010, 10:42 AM
I'm going to start experimenting with this product.

http://www.qclubricants.com/msds/PDS/Lubribond220.pdf
File Size = 34k

I'm trying to conquer LEE TL before moving on to this. One challenge at a time.

'da Kid

Very interesting but it seems quite expensive and has a short shelf life. How exactly would you apply it? Tumble, spray or dip? I would want to use a method that minimizes waste as much as possible given the cost.

357maximum
07-06-2010, 12:12 PM
Google up "PRO-TEC POWDER PAINT" I use it on jigheads for fishing.

application is your problem though, the powder will not stick to anything not already hot or electrostatically charged while it is in powder form. Once it is applied and then oven cured you can beat the lead head flat with a hammer and not chip this stuff.

Not sure how it would work in a gunbarrel and even nasty solvents like MEK and trichlorethelene have nil effect on it once cured...........YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN and I would try it on a spare barrel the first time out if you go this route.

mdi
07-06-2010, 12:13 PM
I've tried a spray on lube sold by Caterpillar for lubing booms/outriggers, etc. It's a dry coating that looked like graphite, but according to the M.S.D.S. there was no graphite in it. I have coated some 240 LSW and shot them, as 44 Specials, in my 629 with no appearant leading. I just did it once, for 20 rounds, and will have to do another experiment a little more in depth. There may be some advantage to using Cat. spray but it's expensive and time consuming, but there was a lot of it laying around at work. I just tried it for polisi and grins...

morrisammo
07-06-2010, 02:08 PM
http://www.ares-gun.sk/?lang=english


Pretty

Come on,,, someone needs to know how to get our hands on this type of paint,,

I feel the need for PRETTY bullets!!!

andrew375
07-06-2010, 04:04 PM
Interesting thread this.

First off the floor polish I spoke of is for industrial use by cleaning staff where I work, they use it by the gallon. I have never seen it retail. I have seen similar products sold laminate flooring. Again look the label for "dilute with water, apply with a mop, leave to dry then buff to a shine." Also it has to say something about percentages (25% minimum) of solids. Again I've seen similar products being retailed for car polishes.

See here for more info on wax emulsions (http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/wax/index.aspx?id=)

I first got to know of these emulsions in the early 180's with a lube called IWOX sold by North Devon Firearms Services, this company may be familiar to some of you as makers of reloading dies and turned cases. This was a real boon for lubing the thousands of 230 gr. bullets I shot in practical pistol. I believe a similar product to Rooster Jacket (http://www.roosterlabs.com/products.html) so just buy that. It really does go a long way.

The problem I see with the "polymer paints" is that they all appear to need baking on so you have to use an oven and all the hassle that involves. Plus also if you are depending on precipitation hardening (heat treatment) for your bullet hardness then this cooking will upset that. Also, is this the same stuff Barnes are using on thier bullets?

The lubribond product is worth investigating. I've used lots of similar products on my bullets over the years since reading an article in HandLoader about Bullet Master Lube, which I believe is still available from Brownells. The stuff I use at present is in an anonymous red tin and came from an industrial lubricant supplier listed in the yellow pages. Just dip the bullet in and ten seconds later the coating is dry and ready to load.

And here's the thing. All these lubricants are widely available, just not to the retail market. If you look in trade catalogues you will see many of these items. The downside is they come in really large pack sizes. The floor polish I currently use comes in 5 litre jugs, enough to do several hundred thousand bullets.

leadman
07-06-2010, 08:51 PM
The stuff barnes used was from race car engines. From what Barnes said of the blue coating is it was sprayed on the engine components to reduce friction. I think it was baked on also.

As a side note Barnes Triple shock with the grooves is not an original idea. Read an article in an old American Rifleman by Elmer Keith. Seems Keith's friend was a machinist and made bullets like this in the 30's but back then it was labor intensive and too expensive. Elmer said they were a good bullet though. His friend was one of the OKH crew.

I would be interested in trying the paint on my boolits. If the environmental folks see this we will all be painting our boolits!

Dannix
07-07-2010, 06:41 AM
I guess there is a reason my Wife's hair dryer has this warning label on the side: DO NOT USE WHILE SLEEPING. [smilie=l:

If I recall correctly, there was an insightful thread here about shooting Glocks with lead. Apparently there was more too it than just the type of rifling, but also the chamber spec or some such that was beyond me at the time I read it and still is. Can't seem to find it right now. Maybe it was a rabbit trail thread with a deceptive title.

63 Shiloh
07-07-2010, 07:21 AM
Yes, as stated, these coated boolits are widely used down here in Australia.

A couple of names to google:

Westcastings,

Hawksbury River projectiles,

Top Score cast bullets.

The coating is not moly.

The ones I use, Westcasting, are very consistent and well made boolits. There are different colour coatings for specific purposes. Including a boolit that is designed to work in Glocks with no leading.

In fact, they are great to load for as nothing rubs off on your fingers and no lube to clog dies.

I now use them exclusively for my IPSC gun, in .38 Super. I get excellent accuracy and absolutely no leading....ever!

Still use traditional boolits with lube for my .38 spec, .357 mag, 45/70, 45LC.

A mate uses Hawksbury River boolits for his .460 S&W, he uses the boolit with the 'high speed' coating. he also gets excellent results with these non-checked boolits at max vel.

I am surprised to see that these boolits are not well know in the US.

A smart man would make some coin if he could import these boolits into the US, they would take off quickly I imagine.

Food for thought for a US based FFL holder.

Mike

oldtoolsniper
07-07-2010, 07:44 AM
And to think I finally figured out how to make Felix lube! Suppose I'll have to trade off the lube sizers and dies so I can get a paint booth and respirators.

trapper9260
07-07-2010, 08:23 AM
Yup, lead blows up Glocks every time! That's why there are so few living boolit casters. :twisted:

I wish I had an edit button for every time I read " I heard that ....blah blah. "

Here's some more good ones: A drop of sweat falling into a pot of molten lead will cause it to explode. Tumbling loaded ammo creates a bomb or at least deteriorates powder. Shooting bullets made from old wheel weights will ruin your barrel. Dacron will ring your chamber. All common misconceptions, and because one dude who didn't know what he was doing shot a glock that was leading terribly and didn't pay attention to the increasing pressures shot it until it finally blew up. I guess there is a reason my Wife's hair dryer has this warning label on the side: DO NOT USE WHILE SLEEPING.

Sorry for the rant, Morrisammo, it wasn't directed at you but those you hear these things from. It's always wise to err on the side of caution in this potentially dangerous business of reloading, casting, and shooting, but there's enough unqualified misinformation being propagated about our hobby without our help.

Gear

I have hear the same from some people about casting. I was even told that by a gunsmith that alot of people stay away from casting due to what was just writtien on this Quote. Alot of people dose not have a clue on casting in the first place. My farther is the one that taught my brother and me about casting when we where young to make fishing sinkers for fresh water and salt water . The ones for salt water we had no molds and made our own by taken sand and wet it with water and then take newspaper for the shape you want for the sinker. The you pour the lead in the the shape that was made in the sand with the paper as a liner. after it is cool down we would drill a hole in them for the line to go in.My Dad had work in a foundry at on time and told me of things that he seen happend.

WILCO
07-07-2010, 08:27 AM
YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN and I would try it on a spare barrel the first time out if you go this route.

I'll just stick with the conventional lubes available. Anyone else notice the dude in the video put a loaded gun to his head whilst putting on earmuffs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=uS-MUUaHx78

riverwalker76
07-07-2010, 09:50 AM
Google up "PRO-TEC POWDER PAINT" I use it on jigheads for fishing.

application is your problem though, the powder will not stick to anything not already hot or electrostatically charged while it is in powder form. Once it is applied and then oven cured you can beat the lead head flat with a hammer and not chip this stuff.

Not sure how it would work in a gunbarrel and even nasty solvents like MEK and trichlorethelene have nil effect on it once cured...........YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN and I would try it on a spare barrel the first time out if you go this route.


That's what it reminded me of ... just couldn't remember where I'd seen it. It looks like the same paint they put on Tungsten weights. It sure is slick.

357maximum
07-07-2010, 11:17 AM
That's what it reminded me of ... just couldn't remember where I'd seen it. It looks like the same paint they put on Tungsten weights. It sure is slick.

It even comes in glow-in-the-dark.........[smilie=p:TRACERS ANYONE?:bigsmyl2:

Due to this thread I have tried coating a few boolits with Pro-TEC..........if the stuff actuallly worked shooting wise, applying a consistent coat would still be a major hurdle. I cured a few also and was actually able to post size the boolit and it came out even slicker feeling in the sized area.

The only thing I know for sure is that a Flo. Orange boolit sticking out of a nickel 357mag case looks both neat and odd.:veryconfu

Windy City Kid
07-07-2010, 11:39 AM
I would love to know what this coating is.

Someone has to know what this coating is and how to apply it?

357maximum,

Do you really think it is the Pro-Tec powder coating?

Have you shot any of the boolits you coated yet?

Elkins45
07-07-2010, 01:34 PM
The only thing I know for sure is that a Flo. Orange boolit sticking out of a nickel 357mag case looks both neat and odd.:veryconfu

I would LOVE to see a picture of that!

oldtoolsniper
07-07-2010, 02:08 PM
With powder coating static electricity is what makes a nice even coat of the powder and then it is baked on at somewhere around 400 degrees. I just did some in red by dipping and it's way to thick.

azcruiser
07-07-2010, 04:49 PM
Anyone want to try = TEFLON/MOLY OVEN CURE, GUN FINISH
Mfr:BROWNELLS
Price:$32.99
I have a can if I can find it .Will try doing some 45 200 gr swc and some 6.5 x 55 lead sleds
should be fun ?

357maximum
07-07-2010, 08:15 PM
i would love to see a picture of that!

tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

357maximum
07-07-2010, 08:24 PM
I would love to know what this coating is.

Someone has to know what this coating is and how to apply it?

357maximum,

Do you really think it is the Pro-Tec powder coating?

Have you shot any of the boolits you coated yet?



I have not a clue if it is the same stuff or not, but it looks the same to my eyes.


I shot 6 of em with the 4 inch barrel installed on my Dan Wesson 15 and hit the 50 yard rock with em all. I then took the barrel off for a good inspection.......looks fine by me. This was done on some 150 grain RNFP BRP boolits..........seems like it could work, but the application process is a major [smilie=1: . Electrically charging the boolit would seem to be the right way....but that is beyond me for the time being...........I have enough unfinished projects.:roll:

I post sized them after application and 20 minute 350 degree cure by pushing them through a lee style push through to make my uneven application look better and to theoretically make them more round. Seemed to have worked OK.

Dannix
07-07-2010, 09:12 PM
tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Looks like one of those ridiculously overpriced mall-ninja rounds. [smilie=l:

Elkins45
07-07-2010, 10:25 PM
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23495&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1278548075

That's ridiculously cool!

morrisammo
07-08-2010, 09:36 AM
I'm glad you guys are chiming in,,, it took s bit for the,, thread to catch,,,
but hey,,, I still think,,, this is the biggest thing to happen to booooolet casting in,,, ????????? since,,, wax lube,,, whenever that was,,

I'm going to check out the Australian web sites,,

Doby45
07-08-2010, 09:40 AM
How did you actually apply the Pro-Tec? What was the method to your madness. The boolit looks great. I might get a jar of the powder paint just to have some wild boolits.

The10mmKid
07-08-2010, 12:43 PM
The facility I work at has a dept. that applies Epoxy Powder Coating . . . . aka Powder Paint.
One method is dipping the preheated part in a tank of powder agitated by warm dry air. The powder in the tank has the appearance of boiling. Parts are probably in the tank for ~5secs.
The second method is static spray. This is a similar setup
http://www.gbmindustries.com/pcat-gifs/products-small/powder-soating1.jpg
Again, our parts are preheated, then sprayed in a draft booth and on to the curing oven. The spray comes out like a fog and the 'dust' moves towards the parts and even wraps around it. Pretty weird to watch.

Don't quote me on the temps, but I recall the preheat to be ~400degF and the cure temp at ~350.

I think we preheat for a more uniform flowout of the paint.

I can ask the painters any questions you may have.

Painting some at work is not out-of-the-question, I just need to be judicious with the timing and requests for assistance.
Don't think I haven't already showed an interest. A lot of 'government' items get coated as favors, although I've not inquired about boolits.

'da Kid

357maximum
07-08-2010, 12:47 PM
Doby

I heated up a dozen boolits to 300 degrees in the oven. Took the now hot boolits and laid them on a cold steel lid from a holiday "tin" and sprinkled the powder on and over them while moving them about until it looked like an even coating. Then took the now coated boolits and placed them back in the oven to cure at 350 .....turned the oven off and forgot about them until cool. Real similar to the way I do jigheads actually..I just do the jigs hanging from the rack though.

They came out looking ok and after a pass thru sizing they all looked pretty good but the coating was not 100% perfectly even. I did notice that the sizer actually made the paint feel slipperier than before.

Without some electrostatic means of applying the powder cold I do not see PERFECTION in the application happening though. Maybe it does not need to be perfect...............I DUNNO

I have all the flourescent colors, glow in the darks, purple, white and black.........could make one very interesting box O' ammo eh. :lol:

I did a dozen 30 caliber TL plinker boolits this morning.....I will try them in the winnie when the rain stops.

This powder only sticks to statically charged or hot surfaces.........might be a way to use either trait to your benefit...........maybehaps.;) If it did foul the bore at some point I am not sure how you would remove it though.

morrisammo
07-08-2010, 01:26 PM
What about good old Auto paint?????????


Acrylic Enamel, Acrylic Urethane & Acrylic Lacquer

they look good,,

you can mix it and shoot it in small batches,,,,

air dry??

has anyone tried it??

357maximum
07-08-2010, 03:02 PM
Just got in from shooting the 30/30 plinker boolits at 1k fps. Grouped just as good as my normal LLA + MICA and the bore looked fine.

