Hot lead and wrinkled noses, what gives?

[rvpilot76]

I've tried temps all the way to 1000*, but I'm still getting wrinkled noses on both my Fatter 30 and 45 Caliber Ranch Dog 350 RF 6-hole molds. The molds are plenty hot, and both molds have been thoroughly cleaned and degreased with lighter fluid. I'll take my infrared temp measuring gun home tonight and get a temp on the molds, but I have a sneaking suspicion that something else is the cause. Any ideas? Thanks for your help, fellas.

Kevin

[mooman76]

Sounds to me like uneven temp. Those 6 bangers take awhile to get hot and you have to keep moving to keep them there!

[lovedogs]

Just a few guesses... if your alloy and mould are really correct you might ask the following:
What is the alloy? Is it pure or contaminated with something else?
Are mould cavities smoked? How thick?
Are you using a Drop Out spray? Mould companies advise against them.

I'd suspect mould temp though. Six cav's would take some heating up. You'd never need temps up to 1000 degrees. The hottest I ever use is about 750 to near 800.

[Joey]

If the bullit is crinkled its too hot, if its frosted its too cool. For the 6 cavity molds I use Lee because they are aluminium and heat up quicker and more evenly. With the Lee smelter I set it for 700 and refill the pot at the half way point, let it set for 10 min. for the temp. to get back up and continue pouring.

[44man]

Joey, thats backwards! Too cold will make wrinkled boolits and too hot will frost them. Frosted is good and no reason for rejection.
It sound like the mould is too cold and not pre-heated enough, then casting pace is too slow to maintain the heat. Lead can be extremely hot and not help if anyone casts like a friend of mine does, he fumbles long enough for the blocks to get cold. I show him 1000 times and he is just all thumbs. I'm not saying that RVpilot is that way so don't holler at me.

[utk]

If the bullit is crinkled its too hot, if its frosted its too cool.

Isn't it the other way around? Too low temp (or other causes) can give you wrinkled boolits. A high temp can give you frosted boolits (many casters like them frosted, it's not a bad sign in itself).

[David R]

MAYBE if you ditch the lighter fluid and use a quick evaporation cleaner like carb cleaner or an alcohol based parts cleaner your wrinkles will go away.

I use Wellworth Shop Kleen or Castle shop solv. Both evaporate completly. Lighter fluid clould be leaving a resadue.

David I can't speel R.

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho the fire,

I sell lots of LEE Six cavity custom molds of the Big Lube(tm) design. From experience I've found that a little soap and water with a toothbrush does a good job of cleaning up the mold cavities. That, followed by a hot water rinse, will do the trick. Then, I never use the spray on mold release products. I smoke the cavities with wood kitchen matches.

Once a mold is runnin' good I usually don't ever need to smoke it again. I've been usin' some of them for years without need to re-smoke the cavities.

Follow the manufacturers instructions included with the mold for lubing the allignment points and hinges. Don't let any of the lube migrate into the cavities or you will have to start all over again with cleaning and smoking.

One thing many pards do is to try to guess the metal temperature. This won't work consistantly enough for predictable results. Get a good thermometer if you don't already have one.

Most molds are made to perform with something like a 20:1 alloy. Do you know what your alloy is? If not, get some 20:1 alloy and cast some good bullets with it. These can be used to compare to whenever you mix up a new batch of metal.

I've found that usually wrinkled noses come from contamination in the mold cavities and from casting with too cool a mold temperature. When you next start casting, run your metal at 775 degrees and throw back the first ten pours. Then, evaluate your bullets. Cast 'em fast but not so fast that you smear the sprue cut.

Good luck,

DD-DLoS

[Joey]

Yes, you all are right , I sure did get it backwards.

[44man]

Dick is right, dish soap, hot water and a brush works best. The speed is right when you get a clean cut on the sprue. Don't cut with one bang, but tap a bunch of little taps. A few boolits with some little holes in the center from cutting too soon is OK as long as you are not smearing lead onto the plate or mould top.
The casting game is a lot easier then beginners think, don't get anal over it. All it takes is the basics.

[GooseGestapo]

Dick and 44man are sooo right.

I'm a new member, but long time caster. I'm on my 3rd Lee 6-cavity 148gr .358 TL-WC mould. Second 158gr SWC .358"TL.

I think I'm getting about a million bullets before I can't recondition the moulds back to making good bullets. At least not for $35.00 worth of effort for a new mould.

RV-pilot
Sounds like You've got some residue from the solvents.

