high speed

[82nd airborne]

I occasionally film for a local based hunting show called struttinbucks. www.struttinbucks.com
anywho, they just bought a high speed camera, so i am trying to get the time of the owner so we can film a few cast boolits exiting the muzzle in ultra slow mo, so i can better see what is happening upon exit. if there is enough intrest i will see what i can do to get it posted on here.

[AZ-Stew]

Great idea! Maybe some of the questions regarding bullet lube and gas checks can be answered.

Regards,

Stew

[257 Shooter]

That would be great. Rile and Pistol boolits please.

[Echo]

Way to go! Looking forward to it...

[wiljen]

By all means. I'd love to have the videos to post on castpics.

[geargnasher]

YES! I think either pistol or rifle with plain-based boolits and conventional lube would be just the ticket and put a lot of nagging questions to rest.

I'll volunteer some lubed boolits for the test if I have any suitable, I'd love to compare "hard" and "soft" lubes and velocities, see what happens upon muzzle exit. Also, a damaged-base test vs. perfect base would be useful, to see if the boolit tips upon exit with an uneven pressure blast. And another thing that would show up with just about anything where obturation didn't quite occur is how much lube/gas blows out before the boolit exits.

Gear

[SCIBUL]

Yes geargnasher !
It's just what I was thinking about §

[82nd airborne]

gear, that was one of my main goals in trying this. i plan on trying different lubes, alloys, quenching methods, gc vs no gc, and effects on the boolit or lack therof with a muzzle break/ sound suppressor. ill be on it as soon as the camera owner gets a chance to help me out.

[lwknight]

On the super slo-no videos that I have seen , the fire and smoke come out before the bullets do. Now I would really like to know if our cast , properly fitted and lubed boolits actually seal the bore and lock in the gasses.
I know that with lead boolits my 9mm shoots harder and faster with less powder than what is does with the J bullets.
I always wondered if it was bore friction or gas sealing that was the main contributer.

[HeavyMetal]

geargnasher:
An article was done years ago on deformed boolit shooting.

Written by Wayne Blackwelland titled: How Defects in Cast Bullets Affect Accuracy.

It is an intersting read and covers three boolits: the RCBS 38 150 SWC which has always been my go to boolit for the 357, the Lyman 429421 and the Lachmiller 311-175-FN.

Pistol groups were fired at 25 yards 30-30 were fired at 100.

I don't know when the article was originally printed but I found it in: The Art of Bullet Casting first issue reprints from Handloader& Rifle magazines 1966 to 1981.

I think you can get all four issues of this on DVD, I have one, but I'm not sure. Perhaps someone on the board might have a spare copy to sell or loan??

[44man]

That sounds great and maybe you can get movies of the hammers on revolvers too and what they do at firing.

[Bill*]

I'll be watching this thread for sure!

[82nd airborne]

Well, so far we havent had a lot of success. we have caught mainly blurrs, nothing anywhere near good enough to provide solid evidence. the equipment is new, so hopefully with practice we can get some good footage and stills. Ill keep on it, i really want this project to work, im anxious to get some results.

[NSP64]

Casio now makes a pocket 10 megapixel camera that shoots video in slow mo (1000 frames per second) and only $269.00 I may have to get one. EX-FH100

[Freischütz]

What's the camera's frame rate? I looked at Kurzzeit and had the impression that at least 250,000 frames/second was necessary to really study what happened at the muzzle.

[82nd airborne]

1500 i believe, but i know nothing about cameras, ill try to find out from the camera guys, im going to try stills on some of my wifes equipment next

[NSP64]

there is video on youtube @ 1,000,000 Frames Per Second Now that is slow. Also some @ 5000 FPS and the bullet is a blur.

I found some video of pistol being fired @ 1000FPS and it was a blur.

[82nd airborne]

Wow much harder than I thought. So far all we have managed to capture is a blurr, surrounded by a lighter blurr. I guess I need to find a camera capable of more frames per second. Im stuck in the challenge now, due to my stubborness. Any suggestions?