Not real high on the priority list but I do intend to push some faster and retrieve one after it hits my sandpile with some speed at some point.

Doby45
07-08-2010, 03:16 PM
Mike you are a flippin orange bullet shooting ninja. Now I need to get me some of that dayglow yellow powder and see if I can make me some "fancy" boolits.

CiDirkona
07-08-2010, 06:21 PM
Well, as long as you're putting paint on them, I'll take some silver ones with a black stripe, and some with flames down the sides. :D

357maximum
07-08-2010, 07:19 PM
So far I have had the will to resist giving them a black an white eye like I do on my jigheads...........SO FAR :lol: Maybe painting them like they did the WWII planes....nah nevermind. :holysheep

geargnasher
07-08-2010, 10:39 PM
:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

You guys are killin' me!!!

Gear

andrew375
07-09-2010, 03:39 PM
Ok I tried out a couple of things. I remembered that at work there were some left over cans of something called Plasti-Kote (http://www.plasti-kote.co.uk/) spray paint. When i looked in the flammables store there was just this Glass frosting spray (http://www.plasti-kote.co.uk/Product/pcode---4144) left. Still the description made it worth a try. I also found a can of something called Clear Gard which is intended for coating electrical items. Again the description sounded promising as a bullet coating.

I coated ten bullets, RCBS 245 gr. SWC, with each.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d926b3127ccefadaa291c01100000030O00Ics2rJm2cMQ e3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Application was quick and easy. Both were touch dry in ten minutes. Both sets of bullets had a slick waxy feel to them afterward.

I used the usual load I use with these bullets of 10 grains Vectan AO for 1260 fps. with my usual floor polish lube this is a consistent one hole grouper at 50 meters from my M94.

Here is the fifty meter (55 yd) group with the clear gard coating. The highest shot was a called flyer.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d928b3127ccefac6e6a9d72500000030O00Ics2rJm2cMQ e3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Afterwards the barrel appeared dirty and the crown was considerably greyer than usual.

Things improved with the Plasti-Kote glass frosting.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d928b3127ccefac79b03b76500000030O00Ics2rJm2cMQ e3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Also the barrel appeared cleaner and the crown went back to being black. So I think we can call this a success.

Bear in mind this is shooting prone, unsupported, with the 'scope set on 3.5x at an aiming point not really suitable for 'scope use.

The Plasi-Kote products are sold over here in most DIY and hardware stores, so no doubt you will find them, or something similar elsewhere.

357maximum
07-09-2010, 03:52 PM
Andrew's glass frosting sounds one heck of alot easier to use then the Pro-tec.................thanks.

We are going to have to work on the term for this though.........frosting already means something else.....................can you have double frosted boolits? :lol:


No lead ring around the boolit hole either..........apparently it is staying put through the firing process..hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

CiDirkona
07-09-2010, 07:35 PM
This thread is definitely getting interesting! The ease-of-use is definitely tempting too!

What are the guestimated negatives to using something like the plastikote as a spray-on lube? Build-up in the throat/barrel? Is it corrosive?

Has anyone tried this in 9mm yet?

bruce381
07-10-2010, 05:16 PM
I have make a tumble with moly/graphite boolit lube before the only thing I do not like is the "smell" upon firing but no leading. If some one wants I will send 4-5 ounces to try out (1-3 people not everyone) can be tumbled or sprayed then sized.
bruce

bruce381
07-10-2010, 05:19 PM
funny thing I make industrial lubes for a living but I use LARs BAC lube Not dry lubes

andrew375
07-13-2010, 02:57 PM
Found a can of plasti-kote black "rust not" paint hiding away on a shelf.:smile:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d932b3127ccefacf6acb8aa500000030O00Ics2rJm2cMQ e3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

One problem I found is the difficulty in getting an even coat all around the bullet. if trying to do more than one at a time some will always be partially shaded by others requiring a second spray over. A lot of extra hassle if doing more than ten or twenty.

Anyway here is the fifty metre group fired under the same conditions as the test with the mirror frosting.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d932b3127ccefacf6b404b8600000030O00Ics2rJm2cMQ e3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

For comparison here is a group shot just prior but with bullets coated in the usual floor polish. Premier Products Platinum 25 (http://www.premiereproducts.co.uk/chemicals/floorcare?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=13&category_id=56). The "25" refers to the percentage of solid waxes in suspension.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d932b3127ccefacfe0a08a8b00000030O00Ics2rJm2cMQ e3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

prickett
07-13-2010, 08:59 PM
What was the condition of the bore afterwards?

softpoint
07-14-2010, 08:25 AM
Oilfield equipment here is painted with a 2 part epoxy paint. The brand that three of the major service companies use is Jones-Blair. Both the paint and the primer are similar. This stuff is TOUGH. I believe it is a type of PVC. Once the hardener and paint are mixed, it has to be used within a specified time, even putting it in an airtight container won't prevent it from setting up. So it can't be put in spray cans. They use spray cans for touch-up, but it is not epoxy based.
I hadn't thought of it until I read this thread, but I am pretty sure it would make an excellent boolit coating. Stuff is fairly expensive, but a gallon would coat a lot of boolits. Boolits could be sized after dry. It is also very slick. Once this stuff dries on the exposed threads of a bolt, you will nearly strip the threads getting the nut off!

andrew375
07-14-2010, 03:41 PM
What was the condition of the bore afterwards?

Clean and shiny. :-P

riverwalker76
07-14-2010, 05:03 PM
Clean and shiny. :-P


I wonder if there is a slight build up around the rifling that you aren't noticing just yet? Similar to the use of Jacketed Bullets. It takes a while to notice any buildup, but when it does it's a pain in the tail to get out.

Are you bringing out a clean patch when you clean it?

jtwodogs
07-14-2010, 08:04 PM
I have been reading this thread with great interest. Since I have no luber. The bullets I have, have been tumbled lubed. Which works well with LEE bullets that are made for that kind of lubing. But since the next mold I am considering buying is not a LEE mold, but one with actual lube bands.
Sooo, what about Krylon Fusion it is a polymer based spray that is supposed to chemically bond with plastic? I wonder if that would work.

Tried reasearching Premier products 25 the stuff is made in England I believe the it would be pricey to obtain. Thought about going to a Lowes and looking for a similar product.
Anyway just thinking out loud.

morrisammo
07-15-2010, 10:02 AM
I have found a paint, that might work,, but the paint store has to order it,, it is water base and can be sprayed,,, it comes clear,, and I hope to be able to test,, adding color to it,,

Just to know,,, lets say,, I come up with a good
Formula,, and some directions of how to apply it,, if someone,, was to sell a bottle in a kit, that would coat, 5000 to 1000 bullets,,,
You would have to have a air compressor low volume gravity feed spray gun,

I will have to test,, other ways to apply this product,,, in testing when I get it,,,

How much would a bullet caster be willing to pay for this?

Tom_et
07-15-2010, 10:17 AM
How bout something right in front of us and no one mentioned it YET :)
BBQ Paint it takes the heat and comes in a spray or a two part Spray BBQ
and tumble in a lite Floor wax yes two handling's but may make an absolute
Clean Lightly smoking Boolit

Great thread opens the Mind
Tom

morrisammo
07-15-2010, 10:27 AM
I have tried other paint in the past,, but the ones I used,, were dirty,,
I don't think I did the BBQ paint,,,

But I can't remember,, it was along time ago,,

All I can say is give it a shot, see what happends,,

the key,, I think is,, Clean! loading and shooting,, fast,, not a long prosses, and 3 more steps to do,, in casting and loading,,
and the one that,,, may help in the end,,, making a cast bullet GREEN,,, accross the pond they have some green standards,,, and they say these bullets, are good to go!!!

so looking ahead,,, like it or not,, this may help our, Hobby,, more than you might think,,, right now!

morrisammo
07-15-2010, 12:27 PM
That sounds like a good option too!

with all of the things,, we can get our hands on,,

with testing,, I'm sure we can come up with a "Lube"

that does not smoke,,, and leaves the barrel clean,

jtwodogs
07-15-2010, 01:24 PM
What makes you think it is a paint? Looks to me like a liquid dip lube like Rooster jacket.

Currently I use a commercial liquid floor polish that claims in the blurb to be an "emulsion of advanced mix of polymers and waxes". This is just a wax sealer in a water suspension that is used for lino type floors, put it on wet and then buff to a shine when dry. It says "25% solids" on the label and lists carnuba as one of the waxes. Similar products are marketed for car polishes, just look for ones that you add to water, spray on and buff to shine when dry.

How I do my bullets is I pile them, 300 to 500 at a time, on to a piece of heavy gauge polythene sheet. I pour on a couple of table spoon full of the (undiluted) polish and then roll the bullets around in it by picking up the corners of the sheet and tipping it too and fro. When they all appear be good and wet I put the sheet back down and spread the bullets out to dry. Every half hour or so I'll go back out and repeat the swirling the bullets around on the sheet to re wet the bullets. Drying takes about 3 hours give or take. Once dry you can repeat the above to give an extra coat.

The agitation bit is important, not only to get the most lube on the bullets but also to prevent them sticking together and to the polythene.

This lube works with all types of cast bullets. At present I use it with 250 Keith SWCs and 320 gr. LBT bullets with excellent results in both my Ruger Super Red Hawk and Win M94 at velocities exceeding 1600 fps. It is also reputed to work well with paper patches.

OK, went to Lowes. They have some stuff that sounds similar. It is called Red-Max step 3, it has 20% solids in the solution. Suppose to have a wax that dries hard and resist scuffing. Maybe when I get my mold and start throwing some SWC I will give it a try.

Elkins45
07-15-2010, 09:27 PM
:p

This is a totally cool thread! Even if none of these ever pan out they certainly have given me a lot to think about!

leftiye
07-16-2010, 06:54 PM
If any of youse who have these paints try them, please post your results and what your "lube" was, load (maybe pics?) etc. I don't want to let this thread dissappear like the others that discussed this approach. Here we have actual options as to paints that might/should work. As someone said earlier, this can be a revolutionary development in cast lead boolits.

30CAL-TEXAN
07-16-2010, 07:55 PM
Sooo, what about Krylon Fusion it is a polymer based spray that is supposed to chemically bond with plastic? I wonder if that would work.


I was thinking the same thing! I might have to try this myself.:-D

DLCTEX
07-16-2010, 11:30 PM
I tried Krylon window frosting on some 257 boolits. It was brittle, could be scraped off with a fingernail , and definitely did not stand up to sizing down .003. Bummer. Paid $6.49 for it. Anyone need a window frosted?

geargnasher
07-16-2010, 11:52 PM
Krylon Fusion contains a solvent that etches plastic, that's how it adheres to the slick stuff. It has no benefits over conventional acrylic paints for boolits as far as I can see, but I think there are a lot of products in aerosol cans that do.

I'll even give you one: Amsoil brand "heavy duty metal protector and motorcycle chain lube". Basically a thin version of LLA in a spray can, and it costs about eight bucks for 18 net ounces, and it dries like 45/45/10 making it simple to use and second only to White Label's X-lox in economy.

Gear

30CAL-TEXAN
07-17-2010, 12:18 AM
Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using regular old krylon spray paint?

I remember seeing a comment somwhere about a guy spraypainting some of his boolits to appease a particular range's "No bare lead" rules but I don't think anything was said about the performance of such boolits.

jtwodogs
07-17-2010, 05:47 PM
Krylon Fusion contains a solvent that etches plastic, that's how it adheres to the slick stuff. It has no benefits over conventional acrylic paints for boolits as far as I can see, but I think there are a lot of products in aerosol cans that do.

I'll even give you one: Amsoil brand "heavy duty metal protector and motorcycle chain lube". Basically a thin version of LLA in a spray can, and it costs about eight bucks for 18 net ounces, and it dries like 45/45/10 making it simple to use and second only to White Label's X-lox in economy.

Gear


Just look this up on the internet sounds perfect, have you used this before?

buck1
07-18-2010, 08:24 AM
I just had a thought. At the auto parts stores , they sell vinel paint for painting seats and things. Might work??

morrisammo
07-19-2010, 01:34 PM
with this new poly paint,,, lube,,,,

I feel like I didn't get, get the Invite to the party,,,

now I feel silly,,, that the Guys in the UK... and eastern block countries,, have them,, and we are still in the Wax,,, era,,

leadman
07-19-2010, 02:06 PM
morrisammo, don't feel too badly. The guys overseas have to paint there boolits so they are real purty to look at on the shelf.

We just shove ours in a case and send them downrange.

morrisammo
07-19-2010, 03:16 PM
well Ok I feel a bit better,,

I was shooting my own 12 Lyman 525 slugs this weekend,,,

Getting ready for the RM3G

ya baby!!!!!!!!!!!

CiDirkona
07-19-2010, 04:59 PM
Amsoil lube mentioned:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amh.aspx

morrisammo
07-20-2010, 10:49 AM
http://www.ares-gun.sk/?lang=english


but these ones are very nice!!!!

not just clear coat,,,

geargnasher
07-23-2010, 12:34 AM
OK, I stand corrected, its a 16-ounce can. I thought it was 18 because the can is larger than a conventional can of spray paint.

Anyway, the stuff does a marvelous job, it's just not quite as easy to get an even coat as it is with 45-45-10, and it does work better if you just stand the boolits up on their bases in rows and mist them, the Amsoil HD has a quick-drying solvent that stays with the lube just long enough for it to sheet off of the noses but collect in the lube grooves and driving bands. One coat after sizing is bueno.

I'm still looking for a harder, non-sticky, non-tacky, non-smearing dry boolit lube, something like the powder coat or spray paint. Sooner or later somebody here is going to figure this out!

Gear

leadman
07-27-2010, 08:47 PM
gearnasher, did you shoot any of the boolits with the Amsoil on them? Does it dry to a non tacky surface?

A friend told me of a bullet caster that sells coated bullets in the states here. www.blackbulletsinternational.com They have some interesting comments on the use of the Lee factory crimp die.

softpoint
07-27-2010, 09:15 PM
OK, I stand corrected, its a 16-ounce can. I thought it was 18 because the can is larger than a conventional can of spray paint.

