Anyone heard, or believe this?

[crabo]

I was talking to a good friend, who is a good BPC silhouette shooter, and was telling him that I was really enjoying shooting my shotgun again. I'm getting ready for dove season and thinking about sporting clays again.

He told me that shooting my shotgun was going to mess up my lever silhouette game because shooting the shotgun is so different from the way I shoot my my rifle.

He is experienced and knowledgeable enough that I don't discount anything he has to say.

Anyone have any thoughts? My peronal feelings are that I am not going to exclude one to save the other, but enjoy it all. That's one reason I miss competing in the Sportsman Team Challenge so much.

[Blammer]

actually I've found the reverse to be true, shooting a rifle has really screwed up my shotgun shooting.

With a shotgun you "pull" the trigger or 'yank' it; a rifle you "squeeze" and apply constant pressure. The two different techniques properly applied to each work well, using one with the other will result in poor hits.

[merlin101]

I have a Thompson Contender and picked up a .45-.410 barrel for in the fall a few years ago. Well I took it out shooting some clay pigeon's and had a ball! I did better with that than I did with my 1100 in 20ga. Come deer season I was so much faster getting on target. So in short I say as long as your familiar with both fire arms GO FER IT

[Echo]

I've got to agree, somewhat, with M101 -but I believe it takes more than just being 'familiar' with the different arms. Shotgun trigger grab versus metallic cartridge squeeze - requires a TON of practice with both forms, to be able to excel with both.

IMO...

[BarryinIN]

I used to shoot NRA Highpower Rifle, then quit, then started up again, then had to quit again. Both times when I stopped Highpower, I tried Trap after getting bored. Nothing serious- Just a weekly club shoot for a few months.
I did fair at Trap the first time, but not the second time around.

The difference, I think, was that I was a better rifle shooter when I made the second Trap attempt. I took Highpower more serious, moved up two classification slots, and was pretty happy with where I was. The same things that helped me in Highpower made me a poorer Trap shooter.
In Trap, you point the gun and sort of "snap" the trigger. Trying to get a good hold on target and a smooth trigger press as in rifle shooting is not the way to best Trap scores.

After some thought, I decided that you can't be good at both rifle and Trap without "shifting gears" when changing from one to the other. It seemed to me that it was easier for a good Trap shooter to switch over than a good rifleman, but that may not be true.

I also think the differences are more evident if one is pretty good at one discipline or the other. I think one could get fairly decent at both without much effort to seperate them, but to get really good at one they would have to either "shut out" the other discipline or just let it go. I'm sure there are those who are masters at both, but I also think they are pretty uncommon.

I decided I'd rather be a fair rifle shooter and a poor shotgunner than the opposite, so quit Trap.
Then I let my rifle skills go to pot!

[TCLouis]

Unlike most folks I grew up shooting shotgun and I know it has made it more difficult to shoot a rifle.

[jmsj]

I grew up shooting more shotguns than rifles. I have found that all that shotgun shooting taught me to get my gun up faster and to lead moving game and follow through. So I think they can be complimentary to each other.

[S.R.Custom]

actually I've found the reverse to be true, shooting a rifle has really screwed up my shotgun shooting.

Ditto here. While I'm decent with single projectile weaponry, I'm useless with a shotgun. If it doesn't shoot to point of aim, I'm lost.

[geargnasher]

I, too, have found that Sporting Clays wreaks havoc on other shooting sports, but have to say it has NOTHING to do with how one handles the trigger.

The problem with shotgunning is that you must focus on the TARGET and depend upon gun mount consistency and absolute correct gun fit to line up the bore. With handgun, especially in competition, if you're focusing on the target, you're missing. You'd better be looking at the target in the background as a blur, and the FRONT SIGHT should be in sharp focus. With rifle, same thing with open or peep sights, with a scope it doesn't matter although you're probably focused on the target with your mind, just as in shotgunning.

It is a royal pain to switch back and forth, especially if speed and accuracy are paramount, and I don't know very many people who can switch their minds well with the target/sight focus habit.