[JIMinPHX]

The guys at Mythbusters managed to photograph bullets, so the equipment to do it is out there & available. Unfortunately, I don't know what equipment it is.

If I were you, I'd start with slow moving calibers, like .45ACP & see what you can get with the equipment that you have. Then I'd start looking around to rent a faster camera.

I wonder if B&H rent's high speed cameras? They used to rent out some pretty high end stuff when I lived back east. Even if they don't have it, they might know does. The guys there pride themselves on product knowledge. Just don't call them on a Saturday. They absolutely, positively, refuse to do anything for anyone on a Saturday.

[Freischütz]

Check kurzzeit.com They have systems available.

[82nd airborne]

HOLY COW thats expensive!. I hate to but i may have to wait till the show rents a camera for another project!

[redneckdan]

I'd be interested to see a paper patched bullet exit the muzzle. I'm willing to load test rounds if needed.

[82nd airborne]

If i can find a camera to rent thats not so expensive id be glad to oblidge. the show is planning on renting one sometime in the near future to do a slow mo of a grim reaper broadhead deploying, so hopefully i can get them to help me out for a couple hours.

[AZ-Stew]

I wonder if B&H rent's high speed cameras? They used to rent out some pretty high end stuff when I lived back east. Even if they don't have it, they might know does. The guys there pride themselves on product knowledge. Just don't call them on a Saturday. They absolutely, positively, refuse to do anything for anyone on a Saturday.

The company is run by Orthodox Jews. I've been doing business with them for well over 35 years. Highly reputable outfit, and excellent prices. I have an order on the way from them right now. The issue regarding Saturdays is that that's their Sabbath and they take it seriously. God said, "Keep it Holy", so they don't work.

Regards,

Stew

[starbits]

Wow much harder than I thought. So far all we have managed to capture is a blurr, surrounded by a lighter blurr. I guess I need to find a camera capable of more frames per second. Im stuck in the challenge now, due to my stubborness. Any suggestions?

If you have a bullet moving 1000f/s it will move 12 inches (304.8mm) in 1/1000 of a second.

1500 frames per second it moves 8 inches (203.2mm)
5000 frames per second it moves 2.4 inches (60.96mm)
96,000 frames per second it moves 1/8 inch (3.175mm)
250,000 frames per second it moves 0.048 inches (1.219mm)
1,000,000 frames per second it moves 0.012 inches (0.305mm)

I would suspect that even at 100,000 frames per second you will still get blurring.

Another possibility is flickering the light source. If your camera is 1500 frames per second and you spin a disk in front of your light source with a slot cut in it at 1500 rps the slot will appear once per frame. If the slot is 10% of the disk it will light the bullet for 1/15,000 of a second. At 1% it would be 1/150,000. That might get you a good image. The problems with this are is there enough light to actually get an image. Have fun!

Starbits

PS that is 1500 disk revolutions per second not per minute, ie 90,000rpm

[AZ-Stew]

PS that is 1500 disk revolutions per second not per minute, ie 90,000rpm

Put more slots in the disk. Make it 10 slots and you only need to turn it 9,000 RPM. As you said, though, you'll need a REALLY good light source.

Regards,

Stew

[TCLouis]

One can be stubborn til the cows come home, BUT

I think you will find 1000fps will not come close, 5,000 is kinda getting there and whatever you (he) can afford above that will be what is needed.

That said, I am not sure what one would do with that level of speed/quality in a "normal" shooting/hunting show.

What does it cost to rent one of that speed.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
We know gases are pushed out ahead of the bullet, and there is also gas blow by the bullet with j-bullets. It was 1st recorded by sound when the military & others were trying to develop suppressors/silencers, post WW1.
I have also seen this on video/film with j-bullets, both rifle & pistol.
So IMHO we are always going to get blow by gases .