Anyway, the stuff does a marvelous job, it's just not quite as easy to get an even coat as it is with 45-45-10, and it does work better if you just stand the boolits up on their bases in rows and mist them, the Amsoil HD has a quick-drying solvent that stays with the lube just long enough for it to sheet off of the noses but collect in the lube grooves and driving bands. One coat after sizing is bueno.

I'm still looking for a harder, non-sticky, non-tacky, non-smearing dry boolit lube, something like the powder coat or spray paint. Sooner or later somebody here is going to figure this out!

Gear

Look up Defend metal protector. It comes in a spray can. I've used it on boolits. It works fine, looks and smells like LLA. Dries a bit better, though, depending how thick you spray it on. On of the companies I do contract work for gave me a bunch of it, so I don't know what it costs

jtwodogs
07-31-2010, 09:17 AM
http://www.ares-gun.sk/?lang=english

If someone had access to a Gas chromathograph. We could order some of these and reverse engineer what the substnace was that was on it.

Shooter6br
07-31-2010, 12:27 PM
In the old days i preferred painted ladies not bullets LOL:groner:

geargnasher
07-31-2010, 01:31 PM
gearnasher, did you shoot any of the boolits with the Amsoil on them? Does it dry to a non tacky surface?

A friend told me of a bullet caster that sells coated bullets in the states here. www.blackbulletsinternational.com They have some interesting comments on the use of the Lee factory crimp die.

The stuff leaves a waxy residue on the nose and around the case mouth when the boolits are seated, no big deal if you use the folded towel/mineral spirits/see-saw cleaning trick, but it can build up in the seating die. It's not tacky when dry, but can get a little flaky. This stuff works best with micro-groove boolits, and it shoots fine with little smoke.

I checked the MSDS of the Amsoil HD spray and compared it to liquid Alox, found some similarities, but the base "sludge" is a slightly different wax.

Gear

smlekid
08-01-2010, 08:12 AM
here is a pic of the hawkeburry river boolits from Australia
sold here as Blackhawkes I don't know what they are coated with

buck1
08-01-2010, 10:48 AM
Man that looks like automotive paint to me. BUT.....????

Windy City Kid
08-01-2010, 08:36 PM
here is a pic of the hawkeburry river boolits from Australia
sold here as Blackhawkes I don't know what they are coated with

I wonder why they only sell these coated or painted bullets in other countries, I haven't seen any of these coated or painted bullets in the USA. I have seen a lot of the moly/poly bullets, but nothing like these.

It doesn't seem like anyone in the USA knows what this paint coating is.

I would like to get some of theses bullets to test out and to try to figure out what this coating is.

Does anyone know where I could get some of theses bullets in the USA or have some of my boolits coated?

Dannix
08-02-2010, 01:49 AM
here is a pic of the hawkeburry river boolits from Australia
sold here as Blackhawkes I don't know what they are coated with
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24159&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1280664471

That looks, well, awful. Like a really cheap plastic nerf knockoff.

No wonder they don't sell them in the US. We're too fashion conscious.
:kidding:

smlekid
08-02-2010, 05:14 AM
www.arrowmark.com.au/projectiles-hawkesburyriver.aspx
try this website it calls the coating "Hytek supercoating"

leadman
08-02-2010, 12:33 PM
Here is a place coating bullets also. Don't know what the coating is though.
www.blackbulletsinternational.com

I have some white auto paint left over from a car I painted so I am going to dip some boolits and see what happens.

deltaenterprizes
08-02-2010, 12:55 PM
I got a couple of Bayou bullets when I visited New Orleans last week. They have a green coating.

Russel Nash
08-02-2010, 01:24 PM
a few years back when you could still get 1,000 j word bullets in .40 cal 180grains for USPSA/IPSC pistol competitions for jus about 80 bucks...well...those were the good ol' days....now they are up around $140 per 1K.... a buddy and I were thinking about going into the bullet swaging business and making our own IPSC bullets. we looked at that idea but it seemed like we would be slaves to the commodties market and maybe just one or two sources for copper sheet and lead wire.

at about that same time, word got around that the Master Blasters black bullet making company was going to sell off its equipment and go out of business.

my friend was emailing the guy back and forth and they agreed on a price for the equipment. and as the story was relayed to me...the Master Blasters seller sprung this on him: "that'll be an extra X thousands of dollars for the proprietary coating material and process tha my chemist wife came up with".

my friend called the deal off at that point.

Tom Drazy up in Wisconsin ended up buying the equipment instead and he started black bullets international.

then like a year later, I was browsing this forum right here and I think I discovered what that secret chemicaL was ....Sandstrom 27A. it was a post by westerman that caught my eye. just do a search for both westerman in the screenname window and sandstrom in the keyword window and his post should come.

so I bought a quart. it is expensive stuff.

I still have not quite figured out the application process yet. some "friends" on youtube clued me in as to how they think the bullets get coated. there is a video of how jelly beans are spun tumble coated to get their color. I think that s how the polymer or black bullets are coated...but for the bullets there is probably some heated added also.

supposedly, the black bullets smoke less than a traditional cast and lubed boolit. but I haven't seen it with my own two eyes....so I am not quick to believe everything I read on the internet...

along with the common misconception that it is the wax lube that causes all the smoke when you shoot a boolit.

I have shot UNlubed boolits before and they STILL SMOKE!!!

my guess it is the type of gunpowder more than anything.

Russel Nash
08-02-2010, 02:02 PM
back on the 2nd page of this thread, somebody posted a youtube link for bayou bullets.

now...granted...I have a lot of experience videotaping people shooting matches and myself with my own hat mounted camera (click the link below in my signature line)....butttt....


..in the very first part of the video, I can actually hear the wind blowing into the microphone. he also shoots his bayou bullets slower...whereas...with the cast boolits it sounds like a machine gun and I do not hear any wind or breeze blowing into the microphone at all.

I'm not saying it was done intentionally...just noting some observations I made...and yes he does get the gun very close to his head when putting on his muffs. but he is jerry miculek's brother so he should know what he is doing.

oh....yeah....of special note to me...is if it was me I would have specifically mentioned that the same powder, charge weights, and primers were used and that it was just the bullets that were swapped out.

the bayou bullets are "poly coated" whereas the black bullets international, the bear creek, and the precisions are "moly coated".

Windy City Kid
08-02-2010, 08:11 PM
Russel Nash,

I think you are right.

I did a google search and this is whar I found.

Sandstrom products makes a bullet coating.

Here is the link to their web site.

http://www.sandstromproducts.com/gun-coating-bullet-coating.html

CiDirkona
08-03-2010, 01:24 PM
it was a post by westerman that caught my eye.



http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=391237&postcount=27

Russel Nash
08-03-2010, 02:04 PM
a'yup...his name is Craig Westerman and he shoots 3gun/multigun and USPSA matches with his son in Kansas. I have sent him private messages via this forum and via the Brian Enos forum asking him how he knew it was the Sandstrom liquid and if he had any insider knowledge on how it gets applied to bullets.

I never did get a reply back. :-(

my own experimentation with the liquid wasn't very fruitful.... ARRGHH!!

I am thinking that bullets...err...boolits have to be sized a thou or two under before they are coated. so like a .45 ACP boolit would normally be .451 or maybe even .452, you would be better off starting out with a boolit that was sized down to .449....then coating it.

my experience trying to load my dip coated boolits showed that even with a good bell on the mouth of the caSe that when the boolits were seated, the case mouth still liked to scrape the coating off. :-/

for me, since I have Star I wasn"t going to blow money on a .449 sizing die just to experiment with it.

also at the time, I was placing the dipped boolits onto a piece of brown craft paper. when I would go to pull the dried bullet off the paper, a glob of the coating would always come off the base end of the boolit .... argghhh..

which led me to believe even more that my youtube friends were correct about their jelly bean dye-ing tumbling process.

this is kind of a long video but just fast forward to the 6:47 mark :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2sHMcJIYDc&feature=youtube_gdata

my youtube friends and mechanical engineering friends all kinda agreed that would be the easiest and quickest way to coat boolits in bulk.

about the only other catch with me as far as this Sandstrom liquid goes is that it is very "hot". I mean like spraying plain ol' nitrocellulose lacquer in your house "hot". if it didn't give you a headache within the first 30 seconds of smelling it, the vapors would probably float across the floor until they found a pilot light and then KABOOOMMMM! :-O there goes your house.

so the tumbling part would be easy enough to do safely....just buy an el cheapo cement/concrete/mortar mixer from harbor freight. It is the adding heat part that has me worried...how to do that safely???

I do remember....however...seeing a pic on the brian enos forums about 5 years ago....somebody had received a shipment of black bullets ....in the pic the guy had his bullets all laid out on a table and maybe even under some incandescent bulbs (drop lights) as the instructions were that the
ebullets were still wet or damp and needed some additional drying time before they were to be loaded up.

prickett
08-03-2010, 09:38 PM
a'yup...his name is Craig Westerman and he shoots 3gun/multigun and USPSA matches with his son in Kansas. I have sent him private messages via this forum and via the Brian Enos forum asking him how he knew it was the Sandstrom liquid and if he had any insider knowledge on how it gets applied to bullets.

I never did get a reply back. :-(

my own experimentation with the liquid wasn't very fruitful.... ARRGHH!!

I am thinking that bullets...err...boolits have to be sized a thou or two under before they are coated. so like a .45 ACP boolit would normally be .451 or maybe even .452, you would be better off starting out with a boolit that was sized down to .449....then coating it.

my experience trying to load my dip coated boolits showed that even with a good bell on the mouth of the caSe that when the boolits were seated, the case mouth still liked to scrape the coating off. :-/

for me, since I have Star I wasn"t going to blow money on a .449 sizing die just to experiment with it.

also at the time, I was placing the dipped boolits onto a piece of brown craft paper. when I would go to pull the dried bullet off the paper, a glob of the coating would always come off the base end of the boolit .... argghhh..

which led me to believe even more that my youtube friends were correct about their jelly bean dye-ing tumbling process.

this is kind of a long video but just fast forward to the 6:47 mark :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2sHMcJIYDc&feature=youtube_gdata

my youtube friends and mechanical engineering friends all kinda agreed that would be the easiest and quickest way to coat boolits in bulk.

about the only other catch with me as far as this Sandstrom liquid goes is that it is very "hot". I mean like spraying plain ol' nitrocellulose lacquer in your house "hot". if it didn't give you a headache within the first 30 seconds of smelling it, the vapors would probably float across the floor until they found a pilot light and then KABOOOMMMM! :-O there goes your house.

so the tumbling part would be easy enough to do safely....just buy an el cheapo cement/concrete/mortar mixer from harbor freight. It is the adding heat part that has me worried...how to do that safely???

I do remember....however...seeing a pic on the brian enos forums about 5 years ago....somebody had received a shipment of black bullets ....in the pic the guy had his bullets all laid out on a table and maybe even under some incandescent bulbs (drop lights) as the instructions were that the
ebullets were still wet or damp and needed some additional drying time before they were to be loaded up.

By the time you do all that, what is the advantage of that over simply making moly coated bullets?

Russel Nash
08-03-2010, 11:42 PM
we are talking about two different types of moly here. the moly you are most likely talking about is the molybendum disulfide powder that the benchrest shooters were all ga-ga about, about 5 years ago. they will tumble their jacketed rifle bullets in...it would turn the copper colored jacket into a silver-ish blue-ish color.

The "moly" I am talking about is the liquid coating that at least 3 different manufacturers are using to coat cast lead boolits. They cater mainly to the USPSA/IPSC crowd and the IDPA folks. Those "moly" bullets supposedly smoke less than traditional wax lubed cast boolits. That is one advantage of them, the other being that they tend to be cheaper than jacketed bullets by like Precision Delta, Montana Gold, or Zero bullets.

pjh421
08-05-2010, 02:59 PM
Anyone ever heard of Billycoat? About 15 years ago we were loading these boolits (.40 S&W, 180 gr. TC) for a Glock. Didn't notice any undue fouling or smoking. They may have been a locally manufactured item (SF Bay area) but I don't know much about them as my friend bought and delivered them to me. The color of the coating was black and the boolits were clean-handling. Also I don't remember there having been a problem with shaving during seating.

Paul

Russel Nash
08-05-2010, 10:52 PM
I'm thinking if it was a commerical bullet making company then they already knew to size their bullets a thou or two under. plus they probably tumbled them like in that jellybean video I posted up above and/or baked the finish on.

I think now where you get those black bullets from (black bullets intn'l vs. precisions vs. bear creek)...one of those outfits coats their bullets different so you will get black stuff all over your hand. then another outfit does it right and you won't get black stuff on you.

Windy City Kid
08-06-2010, 01:05 AM
I have done a little research on the Moly coating for cast bullets.

There are a couple of different process to moly coat bullets.

One, is the NECO-COAT Moly plating, this is really meant for jacketed bullets. NECO use Moly and Carnauba wax.

Two, is the Sandstrom Poly-Moly coating. Sandstrom uses a moly and polymer coating. This is the process that most of the commerical bullet making companies are using. It is applied like Russel Nash said.

There are more moly coating processes then these two examples but these are two of the least messy.

I am not interested in the Poly-Moly coating or the other moly coatings.


I want to know what the Polymer Painted bullet coating is or where to get the coating.

This is what we have been talking about:

http://ammo.dynamic-arms.com/index.html

http://www.ares-gun.sk/?lang=english

http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/WESTCASTINGS.htm

I think you can get the bullets in the USA from WESTCASTINGS.


Someone has to know what this coating is?

63 Shiloh
08-06-2010, 10:02 PM
Well I have a large selection of westcasting and hawkesbury river bullets down here in Australia.

Colour of coating is blue, black and gold.

I will be more than happy to scratch the coating off to post to someone who has the equipment to identify the coating.