Want to REALLY screw yourself up? Go shoot three-gun competition once with moving targets! That forces you to reevaluate your entire approach to shooting.

Gear

[archmaker]

Speaking from my own experience, I found that shooting IHMSA for years and shooting that style for decades is making it hard for me to be competive in IDPA.

Even with close shots I still want the slights to line and up and I feel that I am rushing my shoots, yet I score the lowest out of everybody at the two matches I have been to so far. Too much time.

Conversely, my friends at the time that shoot IPSC a lot did not do well on the long ranges that I felt comfortable.

[Rocky Raab]

I spent my teen years shooting a lot of competition trap as well as rifles and handguns. But I'm positive that to this day, my "shotgun trigger finger" affects my metallic-case shooting adversely.

With a shotgun, my finger fires when the gun/target picture looks right - and it fires right NOW. If I'm trying too hard with a handgun, I still tend to jerk the trigger when the sights look right for an instant. And miss EVERY time.

[Rockydog]

Looks like I'll disagree with most. Shooting is shooting to me. Muscle strength, cheek weld etc are the same. Trigger pull always varies from gun to gun, even rifle to rifle. After a shot or two I'm comfortable with whatever I shoot. I think trap shooting has helped my rifle shooting when I have to shoot at running game. Swing through the target, pull the trigger, keep swinging, etc. Note "have to" I don't normally shot at running game that hasn't been wounded etc. RD

[fecmech]

I'm in the "rifle screws up the shotgun" camp. I shoot sporting every week and during the summer months when I am shooting a lot of lever silhouette and Hunters Pistol my sporting scores suffer a little bit. I think the reason is in both rifle and pistol you concentrate on the sight alignment and in sporting you need to look at the bird and not the bead. As soon as you concentrate on the bead with a shotgun you've got a miss coming up! The good thing is that neither my retirement check or SS check depends on my silhouette or sporting clays scores, they come regardless of how well I shoot!

[9.3X62AL]

I lean heavily toward Rocky Raab's belief. I also shot A LOT of shotgun in my teen years, and continue with less frequency into the present time. It takes a conscious "gear-shifting" mentally between the firearms types, for sure. I do enjoy them all, though.

[Echo]

A big +1 for fecmech!

And I believe it depends on the level of competition, or the level of competence desired. I have heard of folks who were Distinguished metallic AND the equivalent (Distinguished? I don't know if there is such an award) shotshell, but have never met one, and can't see how it would be possible, unless one were to spend ALL their waking hours practicing, and were REALLY able to shift gears in their head, AND on their spinal cord. I decided 'way back that I didn't want to try to compete in shotgun sports - I was sure it would screw up my trigger pull. I can bust 10-15 birds from a trap, but that's not competitive...

In other words, I believe one can become 'OK' with all types - but to be REALLY competitive ain't gonna happen without extreme measures.

IMHO...

[Recluse]

Looks like I'll disagree with most. Shooting is shooting to me. Muscle strength, cheek weld etc are the same. Trigger pull always varies from gun to gun, even rifle to rifle. After a shot or two I'm comfortable with whatever I shoot. I think trap shooting has helped my rifle shooting when I have to shoot at running game. Swing through the target, pull the trigger, keep swinging, etc. Note "have to" I don't normally shot at running game that hasn't been wounded etc. RD

Agree completely.

It would be like saying, "My flying airplanes has really messed up my driving of cars, and then when I get in the boat, I'm totally lost."

Each vehicle has its own set of rules for operating it safely and to get maximum performance. Guns are no different.

The only part of your body that knows the difference between a rifle, shotgun and handgun is your brain. Control that, and you're good to go.

:coffee:

[2ndAmendmentNut]

If shooting a shotgun causes you to develop a flinch that will effect all forms of shooting regardless of the firearm. When I shoot my Beretta 391 12ga a lot prior to bird seasons I have all ways noticed my real world hunting improves with a rifle because my mount up becomes much quicker thus giving me more time to aim.