I've found that with a new mould, it takes getting it REAL hot the first session, and then recleaning and re-sooting, to get really good bullets.

FWIW, I use an over-sized butane cigarette lighter to "soot" my moulds as I can get a more even coating than with a wood match.

Just don't over do the soot. I tried a carbide sight blackening lamp once. Almost melted the mould, and got SO MUCH soot, that it changed the dimensions of the bullet.
Had to reclean, and start over again.

What "RV" do you have?

A former student of mine had a RV-6A that he let me use to commute to another airport when I was working on my MEII. He and his partner sold it and built an RV-8.
They're great little a/c.

(BTW; that ain't no "RV" you're standing in front of! My guess is an AeroCommander, or maybe a WestWind.
Your's too ???)

[44man]

One time while in a hurry to get to the line, I blackened my front sight with the carbide lamp. Forgot about the plastic insert and melted it. Had to buy a new sight. I made a new one with an undercut for silhouette.
Them things do get hot!

[rvpilot76]

Dick and 44man are sooo right.

I'm a new member, but long time caster. I'm on my 3rd Lee 6-cavity 148gr .358 TL-WC mould. Second 158gr SWC .358"TL.

I think I'm getting about a million bullets before I can't recondition the moulds back to making good bullets. At least not for $35.00 worth of effort for a new mould.

RV-pilot
Sounds like You've got some residue from the solvents.

I've found that with a new mould, it takes getting it REAL hot the first session, and then recleaning and re-sooting, to get really good bullets.

FWIW, I use an over-sized butane cigarette lighter to "soot" my moulds as I can get a more even coating than with a wood match.

Just don't over do the soot. I tried a carbide sight blackening lamp once. Almost melted the mould, and got SO MUCH soot, that it changed the dimensions of the bullet.
Had to reclean, and start over again.

What "RV" do you have?

I fly with a friend who has an RV6A with a 4.3 Chevy V6 in it. Lots of fun!

A former student of mine had a RV-6A that he let me use to commute to another airport when I was working on my MEII. He and his partner sold it and built an RV-8.
They're great little a/c.

(BTW; that ain't no "RV" you're standing in front of! My guess is an AeroCommander, or maybe a WestWind.

You are correct sir; it is an Aero Commander 690A. I am just one of her three mechanics.
Your's too ???)

Nope, not mine. Just wish it was.

Kevin

[Flintlockrecord]

"both molds have been thoroughly cleaned and degreased with lighter fluid."

The lighter fluid is the problem. Last time I cast I thought I would use some lighter fluid to clean the mold and all I got was wrinkled bullets. Took a good scrubbing with a toothbrush and soap to get rid of it and then no problems.

Flintlockrecord

[rvpilot76]

OK. Scrubbed the bejesus out of both molds and got the pot to 800*. I have to ladle the metal into the mold because the pot just sprays lead everywhere. I can't get a consistant sprue with the Lee, and it seems like ladling just isn't working fast enough to keep the mold hot. I'm having to pour 3 boolits at a time in the Lee 6-holer with the 350 grain boolits because I run out of metal if I cast more than 4 at a time. I haven't tried the Fatter 30 mold yet. I am pretty frustrated that I am still getting wrinkled noses. How do you guys keep the lead from splashing everywhere when using your bottom pour? Man, I thought this was going to be fun and easy.

Frustrated,

Kevin

[utk]

What do you mean by "sprays lead everywhere"? What bottom-pour pot are you using?
My LEE 20lb pot works just fine, an even stream of lead. And the flow rate is adjustable. Of course, some lead will occasionally overflow the sprue plate but one learns quickly to synchronize the movements of the mold with the filling.
I only have two and four-holers, though.

Urban

[rvpilot76]

What I mean by "sprays lead everywhere" is that it fills the cavity and then shoots up out of that sucker like old faithful! I have some vise-grip pliers holding down the metering rod so that it doesn't leak, which is the only control I have as the stupid "screw" that Lee uses in that little groove on the metering rod stripped out. Looks like I need to move him down a little and limit the rods upward movement; thereby controlling the flow. Thanks for reminding me about that! Oh, and I just got back from casting. Looks like I got the hang of it, finally. Gotta wait 'till the bullets get frosty and the sprue plate warms up before they start casting good. Temperature is right at 725-750. Production is really gonna cook once I figure out that flow control; then I'll be cookin' with gas! Thanks again for everyone's help. I have to see tomorrow if the Fatter 30 will follow suit!

Best regards and good casting,

Kevin