Mike

jtwodogs
08-08-2010, 07:20 AM
Please someone who has access to a GC jump on this, so close to the answer. If I had access to one I would be all over this.
j

Windy City Kid
08-09-2010, 12:53 AM
Please someone who has access to a GC jump on this, so close to the answer. If I had access to one I would be all over this.
j

jtwodogs,

What is a GC?

Is it some kind of an analyzer?

Dannix
08-09-2010, 02:41 AM
I assume this is what he's referring to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chromatography

jtwodogs
08-10-2010, 10:08 PM
Sorry, I have not got back till now.
Ya, it basically heats the sample and breaks it down into idividual components or "spikes" which can tell us what the stuff is made of.

Windy City Kid
08-11-2010, 03:04 PM
Is there any place that we can send a sample to have the Gas Chromatography service?

How much does this service cost?

If it isn't a crazy high price, I would be willing to send the sample in.

Even after we find out what the coating is, we still have to figure out the application process.

Tom_et
08-12-2010, 10:56 AM
OK
I spoke to Sandstrom they have more than one Bullet coating avail and she even told me of the man out west that used 27a which was replaced by 28a but I didn't go further
than a Basic conversation and she told me that I would need to speak to the guy in the Lab
about the adhesion and what else was needed to have their product work on Lead bullet
So I would think you guys can come up with One of you calling (not me) and get the answers
I just think if we flood them with calls they will clam up because the chemist will be talking not working
I said (not me ) because I am not educated in the bullet lube theory enough to get the answers needed thats MHO on it anyway

Tommyt

buck1
08-19-2010, 11:54 PM
http://sandstromproducts.com/msds.html

CiDirkona
08-20-2010, 12:11 PM
http://sandstromproducts.com/msds.html

How many of those are red herrings?

pjh421
08-23-2010, 11:37 PM
I was reading this thread for updates today since improving the process is a subject near and dear to many of us. I noticed the references to Sandstrom products and clicked on a link. The first thing that got my attention was that they are pretty close to my town so I hopped in the Blazer (we got it running again) and rolled on over there.

A gentleman by the name of Mark was kind enough to receive me, unannounced. He listened to my questions and requests during a pleasant 20 or so minute conversation and I invited him to join the forum. He indicated that he would indeed be interested and he seems to have a good grasp of the dynamics requiring lubrication of a cast boolit.

I hope that he does as he may be able to shed light on a process whereby a guy would not have to buy a lubrisizer to shoot boolits at rifle velocities. I have owned a Star for 15 years now and love it but if I could buy a $20 rattle can and not have to handle each casting, well that's something I would make happen.

Thanks for another intriguing thread guys.

Paul

DukeInFlorida
08-27-2010, 07:30 AM
Hi guys and gals....

I used to sell (as a commissioned salesman) for a company in Massachusetts which does a unique method of powder coating.

They specialize in the ability to do very small and tiny parts.

Large parts are normally hung on hangers, and then the poly powder is electrostatically sprayed on to the parts. The parts, still clinging to the powder, goes through a baking oven, where the powder melts, adheres to the part, and solidifies into rich looking paint.

The problem with small parts is that you can't hang them.

So, they do a process for small parts called, "Fluid Bed" coating.....

You first clean the parts, and then heat them to the melting temperature of the poly coating.

You place the parts on a conveyor belt for the heating (infrared oven), and as they drop off the end of the conveyor, they fall into a tank of the powder which is constantly being "fluffed up" by blowing compressed air through the bottom of it. Another webbed conveyor (which allows the powder to fall through, but not the coated small parts) takes the small parts out of the vat, to a cooling area.

The eyes and speed lace hooks on all of the Army boots are done by these people, and they also do lots of other things the same way.

I don't have any affiliation with them at this point. They are good people though. You could contract with them to do your coating. BUT.... don't expect to be able to do this yourself at home.

They'll make some samples for you:
http://www.collt.com/index.php

UPDATE:

After doing a LOT of additional reading, I see that some of the fishing "jig" makers are using small fluid beds to powder coat their product at home.
One guy mentioned getting a fluid bed on ebay.
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=fluid+bed&_sacat=See-All-Categories

So, for $49, you can powder coat.

Here's how the process is done:
http://www.innotekllc.com/documents/Fluid_Bed_Powder_Coatings.pdf

leftiye
08-27-2010, 09:26 PM
Could the boolits be heated hot enough to just dip them in the powder?

geargnasher
08-29-2010, 12:38 AM
Very informative, Duke. Looks like that's the way to go in any decent volume.

Not that it would really ever be practical, but having an automatic boolit caster that chucked the boolits directly into the fluid vat for coating while still hot would be the ultimate set up.

Gear

pjh421
08-29-2010, 01:08 AM
Well I applied some 28A to a few cast boolits each for .45-70; .45ACP; .44 Magnum; and .30 caliber rifle. This comes in a spray can (at least the version I have does). I noticed that spraying is an incredibly inefficient method of deposit for this purpose. I let them dry overnight and examined them this morning. After spraying from 4 directions there still remained portions of some boolits lacking coverage. I re-sprayed and will check again tomorrow as I am squeezing this in between doing things to help us move back into our home a little faster.

The boolits were placed nose down into some plastic trays for commercial 9mm cartridges for my first attempt at polymer coating. I'm going to measure to try to determine how thick the coatings are. The proof will be in the pudding as to whether it matters when I shoot these for groups. I am most interested in finding out whether I can bump the velocity of these slugs up considerably and have no leading, especially without gas checks. The noses remain uncoated and is due of course to the method of coating. Probably not a big deal for the SWC slugs but the ogival rifle boolits are causing me some concern.

The dip and spin method is probably state of the art at this juncture. I get the feeling that is where I'll be heading but will explore maybe using some waxed paper and a butter tub in an attempt to tumble lube somehow after spraying. I wonder how they keep the coating applied evenly as the castings dry. If the castings touch anything there would be a flat spot, right?

If the castings are spin dried en masse, wouldn't they stick together and have to be broken apart leaving flat spots and uncoated spots? This stuff causes my castings to stick to the plastic ammo trays I spray coated them in.

Paul

Chook
09-02-2010, 02:33 PM
I still have a can of the Bullet Master Lube. The fellow that sold it passed away; he was from Lake Oswego Oregon, and I believe in the epoxy/lubricant industry somewhere. The can states the ingredients, and I know that methylene chloride is the carrier product because about once a year I have to add some more or it dries out. I can't see all the percentages of the product because some of the lube dripped over the label years ago. I CAN tell you though that I used this stuff to lube Lee 180gr .309 bullets with and fired them through my M-14. It is the finest lube I've ever used, as it dries like epoxy paint and is impossible to get off bullets. I never had any problems. Here is a link to a picture of the can.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chookvw/?saved=1

Do we have any chemists or knowledgable types on here. I 'm SURE this is just a repackaged can of a generally available industrial lube.

Doby45
09-02-2010, 02:43 PM
Is that Chook as in Australian for chicken?

Chook
09-02-2010, 08:09 PM
Is that Chook as in Australian for chicken?

Hell no, I'm not an Ozzie, I'm a Canad'jun, you know those guys north of the border? :-) I believe you have a few of them living close to you in Louisiana; but they bastardized the name to Cajun after the Brits threw them out of Acadia in Eastern Canada. :-) Dey speak dee ol' French like my mudder speak to me when I was da liddle kid eh? Dey are my relatives in dem der bayous n'est pas? [smilie=l:

Hammer
09-03-2010, 03:53 PM
This has been a great read. I have been chasing a hard coating for eight months to put on some 38 Super (Revolver shot) bullets. I have been using a commercial bullet that has a "semi'hard" moly coating which has a bad tendency to rub off on your fingers while you are loading.... You are a mess after twenty rounds.... I have talked to Mark at Sandstrom and he is a very great source of help. It is hard to get past specific products though without getting into proprietary stuff and I don't want to put him on the spot. I have some 28A in the garage and have tried it, but it did not solve my leading problems. Have tried larger bullets, but am afraid to go to .357 or .358 for fear of hurting the revolver.... At any rate, I am still experimenting. Have even started swaging (caugh - caugh) in order to find an alternative. I can NECO coat them and they work just fine... But NECO coat does not hold up to the pressures in my Super loads on cast lead bullets..... I am getting a little old to start new tricks, but I have decided I will solve this riddle before I go to the big shootin range in the sky..... I have also tried the spray cans of Moly, but as others have said, they leave uncoated spots that must be retreated. I have tried swirling in cups and also using lead shot as a transfer agent in a peanut butter jar in a tumbler. Problem always comes back to how to get the liquid to dry without the bullet sticking to somehting and then the coating peeling off.... This is what makes trips to the "man cave" so worth while these days... I have ordered some Rooster and Emulsified Wax fvor my next round. Has anyone tried the 45/45/10 with a moly (liquid) addative. Think I'll do that this weekend. Everyone enjoy!!!!

leftiye
09-03-2010, 08:39 PM
I still have a can of the Bullet Master Lube. The fellow that sold it passed away; he was from Lake Oswego Oregon, and I believe in the epoxy/lubricant industry somewhere. The can states the ingredients, and I know that methylene chloride is the carrier product because about once a year I have to add some more or it dries out. I can't see all the percentages of the product because some of the lube dripped over the label years ago. I CAN tell you though that I used this stuff to lube Lee 180gr .309 bullets with and fired them through my M-14. It is the finest lube I've ever used, as it dries like epoxy paint and is impossible to get off bullets. I never had any problems. Here is a link to a picture of the can.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chookvw/?saved=1

Do we have any chemists or knowledgable types on here. I 'm SURE this is just a repackaged can of a generally available industrial lube.

Maybe we could start a new thread on this approach. I had some of this Bullet Master Lube back when, and I really liked it. The big complaint seemed to be the methylene chloride, but the guy selling it dying would explain why it dissappeared. I agree - we can probly figure out what it is and resurrect it.

pjh421
09-03-2010, 10:28 PM
Hammer,

Oversized lead boolits won't hurt your revolver. They will size down when fired. If they are too big they won't even chamber.

Haven't moved forward on this project, been working on the house.

Paul

MtGun44
09-13-2010, 03:57 PM
Hammer -
Going a bit larger with boolits is not going to hurt the revolver.

If you have leading, a primary cause is undersized boolits.

THE first thing to do if you have leading is to increase the diameter of the boolits.

Bill
OOPS - Paul and I must have been typing at the same time.

Hammer
09-13-2010, 05:14 PM
Not trying to hijack the thread chasing bullet size... PROMISE! I have gone up to .358 and had trouble getting the rounds in the cylinder.... Still leads in the cylinder - not in the barrel.... Is it possible to "over hone" a cylinder? The real reason for the Moly is the (expected) lubricity and the benefit to velocity I derive in that particular load. Every other bullet I try requires more powder and thus increases felt recoil.... Not what I'm looking for in an ICORE load. The moly coated rounds I am purchasing provide this but will still lead in my revolver. My wifes revolver shoots the same rounds just fine.... Bout ready to pitch the revolver over the side and start over again... In the end, I am still looking for an acceptable vehicle to apply moly coating to these rounds to replicate the loads in my other .38 caliber weapons ( I have several and shoot everything from .38 shorts to .38 specials with those bullets.) Not to mention the same bullet sized down will work well in the Super load... I REALLY APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S ADVICE! This is the best forum on the net in my book.

Back to the thread: Didn't get to the 45/45/10 with Moly this weekend. Did try Sandstrom product with Rooster and Poly wax as well as NECO with Rooster an dPoly wax coatings as well. Mixing the Sandstrom product wit the wax before it is applied made a mess. You chemistsw out there probably knew that would happen.... The solvents in the Sandstrom product did not allow the Moly to mix well with the Poly coating and it went from powdered granules in the wax to a black blob as the percentages increased..... Did try the Neco impact coating and then followed the Rooster Jacket directions for coating the same bullets. That produced a satisfactory result as far as coating consistency. Will go to the range this weekend and try and see how they do. Not a chemist so I have to learn by trial and error....:coffeecom

CiDirkona
09-19-2010, 01:39 AM
I still have a can of the Bullet Master Lube. The fellow that sold it passed away; he was from Lake Oswego Oregon, and I believe in the epoxy/lubricant industry somewhere. The can states the ingredients, and I know that methylene chloride is the carrier product because about once a year I have to add some more or it dries out. I can't see all the percentages of the product because some of the lube dripped over the label years ago. I CAN tell you though that I used this stuff to lube Lee 180gr .309 bullets with and fired them through my M-14. It is the finest lube I've ever used, as it dries like epoxy paint and is impossible to get off bullets. I never had any problems. Here is a link to a picture of the can.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chookvw/?saved=1

Do we have any chemists or knowledgable types on here. I 'm SURE this is just a repackaged can of a generally available industrial lube.

That is an eerily inconvenient drip right over the numbers...

toddrod
09-19-2010, 07:51 AM
Is there a manufacturer listed on the can of that Bullet Master Lube that could be contacted??

Chook
09-19-2010, 11:41 AM
That is an eerily inconvenient drip right over the numbers...

Yeah kind of freaky isn't it?? The ghost of the guy who owned Bulletmaster. :-)

Chook
09-19-2010, 11:43 AM
Is there a manufacturer listed on the can of that Bullet Master Lube that could be contacted??

No, as I stated earlier, the fellow died; but if we had someone with more time than me, or if someone wanted to do a bit of research, they could start selling it themselves. I'm pretty positive it's a generally available epoxy resin carrier impregnated with moly di, and other slippery stuff. This stuff dries as hard as nails when you use it, and my bores get a nice black shine to em, but no way does it lead. A few shots with jacketed slugs and bore looks new again.

Good Cheer
09-19-2010, 02:57 PM
Anybody figure out an etch and water based wax dip process?

castalott
09-19-2010, 10:34 PM
Maybe I'm off base here but this has potential. Imagine casting bullets without grease grooves. Think how much easier they would be to cast and inspect. I believe each grease groove is also a drag so the BC's would go up. Bearing surface would go up so maybe..just maybe ....pointier bullets in rifles would be possible too....and maybe boat tails too...