As others have noted shooting a shotgun is very different then shooting a rifle, so practice with both, and have fun.

[crabo]

I already had my own opinion about this when I posted, but I wanted to see what you guys thought.

I believe that I am capable of shooting both well as long as I remember which gun I am shooting. I also believe that if you put all your time into one, you will progress faster than splitting your time between two disciplines.

Shooting is not only physical, but it is a huge mental game as well. You start forgetting your basics and you will tank, no matter what game and gun.

One thing I learned a long time ago, was that I don't have the money to run with the serious sporting clay crowd. Even though I have a couple of nice shotguns, and can afford some shells, they often shoot my month's, or months', budget in one weekend.

I know I enjoy shooting all my guns and competition gives you real world data on how well you are shooting that day.

[fecmech]

Agree completely.



The only part of your body that knows the difference between a rifle, shotgun and handgun is your brain. Control that, and you're good to go.

:coffee:

Much easier said than done, although I agree with the premise. Sometimes it's the simple concepts that are the most difficult to master.

[44man]

Looks like I'll disagree with most. Shooting is shooting to me. Muscle strength, cheek weld etc are the same. Trigger pull always varies from gun to gun, even rifle to rifle. After a shot or two I'm comfortable with whatever I shoot. I think trap shooting has helped my rifle shooting when I have to shoot at running game. Swing through the target, pull the trigger, keep swinging, etc. Note "have to" I don't normally shot at running game that hasn't been wounded etc. RD
I have to agree with this point of view. When I was young I was a whiz with a shotgun and the best fit for me was an Ithaca 37. I would triple on a covey of quail and one time I tripled on grouse. I might miss one pheasant a season.
The neighbors would get together and shoot clays from a trap in the field. There would be 5 of them and they would all miss but I would pick up the clay before it hit the ground---NO MORE!
I still shot chucks to 600 yards and shot revolvers to 400 for fun. I never had a problem dropping running deer with a flintlock or slug gun in Ohio and still don't.
But now I can't hit a thing with a shotgun but I can't blame other shooting. It is because I am RUSTY with a shotgun, there is nothing to hunt here with them and I have not done more then play with them for the last 25 years when a friend brings his kids to shoot clays. I miss most and never dust one all the way. It is just gone for me. [smilie=l:
All it takes is to practice and have the time and money to stay sharp. One gun will never affect how you shoot another. What will affect you is if you shoot one for a long time, then get rusty with the other. I just can't blame my handgun or rifle shooting for my poor shotgun shooting. The shotgun is the hardest to keep. If I take a year and shoot a shotgun every day until I get back, I assure you it will not change me if I pick up a rifle or revolver next year.
I can pick up a compound bow after a year and even though weak from not shooting, I will put the first shot in the bull but will give out quick. If I take the stick bow, I will never reach full draw and can't hit the big bale at 10 yards. If I shoot the stick bow until I am good, it will not affect my compound shooting other then to make me stronger.
Stop thinking, if you want to shoot a shotgun, go do it. It will not hurt your other shooting. Shoot everything all the time and you will be good with anything and everything. I am never going to tell anyone to not shoot a gun or bow of any kind. Throw spears if you want to! :bigsmyl2:

[Rocky Raab]

It works both ways, guys. It is a function of muscle memory. You do one thing enough times and that's the way you will do it darn near forever. Start with a rifle and you cannot shoot a shotgun well. Start with a shotgun and you will not be able to shoot a rifle or handgun without pulling the thing off center.

That's just the way it is.

You CAN overcome it. Kinda. Sorta. For a while. Maybe. On odd-numbered St Michelmas Days, In leap years.

[S.R.Custom]

If that's true --and I have no reason to belive it's not-- I'm glad I learned and got good with the rifle first. If I miss a duck, I'll get over it in a minute and a half. Miss that elk, on the other hand, and it's beans and rice all winter...

[Bass Ackward]

We never spent much time thinking on it. We just called it out of practice.