I'm not really sure how many improvements could come of this....

Good Luck to you all....

Dale

Hammer
09-20-2010, 10:00 AM
That is an eerily inconvenient drip right over the numbers...

In an earlier post, someone suggested a GC analysis of the poly lube. How about a GC check of the Bullet Master Lube?

I am willing to help with a share of the cost.....

Hammer
09-20-2010, 10:14 AM
I finally got to the range with my sample bullets using the Sandstrom product and another spray on Moly coating, with added wax and polymer coatings over the moly.

First things first: Size does matter.... I spent an hour with several different sized bullets doing a detailed analysis of the bore sizes of each chamber in my cylinder and then went to the range.... The .356 bullets leaded like all the rest of my attempts. Having found two chambers over .356 in the cylinder and reading the many posts, I now expected those results.

The .357 bullets coated with the Sandstrom and other aerosol Moly spray did do well. I tried a further coating of Rooster Jacket on one batch and a polymer/carnauba wax on the other batch. Both shot well with good groups and left little leading in the chamber.

One side note: My effort with the Rooster Jacket and the Polymer Carnauba combination was intended to provide a hard coating over the Moly so as to limit the mess of the Moly. After loading the rounds, my hands were a mess, regardless the combionaion of coatings. The only bullets which didn't make a mess were the NECO coated with impact carnauba coating. They also tended to lead a little more than the Rooster Jacket.

Don't know if this info is of any value, but hopefully it will stir some brain cells and more ideas.

For what it is worth, my chambers in the eight shot .38 Super range from .354 to .3565 and .356 sized bullets will drop straight through two of the chambers.....

seppos
09-20-2010, 02:23 PM
I dont know, but have anybody tried the copper spray..?
http://permatex.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/42287/80697

S

Rooster
09-20-2010, 11:39 PM
I found a US Patent #4465883 using some polyethylene and ethylene-vinyl acetate in a wax base. IDK if this is even close to the spray paint composition but I would think a bit of tweaking it could be on the right track. HTH, Rooster.

watto
10-25-2011, 12:47 AM
Hi,

Has anyone looked any furhter into this???

I am a IPSC shooter in Australia and all we use are coated bullets, from either westcastings or Top Score, or one of the others.

I have never seen anyone using non coated bulltes in OZ.

They are good, no lead build up and shoot straght. However there are only a few companys who make them and they are un reliable.

I am looking at casring my own but need to nail down the coating first... Any one got ay new ideas??

Cheers

Ausglock
10-25-2011, 04:56 PM
Watto.
I still use Topscores in my G35 357Sig STD Div gun.
But I run cast and lubed in the G34 9mm and the Kimber 38 Super.
I am now just starting to load for the 45ACP.
Running Lyman 230gr RN with Jakes Ceresin purple lube.

Topscore guards his coating and process very well. I have been to his shop a few times and tried to pry it out of him, but to no avail.

I have played with high temp brake caliper paint on my cast bullets. it works. but not as good as I want.

watto
10-25-2011, 11:58 PM
Thanks Trevor,

If you dont mind me asking, what do you load for your 17, ie weight/lube and lead mix??

Cheers

zxcvbob
10-26-2011, 07:40 PM
Has anyone tried FutureŽ floor wax as a boolit lube/coating? (it's not really a wax, it's a water-based strippable acrylic) It also goes by the names "Klear", and "Pledge Premium Finish".

Ausglock
10-26-2011, 09:15 PM
Watto.
9mm
I run Lee 356 2R 125 mold. sized .356 lubed with Jakes Purple Ceresin
Alloy is Range lead about 10 BHN water dropped to about 15-16 BHN.

Load is 4.0gr WST with Magtech SP primers.

Viagrow
11-13-2011, 09:45 PM
I think what your looking at could be KG Bullet Kote, it's spray on coating that is cured by baking . Bullet Kote is normally available in a blackish gray finish.

About 1O years ago, I spoke with a man who said he was the owner of KG industries, we had a conversation regarding salt spray endurance testing of his firearms finish being considered for the US Military. During our conversation we spoke about Bullet Kote and he said he could make it in almost any color. The coating could be applied to cast bullets if needed.

The preferred method for the application of Bullet Kote was to apply it with an airbrush (fine mist or fog) then baked it to cure. KG makes various color coatings for firearms, back when I spoke with the owner he told me he could make the bullet coating in several colors if need be. I believe the coating was a mixture of MolyD and some sort of Poly. Some of the benefits of the coating were increased bullet speeds, almost no barrel fouling, and minimal smoke.


From the Manufacture: Bullet Coat is a solid film lubricant, which will produce a thin, dry lubricative film on bullets. The appearance of Bullet Coat is charcoal gray and can be dipped, sprayed and sprayed/baked, allowing all shooters the advantages and benefits of coating their rounds with Moly not just reloaders.

Hope this helps. It is not my intention to reveal any trade secrets, I am simply providing information and my own opinion.

bruce381
11-14-2011, 01:27 AM
try tumble lube with a water or solvent based auto enamel, dump on a window sceen to dry and then size? seems to me that with all the colors if has to be a readily avalible paint like car paint.

Wills Point Pete
11-14-2011, 04:50 AM
Some years back I "spaypainted" a bunch of cast boolits in .30 caliber for my .30-06 and in .357 for my .38s and .357s. I used Midway"s Dropout graphite mold release. I used every load in the .38s and .357s, from mild to wild, including max loads with the slow powders in a Marlin carbine. I never saw any leading.

In the .30-06 I pushed those 190 grain gas check boolits to a tad over 2,000 fps and the loads shot fairly well with no leading. I am convinced that if I had done a little intelligent experimentation with the alloys I could have tightened the groups. My experiments were in a different direction, though, I was looking for a small game load and got real fond of those slugs at around 1400 fps.

None of this is original. Phil Sharpe was painting lead slugs back in the '20s and '30s, using artist's paintbrushes. It worked then, my experiments with the spay cans worked in the '90s.

Try picking up a can of Dropout and spraypainting a few hundred boolits. The graphite dries hard and quickly. As with the other sprays, there is less smoke than regular lubes. Of course, now that I'm shooting black powder ca'tridges, smoke doesn't bother me but, it might you.

There is really nothing much new. Shortly after I read Phil Sharpe's Complete Guide to Handloading, written back in the '30s and decided to try Dropout, thinking how smart I was I read a blurb about it in Handloader Magazine. Nope, nothing new.

leftiye
11-15-2011, 12:35 AM
That Bullet Kote stuff sounds a lot like Bullet Master lube, with the exception of having to airbrush it on, and maybe cook it for 2 hours. They say you don't have to cook it, and cooking at 300 degrees would anneal your boolits, so, I don't like the cooking idea.

Googled it. The places selling it say it will stand alone which I never tried with bullet master. I'd still lube with C-Red after BK-ing boolits myself. This might just be what's needed to obviate the damage to boolit surfaces when traveling down a bore. $30 pint, can be ordered over telephone. Guess I'll have to go to Harbor fart, and get an airbrush.

Four Fingers of Death
11-16-2011, 06:04 AM
Commercial casters (ands there are a lot of them) in Australia pretty much only offer coated bullets. Most shooters refuse to use anything else.

They are not sticky, your dies stay clean and they can be driven flat out with no leading. There is significanltly less smoke, which is an advantage, especially on cold mornings. These first reared their head in the early 90s when service pistol shooters were experimenting with coatings to reduce smoke. One of the stages in Service Pistol requires 6 shots at 10 yards in 4 seconds. No biggie, but on a cold foggy morning the last thre shots were being aimed from memory, because you couldn't see the target.

I have used many, many thousands of these bullets and have never had a problem, guns get cleaned every few years whether they need it or not. I was shooting service at one stage virtually every saturday and fired a minimum ot two hundred rounds through my 586 and most times more, with one or two praactice sessions during the week where I shot one full match as a minimum (90 rounds). I didn't clean the gun for two years and the barrel looked as good at the end as it did at the start.

If you are shooting smokless and buying commercial bullets, I cannot see why you buy the traditional cast bullets, performance wise, they are way behind the coated bullets.

If you find traditional lubed commercial bullets in a shop here, you can always get a good deal as the shop will be glad to get rid of them. I have bought heaps like this.

Hawkesbury River Bullets were the first I think, they still sell excellent bullets, turquoise for general, black for something else and silver for cowboy shooting, as they look like lead.

The tooughest coating I have seen is on Mr Lone Colt's bullets, his are jungle green coloured. He uses a Westcastings bullet on his concrete floor and whacks it with a ball peen hammer, which always knocks a bit of coating off. Then he repeats it on one of his and the finish remains 100% intact, even thought the bullet is bent out of shape. I don't think his coating is all that superior, but he is a small operator and isn't as skimpy. He also offers choice in sizing.

I have seen the following colours black, reddy brown, brown, gold, silver, turqoise, Green, jungle green, olive. I would probably have 10000 of these in my reloading room at the moment.

The turqoise 405Gn 45/70 bullets work a treat out of my Trapdoor, with BP lube pushed into the lube grooves or a lube cookie underneath. I must try them unlubed, I'm sure they would stand the heat and not lead.

I have shot lots and lots of 240Gn coated bullets out of my 44mag at 1500fps+ velocities with no leading. Great stuff.

I find it hard to believe that American shooters don't use them. Maybe it is to do with perception of the 'Teflon Bullets' which is what we used to call them in the early days, 'teflon bullets'. I don't think they were teflon coated, but thats what we used to call them.

Mr Lone Colt uses a cement mixer and pours the coating in from a container and keeps adding it until the 'look right.' I can't say that I have seen an oven in his garage, so I don't know if he drys them using heat.

Ausglock
11-16-2011, 07:10 AM
FFOD.
I use Topscore projectiles with the gold coating. I find them better than Hawksbury river.
I have also tried some Vindicator out of Darwin. They are good too.
Never heard of "lone colt"
Where are they based?

Four Fingers of Death
11-16-2011, 08:16 AM
FFOD.
I use Topscore projectiles with the gold coating. I find them better than Hawksbury river.
I have also tried some Vindicator out of Darwin. They are good too.
Never heard of "lone colt"
Where are they based?

I have since updated the above post.

Darren Bennets is the guy behind Lone Colt. He shoots under the alias of Mr Long Colt in cowboy action (his main customer base). He is at Lithgow in NSW. Our club see a lot of IPSC shooters and they pretty much use his bullets exclusively.

He is an interesting guy. He is almost deaf and is a bit crippled up. He had a car reverse over him when he was a baby. Consequently if its not a personal visit or an email order forget it. He doesn't bother with the phone as he cannot hear well enough. He's a great guy, making the best out of a bad deal he was handed as a baby. He does all right and has a loyal customer base. He works all sorts of hours filling his orders. When you see him driving to a shoot, he crawls along with his little caravan on the back and a ton or so of bullets and shot in his little Jap pickup truck.

Ausglock
11-16-2011, 09:24 PM
FFOD.
He sounds a lot like John Conners at Beenleigh in QLD.
John goes to all the IPSC matches with his van loaded to the hilt with projectiles.

Four Fingers of Death
11-17-2011, 02:56 AM
Thems boolits or bullets, they ain't per-jeckt-tiles until they are airborne (or being projected towards the target), lol

Bullwolf
11-17-2011, 05:33 AM
I have been curious how spray painted boolits would perform for quite a while now.

I did most of this after reading the Pink Bullets thread:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=122461

So, I spray painted a batch of 9mm tumble lube boolits all over, using a can of VHT roll bar and chassis spray paint.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34487&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1311906578

I loaded up 50 or so of the black painted 9mm cast lead boolits using my standby load of Unique, minus a few tenths of a grain.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=539&pictureid=4119

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=539&pictureid=4170

I took the boolits to the range, and ran them all through my Tanfoglio TZ-75. They functioned a lot like my usual 9mm load does.

Accuracy was the same as my standard 9mm 124 grain tumble lube load at 25 yards. The painted boolits did not smoke excessively, lead, or foul the barrel with paint. Clean up was simple and easy. The fired rounds showed no signs of excess pressure, and the velocity in FPS was not that far off of my normal 9mm loading.

The boolits sure looked pretty, and they felt quite slick but the spray paint coating was far from what I would call durable when it came to handling. The paint was somewhat delicate. It was easy to chip the paint off the top of a boolit during seating, or on the feed ramp of the gun when chambering a round. I went back over the few little nicks that I made when assembling the boolits, with a Birchwood Casey touch up paint pen when I was all finished.

I didn't have the confidence to polish or tumble the painted rounds after that either, so they only received a gentle cloth wipe down after loading.

I don't think I would bother doing it all over again, unless I wanted to be able to easily identify my ammunition.

While the results were not especially negative, they were not overly positive either. It wasn't all that easy to get an even application of paint all over the entire boolit, and the delicate coating of paint took a lot longer to dry and cure than a light coat of Allox or 45-45-10 does.

The painted boolits did work, and shoot just fine, I just didn't think that they were worth the extra effort for me at the hobbyist level.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After seeing what another board member had done with jig paint, I also tried coating a few boolits with some Pro-Tec powder paint that I bought at Cabelas.

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_311665_999_01?rgn=0,0,1003,767&scl=3.4863636363636363&fmt=jpeg&id=1isKtoCq0KM-uFb7IIHNxP

You can check the stuff out here:
http://www.csipaint.com/index.asp

It's a fishing lure and jig paint, and it made an extremely hard and durable coating. I heated up some 9mm boolits in the oven, and dipped them in the powder paint, then I baked the coating on for a while and let it cool. Perhaps I did it wrong, as I have never coated my own fishing lures before. I noticed that the boolits were quite a bit larger after the coating was applied.

The coated boolits went from .358 to around .370 or larger. I ran 3-4 of the coated boolits through a Lee push through sizer. It took a LOT of effort to size them, and in some cases I ended up shearing off the coating doing so.

I had a couple of keepers, but the coating was so hard that I chickened out and did not shoot the Pro-Tec powder coated boolits. I still have a couple of them sitting on my loading bench. They sure are glossy and slick to handle though.


- Bullwolf

Spanners
12-22-2011, 12:17 AM
Anymore on this topic?

Would love to be able to purchase the "HY-TEK SUPERCOAT" used in Ozzie for my own personal use, but cant find too much about it

geargnasher
12-22-2011, 01:13 AM
Has anyone tried FutureŽ floor wax as a boolit lube/coating? (it's not really a wax, it's a water-based strippable acrylic) It also goes by the names "Klear", and "Pledge Premium Finish".

Not on boolits, but I've thought about it and at one time checked the MSDS trying to get an idea of what it was. I think after getting a better idea of what it was I decided not to try it.

You have me thinking about it now, though. I remembered that when I was a kid my father and I enjoyed making rubber band pistols, and eventually got very fancy with them, making full-sized models with working internals and using a falling pin as the release mechanism. All of them were made from pine with hardwood working parts. The part of interest here is that we developed ways to finish the wood so it would look like metal, and the best finish we got was using Future floor wax, bluing (like the stuff old ladies use in their hair), and powdered graphite. We also made a "brown" finish using just the floor wax and "red oxide" concrete pigment. The finishes were thin, very durable, and easy to apply. Might work for boolits with the graphite added, or plain. That floor finish will stick to anything.

Gear

Windy City Kid
12-25-2011, 02:30 PM
Bullet Master Lube is Sandstrom Products 47A dry film lubricant.

Sandstrom doesn't make 47A anymore, but they have very similar products.

I tried Sandstrom 28A dry film lubricant, I bought the air dry spray can version.

I cleaned and degreased the 9mm 147gr. cast boolits with Naphtha as Sandstrom recommended.

I sprayed a thin coat of 28A on the 9mm 147gr. cast boolits and let them fully cure for 24 hours. It drys to the touch in about a minute.

I resized the cast boolits with my Star sizer after the boolits were fully cured.

When the 28A dry film lubricant is fully cured you can not scratch it off the cast boolits, it is tough stuff.

I loaded the 9mm 147gr. cast boolits with 3.8gr of WSF.

I fired 100 rounds of the 9mm 147gr. coated boolits.

The smoke was about the same as jacketed bullets, there was very little smoke.

There was not any leading or fouling in the barrel.

I pushed one cleaning patch down the bore and the bore looked like I didn't even fire a round.

The accuracy was very good, it was the same as my regular cast boolits.


Now for the down side of coating the cast boolits with Sandstrom 28A.

(1) It's hard to evenly coat the cast boolits.
(2) There is a lot of wasted product when spraying the boolits.
(3) You have to spray the cast boolits outside, there is MEK in the product.
(4) Sandstrom 28A is very expensive, $33 a can shipped.

There are other ways to coat the cast boolits with Sandstrom, but not at a do it at home budget.

Dip spinning is the preferred method.

(1) Dip spinning, no waste of product.
(2) Dip spinning, Volume. ( You can do a few thousand at a time.)
(3) You can by the Sandstrom Products by the gallon, it is cheaper by the gallon.

A Dip Spinning machine starts at $18,000.


It was a fun experiment and I hope it helps out others.

Four Fingers of Death
12-25-2011, 04:15 PM
My mate casts bullets for a living and tumbles them in a cement mixer, pouring the 'paint' on as they roll around until the colour of the bullets look ok. They look as good as any other commercial coated bullets. I don't know how he gets them to dry, I must have a look next time.

Hang Fire
12-26-2011, 03:40 PM
My mate casts bullets for a living and tumbles them in a cement mixer, pouring the 'paint' on as they roll around until the colour of the bullets look ok. They look as good as any other commercial coated bullets. I don't know how he gets them to dry, I must have a look next time.

Hmm, many of us have rotary tumblers laying around. (wifey use to do rocks) If the price of the ingredients got low enough, I wonder if the tumbler would work?

Four Fingers of Death
12-26-2011, 06:17 PM
Hmm, many of us have rotary tumblers laying around. (wifey use to do rocks) If the price of the ingredients got low enough, I wonder if the tumbler would work?

If a cement mixer works a rotary tumbler would definetly work on a smaller quantity. You would be also coating the bowl with virtually impossible to remove muck, so it had want to be a bowl you owned or one that your wife was definetly finished with. Mind you if you ifnored the new internal paint job and just went back to tumbling rocks, it would probably be clean again at the end.

A sealed off container would prevent you (or at least make if difficult for you to be)gradually topping up the paint until the amount was right. Mind you if you weighed the container at the start and at the finish, you would know how much to put in next time.

Getting them out of the container and dried off without affecting the finish of the bullets is the mystery at this point. Maybe he just tumbles them until they are dry. They end up with a glossy finish, so I can't imagine that would be the procedure, I could be wrong however.

I will pop by his place on Wednesday, it is impossible to deal with him over the phone as he is about 80% deaf.

Windy City Kid
12-27-2011, 11:22 AM
Four Fingers of Death,

I would love to know how your mate coats cast boolits.

If your mate will tell you, what is the "paint" coating he uses?

Thanks,

WCK

zxcvbob
12-27-2011, 11:39 AM
It sounds like the "pan" process of making candy.

leftiye
12-28-2011, 01:53 AM
Any entre preneurs out there? Maybe we could buy Sandstrom 28A by the gallon or 5 and repackage it into smaller cans (1/2 pint, pint etc.). We could call it "Bullet Master II." Then it could be applied as Bullet Master was - roll on liquid, or dipped.

Until that is, someone figgers out what them Aussies, and Europeans are painting them there boolits with.

ScorpioMk
12-28-2011, 03:22 PM
I havent cast anything yet but really want to get into it. I was wondering if there is a possibility of damage to WW boolits in a tumbler? I am not quite sure how hard they are, but in a metal tumbler of some sort with the added weight of other boolits landing on each other could they be damaged?

Bullet Caster
12-29-2011, 03:01 AM
Welcome to the forum ScorpioMk. You will find a plethora of information here on Cast Boolits and most anyone would be glad to help you and answer any questions that you may have.

I am also new to boolit casting and have only about 2 casting sessions with my two Lee boolit moulds. I don't have a tumbler so I cannot answer your above question, but I feel certain that someone would have the knowledge to answer your question about tumbling cast boolits in a tumbler. Personally I would not suggest it.

Everyone here has some basic knowledge about casting and reloading. If you have specific questions and don't want to wait for an answer in the thread posts, then go to our chatroom; there's usually a very knowledgeable person hanging around there that would be more than glad to answer any questions that you may have. Everyone has been very helpful to me and I'm sure they will make you welcome as well.

My first question for you would be what are you interested in casting for? What pistol or rifle are you wanting to cast and reload for? I started out casting for my pistols and will move to rifle boolit casting in the very near future. I got a pound of rifle powder for Christmas and I cannot wait to get some skinnys reloaded for my .30-06. BC

ScorpioMk
12-29-2011, 03:48 PM
9mm to start and 300 aac later. I'm waiting for a form 4 for a Ti-Rant 9mm so I'd like to be able to cast heavy subsonic 9mm boolits and can also run subsonic 300 aac through it too.

If the painting can be figured out I would much rather go that route instead of conventional lubing. It would hopefully help keep lead/lube from building up inside my silencer (it is the take apart model so its not the end of the world) but I'd like to be able to shoot a lot between cleaning it.

Four Fingers of Death
12-30-2011, 02:32 AM
I just remembered Sodbuster, who used to own and operate a comercial cast bullt concern. He has since sold it off and now just produces cast rifle boolits.

He used to make the coated bullets and I used a lot of them. The process is a bit more involved than you would think (life's like that isn't it???).

The coating is a chemical mixed by a backyard chemist In Sydney. It is probably about $AU500 for a 4 litre tin (about 1US Gallon) now as Soddy thinks the last one he bought cost him about $390 some four or so years ago.

Apparently you can coat about 100,000 bullets per litre. I imagine, the larger the batch, the less wastage there would be (leastways. thats how I feel it would be but I don't know that for a fact).

The process involves coating the bullets with t he chemical mix. This is stirred in, my deaf mate uses a cement mixer, but a lot of guys mix by hand apparently. Once an even coating is applied, they are tipped out and allowed to dry.

Then they are cooked for about 20mins and allowed to cool. The cooking process is repeated twice again, cooling between 'cookings.'

If the cooking process is not properly done, the coating can shed and give off pretty impressive fouling. Properly applied they do not lead, not need lube and can be driven flat out without problems.

I have sent several thousand of these downrange at around 1400+fps without a problem and have a squiz (quick look) down the barrel every blue moon. They never seem to need cleaning.

Apparently the silouette guys run them ar 2000+fps without lube or gas checks wiithout problems.

My mate is looking for the name and address of the chemical guy. I don't know how you will go shipping it to the States. Once shooters use the coated bullets, it is hard to sell them any other type.

Even the guys I know that are dedicated casters, buy the coated bullets for their pistols and just cast their own for their rifles.

Hang Fire
12-30-2011, 03:14 AM
I just remembered Sodbuster, who used to own and operate a comercial cast bullt concern. He has since sold it off and now just produces cast rifle boolits.

He used to make the coated bullets and I used a lot of them. The process is a bit more involved than you would think (life's like that isn't it???).

The coating is a chemical mixed by a backyard chemist In Sydney. It is probably about $AU500 for a 4 litre tin (about 1US Gallon) now as Soddy thinks the last one he bought cost him about $390 some four or so years ago.

Apparently you can coat about 100,000 bullets per litre. I imagine, the larger the batch, the less wastage there would be (leastways. thats how I feel it would be but I don't know that for a fact).

The process involves coating the bullets with t he chemical mix. This is stirred in, my deaf mate uses a cement mixer, but a lot of guys mix by hand apparently. Once an even coating is applied, they are tipped out and allowed to dry.

Then they are cooked for about 20mins and allowed to cool. The cooking process is repeated twice again, cooling between 'cookings.'

If the cooking process is not properly done, the coating can shed and give off pretty impressive fouling. Properly applied they do not lead, not need lube and can be driven flat out without problems.

I have sent several thousand of these downrange at around 1400+fps without a problem and have a squiz (quick look) down the barrel every blue moon. They never seem to need cleaning.

Apparently the silouette guys run them ar 2000+fps without lube or gas checks wiithout problems.

My mate is looking for the name and address of the chemical guy. I don't know how you will go shipping it to the States. Once shooters use the coated bullets, it is hard to sell them any other type.

Even the guys I know that are dedicated casters, buy the coated bullets for their pistols and just cast their own for their rifles.


Thanks for the info, now know much more about the process than I did.

Four Fingers of Death
12-30-2011, 06:31 AM
J & M Specialised Products P/L Is the guy, he doesn't seem to have a site of his own, here is a link to his address, etc.

http://www.truelocal.com.au/business/j-and-m-specialized-products-pty-ltd/upper-lansdowne

It is a public holiday here on Monday, so I will ring him on Tuesday and see if he can send the goop to the States and how much, etc.

Slaney
01-05-2012, 11:20 PM
J & M Specialised Products P/L Is the guy, he doesn't seem to have a site of his own, here is a link to his address, etc.

http://www.truelocal.com.au/business/j-and-m-specialized-products-pty-ltd/upper-lansdowne

It is a public holiday here on Monday, so I will ring him on Tuesday and see if he can send the goop to the States and how much, etc.

Hi

Long time lurker, first time poster...

"Four fingers" I've been following this thread since the beginning and am really keen to hear if you spoke with J & M....

I even registered just so I could bump this thread!! (I could ring him myself but didn't want to be annoying him with the same questions if you had already spoken to him)

Cheers
:coffee:

Four Fingers of Death
01-06-2012, 03:44 AM
Opps! Been rushing around with the holiday and most non retail business' seem to be closed until Monday the 9th. I tried a few other places with unrelated stuff and they are all closed till Monday and I just plain forgot about this one, sorry. I tried to ring him this afternoon (Fri), but the phone was continually engaged. Will try again Monday. I will put a reminder on my phone this time.

Slaney
01-06-2012, 06:13 AM
Looking forward to hearing about this. Seems to be a lot of "secrets" regarding formulas and sellers of these coatings.

Cheers:popcorn:

Four Fingers of Death
01-06-2012, 07:56 AM
Looking forward to hearing about this. Seems to be a lot of "secrets" regarding formulas and sellers of these coatings.

Cheers:popcorn:

Thats reasonable, the guys who deveolped the coatings would have spent a lot of time and effort and possibly hard earnt bucks getting it right, they wouldn't want someone coming in and getting a free ride at their expense.

Slaney
01-06-2012, 08:46 AM
Not looking for a free ride, just looking for a retailer that can and will supply the coating:confused:

Four Fingers of Death
01-06-2012, 06:35 PM
Not looking for a free ride, just looking for a retailer that can and will supply the coating:confused:

I didn't mean you or us were looking for a free ride, but there would be plenty of chemical suppliers who would plagerise his efforts and undercut him in a heartbeat. A small operator like this guy would have to be on guard for something like that.

Hopefully if he doesn't ship to the states, he may be able to point us to another product/manafacturer that supplies similar stuff. All bets are off until Monday anyway.

As a point of interest, he also adds some sort of colourant for the different customers.

Windy City Kid
01-13-2012, 10:44 PM
Any new information with the bullet coating?

Four Fingers of Death
01-14-2012, 05:57 AM
Any new information with the bullet coating?

Whoops! I put a reminder on my new phone, but it is a lot less user friendly than my last one and I keep missing teh reminders. I rang him a lot of times and just got a busy signal (probably got the phone off the hook).

Will try again on Monday.

singleshot
01-14-2012, 12:18 PM
Krylon Fusion contains a solvent that etches plastic, that's how it adheres to the slick stuff. It has no benefits over conventional acrylic paints for boolits as far as I can see, but I think there are a lot of products in aerosol cans that do.