And I think that there is a certain amount of "focus" to it as well. Based upon your own strengths and weaknesses. I have a hard time concentrating long term with paper as an example. Regardless of how i try to "command" my focus, it wanes. Not so with anything else. So it would depend on usage what my answer might be.

I can shoot anything else with no loss of concentration. But maybe another way to look at it is that I never worked enough to compete at anything, so I suck at everything anyway. Based upon that assessment, I make the transition fairly seamlessly.

My biggest transition is handguning from anything shotgun, rifle, fishing, work. Set that down, and it's a long road back.

[Rocky Raab]

There ya go! Just be a mediocre shot to begin with and you'll never know the difference! LOL!

Ya made my day there, BA. Grinnin' here.

[Harter66]

I think good triggers make the biggest difference in transition from shotguns to rifles and back . My love of hunting is waterfowl , dove season makes a great wamr up. This year I have deer tags so I go to the range twice a month with my Savage 110 and its clean 4lb trigger and once to break some clays with the BPS. That gets me through dove ,sage hen ,all the chucker hunting I want to do,deer season and back to ducks & geese. I use a method of trigger control thais all mine though as I am cross dominate and fine motor control is not the best asset of my left hand with which I run the triggers. Running 5 guns every year with triggers running all at 3-5# has made a huge difference in my change over times. That and knowing on any given drive off the mountain back to "deer" camp I could be over run by chucker or sage hens have made me work a little harder so there is less difference between guns.

[tonyjones]

Here's my take based upon my experiences. I grew up hunting with a shotgun (dove, guail, ducks and geese) and bullseye shooting in the garage or back yard with an air rifle (my dad built a back stop). At nine I started shooting small bore position and service rifle at about fourteen. This was at a DCM affiliated club my dad belonged to. We had Remington 513T's, 1911's, M1 Garands, targets, cleaning supplies and all of the GI ammo (the .22 RF was Remington or Winchester Target) we could shoot. I also started shooting trap and skeet (with hand loads) in my teens.
My current sporting clays and skeet gun is a Perazzi MX12. The trigger fires the lower barrel at 3-1/2 pounds and 3-3/4 pounds pressure makes the upper barrel go boom; both without take-up. I've never noticed whether over travel exists. 12 gage recoil does that to you.
All of my hunting rifles have triggers tuned to 2 to 2-1/2 pounds. The exception is my .416 Rigby. That trigger is set at 3-1/2 pounds. My LV and HV bench guns both have two ounce triggers.
When going from shotgun to rifle I have to make a mental adjustment for the trigger. This is especially true with the bench guns. With the bench guns, once my equipment (front rest, rear bag and rifle) is set up I touch only the trigger when firing. I also touch the rifle to return it to battery. My time is spent concentrating on wind, mirage and the time remaining to get off 5 record shots. When shooting my hunting rifles from the bench the approach is the same but there are differences: gun weight, trigger pull weight, narrow round fore end vs wide flat fore end. Also, I do not recommend shooting a 9.3x62, .375 H&H or .416 Rigby free recoil. For what it's worth, I do not recommed shooting a .600 or .700 Nitro Express; PERIOD!!! I wuss out some where below .458 Lott recoil levels.
Remember, if you want to be successful, you aim a rifle (or hand gun) and you swing a shotgun. Transitioning from rifle to shotgun requires a different set of mental adjustments. When wing shooting, other than safe gun handling, I do not think about the equipment; at all. I shoot live birds, sporting clays and skeet with the gun down until the targets flight is visible from my shooting position. Once I note the targets flight path I begin my gun mount. The muzzle comes up and moves forward at the same time. I NEVER want my muzzle behind the target. Depending on distance and angle I hold front edge of the target or 2" to 6" apparent lead (it appears 2" to 6" at the muzzle) and maintain until the target comes into the kill zone (the target comes into sharper focus and appears to slow down). At this point I pull further ahead while breaking the shot. This is how 90% of the NSCA pros do it. I know because I've taken lessons from Dan Carlisle.
Bottom line? I do not think it's more difficult going from shotgun to rifle or the other way around. It's just different; really, really different.
All the best,
Tony