I'll even give you one: Amsoil brand "heavy duty metal protector and motorcycle chain lube". Basically a thin version of LLA in a spray can, and it costs about eight bucks for 18 net ounces, and it dries like 45/45/10 making it simple to use and second only to White Label's X-lox in economy.

Gear

I've used this to push-size boolits, then tumble lube after, works fine for that and HAVE thought about trying it alone.

Four Fingers of Death
01-15-2012, 02:09 AM
I remember reading an artice in an Aussie gunzine many years ago. The writer 'paper' patched his boolits with teflon plumber's tape then lined the boolits and sprayed them with G96 Polyurethane stock spray. This allowed him to get jacketed velocities with no leading. I never got around to trying it. I think if you bore in mind the barrel's twist direction and were careful, you could just get by with the plumber's tape.

Be aware (I wasn't until a few years ago) that there are three (that I know about) levels with plumber's tape. The normal stuff which is very cheap, aimed at the home handyman, which is white coloured on a blue reel. Then there is the pro plumber's tape which is light pink in colour on a dark pink roll and finally the yellow reel which is pro level for gas pipes (I haver never used this stuff). There is a world of difference between the home handyman and pro stuff and I refuse to use the cheap stuff anymore, the pro level stuff is so good and worth the money. If you were going to try this experiment, I would recommend paying the extra dollar or whatever it is a roll.

Stephen Cohen
01-15-2012, 03:19 AM
I remember reading that artical too, was some years back though.

Hang Fire
01-15-2012, 03:49 AM
New to me, but I see Cabela's is now carrying Herter's (CCI Blazer) ammo which has a blue nylon clad boolit.

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_218153_999_01?rgn=0,0,1761,910&scl=3.354285714285714&fmt=jpeg&id=00GJAtQ0T_vk2PZ55hbeCe

Jeff H
01-15-2012, 11:52 PM
Whew! I read through the entire thread and didn't see this addressed, but I may have missed it.......

What happens when you recover the coated lead and melt it back down?

Does it burn off or do you just scoop it out like bullet jackets and gas checks?

Ausglock
01-16-2012, 04:44 AM
G'day, Jeff.
You are correct, Sir.
The coating floats to the surface and gets scooped off with the dross.

I often get given loaded rounds and rouge bullets by other shooters. These get pulled and added to the melt. The coating changes colour (gold turns dark brown) but doesn't burn.

Last year, I was given a few 1000 Hawksbury River brand "Blackhawks". These came from a bad batch of bullets from a few years ago. The black coating would not stay on the bullet as it traversed the bore. When these were melted down, the coating did burn off.

Jeff H
01-16-2012, 12:38 PM
G'day, Jeff.
You are correct, Sir.
The coating floats to the surface and gets scooped off with the dross.....

Thanks, Ausglock.
Best to hear this from someone who has seen it, done it. There is a lot of guessing going on in the thread - positive guessing, which means folks are working their beans in overdrive and on overtime.;) I will likely succumb to the temptation to "spray paint" some lead myself and will post anything I find.

What about abrasion? Has anyone experienced any positive or negative aspects of a particular treatment? I only ask because there are color coatings that include solid pigments of all sorts - not necessarily chosen for their low coefficient of friction but for their suitability to affect/enhance the aesthetic.

Great thread! I have yet to even mix the stuff I collected for 45/45/10, but this is what makes casting and reloading so fascinating. Even just the variations on how one applies LLA can keep a fella busy for a while.

bartman
01-18-2012, 02:13 AM
Hey I just got threw reading this thread and it got me thinking why not use por-15? I have painted some rims and other car parts with it and I am very impressed. I brushed on and it layed perfectly flat when cured, a high gloss thats as hard as powder coat. You can thin it at ten percent and spray it on. They claim it penetrates metal and hardens it. The only down side is that it is pricey at 30 bucks a pint but it does spread a long way. Im not shure how it reacts to heat that might be a problem. What do you guys think?

uscra112
01-18-2012, 11:58 PM
Been ignoring this thread for a long while, but finally read it. What's encouraging to me is the fact that the boolit suppliers are keeping their process secret. My 45 years of industrial experience taught me that "secret" means that the thing is so darned simple that anybody can do it, once they know how, and probably so simple that it's public domain at that. If it were anything revolutionary, they'd get a patent. That's why they have to keep it secret. Keep working in cracking the code, guys !

Four Fingers of Death
01-19-2012, 05:38 AM
I got onto Joe Ban the guy who makes the chemical all of the commercial casters use in Australia. He wouldn't go into the formula of course, but said it had absolutely no teflon in it. He said the early coated bullets were teflon based and supplied by DuPont. He worked for them at the time. When the hoo-haar about the Winchester Talons came out, the dangers of using teflon in forearms were also realised by DuPont (they provided the coating for Wiinchester), they pulled the pin on it completely.

Joe was approached by commercial casters here to find a replacement product and the rest is history. Buying normal cast and lubed bullets off a commercial caster in Australia is all but impossible and a special order item with a few. There are one or two guys who specialise in black powder bullets and use traditional methods (well one or two that I know about, as well as a few club armourers, etc, there are probably heaps out there, but none in a big way). All the major players only supply coated bullets. I have spoken to a few and they say the coated bullets are pretty much foolproof and they never, ever have a customer complaint or problem, too easy.

Part of the problem is with the Telflon is that with the pressures and heat involved in firing it out of a gun, especially a revolver is that fine pieces of teflon get into a mist and are very dangerous. They also let lead 'vapour' or elemental lead (I can't remember the exact term/s he used) particles with are an extreme health hazard, especially in an indoor range environment. His product is the only one of it's type in the world that has withstood independent lab tests and is guaranteed not to produce these very undesirable and dangerous by-products.

The chemical is applied in a tumbler type appliance or by hand using a stick or stirrer. The first coat is extremely important and is to be as thin a coat as possible. they are then tipped out of the tumbler and spreadout to dry. They is then 'cooked' in an oven (my caster friend says 20mins, but Joe said about 10 minutes). They are allowed to cool and are re-coated with a thicker coating, tipped out, dried and cooked again.

I have fired many thousands of these bullets and I have retrieved many from the butts at the range. The coating is always completely intact, even in the grooves left by the rifling. My friend demonstrates the toughness by placing a coated bullt on his concrete floor and striking the bullet with all his might. The bullet is always bent out of shape, but the coating is always intact.

He sells the chemical in 5 litre (a US Gallon is approx 4ltr) containers. He is willing to ship overseas, but will have to construct more solid packaging. He usually ships 4x small drums in a heavy cardboard box. He says commercial casters producing a million bullets a month, go through approximately a litre a month. Group buy???

I will be treating my commercial cast boolits with this coating with a little more respect in future.

He is also developing with another guy (Joe is not a shooter, just a chemist) a coating this will withstand 3000fps+, that will be interesting.

Slaney
01-19-2012, 04:39 PM
What price was he quoting? One litre would do a lifetime. I'm in for a group buy!

Windy City Kid
01-19-2012, 04:54 PM
Four Fingers,

If we buy the coating from your friend Joe, will he give us the instructions how to coat the cast bullets with his coating?

I think we need to get a Group Buy Honcho for Joe's Bullet Coating.

Pigslayer
01-19-2012, 05:57 PM
I'll stick with SPG lube. Not into designer bullets.

uscra112
01-19-2012, 06:40 PM
I'll stick with SPG lube. Not into designer bullets.

The tumbling process cannot do good things for the uniformity of cast boolit the bases, so for the serious rifle accuracy buffs I suspect this may be a non-starter.

Importing this may require paperwork that will reveal what's in it, by the way. You'd have to be able generate the MSDS to transport it commercially.

Four Fingers of Death
01-20-2012, 12:31 AM
The tumbling process cannot do good things for the uniformity of cast boolit the bases, so for the serious rifle accuracy buffs I suspect this may be a non-starter.

Importing this may require paperwork that will reveal what's in it, by the way. You'd have to be able generate the MSDS to transport it commercially.

I don't think it makes much difference, our top shooters use them in competition and compete against top shooters in the states and elsewhere. I have fired lots of bullets which were cast in the same mould by the same caster, both traditonally sized and lubed as well as coated and didn't notice any difference in accuracy.

Joe is well aware of the export requirements and told me what forms, permits, etc were needed, but it went in one ear and out the other as it didn't really effect me.

His contact details are as follows:

Joe Ban
J&M Specialized Products P/L
230 Putta Road Upper Lansdowne NSW Australia 2430.

Phone +61 2 65569004 Mobile +61 412 140821

I think it would be best if you dealt with him directly, considering the cost involved and he seems quiet happy to discuss the procedure, etc. I know calls pre paid from the Post Office, etc in Australia are dirt cheap, it would be worth getting it from the horse's mouth.

The chemical's cost ranges from approximately $AU50-$AU60 a litre. The metallic styled coatings are dearer and don't cover as many bullets, (45-45K as against 50-60K for the standard coatings). The advantage of the metallic style coatings, apart from looks are improved lubricity (is that a word?), it gets harder and better the faster it goes. There is no abrasive in the metallic finish. The advantages of the standard coatings is that they are able to be spread thinner, etc.

This carries a dangerous goods listign and requires a lot extra packaging for overseas shipment.

Decanting and re-distribution once arriving in the States is a big problem as well.

I made a mistake in the amount of coverage reported recently, still goes a long way though.

Possibly

Four Fingers of Death
01-20-2012, 12:55 AM
I forgot to add, it is better if you talk directly to Joe as you can discuss your requirements and he can design your chemical to exactly suit your needs. He doesn't just sell stock lines, but mixes each batch to the client;s specific requirements, eg, metallic/not metallic finish, low speed/high speed, etc, etc. I am not trying to palm you guys off, but it is such an expensive and heavily personalised product.

Slaney
01-20-2012, 02:30 AM
Many thanks for your efforts 4 fingers! I'll give him a call Monday.

If I buy 5 litres of the stuff would anyone be interested in sharing the cost, maybe a litre each?

Once again, thanks for the time and effort. [smilie=w:

Four Fingers of Death
01-20-2012, 05:24 PM
That's no prob. I Learnt a lot along the way as well.

bartman
01-20-2012, 05:37 PM
I will get one if you can get ahold of the guy. Just try to figure out the total cost and how to apply it.

Windy City Kid
01-20-2012, 09:55 PM
I would be in for one litre if a few other people want to split the shipping to the USA.

I wonder what the shipping would be to the USA?

Four Fingers of Death
01-26-2012, 11:15 PM
I have been contacted by Joe. He said that he had a phone call from someone in the States to his cell phone and the reception at his end was awful. He doesn't know who it was from. Ifth eperson concerned could contact him on his landline (cheaper anyway) he will answer any queries.

He stated separetly that someone from Bayou Bullet Co contacted him.

He is keen to do business in the States and anyone who is interested should contact him or give me your contact details so I can pass them on.

I am not affiliated with Joe or J&M, I just have ended up being a contact after getting involved in this thread.

I have been using bullets with his coatings for many years and he turns out a first rate product, which is totally safe to use, so I don't have any qualms about referring him or helping who I can. Mick.

Windy City Kid
01-28-2012, 01:44 AM
Four Fingers,

In post # 174 you gave us a link to his phone number.

Which phone number is his landline?

Is it the 9004 number or the 9304 number?

PM me his landline number.

Thanks,

WCK

Four Fingers of Death
01-28-2012, 07:18 AM
+61 2 6556 9004 is the landline. Good luck.

Windy City Kid
01-28-2012, 10:41 AM
Four Fingers,

When is the best time of the day to call Joe?

This would be Eastern Daylight Time.

Thanks,

WCK

Four Fingers of Death
01-29-2012, 01:08 AM
Between 9-5 Monday to Friday I would imagine. Eastern Standard time (Sydney/Vladivostok time).

PAT303
01-29-2012, 05:04 AM
I would be very keen to get some of this ''paint'' and try it.I think if it does what it's said it does we could see the end of grooved boolits and smooth sided aka jacketed boolits could be the future.I would really like to shoot a .303 cartridge loaded with a nice red coloured dry lubed 180-200grn .316dia boolit or green 150grn .268 6.5x55 number. Pat

Four Fingers of Death
01-29-2012, 06:38 AM
A lot of occasional black powder cowboy shooters (we have a few BP only shoots, probably the same everywhere) that use the coated bullets with BP. They generally use an overpowder wad and a grease cookie. The funny thing is I tried to pan lube a bunch using Pearl Lube from Darstardly Dan (Big Lube moulds). No way Jose' would it stick to the bullets! I ended up having to use a cookie. I have never tried running them through a lube sizer.

Interesting stuff.

Four Fingers of Death
01-29-2012, 06:58 AM
I would be very keen to get some of this ''paint'' and try it.I think if it does what it's said it does we could see the end of grooved boolits and smooth sided aka jacketed boolits could be the future.I would really like to shoot a .303 cartridge loaded with a nice red coloured dry lubed 180-200grn .316dia boolit or green 150grn .268 6.5x55 number. Pat

Hawkesbury River Bullets sell a coated 303 Bullet, 180Gn from memory. Why not try them out? They are Turquoise/Blue however. I think they also sell Black coated bullets, called Blackhawks.

wrinkles
02-02-2012, 03:27 PM
Has anybody tried a metallic paint? For example rustoleum silver metallic paint used to paint pipes and tanks? I have some at home I need to dig out of storage and try sometime.

finishman2000
02-04-2012, 07:27 AM
youwouldn't want to use paint. the stuff will more than likely goo up the rifling and act like a leaded up barrel. a coating that that cross links.... aka... one that will not wet back out with solvent is what is needed if you want to try it.


anyone moving forward on this? i would like to give it a try but kinda don't see how this works since all my heads need to be sized. i wonder if they use "special" molds that are slighty undersized compared to normal molds.

Four Fingers of Death
02-04-2012, 11:03 AM
youwouldn't want to use paint. the stuff will more than likely goo up the rifling and act like a leaded up barrel. a coating that that cross links.... aka... one that will not wet back out with solvent is what is needed if you want to try it.


anyone moving forward on this? i would like to give it a try but kinda don't see how this works since all my heads need to be sized. i wonder if they use "special" molds that are slighty undersized compared to normal molds.

Heads? No offence, but we call them boolits around here, lol.

In my mates little sweatshop, he has a big Star lubesizer just as you come into the shop. and he offers the bullets sized to what you require, eg, 427 or 429, etc. I will have to check that one out.

plamenti
02-10-2012, 10:01 AM
Yesterday I made my first painted boolits. The paint is from Italy and here is the link - http://www.inver.com/en/.
Im very satisfied from the result. Last year I shot only with painted boolits (http://www.ares-gun.sk/?lang=english and http://ammo.dynamic-arms.com/)- no lead in the barrel, excelent accuracy and...5 % less powder compared with FMJ.
I made three different types 9x19 (Lee 124 Grain Tumble Lube Truncated Cone and 125 Grain 2 Ogive Radius, RCBS 147 Grain Flat Nose) and one .40 (Lee 175 Grain Truncated Cone)
Here is my result:
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0040/026324508.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0040/026324511.jpg?r=0

It's easy and very cheap. The needed paint for one boolit costs $0.002!!! Yes, for $0,01 you can paint five boolits. I buy 1 kilo for $5, and with this quantity I can paint approximatealy 3K boolits.

Best regards from Bulgaria, Eastern Europe :)

wrinkles
02-10-2012, 10:18 AM
Do you paint them then size them or size then paint?

Four Fingers of Death
02-10-2012, 10:41 AM
Thats interesting plamenti, but what is the exact product? The link just opened up a site.

After learning about the dangers of using teflon at high temps and pressures, I'd be wanting to make sure the paint was free of it before I used it.

plamenti
02-10-2012, 03:50 PM
Do you paint them then size them or size then paint?

First paint, then size with Lee boolits sizer dies. I "bake" the boolits in one old stove - 30 minutes, 180 degree Celsius.
This is my Powder Coating Gun - http://www.eastwood.com/original-hotcoat-powdercoating-gun-1.html
Here is my whole equipment:
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0040/026324500.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0040/026324498.jpg?r=0

Four Fingers of Death, I'm sorry, my mistake - you can use any kind of Epoxypolyester powder paint. Here - http://www.inver.com/en/powder_coatings/epoxypolyester/78/788/ . Here is the site of the distributor in my country Bulgaria - http://plasto.bg/articledetails.php?ArticleID=25 .
I don't know what is the equivalent of this Epoxypolyester powder paint in US.
I use withe paint, becouse is the cheapest. The collor is not important for the quality. With the other links I just want to show what kind ot boolits you can make. I don't hear about any dangers of using polimer painted boolits and I can't say anything.

Four Fingers of Death
02-11-2012, 07:25 AM
I don't hear about any dangers of using polimer painted boolits and I can't say anything.

It is the Teflon that is the problem apparently, not Polymers.

Thanks for your helpful response.

ScorpioMk
02-12-2012, 11:07 PM
Anyone seen/tried the bear creek moly coated bullets? Searching that name doesnt bring up much on the site and doesnt seem to have been brought up in this thread.

Hang Fire
02-14-2012, 03:35 AM
Yesterday I made my first painted boolits. The paint is from Italy and here is the link - http://www.inver.com/en/.
Im very satisfied from the result. Last year I shot only with painted boolits (http://www.ares-gun.sk/?lang=english and http://ammo.dynamic-arms.com/)- no lead in the barrel, excelent accuracy and...5 % less powder compared with FMJ.
I made three different types 9x19 (Lee 124 Grain Tumble Lube Truncated Cone and 125 Grain 2 Ogive Radius, RCBS 147 Grain Flat Nose) and one .40 (Lee 175 Grain Truncated Cone)
Here is my result:
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0040/026324508.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0040/026324511.jpg?r=0

It's easy and very cheap. The needed paint for one boolit costs $0.002!!! Yes, for $0,01 you can paint five boolits. I buy 1 kilo for $5, and with this quantity I can paint approximatealy 3K boolits.

Best regards from Bulgaria, Eastern Europe :)

Those boolits look damn good to me, thanks for posting pics and information.

What if any was the build up?

plamenti
02-14-2012, 03:03 PM
Still having minor problems, but I'm working to fix them - sometimes the paint is thick and I have a problem with removing the boolits from the tray, some of the coating breaks off.
But they are very good for me, cheap and works great.

Four Fingers of Death
02-14-2012, 06:57 PM
Still having minor problems, but I'm working to fix them - sometimes the paint is thick and I have a problem with removing the boolits from the tray, some of the coating breaks off.
But they are very good for me, cheap and works great.

With normal paint spraying, the only way to achieve success is to have an ultralight first coat (There is a huge temptation to lay it on straight away, lol but this is a sure way to get too thick a coat and runs. I learnt this the hard way fixing old rust bucket cars years ago).

leftiye
02-14-2012, 11:14 PM
Is there a source of epoxypolyester paint domestically? There could be major problems importing these things. Conversely, someone might be importing them already. Is anybody pursuing either the Inver paint (dry powder might not be as problematical to import), or the Australian products? I tried the Inver UK website and it would not load. As I only speak English, I thought the Britts might be easier to understand. I'd be interested in a paint containing Moly disulfide maybe.

Hang Fire
02-14-2012, 11:59 PM
Just google epoxypolyester powder coating:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=15&gs_id=e&xhr=t&q=epoxy+polyester+powder+coating&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=epoxypolyester+&aq=0l&aqi=g-l4&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=a69f87f31da53f33&biw=960&bih=465&bs=1

And Eastwood carries the works needed: http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-coating/pwders.html?srccode=ga050090&gclid=CJyM14yLn64CFQ5ihwodzk3-4A

ScorpioMk
02-15-2012, 01:48 AM
If anyone does get around to ordering the paint I would buy some too. I will be loading standard 9mm and subsonic as well as subsonic 300blk. Email is scorpiomjk@yahoo.com if I forget to check this thread for a bit.

Those with any knowledge of using the paint, what happens with sizing? Before? Before and after or just after paint, or not at all?? I would love to be able to drop boolits, paint and shoot without sizing. Accuracy is not my main priority, just like to plink with friends and if I get my ffl/sot later this year I will have some hungry post samples to feed.

plamenti
02-15-2012, 02:53 AM
...
Those with any knowledge of using the paint, what happens with sizing? Before? Before and after or just after paint, or not at all?? I would love to be able to drop boolits, paint and shoot without sizing.
...
I calibrate after the paint with Lee boolits sizer dies to .355 and the sizing is smooth and easy. The size of the painted boolits increases to .362 - you decide whether to size or not.

plamenti
02-15-2012, 03:10 AM
With normal paint spraying, the only way to achieve success is to have an ultralight first coat (There is a huge temptation to lay it on straight away, lol but this is a sure way to get too thick a coat and runs. I learnt this the hard way fixing old rust bucket cars years ago).
Here you can't make first coat - it's only one. I consulted with a professional painter, and he says that is very important the dish and boolits surfaces to be perfectly clean - no lubricants, no oxides, no dust or dirt.
It's needed to obtain a good static - the most important thing to become a good polymer coating.

Rafe Covington
02-15-2012, 04:01 AM
Its a great idea, will probably never happen on a production basis. This would drive the anti-lead bullet people crazy. It would require a large cash outlay to get started, times are hard.

Rafe:drinks:

plamenti
02-16-2012, 03:49 PM
Ares (http://www.ares-gun.sk/?lang=english) produces millions every season...

Four Fingers of Death
02-16-2012, 07:32 PM
[QUOTE=Rafe Covington;1591166]Its a great idea, will probably never happen on a production basis. This would drive the anti-lead bullet people crazy. It would require a large cash outlay to get started, times are hard.

Rafe:drinks:[/QUO

Polymer coated is pretty much the only way non jacketed bullets are sold in Australia.

old_haidouk
02-16-2012, 11:02 PM
palmenti, if only Ares would share how they make those bullets so nice and purty.

Dobr angliski!

Hang Fire
02-17-2012, 12:04 AM
plamenti did explain, the epoxypolyester powder coat comes in those colors, go to Eastman here, they not only sell the powder coating, but the guns and a powder coating video guide on how to apply.

http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-coating.html

plamanti did his and I am now considering trying to do some myself along with the prep for powder coating. http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-pre-painting-prep.html

old_haidouk
02-17-2012, 01:49 AM
The bullets that Ares and other companies sale are fully coated, including the base.

Hang Fire
02-17-2012, 03:37 AM
Uh, ya said look nice and purty, I thought plamenti's boolits filled that bill.

plamenti
02-17-2012, 06:56 AM
palmenti, if only Ares would share...
Not only Ares offer boolits coated with polymer paint. I give them for example, because they are damn good and their stock is with top quality.
But unfortunately Slovakia is too far from my country, the shipping costs a lot and so I'm making such type boolits for myself.

The bullets that Ares and other companies sale are fully coated, including the base.
Not all, they also offer boolits with unpainted base. Just look the pictures closely.
And here is a pic of a test performed with such boolits.

http://www.wieder-lader.de/assets/images/A40x2.JPG

Here is some loading data (aber ist auf Deutsch :D).
http://www.wieder-lader.de/html/ladedaten.html

Four Fingers of Death
02-17-2012, 08:07 AM
The bullets that Ares and other companies sale are fully coated, including the base.

Thats because they pour the coating on while tumbling, light coat first up, cook then another coat and cook. Makes for a pretty tough well finished product.

Here are a few samples, the blue 38 Super Bullets are from Hawkesbury River Bullet Company (pretty much the original guys who started the coated bullet scene here, changed hands a few times since) and the green ones 44s I think are from Mr Lone Colt in Lithgow, he is a one man band. They both use the same coating with different colours.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Reloading%20and%20Casting/20120217_202915.jpg

ScorpioMk
02-17-2012, 10:34 AM
Sizing again. You said after paint .362, then size to .355 but what was the size before paint? Kind of wondering what size they/you are dropping them, and if/or how much smaller boolits need to be at the start to do the powder coating or painting option.

It would be interesting to see what kind of paint thickness the main manufacturers aim for, if they drop .353 boolits, paint and size at 355 or if they go smaller/bigger out of the mold.

plamenti
02-17-2012, 01:10 PM
Before paint - .356 - .357. I'm casting with Lee molds.

ScorpioMk
02-17-2012, 01:25 PM
How does that work then, you cast a .356 boolit, paint and then size down to smaller than cast? Is the paint that hard that it squeezes the boolit down more than shave the paint off? Would be interested in seeing before/after pics of sizing.

plamenti
02-17-2012, 01:30 PM
From today - I'm very happy with my results. I made .356 (Lee 125 Grain 2 Ogive Radius) and .40 (Lee 175 Grain Truncated Cone) and tried some improvements. I'm still learning, but was satisfied.
I'm using my mobile phone for a camera and the quality of the pics is not good, but it's enough to get an idea...
The results:
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389738.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389736.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389737.jpg?r=0

The improvements:
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389717.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389718.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389731.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389729.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389714.jpg?r=0

plamenti
02-17-2012, 01:43 PM
...
Is the paint that hard that it squeezes the boolit down more than shave the paint off? Would be interested in seeing before/after pics of sizing.
Yes, that's probably so.


...
Would be interested in seeing before/after pics of sizing.
OK, but probably after three or four days - I'll work and will be out. Maybe I will make short video about sizing if you want, NP.

wrinkles
02-17-2012, 01:44 PM
I really need t to try this. :)

plamenti
02-17-2012, 01:57 PM
How does that work then, you cast a .356 boolit, paint and then size down to smaller than cast? Is the paint that hard that it squeezes the boolit down more than shave the paint off? Would be interested in seeing before/after pics of sizing.
Ops, I have 2 pics but they are very poor quality:

http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389742.jpg
http://media.snimka.bg/s1/0073/026389743.jpg

zxcvbob
02-17-2012, 02:14 PM
Harbor Freight has powder-coat paint for about $5 per pound, in several colors. (red, yellow, black, white) I don't know if they sell a gun to apply it.

ETA: http://www.harborfreight.com/10-30-psi-powder-coating-system-94244.html

wrinkles
02-17-2012, 03:15 PM
They do, I've been thinking of getting one. They sell some in kits, gun, paint, and tubing.

old_haidouk
02-17-2012, 03:47 PM
palmenti, that's a good set up. But I am to lazy to handle every bullet like that. I trie d coating them and hand tumbling in a box but they still stick to each other.

FLDad
02-19-2012, 12:28 AM
Would it make sense to size the boolits a few thou under before powder coating to reduce the amount of final sizing needed? Without getting carried away with custom dies, maybe sizing a 230 grain .45 down to .451 instead of .452 before coating would be a good idea. Just thinking out loud here -- just wondering about scraping paint off if sizing more than a couple of thousandths. Or am I worrying about nothing?

leftiye
02-19-2012, 06:29 AM
Good question. I wonder if the paint would adhere well to a sized (slick) boolit. I also wonder if undersized boolits painted up to size would show problems holding the rifling.

Four Fingers of Death
02-19-2012, 07:10 AM
The only problem I suppose with sizing first is that you will have to use some sort of lube and tha will have to be completely removed before the coating is applied or it won't stick. My mate who coats his bullets described the coating, but I never thought to ask him about the sizing.

I think unless you were going to get into it in a big way, it would be more trouble than it is worth.

ScorpioMk
02-20-2012, 09:58 AM
Good question. I wonder if the paint would adhere well to a sized (slick) boolit. I also wonder if undersized boolits painted up to size would show problems holding the rifling.

Thats an interesting thought there too about having trouble holding the rifling. If plamenti is having success sizing a painted boolit down to a smaller than dropped size it doesnt seem like you would have to size before paint, just after.

Another question, are most painted boolits sold .355 like copper or are they sold larger like most people need out of boolits?